Class Warfare Survey (3 Questions)

[H2O Man]

“ .... The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'.....”
– Steppenwolf; “Monster”






I tend to talk to a fairly wide variety of people. That includes not only family, friends, and neighbors, but a large group of folks that I know casually from social events. As a result, I have an opportunity to speak with people about their beliefs on the problems that the United States faces. I enjoy the opportunity to listen to people's thoughts and concerns about the economy and politics.

In doing so, I've found that my general response of, “I believe that that the very wealthy class has sold this country out. They are only concerned with their bank statements, not the average citizen. They own most politicians. And those politicians have broken the public's trust,” gets people's attention. More, most people agree with this. I've yet to have anyone disagree.

While a number of Americans are simply uninformed about economic, social, and political issues, it is my impression that far more are victims of misinformation and disinformation. The 2012 election season provides the Democratic Left with another opportunity to conduct “voter education and registration.” These two are closely related; in fact, either one without the other is of relatively little value.

Thus, my questions. As always, there is no “wrong” answer. I'm looking for people's opinions, and hoping that there may actually be a range of opinion and reasoning. Thank you in advance for your participation.


{1} Do you believe that presenting issues such as the Bush tax breaks, the Wall Street bail-outs, the wars in the Middle East, and the growing domestic budget problems should be framed as “class warfare” in the upcoming campaign season?

{2} Do you believe that identifying the dynamics of “class warfare” will help or hurt Democrats running for the House or Senate? Why?

{3} Would framing current events as “class warfare” help or hurt President Obama in his re-election campaign?

[AlabamaLibrul]

1. Swiping a spot for further development n/t

[peace frog]

2. The basic premise is sound, however

I suggest using "anti-worker" or some other phrasing that clearly separates the untouchable corporate masters from the little guy. "Class warfare" sounds like top-down phrasing whereas what we need is bottom-up verbiage, something that speaks to everyone in America who is not one of our corporate overlords.

[leftstreet]

3. Yes it should be framed that way, but it may be too late to help the Democrats

That ship sailed when they started embracing the Reagan Repubs and Religious Rightz, etc. and NAFTA'ed their way to Wall Street bailouts. Obama was the last chance to turn things around, but...

They are now the party of Middle Classiness and it'll be hard to swing populist

[blondeatlast]

4. 1)Politically, it's a bad idea, but perhaps finding some new nomenclature is called for.

2) I think it will help in the House and Senate campaigns.

3) Referring again to number 1, a different nomenclature would HELP--but the phrase "class warfare" is toxic and frought with all kinds of dangers.

[socialist_n_TN]

5. For marketing purposes..........

I wouldn't frame it in exactly those terms and I'm pretty much a Marxist. I WOULD however frame it as a "War by the wealthy and powerful and their syncophants in the Republican Party on the rest of us." Not much difference you say? True, but it DOES get away from the old Marxist bugaboo that still frightens the politically unaware.

Yes, I know that they'll squeal "Class Warfare!" just as soon as they hear the above. That's OK cause THEN you bring out the old Warren Buffett chestnut about it BEING class warfare and HIS CLASS IS WINNING!

You've got to lead the people, you can't beat them over the head with it right away. This would be a way to LEAD the politically naive.

[H2O Man]

6. I see the "unrecommended" folks

are here today. While I would prefer to think that they just don't like me, it is probably equally accurate to say that this is a form of expressing one's opinion. Feel free to post, though!

[damntexdem]

7. It's not so important whether we frame it as "class warfare."

What's important is to realize that we having been losing the class war for the past 30 years, and now it's the homeland that is being occupied.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

8. Shhhhush! Like all the other wars going on, we are just supposed to pay for them

not talk about them.

[leveymg]

9. The "class warfare" mantra is leftover from the Cold War - a dead vestige of McCarthyism

But, it still terrifies Center-Right Democrats. All the GOP has to do is dust it off and shake it, like a skull rattle, and Obama along with the DLC Democrats run screaming away from any progressive ideas in the room.

I think it's an inside-the-beltway thing at this point. The term "class warfare" neither helps nor hurts; out there in the Great Flyover, people know they're losing the war, getting screwed by the rich and powerful, they have few real allies in either party, and the pain and demands for concessions and give-backs from above are only going to get worse.

[leveymg]

10. Duplicate - self-delete

technical glitch

[blindpig]

11. Ain't none of that gonna happen.

The direction of the Democratic Party is quite clear, there will be no such talk and if there is it will be purely political theater and forgotten 5 minutes after the election. Know them by their acts.

You are grasping for something which hasn't existed for 50 years, and even then it was forced upon the party by fear of socialism.

[Scuba]

12. I think we need to call out the tax avoiders publicly....

...name names, show the public the lifestyles they afford while avoiding taxes.


This fight needs a bad guy or two.

[Wait Wut]

13. Too negative.

"Class Warfare" will turn a lot of people off (including me). Words matter.

As far as the premise behind the phrase, it will depend on how the message is relayed.

1) Not phrasing it as Class Warfare, but getting the point across that positive action on the behalf of the middle class benefits our society as a whole. Everyone wins when the middle class has cash to spend. Bringing up the negative effect that Bush Breaks, Bailouts, wars has had on the middle class without falling into that negative trap is tricky. Facts, facts, facts and little emotion.

2) Yes on both counts depending on the message. As it is with all Democratic agendas. Again, keeping the message informative and positive will gain more support from all angles. We can sit here and say we don't care about moderates, Republicans or Independents, but it won't hurt our best candidates if the opposition has no ammo. There are many here that will strongly disagree, those that believe the louder the message the better. Actually, repetition is better than volume. Again...point to the disadvantages of a weekened middle class and the positive effect a strong middle class has overall.

3) At this point, I don't think it will have much of an effect on his campaign. However, if it were to be included, I would say it would have more of a positive impact than negative. Our President is the speech master and would know how to make the middle class sound like the saviors of America without burying the upper class in the mud. I understand how the rich are despised at DU, but they really do have an awful lot of money. I'd love for them to send lots of it to our Democratic candidates. It wouldn't hurt to have at least a few on our side. And...I used to be one of them. I'm not evil, I swear.

I honestly believe that DU has created a false sense of where the rest of the country stands. We are still not the majority. Democrats are, but DU houses a full spectrum of Dems and has an obviously Progressive slant. If we're to succeed in the future we have to be smart about it. Bashing people in the heads with our message makes us no better than teapers. We need to be taken seriously in a broader sense. Our messaging needs to be constant, factual and noncombative. Give the opposition no chance to debate. Make them the screamers so we can be the adults in the room.

Or, not. It's up to all of you.

[Spike89]

14. Class war is accurate, but not marketable...

War on the heartland, war on America's values, etc. would be effective but of course the propaganda-mongers have already co-opted those for false flag divisive issues such as the "war on xmas", abortion, gay marriage, etc.

The problem with class warfare is that America is not, has never been, and really will never be two classes, it isn't even the three people most talk about (upper, middle, and poor/lower). There are probably more like a dozen classes, roughly aligned to income (and mobility). We even have multiple classes of poor and despite the commonality of having virtually no money, there isn't much political cohesiveness between the urban street poor and the rural poor--in fact, it is probably easier to turn them against each other than to get them to turn their anger toward the elite. After all, they have seen other poor people--virtually none of us have much experience dealing with the ruling class. In fact, few of us actually ever meet members of the ruling class.

The working class means nothing in America. Is it a farmer, a mid-level manager, assembly-line worker, logger, miner, car sales person, teamster, insurance adjuster, cook, teacher, lawyer, doctor, small business owner? These various jobs can straddle the range from below the poverty level to solidly into the upper middle class. Some have concrete "bosses", most don't--the "boss" is just another middle class worker or a surrogate boss, as in the bank when it owns the deed to your farm.

How do you get these incredibly disparate people to view themselves as allied? The truth is it isn't "us versus them", it is the chronic poor vs. the working poor vs. the lower middle class vs. uneducated/"unskilled" middle class vs. the educated middle class vs. the upper middle class vs. the high upper middle class vs. the regional lower upper class vs. the regional upper class vs. the new money ruling class vs. the hereditary ruling class.

People will fight against the classes a few levels above and below, but the truth is that they can barely comprehend that there are distinctions between ranges. For instance, a lower middle class member, doesn't see a huge difference between having $1 million, $100 million or $100 billion, but they are vastly different levels of power and class within this country.

[snappyturtle]

15. I don't think the label 'class warfare' will hurt....really, how could it?

We're not getting anywhere not using it and we're certainly not winning the battles.

I would like to see the term, 'class warfare' morph into something like, 'welfare for the elite' or 'entitlements for the rich', anything that targets the beneficiaries of the 'handouts'. imho
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Anxious to see what you do with this H20 Man.

[xchrom]

16. 1 exactly - we're not getting any where not using it. Nt

[Zorra]

17. Nice point!

Where is it from?

I suspect a large percentage of Americans do not have a very broad immediate understanding of the concept of "class warfare".

IMO the RW wing would start a new "red scare" if Dems/prez used it, pontificating on the satanic doctrines of socialism and communism and quoting Marx, Engels, and Lenin all along the way.

Wouldn't be real good for the home team.

The concept needs to be called something less "sinister" so that the "average American" can grasp the meaning but not be put off by the term.

[nashville_brook]

18. all values issues, and not "class warfare" except to point out the assault on poor/middle class

[Shagbark Hickory]

19. No, Yes, Yes

1.) No.
2.) Yes, most just don't understand it.
3.) Yes simply because it's a lost opportunity to do something more effective.

[H2O Man]

20. kick

[Mnemosyne]

21. K&R for more visibility. n/t