"Unpaid Jobs: The New Normal" WTF?

[OKDem08]

Check out this snippet of a Fortune magazine article.

Maybe salaries are on the horizon as being referred to as an 'entitlement'.

FORTUNE -- With nearly 14 million unemployed workers in America, many have gotten so desperate that they're willing to work for free. While some businesses are wary of the legal risks and supervision such an arrangement might require, companies that have used free workers say it can pay off when done right.

"People who work for free are far hungrier than anybody who has a salary, so they're going to outperform, they're going to try to please, they're going to be creative," says Kelly Fallis, chief executive of Remote Stylist, a Toronto and New York-based startup that provides Web-based interior design services. "From a cost savings perspective, to get something off the ground, it's huge. Especially if you're a small business.

Source:

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/25/unpaid-jobs-the-new-normal/

[WCGreen]

1. Who wants a job....

I can see the reality show now...

[OhioChick]

2. USA! USA! USA!

[anneboleyn]

19. Seriously. This country's greed is all-consuming. No concern for our fellow citizens, just greed

endless greed -- now companies don't even have to pay workers, much less worry about a living wage, health care, and reasonable working hours and a safe work environment!

[OhioChick]

31. I agree 100% n/t

[Brickbat]

3. This is terrible. There is no reason to work for free, ever.

[IndyPragmatist]

13. I volunteered at with my current employer for 3 months....

and then was offered a full-time paid position. It's not much different than internships. For recent college graduates, experience is extremely valuable.

But I guess everyone should be guaranteed a job. :eyes:

[WingDinger]

15. They will use the bottom to intimidate the middle.

Pit those without jobs against those with them. Then, the rich get out of any scrutiny. Whole genre's of use to be careers have been eliminated as living wages by fresh out of school VOLUNTEERS. Locate your business around the school, and never pay going rate till going rate is volunteer.

[hifiguy]

22. Blammo! We have a winner. n/t

[Rage for Order]

16. How much was your mortgage payment when you were volunteering?

How much was your health insurance premium? Monthly groceries for your spouse and children? Car payment and gas to get to and from work? Electric bill, water, telephone?

:eyes: indeed

[IndyPragmatist]

17. I guess i forgot that everything was supposed to be handed to me

on a platter. I volunteered 25 hours/week and worked as a bartender on nights and weekends. It was a lot of work, but now I have a great job that I am very happy with.

Seriously, life isn't a handout. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I made mine, and now I can enjoy what I do have. Now, I have experience working for a well respected company and will have little trouble finding another job (if I choose to do so).

[Rage for Order]

25. You make a good point

Here I was, thinking that if I work for a company I should be paid in money when the truth of the matter is I should cherish the feeling of knowing that I am contributing to the profits of a business for no personal gain whatsoever!

You're so transparent that I'm guessing you work at a glass company.

[IndyPragmatist]

28. I look at it differently...

I had a job bartending. I made enough to cover my bills, but it was not giving me experience that was valuable to my career. So by volunteering as an intern, I got experience and eventually a job.

[JHB]

36. The point being, just how were you supporting yourself...

...when you were working for 3 months at no income?

On edit: OK, your bartending income was enough to cover the basics. The point below remains, because your situation required one job that paid well enough to cover low-enough expenses to afford the non-paid work. Being in that situation is its own form of "silver platter".

Not everyone (far from it) is in a position to do likewise. No "silver platters" involved either way, except for whomever is getting the benefits of that free labor.

[IndyPragmatist]

40. I worked 20-30 hours a week at another job.

Luckily, I was only supporting myself, so I was able to do this. If I was married and had kids, it would be another story, but for my situation, an unpaid internship really worked out well for me.

[JHB]

42. Yeah, sorry for the misread. see edit above.

[MedicalAdmin]

47. Interning is very different that working for free.

One is a contract between an entity that can provide relevant experience and someone desiring said experience, with the understanding that employment may very well be found on the other end. What is described in the article is slave labor.

It kind of reminds me of the virtual assistants that were all the rage during the 90s - tech savvy but poor and desperate folks from India (etc) would work for peanuts for self absorbed westerners. And now the shoe is on the other foot. A Toronto company is running the same program back on USA.

[yardwork]

27. Many good employees are having a lot of trouble finding jobs, even though they worked hard.

If you really believe that you will have "little trouble finding another job" if you "choose to do so" then I am afraid that you are in for a shock. You might be one of the lucky ones but you'll never be sure that you won't get outsourced at any moment.

It's a fiction, a pleasant reassuring fantasy, that hard work and loyalty is rewarded. It might be. It is far more likely not to be.

[gkhouston]

30. Your current employer got the "handout" of your labor. Doesn't sound like your

company is very respectable to me, and I'd keep your resume up to date. If they didn't think enough of you to pay you at least minimum wage during your "training period", they'll probably dump you in short order to hire someone who'll work for less.

[blondeatlast]

33. You volunteered TWENTY-FIVE hours a week?

Un-effin'-real.

[IndyPragmatist]

38. The job market for a liberal arts grad is terrible...

I took what was available and it worked out for me. Obviously, not everyone would have the same experience, but to act as if all unpaid positions are terrible is wrong.

It's pretty likely that I wouldn't have gotten an interview applying for a full time position, but after seeing what I was capable of as an intern, they gave me a shot.

[blondeatlast]

44. Well, bully for you. If you're happy, then who am I to concern myself with the

welfare of the collective?

I could say lots more in less than a sentence, but I don't want to risk a tombstone. Let's just say Stalin had a word for the likes of people who would do this.

I'm a capitalist--but I think EVERYONE is entitled to capital.

[county worker]

41. You say life isn't a handout yet you give some employer a hand out by working for free

Your a hypocrite!

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brickbat]

24. I'm curious how this was set up.

Was it presented to you as a three-month internship with the opportunity for full hire after three months? I have seen law firms saying they want a year's worth of free work out of graduates before they consider them for employment, which is indentured servitude.

[IndyPragmatist]

26. That's exactly how it was presented

I was told I would have three months as an intern, and at the end of that period, I would be considered for a full time position. There were two others that did the same things as me at the same time. One of them was offered a job, and the other was not. The one that was not seemed to have all the skills needed, but just wasn't very good at the job.

[enuegii]

32. Obviously, you're not in the market for one of these:

so maybe a pair of these is more your style?



And be sure to roll your eyes up at your boss man-- I'm sure he'll let you know if you're doing it wrong.

[GillesDeleuze]

43. if you work at a nonprofit that regularly uses volunteer labor, thats fine

anything else and its slavery.

[Taverner]

4. I've already seen this way too much

IN the IT industry, some of the players are offering "internships", but not the kind they usually give to college students. No, the "internship" is unpaid, but you still have to report 9-5 every day, and if your work is deemed good enough, then you get to be a contract worker and actually get paid. Getting a non-contract job is almost an impossibility these days.

This is raw capitalism. This is why I hate hate hate capitalism

We're pretty much living a Grapes of Wrath life here....

[abelenkpe]

5. Libertarians love this btw.

They are not out for your best interest. But they loves businesses and corporations! Read their blogs, know your enemy, they think teachers should work for free, firefighters work for free, etc etc etc....

[MedicalAdmin]

48. Free firefighters and teachers. Worth every penny they are paid.

Here's a hint for the libertarian trolls reading this; libertarian pixie dust is not something that Reagan sprinkled around in a tutu and it never fixed anything.

[Taverner]

6. Your mission should you choose to accept it:

If you ever meet someone working for nothing, do whatever it takes to get them to quit. Fair game: they are screwing us all by giving the market this much blood. If they are afraid to work for nothing because of the consequences, then people will think twice.

You know this is the end goal of capitalism. If you ever want to get paid again, these "serfs" need their minds changed by any means necessary.

[FiveGoodMen]

7. That's been the point of the whole exercise: slavery

[blondeatlast]

34. +1. nt

[WinkyDink]

8. Slavery is the correct term.

[geardaddy]

9. You beat me to it.

[IDemo]

10. I was going to say, didn't Abe kind of negate the unpaid job thingy?

[upi402]

11. "Internships" = the new slavery

OR!

You can be all you can be....

[Rex]

12. "People who work for free are far hungrier than anybody who has a salary..."

They won't be hungry after they pike your head on a fence post and take all your food. :eyes:

[Rage for Order]

14. Kelly Fallis's email is [e-mail]

Just in case you want to drop her a line and let her know what you think of her work for free ideas.

:evilgrin:

[Dawson Leery]

18. Kelly Fallis, again.

:argh:

[madrchsod]

20. we are the 6 th entry on kelly fallis google search...

march26....and more entries!

[hifiguy]

21. Umm, that is slavery or something very close to it.

Another damned good reason to storm the plutocracy and burn it to the ground.

Seriously, the people who come up with these ideas should be given the Jeanne d'Arc treatment.

[SoCalDem]

29. If it's unpaid, it's NOT a "job"

It could be an avocation, a hobby...volunteerism, but it's insulting to call it a job..

If it's an unpaid internship, call it that..

Employers USED to use entry-level/low paying JOBS...PAID jobs, as a training platform for new people, and once they "learned the ropes", they would advance in the company.

These days, employers expect people to come to them pre-trainers, fully "college-ed", and ready to work for peanuts..lacking the qualificationsrequired, they "might" offer you a no-pay job..:(

[blondeatlast]

39. The whole point of articles like these is to redefine the terms

and reframe the debate.

Apparently it worked marvelously well on someone in this thread.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

35. I think I've just about heard it all now

First, it was hearing about companies not wanting to hire people unless they ALREADY had a job and now, the concept of "unpaid jobs"

:wtf: :banghead: :crazy: :silly:

This is still the United States of America or have we entered a whole new bizarro reality???? The people talking about these things must either be REALLY brazen or must think the rest of us are all too stupid to "get it".

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Free work is illegal in the United States...an internship cannot legally be a job

There is a six-factor test to determine whether an internship is in compliance with federal wage and hour rules. Any internship offering institution that does not meet those factors is violating federal labor law, period. There is no such thing as voluntary free work in the United States. End of story. Anyone who offers it is a criminal.

[blondeatlast]

45. thank you--but the whole point of articles like these is to redefine the terms and

reframe the argument.

But I completely agree with you--this is goddamned CRIMINAL.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. It's not a question of agreement.,..it is standing and unquestionable federal law

[highplainsdem]

46. Here's the earlier thread about the article, with over a hundred replies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x743337

I thought it was disgusting, too.

[indimuse]

49. Slave Nation!

..now GET back to work!

[Initech]

51. Unpaid job = slavery!!!

Fuck this cost-savings perspective bullshit, this is slavery. No ifs ands or butts about it.

[RagAss]

53. Slave owner Motherfuckers !