School Custodians Earn More Than Teachers

[sinkingfeeling]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42639120

Teachers in at least one Bronx school earn less money than the building custodian, a stat that has surprised students and parents.

Although it is commonly assumed teachers' wages top the salaries of custodians, an NBC New York analysis of public payrolls shows many custodians make more money than even the highest paid city teachers.

According to the union contract governing New York City Custodian Engineers, the men and women responsible for keeping school buildings clean and operating can make up to $114,000 a year in base pay. The highest paid teacher, with a masters degree and decades of tenure, can hope to make just over $100,000 in base pay.

First-year New York City school teachers without graduate degrees,make about $45,000 a year. The minimum pay for a first-year custodial engineer is almost $80,000 a year.

"I think the fact that custodial engineers make more than teachers demonstrates the fact that teachers aren't paid enough," Stone said.

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. In fairness, they have to clean up some pretty disgusting shit. nt

[HopeHoops]

2. "Carl, how does one become a janitor? Andrew here is interested in a career in the custodial arts."

- John Bender, "The Breakfast Club" (best I can remember the quote and fit it into a subject line).

[tridim]

3. I'd do anything for $80k/year.

Except work for a Republican.

Anyone have leads in Kansas City?

[Courtesy Flush]

19. Hell yeah.

My job requires a degree, and top pay is much less than that. My wife's job requires a masters degree, and pays less than that.

[joeglow3]

4. Is that just salary or total benefits package?

Many unions sacrifice wages for nice pensions, cheaper health care, etc. I know father did and now that he is retirement is damn happy then did (compare to my father-in-law who is retired and doesn't have shit, yet drew a higher salary in his career).

[Stuart G]

5. Is it possible that this is just slanted right wing S**T because..

the title, "custodial engineers" may refer to the top guy/gal responsible for keeping the school running..like the top person/janitor/boss/engineer responsible for all aspects of keeping the place going heat, electricity, and keeping the place clean....not the guy/gal who cleans up the individual room.

the give a way that this isn't true is here:


First-year New York City school teachers without graduate degrees,make about $45,000 a year. The minimum pay for a first-year custodial engineer is almost $80,000 a year.

A first year janitor does not make that much, but I would guess the first year person in charge of the schools heat/light/clean up/and all other aspects of keeping the school going...........well that person may make $80,000...He/she is in charge of all the janitors, heat/light people and so on..a responsible job..

I dealt with those people when I was teaching, they really do lots of work, that is the top person,
......... and their salery should only be compared to the principal of the school.

.right wing garbage....

[AndyTiedye]

6. Why Is This?

[Lance_Boyle]

7. Garbage men ('sanitation engineers') probably earn even more.

So there you have it. Teachers, if you want better pay, quit teaching and start toiling in the sludge.

[JDPriestly]

15. Garbage collection is very dangerous work.

But then so is teaching nowadays. Several of my friends have suffered serious injuries in their classrooms.

[jberryhill]

8. Does this include the HVAC and boiler work?

That guy in the boiler room who keeps the heat and cooling systems running is still probably making less than a private sector counterpart with equivalent technical education, experience and skills.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. It's not that custodians are being paid too much

It's that teachers are being paid too little.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. Bingo!

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. A couple of questions

Do the custodians keep the same schedule as the teachers - or do they work longer days with only a couple of weeks of PTO time during the year? I assume that perhaps that varies from one school sysem to another. Here the school custodians get two weeks of PTO (combination of sick time and paid vacation) during the year. They typically arrive before and leave after administrators and teachers. They also are required to report for work on days that school is cancelled for incliment weather. I'm guesing some of that pay dfferential reflects the difference between a twelve month work schedule and a nine or ten month work schedule.

What are the pay grades for custodial workers? Is the comparison being made really valid? The guy that is the shift supervisor or the supervisor over all the buildings and/or all the custodial shifts is going to be earning more than a beginning custodian. In some districts these supervisory custodians are required to have considerable education and training. It is not fair to compare a supervisory custodian who works 50 weeks a year and has decades of experience and training with an inexperienced new teacher with no prior experience who works nine months during the year.

I'm not defending teacher pay. I am pointing out that custodial staff are not necessarily slouches. They often work very long hours, sometimes doing hard physical labor, and they often are well educated or have specialized training.

As a nation we do not value blue collar work. That is the source of at least some of our economic ills. We think we are too fucking good to break a sweat or dirty our hands. Meanwhile a decent plumber need not ever find himself without a source of income - and he is likely to earn considerably more than a white collar contemporary working a phone bank or retail or many entry to mid level management positions. Hopefully some of these teachers have the foresight to teach these kids to value and respect all work - even the dirty jobs.

[JDPriestly]

17. Teachers actually work long hours. They have to grade homework,

prepare classes and study to keep up with new developments in curriculum and their fields. Teachers do not just work during the schoolday. Many of them take night classes and summer courses. The length of the classroom day is only part of the work.

It is a common misunderstanding that teachers do not work long hours. False.

[Coyote_Bandit]

18. Ummmm......

The number of hours of work a particular person requires to do a job is not the same thing as the number of hours they are required to be present at their workplace. Some folks do not seem to work much at all while at the jobsite. Some do indeed manage to complete their job assignments at their workplace. Others find it necessary to put in lots of extra hours and take work home. Sometimes that's a function of the job and sometimes it is the result of less than efficient time management and work methods. As someone with 3 graduate and professional degrees - including a master's degree in education - I must say that I have personally observed many, many grossly inefficient teachers at all levels.

Taking classes is not unique to teachers. In most districts you will find a well trained custodial staff - often with continuing education and certification requirements. Some of those custodial supervisors and engineers are going to be trained in management, building systems, engineering, chemistry and various health and food safety skills. Many of them also have education requirements that must be met.

Taking classes should not be viewed as a burden. Teachers, of all professions, ought to value the opportunity to learn and to continue learning. Many are denied that opportunity for various reasons. And yet the very people who should most value the opportunituy for lifelong learning often complain bitterly about it. If a teacher complains about the opportunity to learn then perhaps that teacher should consider another career. If a teacher personally does not welcome the opportunity to learn then it is hard to imagine they inspire that desire in their students.

Teachers work hard. So do lots of other people. Including the school custodial staff - the custodial staff that unlocks the school doors in the morning, is on call throughout the school day and stays to clean the toilets, scrub the floors, empty the trash and re-arrange the school desks one more time long after the teachers have gone home.

Most other people don't get to take off June and July and part of May and August. Many teachers do. You simply cannot compare the salary for a 9 month job to the salary for a 12 month job without making some adjustments.

[LanternWaste]

21. Many teachers do.

"Most other people don't get to take off June and July and part of May and August. Many teachers do."

Most other people don't have to spend four hours each evening grading papers and going over lessons plans. Many teachers do.

[Obamanaut]

22. What you said in the very first line of that response is entirely true.

I would imagine that there are office workers all over the country are sitting in their cubicles surfing the internet, posting on forums, etc. Even some of the posters here have asked for clarification or details about an ongoing event 'for the cubicle rats.'

[JDPriestly]

23. Do custodians work when the school buildings are closed.

Most of my friends who are teachers are required to take courses, all kinds of courses, just to stay employed.

Further, custodians do not work on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Lots of teachers do. Hopefully, cleaning a toilet is easier than explaining the history of the American Revolution to kids who prefer to play video games.

[immoderate]

11. A custodial engineer is a manager as well.

He runs the crew. He is responsible for maintenance on a school building -- classrooms, auditorium, gym, grounds, electric, plumbing, heating, air conditioning.

He's not the sweeper/toilet cleaner.

--imm

[Sal Minella]

12. Most custodial staff is male. Most teachers are female. That.Is.All. n/t

[JDPriestly]

14. What kind of housing can a person rent on $45,000 per year?

Is there enough room to sit and grade papers?

A teacher could not raise a family on that, not unless the spouse was also working.

[SoCalDem]

16. and they will be next on the chopping block..count on it.. n/t

[murdoch]

20. Custodians and cleaners

A custodian is responsible for the entire school. The custodian has cleaners work under him. It is a managerial position - the top managerial position in a school for the position. The custodian might have a dozen or more people under him.

Virtually no cleaners work eight hours a day. How many custodians are cleaning between 9AM and 3PM? It makes no sense. A large number of cleaners usually come in at 3 PM and clock a few hours Monday through Friday.