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stockholmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 12:47 PM Original message |
Furious Greeks press for country to default on debt, Violence on the streets as backlash grows |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 12:51 PM Response to Original message |
1. So if they default, the bond holders on don't get paid |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:03 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Isn't that what Finnland is saying, too? |
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stockholmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:22 PM Response to Reply #4 |
16. I think you mean Iceland, Finland (along with Sweden, Norway, Denmark) is doing well economically |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:52 PM Response to Reply #16 |
49. Iceland. All those blonds look alike to me. |
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stockholmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 03:46 PM Response to Reply #49 |
57. public debt is debt accumulated directly by a government, private debt is owed by people and firms |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 11:13 PM Response to Reply #57 |
69. Yes. We have been robbed. Yet we hang no one. |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:04 PM Response to Reply #1 |
5. Do you think things would be any better if the government is unable to borrow? |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:10 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Yes, things would be much better. |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:17 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Unless they live within their means, that would not help |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 04:27 PM Response to Reply #11 |
58. Look at Argentina's example. |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:13 PM Response to Reply #5 |
8. Greek 2 year bond yields just hit 20% today |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:16 PM Response to Reply #8 |
10. The risk of default is built into the high rates. Who is going to loan money with a high... |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Indeed. The people buying Greek debt knew what they were getting into |
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sixmile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:24 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. Plenty of junk bond investors out there to eat these up |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:27 PM Response to Reply #17 |
22. "the yields are up because the bond prices are down". |
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truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:34 PM Response to Reply #22 |
67. So in other words, it all works perfectly for |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 08:38 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. There is nothing more to it than simple math |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:21 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. Living without credit is very difficult for individuals and for governments |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:38 PM Response to Reply #14 |
29. And Yet, Is So Very Liberating |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:20 PM Response to Reply #14 |
66. The evidence does not support that claim. |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:18 PM Response to Reply #1 |
12. I don't think they are leeches, but they do know the risks. Interest rates are high because of... |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:24 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. It isn't clear to me how they would manage with no credit. |
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former9thward (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:26 PM Response to Reply #1 |
19. You do know that bond investors would no longer lend Greece money, don't you? |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
25. 4 options |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:39 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. They have to spend less money (austerity) |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:43 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. Austerity isn't the only option |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:46 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. I would include raising taxes as part of an austerity package |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:03 PM Response to Reply #31 |
63. Actually, there's an old maxim that says you lend money at your |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:01 PM Response to Reply #25 |
36. Whether a good choice or not... 5. dump the euro and print your own currency. |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:20 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. What makes you think any foreign suppliers would accept it as payment? |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:33 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. it would likely have to be converted to euro and I would expect the exchange... |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:44 PM Response to Reply #40 |
45. It would work, provided they used restraint in managing the money supply |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:48 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. Can austerity be avoided? again this is coming from ignorance of the composition... |
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datan (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:43 PM Response to Reply #1 |
32. um |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 04:50 PM Response to Reply #32 |
61. Probably because political leaders are economically naive. |
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xchrom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 12:52 PM Response to Original message |
2. Ruh-roh. Nt |
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FLPanhandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 12:55 PM Response to Original message |
3. Default may be the best long term option |
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sixmile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:06 PM Response to Original message |
6. The Greeks are wise to default |
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former9thward (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:27 PM Response to Reply #6 |
21. They will have a choice. |
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sixmile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:32 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. I disagree |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:34 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. LOL. Like they guaranteed payment on these bonds? |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:34 PM Response to Reply #24 |
41. I think Greece's problem stem from *never* having a large tax base |
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FLPanhandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:31 PM Response to Reply #6 |
23. If it's tough to live within their means by borrowing |
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jwirr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
9. Isn't that what Iceland did? I am assuming their debt is to IMF? That |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:26 PM Response to Reply #9 |
20. The default has tanked Iceland's economy for the time being, but it was |
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jwirr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:36 PM Response to Reply #20 |
28. Good. I sounds like the default has given them another chance to |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:19 PM Response to Reply #28 |
65. They have fewer people than the city of Minneaoplis on an island the size of |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
15. K&R |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:35 PM Response to Original message |
27. And the financiers are coming for us next. |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 01:44 PM Response to Reply #27 |
33. What do you mean "coming for us"? When it comes to fiscal policy, ... |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:00 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. So whose side are you on? |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:19 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. I'm on the side that wants the country to survive intact |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:37 PM Response to Reply #37 |
42. The country? What about the people? |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:41 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Thanks, I'll stick with the way things are laid out now |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:50 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. We work for the future or we stand against it. n/t |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Are those really the only two choices? on second thought, can there even be two choices?? |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:56 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. The future is a world without capitalism. |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 03:00 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. so your real question is, correct me if I'm wrong, please... |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 04:38 PM Response to Reply #54 |
59. That's about it. |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 04:53 PM Response to Reply #37 |
62. We don't need to borrow and we could pay off our debts tomorrow. |
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coalition_unwilling (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 05:10 PM Response to Reply #37 |
64. Hunh? Exactly what promises have we made that we can't afford |
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datan (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:29 PM Response to Reply #35 |
39. hm |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:39 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. Why would I do that? |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:47 PM Response to Reply #43 |
46. Whatever you are, I'm glad you are not running things |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:53 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. What, you got a problem with sharing? |
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badtoworse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 03:06 PM Response to Reply #50 |
55. I share lots of things - both my time and money |
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yawnmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 02:56 PM Response to Reply #43 |
52. Most of the Greek debt is held by the Greek banks. I don't have knowledge beyond that on who... |
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datan (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 03:29 PM Response to Reply #43 |
56. right |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 04:40 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. Blow off the debt. n/t |
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BlueCheese (897 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-18-11 11:54 PM Response to Original message |
70. I remember two articles from the NYT... |
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