Kloppenburg Recount will be PARTIALLY by hand. Also the Wausheka County

[Cal33]

affair will have an independent investigator. This doesn't look so bad at all. Maybe there is
a chance that right-wing election fraud will be exposed -- for a change!

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/04/22/kloppenburg-prosser-recount-will-be-performed-partially-by-hand/

[bluestateguy]

1. I call it the Prosser recount

Kloppenberg is ahead.

[pintobean]

10. Huh?

Enlighten us.

[HereSince1628]

2. EVERYTHING does not hang on the Kloppenburg election

Yes, it would be a strategically very good thing for the court to get someone who leans left.

BUT!!! We also have this recall thingy going on. And changing the WI senate to be controlled by left-leaners would protect us from more evil doing and faster than the SCOWI could.

[Snoutport]

4. Maybe you'll do both!! That's what we're all hoping for!! :0)

[KharmaTrain]

12. Bingo...

We have two dynamics at play here. First is the anger and frustration many feel about Wanker's reign of terror and any victory, big or small, is important. I agree...and even if Kloppenberg did lose fairly (get to that in a moment) the change in the electorate from last November to that election is dramatic and bodes well for the upcoming recalls. I've been to suburban Milwaukee working on the recall...and honestly, few of us paid much attention to the Kloppenberg race. We were busy gathering signatures and organizing for the elections ahead...what we hope will be a steady erosion of the GOTB majorities. People have been startled into action and see the recalls not what was originally a small special election as having much impact. It's not the courts that should overturn these draconian "budget cutting" (translation: union busting) measures it should and will be the Wisconsin electorate.

That said, I've always been dubious about the claim of election fraud...simply cause its all but impossible to prove it. Suspect all you will, but I can't recall any election that was overturned due to finding some kind of tampering with the machines or some other behind-the-scenes hijinks. I've worked elections for nearly 40 years and there are a lot of people who watch these things...and a lot of money and jobs on the line. I won't deny there's attempts to rig elections, but it's done BEFORE getting to the ballot box...voter intimidation that can drive down turnout. Its the games played in contesting a person's registration before they even get to the polls...it's the slowing down of voting that creates long lines that will discourage people from voting. If and when someone proves a massive vote rigging...followed by indictments and convictions, then this is an issue of concern...in the meantime when someone screams about the votes being manipulated at the voting booth or in the count as more sour grapes than a legimiate excuse.

[daa]

17. Ask LBJ or Jimmie Carter or Max Cleland

"That said, I've always been dubious about the claim of election fraud"

[KharmaTrain]

19. I Can Ask Many People...

...but were there convictions for such fraud? I grew up in Chicago where vote early/vote often was the mantra...and have heard fraud used as an excuse in almost every close election. I see it used as a crutch to cover up a poorly run campaign or candidate...to try to justify a failure. I'm as dubious as anyone about there being fraud...but I see voter intimidation as a far bigger problem/threat...poor turnouts that make elections close and possible to manipulate. But...again, I'm looking for a solid case and conviction of someone who tried to manipulate the results of an election, not dubious or conspiracies...

Cheers...

[Cal33]

18. "I've always been dubious about the claim of election fraud." How about the Diebold

Electronic Voting Machines? Don't you remember the CEO of Diebold boasting
that he could deliver Ohio to Bush in 2004? And he did!! Now that was just
one state. In 2004 most of the states were using Republican-made electronic
voting machines.

EXPERTS STATED THAT ELECTRONIC FRAUD COULDN'T BE TRACED.

The very fact that the CEO of Diebold boasted what he could do, showed in
what high esteem he must have held the Dems.!!

[KharmaTrain]

20. Do We Have A Conviction?

Has there been anyone ever indicted and convicted for actually manipulating an electronic voting machine? I've been here back to the days of Bev whatshername and lengthy discussions about Diebold, Electronic Voting and I'm not discounting the possibility but I'm looking at the facts. If there has been someone whose been convicted of moving numbers around...deliberate attempts to move thousands of votes from Candidate A to B then I'd like to use that as reference rather than the long list of conjectures as to how it could happen. It's turned into a convenient crutch to explain away a poorly run campaign or flawed candidate.

I'm more concerned about voter intimidation...that keeps them away from the polls rather than what goes on in the voting booth. Poor turn-out last year led to a lot of the problems we see now, not some conspiracy to flip votes. In the 70s I was a pollwatcher working with the old lever machines. If you think Diebold is a problem, you should have seen how slipshod and easy it was to "accidentally" hit a wheel or add a zero or two to a tally and no one is the wiser.

The key is "who does the counting". I'm more concerned about a GOTB Secretary of State (like a Ken Blackwell)...and how it's important for Democrats to control those key positions.

[Cal33]

21. Naturally, electronic voting machines represent only one of the many

fraudulent ways.

[iwishiwas]

3. The independent investigation has not been determined as

far as I know. She has requested it-but that is all.

[pintobean]

11. "GAB denies Kloppenburg’s request for private investigator to investigate"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x939730

That's the last word I've heard and a google search hasn't turned up anything new. I don't know where the o.p. got that. Its not in the linked article.

[iwishiwas]

13. Thanks. In fact I thought I had seen that it had been denied but my

memory is short.

I saw Kevin Kennedy on Wisconsin Public TV last Sunday---I was not all that impressed with him. He was OK but there did not seem to any fight in him.

[Cal33]

14. You are correct. The passage simply stated Kloppenburg's complaint, and

said nothing about the results of that complaint:

"The complaint basically says that the Government Accountability Board works too closely with the
county clerks to investigate them, and that an independent counsel must be brought in. The complaint
goes through the circumstances in Waukesha on Election Night and the checkered history of County
Clerk Kathy Nickolaus."

Sure hope Kloppenburg will continue to complain. If the GBA's own people will be doing the
investigaion, it will just be a farce. Nickolaus will be found innocent and exhonorated.

That's how they always win -- throught fraud and deceit. These pachyderm-skinned people are
without conscience and know no shame. Criminals should not be holding responsible office,
because they are without scruples or responsibility.

[elocs]

5. Let's not cling to false hope because the reality is that she will likely still lose.

The bigger hope is that light will be shed on Waukesha and anywhere else there are election shenanigans. Like cockroaches they will scurry from the light.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

6. I am seriously hoping

they find fraud. I would love to know how secure the ballots have been and are in the red zones - blue, for that matter, too.

Adding - I want them to find the fraud that we all knows can and does take place...

[Cal33]

8. Yes, the important thing is that light be shed on the election fraud

shenanignas that have been going on for so long, and the Neocons have
been getting away with them with impunity so far. It's about time
that one of them gets caught, is proven guilty, and gets punished
for the crime to teach them a lesson. If the Dems. again show themselves
to be namby-pamby, it will be to their own detriment!

[Scuba]

9. Yep. Exposing widespread election fraud would be a bigger win...

...than getting JoAnne in or the Republican 8 out.


We'll see.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. A Big K&R!

:kick:

[robcon]

15. I think a lot of DUers are expecting fraud, when there's no evidence of it.

Let's not put all our eggs in the Kloppenburg basket (Easter reference.)

[Cal33]

16. From Bush/Gore till today, the Neocons have practiced nothing but nationwide fraudulent elections.

How much more evidence do you need before you begin to become
wary of them whenever election times approach? Do you think
being trusting of these characters would be a wise approach,
or would it help them to change their crooked ways?

People with anti-social personality disorders have no conscience
to be worked on. They cannot be influenced. The only thing
they respond to in this situation is fear of being found out
and punished.

And since they know that the Dems. have been namby-pamby and
wishy-washy about the punishment part, they don't even seem
to mind too much about being found out. They know that no
punishment will follow. They are becoming less and less afraid
of openly showing their crookedness and corruption.

Dems. are becoming their enablers -- and at the Dems.' own expense.
It's beginning to look like one is as crazy as the other. They
seem to fit well together.

Sadists and masochists fit well together. It's just that one of
them won't live very long.

[Matariki]

22. Very interesting indeed...

"Details included in Kloppenburg’s request for a special investigator in Waukesha — including the curious point that Prosser “was observed entering the Governor’s Office late in the evening and attending a private, one-on-one meeting with Governor Scott Walker” on the night following the election, on the very same day in which the controversial new GOP Governor publicly stated that there might be “ballots somewhere, somehow found out of the blue that weren’t counted before.” — are certainly compelling."