I'm not a prude by any means, but I think we need to call a time-out

[Syrinx]

I guess the current trend started with the commercials for the ED drugs. Viagra and the rest of them.

Once we began to to discuss "erections" at the dinner table, all bets were off.

Now, we have unending ads for vibrators and lubricants in prime time?

Woman getting their "hair blown back" with the help of Trojan condoms.

People talking about fucking, in not too disguised language, all the fucking time.

I'm a middle-aged man. Last night, I was visiting with my mother, a cancer patient.

I tuned the tv to IFC and the great show "Freaks And Geeks." That is a show I really relate to because of my age and stuff. I think it is a really realistic show. I thought it would be something my mom could relate to.

And during one of their "breaks," they had a promo for the "Whitest Kids You Know," that is about a teenager spraying his bedroom walls with semen.

I thought that was unnecessary, and unnecessarily embarrassing.

We should have the right to be dirty. But does every fucking thing in existence have to be dirty? Or the dirtiest it can be?

[closeupready]

1. I don't disagree that lockerroom humor dominates popular entertainment, but

to play devil's advocate, it's weird how we don't think (or don't like to think?) that our parents or even grandparents know what semen is, or what sex is. Every person in the world is the product of an act of sexual intercourse (with incredibly few exceptions).

K&R

[WinkyDink]

190. It used to be called "mixed company." And we're not talking biology; we're talking smarmy and sleazy

[seabeyond]

2. i think it is pretty sad we are in a culture you have to clarify, "i am not a prude" before

making this op

[raccoon]

42. Yep. Our culture is sexually saturated. I feel for parents these days. nt

[Keith Bee]

46. Girls encouraged to be sexual at younger and younger ages

Our society has been slouching toward acceptance of pedophilia for many years now, with the internet ably assisting TV, which has led the way (and continues to).

[DutchLiberal]

72. "Acceptance of pedophilia"?! In which parallel universe?

Whenever I read about a case of pedophilia on the internet and I check the hundreds of comments, there's nothing but comments about how the guy should be hanged, or have his balls cut off etc. And that the ridiculous 'sex-offenders list', available to everybody in the US, where even 18 year old who did it with their 15 year old girlfriends get mentioned. Does that signal "acceptance of pedophilia" to you?

It's not like society "encourages" girls to be sexually active at younger ages. It just so happens that, biologically speaking, after menstruation, girls are 'ready' (again, biologically speaking only) to engage in sex. What has happened over the course of many centuries, however, is that we, as a society, have placed abnormally strict rules on them. We have drawn arbitrary lines to tell girls (and boys) from which age on they could fuck. But a lot of girls and boys never followed those 'guidelines'; they still fucked, but kept it silent. Now, over the last decades, these artificial boundaries are being questioned. The only thing that has changed, is that nowadays, it's more out in the open. That's all.

[Keith Bee]

147. 1) People say a lot of things on the internet

2) Have you been paying attention to what the media has been shitting out the past couple of decades???

[DutchLiberal]

185. That is in no way even close to a rebuttal of what I just said.

That's just too lazy one-liners that don't really *mean* anything. Again: if you think society is gearing "acceptance of pedophilia", you need our head examined, because clearly, you live in an alternate universe. In my universe, also known as 'reality', we have become more and more strict and severe against sex with/between teenagers. We are moving in the opposite direction of where you're saying we're going. I have argued why. You have not taken an effort to debunk it. It seems to me you just don't "like" today's sexual morality and you try to "discredit" it by making outrageous claims.

[Leftist Agitator]

197. +1

:thumbsup:

[Warren DeMontague]

248. "lazy one-liners that don't really *mean* anything." ---EXACTLY.

These threads are, invariably, full of them.

Of course, you're not supposed to think too deeply about them or ask what they actually mean, you're just supposed to cluck, cluck, cluck along with the rest of the doily-clutching concern chickens.

[Gemini Cat]

85. +1!

GMTA!

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Once ya squeeze that toothpaste out of the tube....

.... it's impossible to get it back in. And pretty hard to figure out where it's going to oooooze after that.

But I more or less agree with you.

[Recursion]

41. Nah, this is cyclic

Compare the 20's with the 50's: some generations are more prudish than others. We Xers were never comfortable with our elders' and -- what's the opposite of that? youngers'? -- comfortableness.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. I don't know which Gen X you grew up with;

but my peers and I were hardly 'prudish'; and this was despite the media (and the boomers) hyping AIDS and constantly telling us 'the sexual revolution is over'. If it was, we sure didn't get the memo.

[peace frog]

4. Nothing is sacred

On the other hand, the show being promo'd is geared towards young adults, featuring the subjects they find funny. It's not meant to entertain older folks like us.

My mother is an 82 year old cancer survivor who finds that sort of thing uninteresting, but not "dirty" and I agree. It depends on what your definition of "dirty" is.

Please give my best wishes for good health to your mom. :)

[Syrinx]

7. thank you peace frog!

[JoePhilly]

5. I saw an unbelievable ad last night ...

In the ad, an attractive woman in a light weight skirt is walking happily along the street.

There are bushes all along the street. As she passes each bush, its shape goes from being kind of rough and ragged, to a perfectly trimmed shape.

This happens over and over as she walks, as the voice over babbles in an abstract manner but the product is not revealed.

The last bush she passes gets reshaped into an upside down triangle.

And that's when they show you the product. A special razor for a woman's bikini area.

No joke.

[CoffeeCat]

45. I saw that ad!

I saw that ad about a month ago, and I was shocked!

Yes, the hedges morphed from untrimmed--into tidy little rectangles and triangles--as the woman walked by them.

I was totally turned off by that ad, and I thought to myself---geez, is anything private anymore?

And a sidebar---So women are supposed to feel like a scruffy, out-of-control lawn hedge if they aren't perfectly
(ahem) trimmed? That commercial brings out into the open what society *thinks* women should look like in areas
that are very private and they make a statement about women who don't.

It's bad enough that the media offers so many visual suggestions about what we need to look like to everyone--whip thin,
big boobs, flawless skin and face--as well as long, lustrous hair. So not only do women have to look perfect to the
entire world--apparently, even areas that are private must live up to some media-set standard.

If you think about it--it really is quite hilarious. Women's private areas are now landscaping that needs to be
perfectly coiffed. If not--your body is like an unruly, neglected and shameful shrub. LOL.

Oy vey... :eyes:

[Chorophyll]

56. +zillions. Thanks.

[Ilsa]

81. And there's the products that insinuate that women are "dirty"

in the groin area and need special products for regular cleansing, as if a typical shower ain't gonna cut it!

[pipi_k]

125. I remember the big feminine hygiene spray campaign of the 70s

The admen had me convinced that I would "offend" any human who stood less than five feet away.

Spray, spray, spritz


then the sanitary products came with deodorant in/on them.


We all stunk to high heaven...

:cry:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

148. Sometimes the cleaning is needed several times a day when you're a woman.

And I've had one baby, and I will not go into detail. It can get awfully gross.


I never felt proud of being a woman when I was menstruating. I thought it was an awful nuisance and I was disabled by cramps for decades. That was four days & 13 times a year.

Just a gigantic pain in my life.

[JoePhilly]

109. My 12 year old daughter was sitting next to me ...

and she is an "early bloomer" ... and my wife and I have been very open with her on all of this "icky stuff".

And when the ad ended, I looked over at her to see if she caught the intent, and she looked at me, and rolled her eyes.

It was hilarious.

[RandySF]

217. Even playgrounds

Last night I took my son to the playground and a pair of women were making out inside the equipment. It was awkward because I felt like I was being a prude for disapproving (and this applies to straight couples as well). I'm all for sexual freedom. I'm even all for watching, but at the right places, not a playground full of kids.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

146. I saw that ad and LOL'd.

thought it was hilarious.

[OllieLotte]

6. Totally agree.

[DCKit]

8. I too remember when they first began running "feminine products" ads during the dinner hour.

It's been downhill ever since.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Plaster the TV screen with panty liners and turn the volume off.

It's coming to that point, at least with me.

[jtown1123]

84. Nothing wrong with advertising for feminine products. It is not something dirty or shameful

[loudsue]

138. It's not dirty or shameful, but it IS private!!!!

Shit!

[jberryhill]

154. It's not private to the people who hold down good jobs at the companies that make those products

And, by golly, advertising moves product.

[jtown1123]

218. It might make you uncomfortable, but that's something you have to deal with.

It's a natural body process.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. Ads are becoming more and more tasteless.

They've gone beyond the clever and entertaining stage.

That's one reason why I seldom watch TV.

[qb]

11. The less-inhibited sexual references seem like what's been on European TV for decades.

I find it far preferable to ads for the latest Grand Theft Auto game or murder-glorifying TV show. Americans should be more prudish about TV violence and less so about stuff that just makes people feel good.

[pintobean]

13. My ancestors left europe because it sucked.

[jberryhill]

26. Europe has changed a bit since then

[pintobean]

32. Really? Are you sure?

I'll add this, just in case...
:sarcasm:

[jberryhill]

151. His ancestors fled Ireland in the 1800's to get away from U2 constantly on the radio /nt

[pintobean]

205. You have no idea how funny that is to me.

My wife is a huge U2 fan and sometimes I want to flee my home.

[Schema Thing]

57. well it doesn't suck now.

[blondeatlast]

88. Mine were kinda kicked out but I was there a few years ago and it ain't the Utopia

it's cracked up to be. Not too mention Americans smell a LOT better.

[pintobean]

91. Lol

Glad to see that someone knew I was joking.

[StarsInHerHair]

159. seriously? still? I thought that was 'back in the day', not in the 21st Century

?

[Demit]

18. The difference is, European ads use humor, and sophisticated humor at that. And they're forthright

about sex. In the US, we have to be sly about it, and snicker at it, because sex is dirty & bad. It's the Puritan heritage thing. Europeans are grownups about sex, while we are forever stuck in sophomoric humor.

[jberryhill]

28. Yes, the all-night sex chat ads on German TV are the pinnacle of "sophisticated"

Not.

Oh, hey, "sex" rhymes with the number "sechs"... let's point that out for the next twelve hours.

[seabeyond]

34. ya... i saw about a half hour of clips of that "sophisticated" tv on italian shows.....

ugly old farts denigrating young naked gals, repeatedly, then giggling like a bunch of 13 yr old boys.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

40. Sexism alive and well in Europe -nt

[Demit]

49. Oh well, you both got me there. Your 1/2 hour obviously negates my premise.

And jberry with his all-night 12 hours of watching the crude doesn't give him much time to see anything else.

[seabeyond]

53. sigh... it is good you have seen the light

wink

[DutchLiberal]

75. She's not often right, but she *is* right about Italian tv, dude.

It's horrid.

[DutchLiberal]

74. The poster was talking about "ads"; not about the degrading and dehumanizing trash on Italian tv...

Oh, I know all about Italian tv. Have you seen the documentary 'Videocracy', about Italian media under (prime-minister) Berlusconi? It's unbelievable. I also think it's unfair to judge all of Europe's tv on the basis of one far-off country. You won't see things like that on Polish tv. ;)

[jberryhill]

152. What about that French channel that makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!

I can't remember which one it is, but it is carried on a lot of European cable systems, too.

When we visit a new place, my wife always waits to hear, "Hey, honey, they've got that damned French channel that never goes anywhere..."

I think it is France4 or France5, and I think they think it is an "art" channel.

To me, it seems like they just tapped the video feed right out of some schizophrenic's brain.

[Art_from_Ark]

178. Sounds like the "Big Time Television Network"

from the TV series "Max Headroom"! :)

[TK421]

231. "all day, every day, making tomorrow feel like yesterday"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_T6y4fitZV9I/TBIwwv36qcI/AAAAAAAAB2o/24aCIDfamC4/s1600/Blank+Reg.jpg

[Lorien]

61. True. I dated a Swede who was always shocked by American's adoration of extreme

violence. He would say "In Sweden we find murder offensive and we like bare breasts, which are beautiful, but in America you seem to find bare breasts far more offensive than murder." He's right.

[siligut]

114. So true

Extreme violence and insinuating that all women should look like porn stars is all fine in the US. We have gone astray.

[Quantess]

175. and what's wrong with bare breasts?

I really don't care, because I'm a heterosexual woman.
With Swedish parents.

[callous taoboy]

68. + 1

[bullimiami]

12. WTH is up with the 2 bathtubs? Thats just weird.

[chillspike]

133. LOL

I wondered about that too. I can't stand those commercials.

[jberryhill]

153. It was required by the FCC to allow the ads and to boost the sagging outdoor bathtub industry /nt

[nolabels]

201. Something is sagging but I'm not sure if it's the bathtubs

The payments for the people who produce those ads would sag too if people didn't buy it. Obviously somebody is buying otherwise why would they keep on advertising it for so long?

[gkhouston]

233. Maybe they're hinting you'll get a boner strong enough to pierce cast iron?

}( It always makes me think of married couples sleeping in twin beds in 50's and early 60's TV programs. :eyes:

[Donnachaidh]

14. I'll bet the ad people they hire all finish comments with *that's what SHE said*

I've had to talk to my son and some of his buddies about the almost constant sexual innuendo about -everything- lately. And I do credit these ads with fueling teenaged obsession with all things (potentially) sexual.

But I have to figure that the marketing crowd is getting younger in age, and also in that obsessed and stupid stage. And they've convinced the companies that this sort of nonsense is *young and hip* - when in actuality it's older than dirt (the innuendo) and repulsive when puked out with regularity.

[Scuba]

29. Yeah, there was no obsession with sex back in the day. OK, a little maybe. Oh shit.

[Donnachaidh]

33. Not to this amount -- and certainly not as childish about it

But hey -- it's *new and hip* when everything even remotely possibly sexual is exploited, yes?

[alcibiades_mystery]

47. Oy vey

"Si, senorita, I know that you will like the chicky boom chick
'Cause it's the dance of latin romance
And Cuban Pete doesn't teach you in a hurry like Arthur Murry
You're now in Havana and there's always manana"

Desi Arnaz, Cuban Pete

Sex talk used to be highly coded, but popular culture has always been awash in sex talk. What do you think "teach" means in this context? Let me explain: when Cuban Pete fucks women, he goes for a really long time, unlike these white boys with their quick, premature ejaculations. This from the star of I Love Lucy, itself just drenched in sexual innuendo. There are plenty of studies of the multiple ways advertisements from the 1930's on coded sex talk to get around the censors. The lyrics to Cuban Pete are a good example, but there are thousands. This thread verges on a "Kids get off my lawn" sort of complaint.

[Donnachaidh]

103. no -- this thread is a leaning towards a bunch of pouty kids whining because their ads are STUPID

And people point out that they are stupid.

Yeah, earlier songs and stuff were *encoded* that way. No argument there. Today's version of that same encoding -- the singer grabs and rubs his crotch while rapping he wants to *sex you up*...

REAL ingenuity there, huh? Hours of thought and creativity went into that grab and jerk movement, right?

Creativity -- it's non-existant in today's marketing.

:eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

115. Yeesh

I'll leave you to your weird resentment.

[Leftist Agitator]

198. Blame young Elvis Presley's hip gyrations...

Or Michael Jackson's patented crotch grab.

Oh, and, "...while rapping he wants to *sex you up*..."

Um, dude, Color Me Badd came out with that song 20 YEARS ago.

The stuff you're complaining about isn't even remotely contemporary.

[Scuba]

70. One might argue that the amount of obsession is unchanged....

...but that it's now much more out in the open, socially acceptable.

Whether that's more or less childish than the old taboos is perhaps in the eyes of the beholder.

[Donnachaidh]

106. *socially acceptable*?

don't think so, but that's subjective, obviously.

American marketing is getting downright embarrassing -- from Burlington Coat Factories *Brag About it* campaign, which makes the american consumer look like a fucking idiot - to the Ax campaigns for that toxic mess they call a cologne. To the *hair blow back* stupidity for a vibrator.

Stupid.Anal.and yes, Childish.

[Scuba]

135. Perhaps my probelm is that I never watch commercials.....

...DRV, the best thing to happen to Television. Ever.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. Ah, yes, the Good Old Days™.

Thing sure were better in the Good Old Days™.

[Donnachaidh]

107. watch a movie titled Idiocracy

It's a satire but touches on so much of what is being discussed in this thread.

And no, I don't pine for the Good ole days -- but it would be nice to think that everything doesn't relate to plain assed stupid marketing ploys written by teenaged boys (or the mentality of teenaged boys).

[Warren DeMontague]

110. I've seen Idiocracy.

FWIW, there's plenty of intelligent TV out there, if one looks for it. Of course, one has to know how to use the channel changer, which the perpetually outraged on these sorts of things seem incapable of managing. Hell, I'm old enough to remember how things used to be, too. And what- we've got a Royal Wedding coming up? Can you imagine how fucking inescapable that thing would be if we still only had 3 channels?

:scared:

Anyway, re: Idiocracy, I highly doubt Mike Judge is advocating censorship. (Remember, he's also the guy who brought us Beavis and Butthead, which contained some absolutely brilliant moments and ALSO pissed off the would-be censor crowd.) In that movie, shows like "Ow my Balls" (classic) are a symptom, not a cause.

If anything, he's advocating the smart people reproduce more, which probably isn't a real popular POV in certain corners around here. :hide:

[seabeyond]

113. has anyone, anywhere in this thread, suggested censorship

it seems like if anyone even discusses this and other issues, they are accused of DEMANDING censorship or law to make illegal.

a person can express their opinion for no other reason than they dont like it.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Yeah, actually.

I noticed it specifically because they said "it's not about censorship", and then followed with:

"It's a question of community standards and what kinds of discourse are allowed in the public sphere."


So what is the precise, qualitative difference between "censorship" and "disallowing discourse in the public sphere"?

Can people have an opinion? Yeah. And MY opinion is, why can't they change the friggin' channel? All these 'debates' aren't predicated upon "I'm watching it and someone is FORCING ME TO WATCH IT", they are predicated on "I'm watching it, I'm perfectly capable of changing the channel or turning the tv off, but really I don't want YOU watching it, either."

[Scuba]

136. Bingo.

[Art_from_Ark]

181. Having read the graffiti in an abandoned building back in 1965,

I would say that there was no obsession with sex back then. Nope. None. Whatsoever. Except for the occasional "For a good time, call 555-5555", and "Zelda X. is a XXXX" and graphic drawings of various body parts (some of which I didn't know existed back then), and generous usage of the "F" word in the same sentences with the "P" word and the "A" word and the "D" word. But other than that, it was pretty much family-oriented graffiti. :rofl:

[DutchLiberal]

77. Teens don't need any "fuel" to be obsessed with sex. They always have been; always will.

It's called 'nature'.

[Warren DeMontague]

269. Every young generation thinks it's the first to discover sex

and every older generation thinks it's the first to discover doily-clutching, aghast moral horror.

At least, that's what my grandmother, the ex-flapper, told me as she was lecturing me about decorum.

[leveymg]

15. It's not the sexual subject matter that's objectionable - it's just mean spirited and not funny.

The problem is that it takes more talent and intelligence to be funny than to be crude. There's only so much talent and intelligence to go around, but a lot of dead air time to fill on 300 channels.

[hifiguy]

98. Spot on.

It's the lack of any subtletly or cleverness that makes some of this stuff so jarring. And some of it raises my eyebrows, and I am a guy in my mid-50s who thinks that South Park and Aqua Teen Hunger Force (two shows not noted for anything resembling subtlely) are often hysterically LOL funny and who grew up with the sometimes appallingly tastless - and funny - National Lampoon. Crudeness can be really, REALLY funny or just plain crude and stupid/offensive. Cleverness is what makes all the difference between the two. A "wiener joke" for its own sake just ain't that funny. "Uncle Fucker" on the other hand still makes me laugh so hard my sides hurt.

[Withywindle]

222. I'm gonna have "Uncle Fucker" stuck in my head all day now, thanks!

:hi:


From a 40-something Gen X'er who is definitely not uncomfortable with either my elders' or my juniors' 'openness.' Well, unless it's about grossly detailed medical/surgical stuff. That is definitely something that people ought to keep to themselves unless asked (especially over meals, AUUGHH!) Sex jokes? Slide right off me.

[brooklynite]

16. How do you feel about ads for allergy medication?

ED and allergies are both physiological conditions. Having your "hair blown back" or having a clear head and elimination of sneezing are, arguably, physiological improvements. Why are you less comfortable talking about one of them?

[Syrinx]

19. I'm not uncomfortable with that stuff

But I might be uncomfortable with shock replacing wit.

[seabeyond]

37. when my 8 and 10 yr old were constanting bombarded with need a bigger penis to make a woman happy

while watching the history channel, i was concerned what they would get from that, be conditioned with. so, at 8 and 10 we addressed ads purposes on the continual feeding males this crap in our society today.

you know, a commercial with bob in an elevator fuckin a blonde on the way up, and then fuckin a brunette on the way down.

[Odin2005]

127. ED is what used to be called "getting older".

[jberryhill]

155. Yeah, so was poverty

I love it when people think that older folks don't "deserve sex" or something.

Starving is what used to be called 'being poor' too, but this notion that older people need to just scratch sex off of the list is a little odd.

[Lasher]

252. I feel comfortable talking about sinus congestion with my grandmother.

Not so much my last blue steel erection.

[Orrex]

17. Wait. You watch IFC and are offended by suggestive ads?

For one thing, I'm more offended by the presence of ads on IFC than I am by the PG-13 content of those ads. It was a better network years ago when it didn't interrupt its programing to hawk products.

For another, IFC runs uncut films, so if you're already watching a channel that doesn't shy away from saying "fuck" and showing naughty parts, it doesn't make sense to complain that the commercials are more risque than what you'll see on Nickelodeon.

"Look at all these gamblers," complained the man in the casino.

[Syrinx]

20. you clearly have issues with reading comprehension

[Orrex]

22. Apparently you have issues with people who disagree with you.

Aside from this disclaimer:

We should have the right to be dirty. But does every fucking thing in existence have to be dirty? Or the dirtiest it can be?

your post was a rant against the rampant filthiness in popular culture. Well boo hoo hoo.

"Every fucking thing in existence?" Really? Is that how you perceive the culture? If that's the case, then you'd better turn off the tv altogether, or else watch Nickelodeon as I recommended.

Perhaps you could have selected a channel less likely to offend your sensibilities? Did you truly not expect IFC to act like IFC when you switched to it? What sort of commercials were you expecting? I've watched Bad Lieutenant on that channel, for pity's sake. After you've seen that film, a joke about semen somehow isn't quite as horrifying.

[Syrinx]

okay dear

[Orrex]

52. I should warn you that TV Land is running an Andy Griffith marathon

Wouldn't want you to run afoul of ribaldry as you scan the dial in search of vanilla.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. ***

:spray:

[Demit]

24. I think the poster is talking about the tastlessness, not the language.

Characterizing somebody spraying the walls with semen as merely 'suggestive' or 'risqué' misses his point. Which is that it is crude.

There are lots of bodily functions that are natural & normal. They're things we go into a separate room to do, away from other people. We don't discuss them at the dinner table. Risqué is fine, in its place, but crudeness is adolescent.

[Orrex]

54. Well, there is nothing new under the sun

Such imagery in entertainment is at least many decades old, and it's a fantasy to imagine that the entertainers of yesteryear wouldn't have embraced the same bawdiness as today's programming, if they'd been given half a chance.

By the way, what exactly is "the place" for risqué?

[Demit]

59. Perhaps you, who are funnier than I can realize, are putting me on?

I can't list the places any more than you can list the ways to be funny. Being successfully risqué means having a keen sense of when it's appropriate. It's situational.

And it has a lightness, always a lightness. Crudeness is heavy and obvious. Risqué respects the listener's intelligence; it's indirect, and leaves it to the listener to connect the dots. Crudeness hits you over the head. It equates shocking you with being funny.

Entertainers always knew when blue humor was appropriate (Redd Foxx was famous for it, but he couldn't employ it on 'Sanford & Son' and he was still funny). They always embraced it. But even today they know the venue to do it in, & they know what audience they'll be getting for it. The audiences also know, and that's why they go.

[Orrex]

134. So we're basically arguing for the same thing

Entertainers always knew when blue humor was appropriate (Redd Foxx was famous for it, but he couldn't employ it on 'Sanford & Son' and he was still funny)

So it's a matter of context and venue? Glad to see that we're on the same page. At issue was the presence of bawdy humor on IFC, a channel that famously shows films intact without editing for nudity or profanity. I don't see how someone can tune into that channel and then express surprise when faced with non-kid-friendly programming.

Risqué has a lightness, always a lightness. Crudeness is heavy and obvious. Risqué respects the listener's intelligence; it's indirect, and leaves it to the listener to connect the dots. Crudeness hits you over the head. It equates shocking you with being funny.

No, that's simply an elitist viewpoint that enshrines one's preferred mode of humor as more intelligent or sophisticated than humor that one doesn't find appealing.

The viewer who abhors bawdiness has no shortage of channels from which to choose, if indeed naughty humor is so dangerously offensive. But when the viewer actively seeks out a channel that showcases "crude" comedy, then there's little room to complain about it after the fact.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

65. bawdiness has always been with us...it's the ubiquity of media that

makes it so intrusive now.

If only people didn't like to screw so much, it wouldn't find its way into every fucking thing! And we wouldn't be so damned overpopulated, either!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

21. thank you. +1 -nt

[undeterred]

23. Parents use the f-word in front of their 2 and 3 and 4 year old children

nowadays. I don't have children, and I never heard that word from either of my parents. I just presumed that somewhere along the way the world changed. I didn't get the memo.

[WinkyDink]

191. Oh, I got the memo. It said: "60? Yeah, you're a non-person now."

[vim876]

203. Clearly, they'll all grow up to be degenerates. nt

[jberryhill]

25. Agree - More Tampon, Toilet Paper and Hemorrhoid Remedy Ads

I can't quite wrap my head around your use of the term "dirty".

Do you know what toilet paper is used for? Yet it has been advertised on television for decades, along with tampons, and hemorrhoid remedies.

Sex is much more clean, and much more fun, than the subject of how best to remove shit from the margin of your asshole.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eShirl]

31. it's dirty because someone has to clean those walls eventually

[Demit]

39. That's exactly the point. We all know what TP is used for. We don't have to hear

someone in an ad spell it out. Like the woman who wants to talk about how soft this brand is, or how pretty the scent...but first has to voice the reference that tp is used for "you know." Bleeh. Not necessary to draw us a picture.

I don't understand the descent into crudeness. Except that it's usually young people in ad agencies creating the ads, and young people always think their generation discovered everything. And they always want to go further than anyone has done before, mistaking that for progress, and daring. When all it is is crudeness.

[jberryhill]

80. But I don't care how soft or nice smelling toilet paper is

I want to know how well it does the Star Trek thing - orbiting Uranus and pIcking off Klingons.

[blondeatlast]

89. If a TP company ran that ad, I'd so buy that TP.

I LOLed!

[PCIntern]

137. Hadn't heard that one before...

You are one insane MFER! Funny...but insane! LOL...

}(

[eridani]

150. No, he's just old. That one's been around since the mid 70s at least

But all fresh and new if you haven't heard it for more. I was on the bus a couple of years ago next to a 10 year old all excited about this hilarious new comedian Tom Lehrer. He was more than a bit surprised when I sang a few bars of The Elements Song.

[jberryhill]

157. Well, when consider that Star Trek went off the air in, what, 1969?

I had a weird conversation with my 17 year old son the other day. He sure as heck knows what "Beam me up, Scotty" means, but while he had figured out the contextual use of "drinking the Kool-Aid", he thought it was simply a reference to people who were still in Kindergarten and drank that stuff.

Imagine explaining what the meaning and origin of "drinking the Kool-Aid" means in a few sentences or less.

[Art_from_Ark]

179. Actually, the original Star Trek stuck around in syndication for a LONG time

It might still be, for all I know.

[jberryhill]

202. I think there was an episode where they got trapped in UHF for years

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Not only that...

but GET OFF MY LAWN!

[H2O Man]

30. There are two factors involved:

The first is that our culture, in general, has an unhealthy approach to sexuality. The second is that marketing of products frequently reflects diseased thinking. That makes for a rather unattractive combination.

[Donnachaidh]

35. thank you -- nailed it once again n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Really? Vibrators and condoms reflect 'diseased thinking'?

See, I think the two factors involved here are the tv's on/off switch, and the channel changer.

[H2O Man]

96. Oh, please.

What a weak attempt to twist what I said to fit your needs. Grow up.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Your words: "marketing of products frequently reflects diseased thinking."

Okay, so which products, then? Since vibrators and condoms were mentioned in the OP, but apparently aren't what you're talking about. So, which products?

Think you can answer that quite simple question, preferably without more personal insults? (i.e. "grow up")


Not that I mind being aged in reverse. Not at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBwWpBxu32g

[H2O Man]

104. Sad.

Really -- I have no idea who you are; hence, I will accept on face value the rather funny example of concrete thinking.

I want you to really, really think about this: My comment is clearly on marketing, not on the product. I'm not sure how to make that more clear to you. Nor am I sure I want to.

[Warren DeMontague]

111. I'm sorry. I guess I just still think actual words mean actual things.

If a statement seems like it could use further elucidation, I'm going to ask for it.

I guess your point was to toss out an authoritative-sounding yet ultimately meaningless mishmash about "diseased thinking" and then not get called on it.

I am sorry I make you sad, though. :cry:

[H2O Man]

116. Clown.

You made me laugh.

I'm more than happy to discuss and debate the meaning of words with you. More, if you care to discuss if the marketing techniques used in this country represent diseased thinking, as I believe, or healthy thinking, as you appear to, we can do that, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

119. I think "diseased thinking" is a meaningless phrase.

I'm not going to accept any dichotomy between diseased/healthy thinking, much less that either applies to marketing techniques in this country, until you define what it is you mean.

[H2O Man]

121. Wonderful.

As I noted earlier, you exhibit concrete thinking, which is distinct from diseased thinking. Hence, I'm more than willing to take you at your word about why the phase "diseased thinking" has you so very upset.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. It doesn't have me upset. I just don't think it means anything.

If it does mean anything, I'm skeptical you can explain what it means in a paragraph or less.

[H2O Man]

123. Yes, it surely does.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Surely?

[H2O Man]

126. Surely.

Years ago, I was employed in a non-thinking job. A co-worker loved commercials. Just loved them. He used to act out his favorites. Marketing depends upon such people, I suppose. Was he an unhealthy thinker? No, I think not. A concrete thinker? Definitely. So much so that it severely limited our ability to have meaningful conversations.

[Warren DeMontague]

164. So we can have a meaningful conversation as long as you don't have to explain what you mean?

I'm sorry, but "diseased thinking" isn't merely not-quite-concrete, it's so mushy it's meaningless. I don't think I'm a concrete thinker, I don't think I'm a rebar thinker, I don't think I'm a steel girder thinker, but I also don't think I'm a tapioca and oatmeal thinker, either.

Maybe you could just give me an example of this 'diseased thinking' as it pertains to ads that may or may not contain vibrators and condoms and erection pills.

I mean, to me personally, the phrase "diseased thinking" either sounds like the sort of serious-sounding but ultimately meaningless gobbledygook someone would intone at a 12 step meeting, to have a room full of folks in folding chairs nod in solemn, unchallenging assent with its inherent, self-evident wisdom...

...or it sounds awfully strong and terrible- like, okay, Jeffrey Dahmer. Believing you can kill people, stick their parts in a fridge and build a sex zombie out of them, yes, that is "diseased thinking". But for folks buying a vibrator or some erection pills because of a silly ad? Seems a little harsh.

[H2O Man]

200. Sure.

I'll give you one example. When my oldest son was a wee little child, and we would pass a McDonald's, he would get excited. He didn't like the food they served. But even a toddler is impacted by the commercials he/she is exposed to on television.

Another wider group of commercials would be those that offer medicines that will cure all of the symptoms of being human. Of course, a tiny percentage of people taking those medicines will die of heart failure, internal bleeding, and on and on.

A third example would be the political commercials that present people such as a Sarah Palin as a leader, or that attempt to convince the public that there are huge differences between corporate clone A and B.

In Jerry Mander's book, "In the Absence of the Sacred," he devotes a chapter to the career of Ronald Reagan. Reagan's commercials on "Death Valley Days" went a long way in convincing a generation that he was a solid cowboy, honest as they come.

These are a few examples of diseased thinking. I take them quite seriously. I do not take you seriously, however. Your silly rant about condoms etc is enough to warrent dismissing you as a person worthy talking to in a meaningful way. For many years, for example, I was on the board of directors of STAP, which provided services including free condoms to people in 13 counties in upstate NY. As I social worker, I coordinated with Planned Parenthood, to provide free condoms to populations that were as unlikely to get them at PP as from the drug store. Sex is a wonderful thing, I am am all in favor of people doing/using whatever suits them.

This is surely beyond your level of understanding, though.

[Warren DeMontague]

211. Obviously, you can't manage a discussion without personal attacks and cheap shots.

Why that makes me, and not you, "silly", is beyond me. I merely asked for a further explanation of your terms, and you proceeded to have a mini temper tantrum over it. Again, not sure why that makes me stupid and/or silly. But hey, whatever, pal.

I agree we're over-medicated, I agree Sarah Palin sucks, and I also agree that McDonald's directs their crap advertising towards kids. In case you didn't know, they have this new thing now called a DVR that lets you- get this- fast forward past commercials.

PS. It's spelled "warrant"

- signed, the stupid guy with the low level of understanding.

[H2O Man]

219. We are not

on a level where we are "pals."

I made a comment, in response to the OP, which three people commented on. Two understood my point, without any difficulty. You either were incapable of understanding it, confused, or purposely attempting to stir shit for some reason, exclusively of significance to you.

If, after your first error-filled reaction to my insightful and accurate comment, you had said, "Oh, okay, I didn't understand what you were saying," our little discussion would have been different. I would have considered taking pity on you, and maybe even have given you a silver dollar. But, no.

Your comment about the DVR which can fast-forward commercials indicates that, even if you find commercials entertaining -- as did my former co-worker -- you were at very least aware that other people do not. But, again, no.

More, even you are willing to admit that some commercials -- by no coincidence, the ones I listed -- have the potential to offend. Thus, the question remains: why did you decide to try to give so nice a person as me a hard time, for saying something that, when we remove the twists you incorrectly attempted to knot it into, is something that you know is true? Is that a question that you are able to answer, even to yourself?

In terms of this DVR bit, I do not need one. I'm not a huge consumer of television. I primarily have it to watch professional boxing. PPV, HBO, and Showtime are commercial-free. ESPN's FNFs do have commercials, but usually my son and I are busy discussing the fight business, and ignore them. (I will admit, however, that when other family members watch tv, I find certain insurance commercials with a clown named "Flo" mildly annoying.)

"Temper tantrum"? Please. You lack the ability to do anything beyond giving me a good chuckle. I assume you are simply looking to stir shit, and picked my post for your target. Even if you had disagreed with what I actually posted, it would make no difference -- for I do not know you, any more than you know me. And I'm confident that we share a complete lack of interest in changing that. It's just that you want to get the last say here.

[Warren DeMontague]

221. No, my original question was, essentially, what is 'diseased thinking'

and how does it pertain to commercials for and/or the marketing of condoms, vibrators, or the other items referenced in the OP?

Despite a great deal of huffing and puffing over my assorted perceived character shortcomings and the lack of a personal relationship between us (believe it not, I'm a 'nice person', too) you STILL haven't answered that question. Nor, at this point, do I expect you to.

For what it's worth, personally I find two grown men in a boxing ring beating each other senseless far more offensive than bawdy vibrator ads, inane penis enlargement pills, or sperm jokes. But if everyone's a consenting adult; again, not my thing but I'm not going to come on DU to complain about it, either.

If you want to get the last word here, go for it; I admit I may have misunderstood the point of this thread- apparently it's intended as a zone for some crotchety folks to wax irritated about the sexual degeneracy of modern society (not to mention, "these kids today") without having to endure contrary or even not-entirely-agreeing opinions. :shrug:

[H2O Man]

237. Now you have crossed

a line.Yet, I understand. I do.

I spent decades working in the field of mental health. So, when a person says, "I do not like boxing" (or, similarly, "I dislike the Yankees"), I understand that they are in denial. They simply refuse to explore their best potential. Often, professional help gets results. Other times, not.

Diseased thinking, huh? Let's see. On Sunday, I went for a walk in a field where I spent time as a child. Back in time, it was an area where people on my mother's side of the family had lived. It's a quiet place -- the only noises I could hear were the river, geese, and other birds. The area's name today is a old word, or phrase actually, translating to "the voice of the sining Water." During the part of the Revolutionary War known as the Clinton-Sullivan Campaign, soldiers came through, looking for Mohawk warriors. None were here, so the soldiers satisfied their blood-lust by killing women, children, and infants.

In the field where I walked, a soldier's diary told of making a sport of stabbing infants with a bayonet, and holding them up, to see which one would wiggle the longest. He noted that they also had fun in multilating the women -- cutting off breasts and vaginas.

I'm confident that both you and I would agree this is sick behavior, stemming from diseased thinking. Now, some people might view it as ancient history; when I walk that field, it is living history. And what happened then is absolutely connected to now: for societies, just like individuals, cannot overcome such diseased thinking and behaviors, unless they confront it. Not deny it, or pretend it was not and is not real.

In the early 1970s, I attended a large "canoe regatta" named after Clinton. My little sister and her boyfriend were there. A group of gentlemen who could be easily identified as a "motorcycle gang" was also at the fair. One fellow said, loudly, "Hey, look at that stupid nigger walking with the white chick!" My future brother-in-law was offended, and said, "Who the fuck said that?" The fellow who did opened his vest, showing a hand gun, and said, "I did. Why?"

In the summer of 1998, my nephew was attacked by a similar gang, in a dark field used as a parking lot for the regatta/fair. He had simply been there to enjoy himself, and spend time with his girlfriend. I remember how it felt when doctors at the second hospital he had been rushed to said that my nephew might die.

I also remember a friend of our extended family saying, later that week, "Yeah, but you have to expect this type of thing if you are black." That was almost an exact quote from one of the thugs, when he was dogging my nephew earlier in the evening of the assault. And certainly, there is a history of violence against black people in this country, including the sick actions of the diseased thinking that led to castrating black men and raping black women.

That same summer, a young man named Matthew Shepard was killed by the sick actions of diseased minds, in a brutal hate crime. It is easier for society to blame the thugs, then forget about the incident, than to confront the diseased thinking that still saturates our society in terms of discriminating against gay and lesbian people. As long as the human right to marry the person you love is denied to any group, we have diseased thinking as a culture.

The levels of rape -- including the sexual abuse of children and youth -- are measures of the diseased thinking in our society. Now, let's look briefly at some commercials. And, if possible, try to look at them not from the comfort of your living room, but from that field. More, to see that commercials are not limited to 30 and 60 second spots, but include programming that attempts to instill specific thought patterns, and/or sell products.

How, for example, are women portrayed? Girls? The Brooke Shields syndrome. Thin is eclusively beautiful. Is that healthy thinking, or diseased thinking?

Penis enlargement pills? Are these products geared to help people enjoy a satisfying life? Or attempts by vultures to capitalize off the insecurities of a vulnerable group of people?

Yeah, I absolutely am convinced there is diseased thinking in America. And I think that advertising plays a role. It has nothing to do with the "these kids these days" nonsense that you are trying, without success, to apply to my way of thinking. That's just more of your tactic of attempting to twist what I have clearly said.

[seabeyond]

238. thank you h2o for putting the time into spelling it out more clearly. you are

right on.

[Warren DeMontague]

239. I'm gonna field this.

For one, you have listed some extremely horrible stuff. Especially for the incident involving your nephew, you have my sympathy. All of it- the horror, the abuse, the crushing, heartbreaking weight of history~ I agree. We can't, nor should we try to, paper over or ignore the past. I come from a family that had people die in concentration camps. "We must never forget" are not just words, to me.

But what you haven't done, here- really, you haven't- is drawn any kind of a cogent connection between this diseased inhumanity man has shown and continues to show, to man- and the semen jokes or vibrator ads on IFC that the OP finds distasteful. Yes, certainly thin is promoted in this society; but if you go to Disneyland or the mall of America, you might notice that despite the relentless promotion of the advertising industry, Americans are getting fatter, not thinner. Certainly, there are a few posters here who equate open expressions of sex and sexuality between adults with rape and child abuse, but it's also worth noting that those things were around well before Trojan put ads on tv, and countries with strict censorship and sexual repression also have 'high rates' of these behaviors. There probably aren't many ads for raunchy Gen X comedy troupes playing in The Vatican, yet that hasn't prevented a culture of protecting and enabling child abusers to take root there.

Also, Brooke Shields is almost old enough to start doing ads for AARP. You may want to find a more current example.

Really- and I say this only because you brought it up- it would be much easier- and far more logically coherent- to draw a connection between the ugly history of violent human brutality and boxing, than it would to connect it to Bob the smiling Ezyte guy.

As for the Yankees.. Pffft. Fat chance. Even if I did like New York (and, by extension, The East Coast) I still wouldn't like that ball team. I'm from Chicago, originally. Not gonna happen.

[H2O Man]

240. I do not take

responsibility for what other people say on this thread, or anywhere else. Nor would I expect to take credit for anything that other people say that you might approve of. I initially responded to the OP by pointing out the two dynamics that I believe play a significant role in the commercials being discussed. The majority of people who read it and responded understood what I said.

You alone either did not understand what I said, or pretended not to. I have no way of knowing which of the two it was, nor any interest in knowing. But I do know that if I post something about a book, and you insist that I'm talking about a bike, that bike only exists in your mind. It makes no difference if you are confused or purposely attempting to distort what I say about the book: the bike is still in your head.

I've never been to Disneyland. I have had the opportunity to, several times. But it isn't anything that interests me. I'm not "offended" by Disneyland, any more than I am by various commercials on television. Disneyland and commercials do not rate high enough; I am offended by the types of things I detailed in my last post on this thread.

The Brooke Shields example is an important one, for a variety of reasons. But I doubt that you are aware of these, based upon your comment. However, if "current/instant" is vital to you, perhaps you should learn a bit more on the issue of the growing problems with eating disorders among young people in our culture. But perhaps it is not the type of thing you have any desire to learn about. After all, there are those darned fat people in the mall.

Your connecting the sport of boxing with violence is, I suspect, something that you actually believe. It is, of course, rooted in ignorance. Boxers are, as a group, the most gentle people I have ever known. Those associated with violence outside the sport are the exception, for the Great Sport teaches a high degree of self-discipline. And in the old days -- long before Brooke Shields -- I used to visit Chicago frequently, in association with boxing.

[Warren DeMontague]

242. I count two people who said they understood exactly what you meant

and another, along with myself, who thought it could use some further elucidation.

That means your assertions; 1)culture has an unhealthy approach to sexuality and 2)marketing of these products reflects diseased thinking - right? are batting .500;

Not bad, even for a Yankee, but I'm not sure if that qualifies as "the majority of people".

[H2O Man]

246. Math is

not your thing, eh?

[Warren DeMontague]

247. Okay, three.

But on any thread pertaining to sexuality in the media and/or culture, seabeyond is kind of a gimme. :hi:

[seabeyond]

254. actually, i though he was talking from his heart and i didnt want someone to ignore

all the time and effort with a simple dismissal

i am simply saying cause, you brought me in for.... dismissal.

i guess i can say, that your position pertaining to sexuality is a given, also

[Warren DeMontague]

256. I think, if you read back up the thread, I haven't been engaging in dismissal, simple or otherwise.

And I'm speaking from the heart, too. My heart aches for the oppressive weight of all the terrible things that human beings have done to each other throughout history. I feel for his relatives who have experienced racist violence just as I feel for mine who were shipped in rail cars to Treblinka. Bergen-Belsen. Auschwitz.

But it's another thing entirely, to go, "here are these horrible awful things that people have done to each other and because of it, how can you be so blase about the vibrator ads"?

They just don't have anything to do with each other. They. Just. Don't.

I'm not dismissing you, either, I actually thought you would appreciate the acknowledgment. That's why I waved.



your position pertaining to sexuality is a given, also

I'm not as flexible as I used to be, but, really, there is more than one.

[seabeyond]

258. good to hear

truly, good to hear. i figured, too. but sometimes i like to make my own acknowledgment to a post someone takes the time to make, both circumstances, h2o and here, you.

"here are these horrible awful things that people have done to each other and because of it, how can you be so blase about the vibrator ads"?

"I'm not as flexible as I used to be, but, really, there is more than one."

i think this is the thing. it really is not about the vibrator per se, and i too have a wider position on all this that we dont share on du, with our one sentence comments. i had a poster the other day jump on a thread and because it had the word porn, expected, almost demanded i participate on the thread. i had no interest because it had nothing to do with the issues i have. it was truly just about freedom of speech (which is not my argument) and not a deeper issue. another poster calls out a newbie to me to demand i address his sexism. another poster that assumes he knows my agenda. but reality, just another poster that only knows the surface.

it isn't about a vibrator. it isn't about one ad. it is not about shielding our kids. it is bring trash, crude, vulgar as a norm for all of us to have to live. a society that encourages all of us to get in the gutter and wallow. the continual projecting of the least of who we are to be held up as an expectation. as one has the right to be a part of that world, we have moved into a position where as a society we are demanding we ALL be a part of that world.

and that, is just a mere iota of the whole to my issue with this. it is an octopus of many arms that reach out in many ways. so our little one liners really dont cut it in experiencing the whole of perspective

i will remember this with you. i doubt we will ever be in sync with this subject. we see it differently. cause and effect, differently.

[Warren DeMontague]

262. And yet our esteemed H2Oman thinks boxing is an example of noble humanity at its finest.

See, I think men beating the crap out of each other in a ring, often to the point of lifelong brain damage, I think THAT is a far better example of "trash, crude, vulgar" behavior infiltrating the society we all have to live in, than vibrators and erection pills.

Maybe the thing we don't see eye-to-eye on- and never will- is I DON'T see sex, human sexuality, even sperm jokes and vibrator ads, as being 'in the gutter'. Or being crude, or trashy. I think it's well past time that we lighten up on the subject of sex. People do it, people like it, people shouldn't be ashamed of it. It's part of our heritage as humans. Shit, have you ever been to the primate house in the zoo? Think chimps are uptight about sex? Nope.

[themadstork]

167. Would you prefer fuzzy thinking? Vague thinking?

[H2O Man]

195. I have no preference

in the context of that person's thinking. It is of no significance to me.

[themadstork]

165. Not really a meaningless phrase.

As someone with severe mental diseases I can tell you diseased thinking is very much a thing.

But in the context of TV ads? Totally inane. Here's the thinking the marketing of ads reflect: BUY MY SHIT, AND BUY IT NOW.

This thread is a riot. Everybody is so tasteless, everybody is so bawdy! Our delicate sensibilities: the advertisements offendeth!

[nadinbrzezinski]

206. I got exactly what you mean and I agree

[Upton]

36. You think sex is dirty?

Well, that's the root of your problem right there..

Btw, there is such a thing as a remote you know..

[eowyn_of_rohan]

43. - 1

:eyes:

[Keith Bee]

44. And what channel would you have the OP select?

The crud is everywhere.

[Upton]

50. How about Pat Robertson's CBN..

or some other religious network? Though I'm not a watcher, I'm fairly sure there would be none of that horrid "crud" that would offend those with puritan like sensibilities..

[Ninjaneer]

58. + 1

:hi:

[Lorien]

67. I think that the problem is that the MSM wants us to believe that sex is "dirty"

and something that we should giggle about like six year olds instead of accepting it as a natural part of adult human behavior.

[hifiguy]

102. Your post reminds me of a wonderful quote:

"In America sex is an obsession. In the rest of the world it is a fact." - Marlene Dietrich

[Teaser]

210. only if it's done right

.

[msanthrope]

38. Should we get off your lawn, too???

IFC???

Look, TNT runs Matlock reruns.....

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. ROFL

:thumbsup:

"Kids these days!"
- Socrates

[kickysnana]

51. I have to confess I was cheering a little for the lady who destroyed piss Jesus..

I guess I have reached my limit too. Do we have to endure bad art to prove we support free speech?

TV commercials are a form of art and run the gamut from amazing too pure crap. But for TV thank goodness for remotes and 1000 channels, on demand and TVO (is that still available) I am old I don't keep up.

[ThatsMyBarack]

55. Here's what I hate:

Ads for Zestra on MeTV and MeToo (in Chicago). They used to treat us to "vintage" ads during commercial breaks, but I think they are phasing those out in favor of current SLEAZY ads to pay bills! :thumbsdown:

[Vinnie From Indy]

60. LOL!

"the great show "Freaks And Geeks." That is a show I really relate to because of my age and stuff. I think it is a really realistic show. I thought it would be something my mom could relate to."

This has got to be one of the funniest lines on DU for the week. Paging Sigmund Freud!

For a guy that is so concerned with "dirtiness" it is mildly amusing the the word "fuck" seems to be one of his favorite words.

[On the Road]

62. I Agree with You

It's not a question of censorship. It's a question of community standards and what kinds of discourse are allowed in the public sphere. Broadcast regulations used to be much too restrictive. Now they seem to have been reduced to nothing more than banning Carlin's seven words and full frontal nudity.

Presumably, the media goes ahead because they get more viewers and more advertising. There is a sizable minority who are offended, but it's not fashionable to complain. People are now more afraid of being seen as puritanical than licentious.

It also gives religious and socially conservative people reason to think that they are being ignored and marginalized. And in this way at least, there is some basis for that.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. "It's not a question of censorship. It's a question of community standards

and what kinds of discourse are allowed in the public sphere."


Um, that's censorship.

[On the Road]

131. No

Censorship is suppression. The OP was discussing segregating certain types of speech and advertising so that those who want that kind of speech can see or hear them.

A perfect example is selling adult magazines in convenience stores. Rather than put the T&A on full public display, they are often carried in racks behind the counter where only the title is on display. It is unobtrusive and effective without censoring the publishers. It makes the question of censoring the magazines moot.

Virtually everyone approves of some types of segregation and censorship. The questions are the terms, conditions, media, and timing.

[snooper2]

63. I blame it on Eminem

:rofl:

[olegramps]

64. The clever advertisers are only preying on the country's puritanical sexual attitudes.

They know that many will be shocked into paying close attention to their crude message. The cruder the better. Its Shock Doctrine.

[seabeyond]

66. or more likely on the adolescent sexually obsessed culture. we seem to be in extremes... nt

[Snoutport]

69. I hate watching TV with my mom for that very same reason!!!

[DutchLiberal]

71. Usually, when a person starts with "I'm no prude, but....", he/she's a prude. You're no exception.

American mainstream television is ridiculously prudish. Swearwords are buzzed ("bleep!"), sex is never shown, breasts are visually blocked if they appear. Heck, even when somebody 'gives the finger', that's blurred out. I once even saw a show where a *drawing* of a tit was blurred.

I once saw an American actress as a guest on a Dutch tv show. She accidentally said "the f-word" and then started to apologize to the host. He said: "that's no problem, you can say that on Dutch tv" and then he said it himself. The actress started to laugh hysterically and scream the "f-word" several times, as if she was a child being released from a repressive upbringing. I vividly remember that.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

130. So breasts are not blocked out on European tv but penises are?

[DutchLiberal]

184. Nope, none of them are blocked. At least not in The Netherlands and Belgium.

Can't say for sure how it is in other countries, though.

[Ron Green]

73. It's not about prudery, it's about marketing.

And a careful reading of this thread shows that some people get it. "Censorship" is not the issue so much as a kind of giggling, warped sensibility not only about sex, but about civilized behavior.

[justiceischeap]

76. I'm not a prude but... I get embarrassed when I'm watching TV w/my folks and sex happens

It's just not something you want to do with the folks around, even if it is TV advertising/films/etc.

Just like I want to believe my parents had sex exactly once. :)

Seriously, I think the airwaves are being saturated by sexuality because its been suppressed for so long in the States. When you watch UK tv and see boobs and butts and stuff and then people get riled here about that, you gotta wonder why we're so ashamed of sex, sexuality and the human body.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

143. Do you see penises on British TV?

[krabigirl]

78. I don't know.. I turned off my tv years ago.

[Kerrytravelers]

79. omg. I *hate* watching tv with my 71 year-old dad and having one of the boner pill ads play.

My poor dad gets so embarrassed. And thats *always* when he can't get the remote to work. :blush:

[ecstatic]

82. There's an extenze commercial where the lady sounds just like Sarah Palin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMoqXi21uuk

[Warren DeMontague]

83. Meh. I'm glad this country is less uptight about sex than it used to be.

My 70-something Mom agrees.

[leftstreet]

90. The ads would indicate it's not about "uptight," but more about satisfaction

:shrug:

Why would there be a market for all this crap if people were managing their sex lives just fine?

Are there many ads for products that help you eat? Could you sell a pill that would stimulate your appetite for chocolate chip cookies?

[Warren DeMontague]

93. You think vibrators are only for people who aren't sexually satisfied otherwise?

How about condoms?

Look, the American public is in shitty health, I'll grant you that- and it probably contributes to a lot of things, including Bob Dole not being able to get it up.

But the prevalence of sex-related ads has to do with the importance many people put on a satisfying sex life.

That never seems to go away--- and neither does the desire on the part of some people to stamp that out of existence. :shrug:

[leftstreet]

132. I see what you're saying

I think. A percentage of the market's looking for those things, but cultural attitudes keep them hidden.

It'd be interesting (if not fun for discussion forums) if vibrators & condoms had market checkout shelving right next to candy bars and rain ponchos.

:-)

[vim876]

204. Antidepressants.

They kill sex drive, and we're prescribing them in huge numbers. (For the record, that's just a statement of fact, not a value judgment. Antidepressants saved my life.) Not shocked that we need more ED pills.

[Marr]

92. Eventually, commercials will be 30 seconds of hardcore porn with a logo in the corner.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. Probably 4-7 minutes would be more effective

statistically.

[Marr]

101. Then most guys need to practice more.

Slackers.

[seabeyond]

105. lol

as if this wasnt the obvious answer. ah ha

[JVS]

271. The logo will be placed over the points of penetration, like in censored porn.

[Initech]

108. Those Trojan vibrator commercials crack me up.

For two reasons:

1. The one in the office would get people fired immediately if they tried to order vibrators from a work computer.

2. Who gives a vibrator as a gift?

[chrisa]

161. Merry Christmas!

Now let's open up the Secret Santa office party gifts! :)

[BlueIris]

112. Woah. Just when I was thinking of getting IFC. nt

[Odin2005]

120. I HATE those comercials. If that makes me a prude, so be it.

[pipi_k]

128. I know I'm a prude...

and I find them embarrassing.

And I'm glad I don't have small children who will, at some point, want to know what all that stuff is about. Really...I don't envy parents the task of having to explain what ED is...or tell a bit of a lie until the kids get old enough to know what's what.

[butterfly77]

129. Kick,kick,kick &recommended!

You take the words right out of my mouth!!! I heard or saw something about this "whitest kid you know" I didn't pay much attention. Are you saying the spraying of the semen was part of the show or a commercial? Both are bad as far as I am concerned...

[Maven]

139. I'll take more sex talk and less war talk.

I guess that makes me a DFH!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

144. that's like comparing apples to oranges

[drmeow]

140. Personally I find the vast majority

of marketing to be obscene - even without using sex to sell. Most marketing is about either getting us to buy a product we don't need or getting us to buy a particular branded version of a product with no relation to quality or value - so it uses the most visceral material it can to cause a reaction. It also is a powerful socializing force (whether people like to think it is nor

Fortunately I only watch The Daily Show and The Colbert Report and fast forward past all the commercials.

I was thinking about some of this recently from the perspective of the "all sexuality is acceptable so don't be judgmental" attitude. It seems to have crossed the line from "don't judge my sexual preferences" to "I must be allowed to subject you to my sexual preferences." Not in the sense that everyone needs engage in the same sexual activity but that the person should be allowed to broadcast their sexual preference whenever and however they want. I think that crosses the line at times. For example, I have a friend who has informed me that she is a slave in a master/slave relationship. I could care less what kind of relationship she's in but did I REALLY need to know that. Her need to be an exhibitionist seems to trump my desire not to be a voyeur. In the same way, TV, movies, and advertising's need to appeal to the voyeurs trumps anyone's desire not to be a voyeur. Yes, we can always change the channel or mute it or record and fast forward or not buy the product but my reaction to it all is usually, "oh, please - MUST I be subjected to your juvenile scatological and/or sophomoric humor?" I find most of it to be boring and pathetic.

As for the comments that nudity and swearing are allowed on European TV - they may be allowed but are they really necessary? Does it really advance the plot or make the show funnier or is it just a weak cop out for mediocre writing.

[seabeyond]

142. +1.

i agree with everything you say. including only stewart and colbert and for me, that is only if hubby makes it upstairs adn turns it on. i forget about the tv....

[eowyn_of_rohan]

145. "I must be allowed to subject you to my sexual preferences."

[phone]

[anneboleyn]

176. Amen. Seconded, and Thirded.

[chrisa]

160. I share your experience. I too have had a gigantic TMI attack on my ears.

Talking about sex randomly and casually in conversation? I think it's weird and creepy. Call me a prude if you want. But seriously, when did anyone think it was okay to randomly start having a conversation giving a vivid description of the sex you had sometime somewhere. Congrats, but I really don't want to know.

I had that happen to me, and I was creeped out / wanted to throw up. You know, one of those pictures you can't get out of your head, like Lumberg and Peter's girlfriend on Office Space. :yoiks:

[themadstork]

169. Somebody talking about sex made you want to vomit?

For heaven's sake - why? What is so repulsive about the mere mention of sex?

[DutchLiberal]

188. Oh, the drama!

[themadstork]

168. No one is forcing you to watch this stuff.

And really it's pretty easy to not watch it.

[drmeow]

208. It is hard to avoid

borderline pornographic American Apparel ads when they are plastered on billboards.

[DutchLiberal]

187. Well, if you want to show two people making love, you need to show nudity...

At least, if you want a realistic portrayal. Europeans understand this. They also know that there's nothing wrong with having an (explicit) sex scene in a movie/tv show, because sex is a normal part of human life, and an important part of a relationship. Thus if you have a loving couple in a tv show/movie, sometimes they'll make love --and that involves nudity. If it were an American show, they would cover themselves up with sheets or pillows after they're done with 'the deed'. All these actresses coming out of bed and walking around with those bedsheets held tightly against their bodies... Come on, who behaves like that in real life? It's laughable.

And swearing? Yes, that's often a big part of a character. How a character talks, which words he uses, tells you a lot about the character. An accountant uses different language than a mob boss.

The fact that you question whether or not they're really "necessary" signals to me that you are personally uncomfortable with them and try to put the responsibility for that discomfort on others (tv/movie producers) instead of on yourself.

[drmeow]

213. So no nudity and swearing in

TV and movies, including in Europe, is never, ever gratuitous? Yeah. Right.

As for swearing, I lived in f**king New York for 10 f**king years and peppering every G*d D**ned f**king sentence with a s**tload of swearing gets REALLY f**king boring sometimes.

I watch the Daily Show, for f**ks sake - I don't have a problem with occasional swearing. I also don't have a problem with a mob boss swearing. I don't watch mob movies because of the violence - which I object to exponentially more than the nudity and language.

And thank you so much for your expert analysis of my personality based on such a small exposure. You must be a brilliant psychologist. Is your PhD in clinical, personality, or development? Mine is in Social/Development and your theory is a new one to me.

[seabeyond]

220. damn, you fuckin kick ass.

lmfao

(if you cant tell, going along with the cussing theme, lol)

[drmeow]

223. and don't you f**king forget it

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

224. lol. nt

[DutchLiberal]

230. Hey, you were the one suggesting nudity and swearing is *always* gratuitous. I proved you wrong.

I never said it's never gratuitous. That's something you made up. But, you worded it so well, you even got some easily impressed person to agree with you, even when nothing you said had any substance to it. But I guess that's how it goes on the internet.

Oh, by the way, you watch the Daily Show? That's you're way of "proving" how cool you are with swearing? A show which bleeps out all four-letter words? Awesome, dude! :eyes:

[drmeow]

235. No, you said it necessary

for realism ... that implies not gratuitous.

And this concludes my participation in the worthless and irrelevant discussion. Goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out!

[ZombieHorde]

141. Seems like you are a prude. If the average American was offended by these ads, I don't think they

would be on TV. Trojan doesn't want to piss people off, they want to sell shit. So, seems to me you are more prude than the average American, and Americans are fairly prude.

[drmeow]

207. Thanks for your judgment

and analysis of my personality. Will I be getting a psychology bill for your services?

[ZombieHorde]

212. I use the barter system. I want an amateur sociology report. nt

[drmeow]

214. Sorry, my PhD is in Psychology

not Sociology.

[ZombieHorde]

215. Can't you give yourself a personality test to see how prudish you are? nt

[drmeow]

225. Actually, I don't score

as prudish on personality tests - maybe because I read erotica and am comfortable with my own nudity when it is appropriate. I once sent my brother a copy of Penthouse Forum along with a bunch of lingerie as a care package ... I sent it to him at his fraternity (gave me quite a reputation there). I've been to many a club (back in my clubbing days) which catered to, shall we say, some more fringe sexual preferences (even including a public spanking). Personally my favorite is going to drag shows which are a blast. The difference is that I knew what I was going to see and knew what to expect. In contrast, I really don't want to go to a live production of the musical Cabaret as part of a subscription to "The Broadways Series at (name of local theater)" and be subjected to simulated sex and fellatio created by the actor's shadows just because the bar keeps getting raised higher and higher regarding how much titillation we should be subjected to. The original Cabaret managed to tell a perfectly realistic story (well, at least for a musical - it was more realistic than most musicals) which included WWII era sex outside of marriage, gay sex, drug and alcohol abuse, and abortion without resorting to displays of simulated sex acts, and the simulated sex acts did not add anything to the production. I'm also fed up with what I call the "mandatory tit shot" which is stuck in a movie just to cater to the adolescents and those with adolescent mentalities because otherwise they won't go see what might otherwise be an good movie (because not having a realistic sex scene with nudity in My Big Fat Greek Wedding really made that movie suck and prevented it from being a success).

If being comfortable hanging around with men in corsets and couples in bondage gear and reading erotica and porn but not wanted to see so much sex in movies and on TV makes me a prude than I will wear that badge proudly and counter that you are a voyeur.

[ZombieHorde]

227. Nothing wrong with consensual voyeurism! nt

[seabeyond]

228. no. but the same consideration is not given if a person is not voyeristic.

there seems to be a demand that we all must be, or we are prudes. but that is not the definition of prude.

[ZombieHorde]

229. I wasn't taking this discussion seriously; I see my teasing is anoying others.

I am going to back away now.

[seabeyond]

232. it really is not annoying me.

actually, i think this is a long time coming to this point that i appreciate being able to say out loud.

i cannot watch reality shows, or award shows cause i get embarassed for others. not all people are voyeristic.

so thank you

[drmeow]

234. The problem is that it is not

consensual.

[ZombieHorde]

236. The first time you see the unwanted images, it is not consensual,

but after the first time, you know what is on TV. Most people can choose to not watch TV; some can't because of their occupation, living situation, or TV dependency.

[Quantess]

149. I was thinking similar thoughts this morning in the car, when flipping FM radio channels

All these stupid songs on the radio with over-the-top-sex-lyrics is getting kind of boring.

There's a popular pop/hip hop song with a woman singing "I like it like it c'mon..."
It's catchy. Not a bad song at all. But does she really need to say "S&M"? That's not even witty.

I miss subtlety.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

156. In reading the above, I just wanted to relate an

interesting (to me only, perhaps) conversation I had with my 19 year old daughter. We do, often enough, have the "sex and responsibility" conversation, which, the last time, lead to taking the birth control pill as a way to control her cramping at that time of the month, also her sporadic acne. She elected not to do this, but the conversation turned into how she and her friends see sex, and she informed me that among her friends, the boys and girls, sex was seen as overrated, and something not to rush into, or even experiment with, as according to her, it is quite common, everywhere, and has absolutely no mystery anymore, anything and everything being available on the internet. Kids that sleep around are seen as losers, both the boys and girls, but it was more than that.

It was like when I was growing up, I wanted to be different than my parents, and by turning away from sex, these kids are separating themselves and their generation from the noise of society, if that makes any sense.

I thought this was interesting, as she is a musician and hangs around with musicians, this being so different then when I was young. I grew up in the 70's and the 70's were, well you know what the 70's were.

just my observation - it may be different with different groups of kids.

[seabeyond]

183. this is what i am hearing, what i am seeing, what studies are saying

we adults are saturating the kids with our sex world and they are saying.... enough.

my goal as a parent has been to guide them to their own age appropriate play and journey and stay out of our adult world cause we will really fuck you up, but i want you to have fun and an healthy regard for sex

[Manifestor_of_Light]

158. I grew up in a conspiracy of silence about sex education.

I was a kid in the sixties. I graduated from high school in the early 70s.

I never heard dirty words any worse than "goddamn" or "bastard" or "SOB". My parents were of the generation that fought in World War II. They would have been horrified to hear common four letter words. They thought that anyone who used those words could not express themselves.

My mother would call something a "crock" and I was in college before I found out what the rest of the phrase was.

My mom brought me a tape of the movie "WALL STREET" that she had gotten at a garage sale. This was when my daughter was little. We put it in the machine and at the beginning, Charlie Sheen gets implied oral sex in the back of a limo. Well, my parents freaked out and hollered and yelled because they didn't know how to stop the tape. I was out of the room. So they just turned off the TV. They were horrified.

My child would not have figured out what was going on when she was little.


I had an older sister and no brothers. Never saw my dad's equipment. I was totally baffled about what kind of genitals boys had. I got no useful sex education in high school. I think in the 11th grade they showed us a movie that had a picture of a nude male statue, like Michelangelo's David. Nothing informative in that.

They showed us movies that told us that two virgins having sex in the back seat of a car would get a
sexually transmitted disease, and when they went back to school and walked around it was contagious, like getting a cold from being breathed on. Completely inaccurate. This couple also looked ashamed and horrified. And we got a movie with Ann Landers' crap in it about "Do anything on a date but kissing. Go bowling! Boys only want ONE THING, and when they get that ONE THING, they will throw you away like kleenex, and you will be DAMAGED MERCHANDISE because you're not a virgin anymore."

I believed that crap because nobody told me anything otherwise.

I knew the man had to do something to the woman but didn't know what it was. Looking at a cross-section of a limp penis and a testicle in a book didn't expain anything to me.

I don't think I found out about the erection until sometime in high school. I don't know how that happened. I was smart so I had very few dates. You would never see a picture of a penis. The only thing they did was to show us the disney movie about menstruation in the fourth grade so that we wouldn't leave bloody trails in the halls. They said it had something to do with being able to have babies. Of course they said nothing about the male and his role. So we got to bleed and feel horrible with cramps and not really know what it was for.

I was really mad that I never got any actual sex education. My sister was naive too. She didn't know much more than I did.

Nowadays, it's so far to the other extreme in sexual explicitness. But a lot of kids don't get proper sex education. I would have no problem explaining sex to my child. I have a BA in Biology.
She had Planned Parenthood come to her school and explain everything in the fourth or fifth grade.
When they are still in the "Ooohh, yucky" stage.

[Kablooie]

162. America is just going out the way old Rome did. It's a time honored tradition.

[lonestarnot]

163. Find some other entertainment. One certainly can't become informed with the bullshit on the TV box.

[WinkyDink]

192. Did you read the OP? He was visiting his elderly cancer-patient mother. They weren't looking to be

"informed."

[themadstork]

166. Erections at the dinner table? Oh no!

Did you think I meant country matters?





"A!" thoghte this frere, "That shal go with me!"
And doun his hand he launcheth to the clifte,
In hope for to fynde there a yifte.
And whan this sike man felte this frere
Aboute his tuwel grope there and heere,
Amydde his hand he leet the frere a fart,
Ther nys no capul, drawynge in a cart,
That myghte have lete a fart of swich a soun.
The frere up stirte as dooth a wood leoun, -
"A! false cherl," quod he, "for Goddes bones!
This hastow for despit doon for the nones.
Thou shalt abye this fart, if that I may!"

[anneboleyn]

177. Bless you for quoting the filthiest poet of them all, dear Chaucer.

The rudest imagination, next to Shakespeare, of course.

[WinkyDink]

193. Hardly. And I taught "The Miller's Tale".

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. You know the problem is not the adds

but how we talk around the edges around it to be honest.

Sex is a touchy subject in this puritanical society.. one reason women need vibrators and men need viagra. Yes ED is real... but.

Yes our kids have sex all over them, but it is not a thing of beauty, but something dirty and horrible.

That is the problem...

And yes, as a society we need to grow up. My personal theory, if we were a little more accepting of sex as a natural act... perhaps there be a lot less need for the rest of the crap... and al the talk in hushed tones.

[themadstork]

171. Women need vibrators because we live in a puritanical society? wha . . . ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. Yes, we live in a society where sex is dirty

so many women do that in the privacy since vibrators are dirty and fun.

It is time we grow up as a society and learn to talk about sex for what it is. It do us quite a bit of good. And yes sales of vibrators and viagra might go up initially, but I am willing to bet we will be a healthier society too.

Of course it is not just sex where we can use a lot of help.

[themadstork]

173. I agree with your larger point

But I'm still kind of confused about the vibrator thing. Masturbation is fun, and if anything were to change I think women could use their vibrators w/o feeling guilty.

It almost seems like you're implying that vibrators are the result of a deeply unhealthy society, which to me would be kinda odd?

[nadinbrzezinski]

174. No the vibrators are not the problem

is the attitude.

Don't touch yourself... that thang is gonna fall, go to hell, insert horror here.

So it is not the device, is why people use them.

It is the forbidden fruit thing

[Raine]

180. TOTALLY Agree

I'm not a prude either, I came of age in the swinging 60's and 70's. Some of this though is actually stomach turning it's so vulgar. :puke:

[SoCalDem]

182. Your post reminded me of my son.

He was about 5 & we were in line at the store. I had his two younger brothers to corral, and I had started putting stuff on the conveyor. I remembered that I had forgotten paper napkins, so I told him to go get some.. I could see him & was not worried about him.. anyway his squeaky little voice echoed in the nearly empty store and he yelled.. "Mom, shouldn't I get SANITARY napkins"? The checker & I busted up laughing.. I was always telling him to wash his hands & not to touch this or that because it wasn't sanitary..

[Warren Stupidity]

186. That is why I stick to HBO Showtime and Netflix

I like my tv sex hot steamy and out in the open. I like language like those cocksucking motherfuckers wrote for Deadwood. I do hate the boner ads, but only because they are so goddamn stupid. How do you fuck in separate bathtubs?

[WinkyDink]

189. Only the Original 3 (NBC, CBS, ABC) can be counted on any more. Every other channel is "cable."

I, too, am disgusted.

[Syrinx]

194. cbs is corpses on parade

nbc is the "semen" channel. And abc is owned by cia/Disney.

But I do think Law and Order is of higher quality than the CSI's. So there's that.

[WinkyDink]

196. If it weren't for "L&O" I would truly despair!

[Syrinx]

199. I thought the original L&O was the best of the lot

I wish they didn't cancel it.

SVU, with Olivia and Stabler is good, but I get tired as hell of hearing "semen" in nearly every episode.

I actually thought Criminal Intent improved when they got rid of the original cast and brought in Jeff Goldblum. But I guess I was wrong, since the original cast is coming back, I think tonight.

I'll probably watch. :)

[Warren DeMontague]

244. By all means, don't get the Navy Channel, then. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

243. Counted on to suck, you mean.

"Any more"? You mean unlike 40 years ago, when all 100 channels on cable TV were nice and wholesome? :rofl:

I'm sorry that we all have more choices now, and the rest of us aren't stuck with all that bland ABCCBSNBC inanity---

but it's still there for you if you want it.

[Myrina]

209. ... actually the Trojan commerical is for 'personal massagers' ...

:puke: Not really what I want advertised on the Food Channel.
Same with the Viagra/Cialis/Extenze etc etc etc ...

[Warren DeMontague]

249. Apparently, the same people who like to eat, like to fuck.

In fact, there's probably a good deal of overlap between those two in the Venn Diagram.

[NNN0LHI]

216. First thing people should realize is that "reality" TV shows have nothing to do with reality

Everything goes a lot easier after that.

Don

[stuntcat]

226. part of the dumbing-down

ty, +1, rec

Some of the comments here make me embarrassed for DU, humans should be better than this.

[Warren DeMontague]

250. Humans should be better... says the person who wants us to be extinct.

What's the point of being 'better', then? What difference does it make?

[stuntcat]

253. the point?

if humans were better we'd slow down our earth-rape and start working together for the future of the babies already here, not wasting our existence on tv.

wow, easy question.

Please get back to me in 2040 about what a success humans are.

[Warren DeMontague]

255. But you believe in "Voluntary Human Extinction"

I mean, 'better' for you, is not here at all. Right?

[stuntcat]

257. for real tho.. ?

Are humans ever gonna go extinct? come on.

I've seen so many years of people hatin on vhemt, huMans beatin their chests has yet to convince me to give my baby the rest of this century.

[Warren DeMontague]

263. Then why pretend to support it, if you're not really in favor of it?

Just to see the reaction you get?

[stuntcat]

264. are You defending All Humanity to me?

because I LOVE all the things that my species is destroying, it physically hurts my chest right now discussing it with you.
I know humans are going to keep growing until they crash dramatically and violently, taking everything beautiful with them. It is a sick life, knowing what's happening. Great as some of us are, as a group we will rape to death everything beautiful about this world.

Yes, the reactions I've gotten have taught me a lot. Thank you for all your words. And still no matter what anyone says to me I will die proud of not making more humans.

Please be through trying to hurt me. I am hurt. And this is not changing my mind about the future.

(edit- Do you want me to take the vhemt picture away? I mean I thought it might be a good idea to spread, just the thought of us pausing and letting the other animals live. I'm not going to change anyone's mind, I know, but I can at least let someone know that some of us will do this. It is something I'm very proud of, especially considering the pressure I've gotten to get pregnant. But that little picture's gotten me too many attacks. I guess I have to take it down, if people take it personally enough that they have to argue with me about it for days, but I will still be proud of it, prouder every single day until I die.)

[Warren DeMontague]

265. What you don't understand is, there's a big difference between saying

"I'm not going to have any kids"

and

"humanity is so foul and evil, I hope it goes extinct". You get that, right? I respect your decision not to have kids. No one who doesn't want them should have them. That's one reason I'm pro-choice.

But it's an added layer of absurdity to suggest; as you seem to be doing, that not only should humanity die off as soon as possible, but we should sanitize the sex talk off cable tv, in the meantime. I mean... really?

By the way, you should research the Permian-Triassic Extinction event; historically, the Earth and the Solar System have done far more damage to the beautiful life on Earth than we ever could. Life survived that, and it will survive us and our raunchy sex ads, "voluntary extinction" or no.

[stuntcat]

266. did I say that?

"humanity is so foul and evil, I hope it goes extinct"? The more you'd learn about VHEMt, especially the guy who started it, the more you'd know that's not how we talk. And all the talk about sex in this thread is not from me, in fact I am very sorry I joined in here.
So much sex talk on the boob tube is dumb to me but I don't think it should be "sanitized" because of what it is. It is like spending hours discussing how loud you can fart or how much ice cream you can eat and throw up and re-eat, or any of the rest of the mind-sucking garbage they'll send out. That that's what entertains the masses does make me scared of humans yes, but I won't call people "evil" over it.


I've been reading about extinction events for so many years. Do you think I've gotten through the last decade without anyone telling me 'the Earth will survive us'? Soo many times I've had that talk, yet I am still ashamed of what my species is doing to such a world. We are not a mindless meteor or star.

[Warren DeMontague]

267. The shoe is on the hand it fits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TVqMMeq74c

[stuntcat]

268. guess I been TOLD!

:eyes:

TY for every word you've said, this has been so worth the while, I will not forget it.

[Warren DeMontague]

270. Actually, I was trying to cheer you up.

You aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know, of course.

[Lucian]

241. Usually when someone says "I'm not a prude...," they are.

There's nothing "dirty" about erectile dysfunction. It's a real problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

251. That must be why I never start sentences that way.

Never say "I'm not a Republican, but..." either.

[Puglover]

259. Yep I used to work with a right wing "Christian"

Our favorite thing he would say was "Now I never say anything bad about anyone, but..............." He was just precious. :rofl:

[seabeyond]

261. or conditioned because if anything is said that does not meet others thinking they are called prude

asexual, puritan and many other things. so in defense, people feel the need to justify that yes they like sex, now here is the issue.

i think it is more sad that duers has created an environment where they demand people shut up or are insulted about personal sexuality. kinda like an act of bullying. kinda like what every poster has done on this thread to declare that IF a person says not a prude, .... means you are a prude, now fuckin shut up. you are sufficiently insulted.

[Fire1]

245. Talk to the owners of the networks. Commercials are there

for a reason! M-O-N-E-Y!!!!

[Zephie]

260. Whitest Kids U Know is a fantastic show, but the humor is specifically for those who are

amused by the pushing of boundaries. I watch the show weekly (and am SO sad that this is the last season), and just last week they ran a skit called "Baked Beans". I won't uh, go into detail, but suffice to say I really won't be eating baked beans again anytime soon. They're funny, but the humor is really an acquired taste.

[Bake]

272. There is a time and place for almost everything.

I don't particularly care for the crap that passes for entertainment -- sexual, locker room, bathroom humor (much of which isn't even funny) -- being on primetime broadcast or even basic cable.

We used to believe in a certain decorum. I'm sure that my elderly mother knows the word "shit," and has probably used it a few times (particularly when she used to play golf!), but she's not going to hear it out of my mouth unless there's a d*mn good reason. And believe me, that's a word that is a regular part of my vocabulary. Does that make me a hypocrite? NO. It means I respect my mother.

People used to know when it was OK to use off-color material. Nowadays, apparently, not so much.

Bake