Internet making it harder for people (65 million plus Americans!) to leave criminal past behind

[Liberal_in_LA]

Internet Lets a Criminal Past Catch Up Quicker

By ERICA GOODE

The eight months she spent in prison, she said, were “the best thing that ever happened to me,” persuading her to pursue training in medical administration and complete coursework for a degree in psychology at the University of California, Berkeley. At 38, she is a far different person from the confused young woman who strayed into crime, she says.

But employers, initially impressed by her credentials, grow leery when they learn her history through criminal background checks. She has been turned down for more than a dozen jobs since finishing college in 2010.

The pool of Americans seeking jobs includes more people with criminal histories than ever before, a legacy in part of stiffer sentencing and increased enforcement for nonviolent crimes like drug offenses, criminal justice experts said. And each year, more than 700,000 people are released from state and federal prisons, a total that is expected to grow as states try to reduce the fiscal burden of their overcrowded penal institutions.

Almost 65 million Americans have some type of criminal record, either for an arrest or a conviction, according to a recent report by the National Employment Law Project, whose policy co-director, Maurice Emsellem, says that the figure is probably an underestimate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/us/29records.html?ref=us

[RandomThoughts]

1. lets put all the CEOs and rich in jail then.

So we can help them by giving them a 'best time of there lives'

[RKP5637]

3. +1, n/t

[Initech]

6. Let's start with Mark Zuckerberg.

[bbinacan]

2. I hate to say it but

given 2 equal candidates, ceteris paribus, I'd hire the one with no record.

[niyad]

4. for any record?? what if that record was for arrests at protests like seattle, or peace marches?

you wouldn't hire daniel berrigan?

[wickerwoman]

10. "She's been turned down for a dozen jobs since 2010"

I've been turned down for upwards of 700 jobs since 2008 and I don't have a criminal record.

Why you were arrested should matter, you're right, but imagine you're in HR and you get a stack of four hundred applications for one position. Do you look at the details of why everyone was arrested, or do you just dump everyone who checked yes to the question and then start culling the remaining 350 applications?

People get their CVs trashed unread because of the paper weight and the fact that they used a staple. Most employers are looking for reasons *not* to hire you, not the other way around.

If I had a criminal record, I'm afraid I would be looking at ways to employ myself because, right or wrong, in this economy, I would assume that I was unemployable.

And I even kind of understand it. Twenty qualified, fantastic people. One position. At some point your criteria is going to get superficial.

[bbinacan]

13. If they knowingly break the law,

I'd have to question their judgment and how that would translate into the job. Who is Daniel Berrigan?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Flaming Red Head]

41. Daniel Berrigan

Daniel Berrigan, SJ (born May 9, 1921) is an American poet, peace activist, and Catholic priest. Daniel and his brother Philip were for a time on the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list for their involvement in antiwar protests during the Vietnam war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Berrigan

[Amerigo Vespucci]

5. Don't worry, all you need is this guy on your payroll, and that DUI never happened.

[Enthusiast]

19. Factual.....nt

[TransitJohn]

7. A statement in the bolded part of the OP really pisses me off

and is one of my incredible pet peeves. Everybody treats an arrest as though it were a conviction! It's maddenning. I had been arrested a couple of times but not convicted of a criminal charge at one point in my life. EVERY fucking interaction with cops, they acted as though I were a criminal. "You've been arrested for drugs, we need to look through your car." Me: "The fuck you do, am I under arrest? No? I'm outta here." Scumbags.

[travelingtypist]

8. Convicted felon with a bachelors degree here.

I work from home as a transcriptionist -- contractor, no benefits -- because NONE of my clients EVER ask the question "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" EVER.

It's the one "legal" form of discrimination left and employers use it mightily.

[Liberal_in_LA]

9. I'm glad you are able to support yourself with self employment.

There is a group in Los angeles, other places also probably, working on ending discrimination against folks with criminal histories.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Yep, they do. It's a great "weeding out" process...

especially when so many are vying for the same job these days.

Any job.

Someone I love dearly has a Fish & Wildlife felony, for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong person, even though he wasn't even aware of the incident.

Still, he has a felony -- though it was about seven years ago now -- and it will haunt him forever.

:(

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. No, it is not the only legal form of discrimination left.

In the majority of US States, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against GLBT people in employment and in housing. There is no Federal law to protect them either.
Just a point of fact.

[SoCalDem]

12. As unfortunate for the persons involved, it's also a fact of modern life

HR departments in companies are on the ropes every time something bad happens at their workplace, and it's later found out that the person had a record that the company could have/should have known about, and then the lawsuits start.

Companies have learned from these events, to cover their own asses to the nth degree, just in case, and oftentimes these searches turn up things about people who would never cause a problem for them, but at the hiring stage , they cannot know that, so they err on the side of corporate-caution......to the detriment of the would-be employee.

Where once a background search probably never amounted to much more than a few phone calls to people listed on the application and a cursory credit check, the internet makes it much easier now, so of course companies will use it. Look at how many people are getting burned these days for crazy shit the posted on their facebook pages.

I guess the moral of the story is that (especially for young folks), if you do anything in your life that warrants the "attention" of the press, or the court system, someone somewhere WILL always find out about it. While it's too late for people who have issues in their pasts, it could be a deterrent to young people..

The HR people are under pressure too, because if they do not do the due-diligence, it's on their heads if information that should have been known, isn't.

In a job market where there are many applicants for every job, it's not hard to see why many companies opt for the ones without any "record" that would give them doubts. People are not hired on hunches & vibes much these days. It may not be fair, but at the point of application/ interview/pre-hiring, those doing the hiring have only what's available on a paper-trail, and what you say..and since they do not know you, they tend to rely on what they find out about you, and can be verified.

[KG]

14. another consequence of Prison America

[Hannah Bell]

15. The whole tech revolution is about having things to hold over people's heads to keep them

in place, subservient, fearful.

[inna]

16. in-sane-in-the-membrane. we are a fucking police state (or close, anyway).

are people *ever* going to wake up?

[pipoman]

17. I can and have seen how and why people with records are

denied jobs. Depending on the conviction and how long has passed since the conviction the best a person with a record can do is fully disclose the conviction on their own terms. Most above entry level jobs begin by submission of a resume and cover letter. Then if selected the first interview. The interview is the time to disclose the conviction, the consequences of the conviction, the details, and why this makes the applicant a better candidate than they otherwise would have been. The candidate shouldn't leave it to the employer to find out during the post interview screening process. People with records should involve themselves in field related extra activities which others don't usually do. Join professional organizations, blog or write articles for professional publications or web sites. Volunteer time in related areas. Find ways to counter the negative impact of the conviction...Again, the nature of the conviction is (and should be IMHO) always going to be germane to the decision of an employer.

[TorchTheWitch]

22. is this supposed to be some kind of problem???

Frankly, I like the fact that it's harder for people to hide their criminal past. That's exactly the sort of thing I'd like to know about someone before allowing them in my life. As far as I'm concerned having to be subjected to extra scrutiny and people knowing what sort of bad stuff you've done is part of the consequences for doing those things in the first place.

Sorry, but much of the bad shit that I've been a victim of in my life is at the hands of criminals where had I known about their bad character I wouldn't have associated with them much less trusted them which is what enabled them to victimize me. I managed to get through 46 years of life most of which was very difficult without "straying into" crime... it would never had even occurred to me to do so even in the worst of times. Most other people have managed to do the same even having a more difficult life than I have. Yet I'm supposed to feel SORRY that people with a criminal history have a harder time hiding it now making it harder for them to victimize others like I've been??? Fat fucking chance.

[Nikia]

33. It's a problem if there are that many Americans who are unemployable

Particuliarly those less likely to have a good support system. How is that supposed to help them become rehibilitated? Doesn't not being able to find a job make them more likely to steal or sell drugs again? What's your solution? Lock up a low level drug dealer for life because he will never be able to get a legitamate job ever again?

[Terra Alta]

35. so convicted felons should be barred from any type of employment

for the rest of their lives? I know a guy who is in prison for dealing drugs. He will have a very difficult time finding a job when he gets out and it's sad because he is a changed man. People do make mistakes, and those mistakes shouldn't have to follow them around for the rest of their lives.

[Horse with no Name]

23. Reading some of these replies I am left shaking my head

thinking that we are of completely different ideologies--and under different circumstances--probably not of the same political beliefs. But because of the one-size-fits-all of the Democratic Party, we are all shoved under the same moniker. It outlines our differences exponentially.

Using this type of information against individuals should not be allowed--to start with, there is a lot of inaccurate information out there. I found this out personally when I had a mandatory FBI background check for the state board. There is someone else out there with the same name and somewhere along the line...some of our records got cross-referenced. I was able to sort it out fairly easily, but had I not known or not been given the chance to figure out what had happened, I am quite sure it would have resulted in not getting a job.

This is just another thing that employers can use against prospective employees. I don't give a shit what "pressure" an HR rep is under. Someone that doesn't have a criminal record might just be someone who hasn't been caught, whereas someone with one might have learned a valuable lesson.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

30. Fascinating amount of deleted posts in this thread. (nt)

[SDuderstadt]

31. Check out the profile associated with...

post # 8.

[mountainlion55]

32. Don't forget

about us Cannabis users who cannot work with out a piss test! We are the discrimination nation!:hippie:

[Nikia]

34. You could easily become a criminal

If someone says that you are a dealer, the police could come to your house and find your stash. They charge you with dealing because they have a witness and some drugs. They offer you a short sentence or even probation if you plead guilty. They promise to investigate everyone you know and get you the maximum sentence if you don't. You become a felon because you had a little bit of weed and someone didn't like you.

[Terra Alta]

36. it's total discrimination

and should not be allowed, IMO.. these are people who are just trying to get back on their feet after making a mistake and it will be harder for them to do so if employers keep turning them away. Being without a job might cause them to commit more crimes while having a job will at least keep them busy and occupied, and they will be making money at the same time.

[The Flaming Red Head]

37. Yet if you are in prison they'll hire you without a background check

for 10 cents an hour, or is that 10 cents a day.

[undeterred]

38. Hey, they don't even want to employ you if you've been unemployed.

"Please explain any gaps in your employment history".

[The Flaming Red Head]

39. I just went through that myself

n/t

[The Flaming Red Head]

40. But prison industries are a really big deal now

and maybe part of the reason that jobs are so hard to find. Hell they are illegally extending sentences, so as not to loose that cheap poll of labor.

How'd you like to be kept in jail because you 're such a good and CHEAP employee.

I think that's been the plan all along and one of the reasons that they keep extending sentences and building more prisons.