Feds sting Amish farmer selling raw milk locally

[The Straight Story]

Feds sting Amish farmer selling raw milk locally

A yearlong sting operation, including aliases, a 5 a.m. surprise inspection and surreptitious purchases from an Amish farm in Pennsylvania, culminated in the federal government announcing this week that it has gone to court to stop Rainbow Acres Farm from selling its contraband to willing customers in the Washington area.

The product in question: unpasteurized milk.

It’s a battle that’s been going on behind the scenes for years, with natural foods advocates arguing that raw milk, as it’s also known, is healthier than the pasteurized product, while the Food and Drug Administration says raw milk can carry harmful bacteria such as salmonella, E. coli and listeria.

“It is the FDA’s position that raw milk should never be consumed,” said Tamara N. Ward, spokeswoman for the FDA, whose investigators have been looking into Rainbow Acres for months, and who finally last week filed a 10-page complaint in federal court in Pennsylvania seeking an order to stop the farm from shipping across state lines any more raw milk or dairy products made from it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/28/feds-sting-amish-farmer-selling-raw-milk-locally/?page=1

[jody]

1. Just another battle between those who want an Omnipotent Govt. to rule an Omniscient People. nt

[Dorian Gray]

13. An Omniscient People?

They know all about everything?

[jody]

26. Collective knowledge of We The People is vastly greater than the 545 people elected/appointed who

rule in Washington D.C.

Unfortunately at election time that wisdom is dissipated as voters fight like rabid dogs over divisive, polarizing issues and continue to elect and reelect those who abuse the power we entrust to them.

[railsback]

32. Some dumbarse could spread a virus

across the country because he wants to make some cash selling bacteria ladened milk. The Corporatacracy feeds stories like these in order to weaken regulations that cost them a few extra pennies per item, so they can increase their margins at the expense of the population.

[Maine-ah]

76. if done properly, it's fine to consume raw milk.

I was raised on it. I know many people that were also raised on it. Store milk doesn't taste the same at all, and after all these years out of habit, I still shake the milk bottle. I could buy it, from a local doctor (yep, a local doctor legally sells it in his office) but it's more expensive than store bought.

[comtec]

92. What is the process of pasturization?

How hard is it for a dairy farmer to do it themselves?
It was my understanding that it's a very short process.

I wonder if the reason why raw milk tastes so good is partially because it's whole.
Even "whole" milk is not complete. it has had fat removed.

I wonder if people want complete, not raw milk.
It would be interesting to see if you pasteurized pure, complete milk, how it would taste.

I'm sure a fair amount of the "better" taste is also due to circumstance and memory, not actual better taste.

Living on the dairy farm, being an adolescent, NOT contracting a deadly disease (or at least not attributing what you did catch to the milk). We remember our childhoods with more fondness than is due mot often, especially if it was a place where we had enjoyment.

There is also something to be said about testing milk that is raw. Testing the cows. if you can show that milk from a cow is free from such deadly bacteria, then it's fine to drink that cows milk raw. There is something to be said about the industrial nature of milking now a days that probably causes these diseases to be present making pasteurization necessary.

anyway just a but of ration and reason... let the argument continue.

[JVS]

60. So, does the omniscient people know if that milk is contaminated or not?

[jody]

91. Some do, perhaps others do not. Just like people who eat home grown peppers free of Salmonella and

people who buy FDA approved peppers from stores containing Salmonella.

IMO the issue is not milk or peppers, it's a continuing battle over who has the authority to PROHIBIT natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable rights.

I'm pro-choice on abortions, drugs, same-sex marriages, food supplements, eating foods, keeping and bearing arms, speech, religion, prostitution, . . . . . . .

I acknowledge there are some of those rights upon which government can INFRINGE but I oppose government illegally PROHIBITING those rights.

[railsback]

33. Bacteria KILLS

and spreads to kill even more.

[Renew Deal]

22. Do you support speed limits?

What a seat belt laws?

[railsback]

27. Seat belts save lives

End of story.

[Renew Deal]

35. So do raw milk laws

http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm079516.htm

[jody]

29. Please state how an answer to your question would resolve the issue of limits on the power of govt.

[Renew Deal]

36. It wasn't meant to "resolve the issue,"

But reasonable people accept that the gov't can protect the health and safety of their people. (Seat belt laws, raw milk laws, etc.)

[jody]

40. Then I won't answer your question. n/t

[Renew Deal]

43. lol

OK :shrug:

[PavePusher]

55. So, do we let them control... everything?

Or do we draw a line somewhere?

"willing customers", let them take responsibility for their actions.

[kelly1mm]

82. If the federal government can mandate you purchase something, simply

by being alive, say like health insurance, yes, we let them control everything.

[LiberalLoner]

2. I'm always in support of the FDA and understand they have a valid position here, but I still

reminisce about the raw, unpasteurized milk I drank for years as a kid growing up in Missoula, Montana. That sure was the best milk I ever tasted, by far. I guess I was lucky that I didn't get sick, but that local dairy in Missoula sold that milk to a whole lot of people for a whole lot of years without incident that I knew of.

I can't stand to drink milk now that I've tasted the raw milk because the pasteurized milk tastes slightly sour to me, like it's on the edge of going bad. It doesn't taste "right" to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand why the FDA is doing this - and they are right to be doing it - and I also understand why some people are taking risks and seeking raw milk out because it really does taste a lot better than regular milk. At least to me it did.

[dixiegrrrrl]

42. I grew up on milk from my g'parent's cows.

I bought and used raw milk in adult years when it was available, from farmers I personally knew.
My kids drank it.
I made cheese and butter from it.
Rather than ban it, maybe regulate it for purity would be a better idea.
Unless, of course, only Big Dairy is allowed to sell milk. With its hormones and perpetually lactating cows.

Sheesh.

[LiberalLoner]

44. Does raw milk taste better to you, too, or is my memory just playing tricks on me? It

just seemed to me that it tasted better. But maybe that was due to grass-fed cows rather than it being raw, maybe it was due to it being fresher, I don't know.

It's been a long time since I've drank any milk except for in cereal or something like that. And I was just a kid when I had the raw milk.

[dixiegrrrrl]

53. Tasted "better" but flavor would vary depending on what cows ate.

Grass fed vs hay fed.
I know people who dislike the stronger taste of fresh milk.
to me it has a rich, full flavor, grocery store milk tastes chalky and not sweet.
Of course, there was no such thing as "low fat" or "skim" milk from the cow!

Forced to drink grocery milk, I choose organic 2%.Flavor is more palatable.
In the last few years, we do not drink milk anymore, except as a very rare bowl of cereal craving.
So I freeze a gallon in pint jars, a gallon will last for months.
Thawing does not seem to change flavor.

[LiberalLoner]

63. Thanks! I wondered about that! n/t

[blueamy66]

64. And drinking it outta a stainless steel

pitcher left in the fridge overnight made it taste even better!

[dixiegrrrrl]

80. Yes! Cooling it overnight was key.

Then bring the milk into the kitchen, pour a couple pints into a blender, let it warm up to room temp
(70) and blend on very low, scoop up the milk fat that rises to the top, and you have.......
butter!!!

[blueamy66]

85. I forgot about that.

My friend's Mom used to do that!

Ah, the good old days. :-)

[FLPanhandle]

79. I view raw milk like raw oysters

Both can make you really sick (or kill you), but I'll be damned if I'm giving up my raw oysters.

The FDA should just ensure raw milk is properly labeled with warnings and let people decide what risks they are willing to take on their own.

[railsback]

3. Another anti-guv'mint story from the Reich

Its the law. What's the story other than feeding anti-guv'mint sentiment to 'baggers?

[The Straight Story]

4. So you agree with all laws? That's nice to know - I'll keep that in mind (nt)

[railsback]

12. The LAW is the LAW

and its a LAW that has a very logical, specific purpose.

[MadHound]

17. Yeah, that's what they said about slavery.

Not to mention prohibition, Jim Crow laws, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

[railsback]

24. Man evolves

unless you believe that GOD just zapped people into existence.

[MadHound]

30. Or devolves, as the case may be.

If you think that busting people for selling raw milk to willing consumers is evolution, well, sorry, but you don't know what the concept of evolve is all about.

[railsback]

34. Bacteria KILLS

and spreads to kill others. Devolving would be to think bacteria deserves rights, too.

[MadHound]

38. No, devolving is bringing the full force of the law to bear on a transaction

That is willingly, and knowledgeably entered into by both parties.

[railsback]

49. Some people still believe

that tax cuts create tax revenue. A barrier against ignorance is imperative.

[MadHound]

84. Not an apt comparison

Comparing tax cuts with a willing agreement knowingly entered by both parties. Speaking of ignorance. . .

[Phoenix63]

61. LMAO... yeah right...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x994047

[blueamy66]

65. No law on the dairy land....

We drank whatever we wanted....including beer with the dairy hands.

Growing up during my teen years on a dairy farm was the bomb!

[LiberalLoner]

67. That sounds so cool (growing up on a dairy farm) - lots of hard work I am sure but

it still sounds cool.

Hey, what is your opinion of Jersey cows for dairy cows? I had some ice cream in Ohio from Young's Dairy and it was so delicious. They told me it was because the milk came from Jersey cows. I thought those Jersey cows were pretty cool.

[blueamy66]

68. You know, it was sooo cool.

We swam in the irrigation ditches, slid down the cotton at the gin on cardboard, rode our horses everywhere, played hide n seek in the hay bales and I even got to pull a calf.

Every now and then we got to drive my friend's Dad's truck up to the local watering hole and bring the drunk dairy hands home in the bed....and we were only 13 or 14.

I don't remember much about the breeds of cows. I wasn't that into it. :-) Don't think that they were Jersey cows though.

My friends' sister now runs the dairy. AZ tried to run a freeway thru it, but she wouldn't budge...wouldn't sell. So when I drive by on the freeway, I make the peace sign at the house and the dairy. :-) But the cotton gin is gone. :-(

[LiberalLoner]

69. That sounds so awesome! I thought my childhood in Missoula was great, but

yours beats mine, LOL! I got to catch waterskippers in the irrigation ditches...when I'd pull a carrot out of the garden to eat I'd rinse it off in the irrigation ditch (mmmmm pesticide/fertilizer runoffs, LOL) or dangle my feet in the ditch. I rode horses when a friend gave me a chance to - bareback and with only a rope halter, no bit. It's a lot easier to stay on the horse when you have a saddle, isn't it?

We didn't have any cotton gins to play in, in Montana, but I did used to ice skate during winter on the ponds that would form in my grandparent's fields. That was pretty cool. And I remember seeing the Northern Lights a time or two.

[blueamy66]

72. That's sounds great as well.

Is a waterskipper like a salamander? We found crawdads out here. :-)

I only rode bareback once or twice....getting bucked off into the concrete irrigation ditch ended my bareback days.

The ice skating sounds awesome!

The scariest thing we ever did was get pulled through the irrigation "tube" that ran under the street. Someone who was brave enough went thru first, on their own, with a rope. We held onto the other end. Then the next idiot tied the rope to their foot and the idiot on the other end would pull them thru. Of course the current helped. I only did it once...scared the living shit outta me.

Kids these days don't know what they are missing, dontcha think???

[hobbit709]

86. to quote Mr. Bumble-"The law is an ass"

[Renew Deal]

7. Try harder

;)

[wuushew]

8. tell the poster you support smoking bans in public businesses

then watch the hilarity ensue. There are angry libertarians on this board.

[railsback]

14. I support

smoking bans in public places.

[The Straight Story]

28. Tell some posters you think abortion should be outlawed

Would those against making it illegal be libertarians in your book?

[ZombieHorde]

70. I don't think you need to put the adjective, "angry," in front of any type of DUer.

Our anger should just be assumed. DU is not a calm group of people.

Check out "both sides" on the gun forum.

Check out "both sides" on the I/P forum.

Check out the "both sides" on the topic of President Obama.

Even The Lounge has had bannings.

We freak out. It's what we do. :toast:

[kelly1mm]

83. Just like anti marajuana laws, and, until recently, anti sodomy laws. nt

[MineralMan]

5. Get the law changed. That's the solution for the raw milk

advocates. I wouldn't drink it. I worked in a dairy. I want my milk pasteurized. That is all.

Either change the laws or don't sell raw milk.

[Renew Deal]

6. Why isn't this guy in jail?

just kidding. I'm all for fresh, natural, etc. But raw milk is legitimately dangerous.

[MineralMan]

10. Yabbut...I drank raw milk on the farm for years, and I never got

sick. (anecdotal story #127)

Appropriate response: If you want to drink raw milk, buy a cow. It's against the law to sell it, and for good reasons.

[LiberalLoner]

16. (Guilty as charged.) I was just trying to say, I understood why some people want raw milk. n/t

[Renew Deal]

18. I do too

But I also understand why the FDA doesn't.

[LiberalLoner]

23. Oh, I totally do too. And I think the FDA took the right action here. n/t

[LiberalLoner]

20. Although, to be honest, I never was sure if the taste difference was due to the lack of

pasteurization and homoginization, or if the taste difference was due to the fact that the milk we got directly from the diary was no doubt fresher than milk that was packaged and then shipped to our town.

Maybe it's just a matter of fresher milk tasting better than older milk.

[blueamy66]

66. I used that anecdotal story.

It's true.

What is your problem with true, anecdotal stories?

[MineralMan]

71. They're completely irrelevant to the reason pasteurization

is required. That's what the problem is. And you know it. If you don't, you can look up stats on how many people got sick or died from drinking unpasteurized milk over the years. That you did not get sick is meaningless. It is evidence of nothing, except that one person did not get sick.

Recently, in California, a bunch of people did get sick with listeriosis from raw milk products. Before pasteurization, many children died from a number of diseases, including diphtheria and tuberculosis from drinking raw milk. That's why pasteurization is required, you see.

Buy a cow. Milk it. You can drink all the raw milk it will produce. Doesn't matter to me.

[blueamy66]

73. Well, it really wasn't just me.

It was my brother and their whole family and all of the dairy hands and various other people.

If people want to buy unpasteurized milk for themselves, how does it effect you? You just said that it "doesn't matter to me". So which one is it?

Aren't kids immunized from TB these days anyway?

[MineralMan]

75. Uh, no. Children do not receive the TB vaccine, although one

is available. It's very, very rarely used in the US. They are immunized against diphtheria, however. But those aren't the only risks from raw milk, anyhow.

What does matter to me is public health. It should matter to everyone. And it does, so raw milk sales are very strictly controlled, and are illegal in some states. They've worked very well to reduce a number of milk-borne illnesses that you wouldn't even recognize the names of. Before pasteurization, those illnesses caused more deaths that you'd believe. But, you haven't investigated that, I imagine.

Since you think the TB vaccine is routinely given to children, I imagine there's much you don't know that's relevant to why we pasteurize milk in the modern world. Good luck with that.

[blueamy66]

77. Um, I don't have kids, so I'm not up on childhood immunizations.

But nice jab at me. Thanks.

Must be tough being so smart and condescending at the same time. Or maybe not.

:eyes:

Gotta love DU....

[PavePusher]

57. Yeah, it's a real scourge on society, right up there with hang-nails and stubbed toes.

Sheesh, is there anything that isn't "legitimately dangerous"?

[phasma ex machina]

9. deleted

[MineralMan]

11. Oh, that's a new one.

I hadn't heard that one before. Why does the ADA hate the Amish so?

[Enrique]

15. are we against food being regulated by the feds?

I know some people are, but I didn't know so many were at DU.

[railsback]

19. They would be idiots

to NOT want regulated foods.

[LiberalLoner]

21. I agree. n/t

[PavePusher]

58. I guess I should plow my garden veggies back into the ground...

they're dangerous and unregulated.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my....

[Phoenix63]

25. I wonder what it cost to nail this criminal...

And I wonder how many real criminals got away because we spent money busting a fucking farmer.

I love seeing some of the reply's here... Some serious Judge Dredd shit... DA LAW IS DA LAW... :rofl:

[jody]

31. Probably several tens of thousands of dollars per gallon of milk. n/t

[jody]

37. Amazing that anti-unpasteurized milk supporters use the same paradigm as anti-abortion & anti-drug

supporters

[Throd]

39. Why can't I buy cow secretions from my neighbor?

[jody]

41. Because the Decider in the Oval Orifice say you couldn't. nt

[Renew Deal]

45. Yes, the Decider named Calvin Coolidge

Pasteurized milk laws have been on the books since the 20's.

[jody]

46. OK but what presidents enforce prohibitions of drugs, abortions, same-sex marriage, prostitution,

and other intrusions on unenumerated rights government is obligated to protect under the 9th Amendment?

ADD: The issue is pro-choice on individual freedoms versus government-choice on those freedoms.

[FarLeftFist]

47. Lets just wait until an outbreak occurs and causes a town tragedy...

Riiiiiiight. Maybe I'll start selling snake venom or goats milk even though I have no idea about sterilization.

[LiberalLoner]

50. Yeah, there's too much danger involved, and children would likely be harmed, so I do

understand what the FDA is doing, and agree with it, even though I did think the raw milk tasted delicious when I had it as a kid. But it might have been due to the cows being raised on grass and natural pasture and not fed hormones and antibiotics and all.

I get the feeling we lose something in terms of taste and nutritional value when we go to factory farming as opposed to local small dairies and local farmer's markets and our own gardens.

I'd like to see more localized food production and more humane treatment of animals than what you get with the feed lots and factory farming. I'm glad for the organic foods movement and the local foods movement.

[1monster]

48. Would that the FDA policed the pharmaceutical industry with as much zeal

as they do those who sell raw food stuffs to customers who know what they are buying...

[LiberalLoner]

51. You have a point there. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

52. This is what the Federal government spends its limited funds on?

What about using the limited funds to pursue the banksters who brought down the economy? I imagine the US Attorney's Office made to go after this farmer rather than to use the funds to prosecute fraudulent mortgage brokers. I consider the prosecution a waste. There are bigger fish to fry.

[phasma ex machina]

59. deleted

[CanonRay]

54. Talk about a complete waste of resources

have they nothing better to do?

[geckosfeet]

56. damned Amish health criminals

:sarcasm:

[blueamy66]

62. Screw the FBI

I grew up on my friend's dairy. We drank the unpasteurized milk daily.

AND I'M STILL ALIVE, 30 years later!

Let the Amish make a buck darnit.

[Desertrose]

74. Used to get raw milk all the time when I lived there......

...and the Amish farmer also sold it to be pasteurized. Cleanest milkhouse I ever saw....best tasting milk too for that matter. Never had a problem.



How much money did they spend on this "sting"? And it hurt who now? Those who knew they were taking a possible risk by drinking unpasteurized milk? Oh yeah, we need a big federal sting on this for sure.
:eyes:


In other news...Goldman Sachs are still crooks and have "stolen" how much money again?

[FLPanhandle]

78. I loved getting raw organic milk & cheese in France last time we went

Amazing the flavor difference in the cheeses especially.

Personally, I think raw milk should be treated like raw oysters. Warnings and buyer beware.

Besides, doesn't sound like this should be a priority for the FDA nor the FBI

[saras]

81. They would do better to forbid the practices that get bacteria into the milk

but that would mostly impact large commercial interests, and that wouldn't do at all.

[Motown_Johnny]

87. Then shouldn't breast feeding be illegal, or should women microwave their

mammary glands prior to feeding their child?

[WatsonT]

88. So are we against federal food regulations now? nt

I've got some hamburger that's been ripening in the backyard for a few weeks. The feds say it's no good to serve to other people but I tried some once and didn't die.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

89. and how much did this cost?

[TorchTheWitch]

90. good grief people - this is about selling raw milk across the states

All this rubbish about buying LOCAL raw milk isn't at issue here one iota. This farmer was selling raw milk from Pennsylvania all the way over in Washington, and it was for THAT reason that he broke the law. It's right THERE in the OP. You honestly have no problem with raw milk being shipped in trucks across the country to be sold in Washington as if it's the same thing as buying raw milk from your neighbor farmer or drinking raw milk when you were a kid straight from your own cow???

[msanthrope]

93. Don't bring facts into this--the raw milk purists don't believe in germ theory. n/t