If QEII, Charles, William all die while Kate is pregnant with first child who becomes King/Queen?

[itsrobert]

Just asking.

Will it be Harry?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I know it is entertaining... to ask these questions

but who cares?

:-)

Ok I should keep tract of this... after all I do have a monarchy of sorts in a fictional world... one where the King would rather have a democracy... go figure.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. Lady Gaga will ascend to the throne and become Queen Gaga.

[cherish44]

3. They've got a blowup "Automatic Monarch" they can use.

Kind of like the automatic pilot in the move "Airplane". :P

[City Lights]

4. Yes. Harry is currently 3rd in line to the throne. nt

[itsrobert]

6. So what if Kate has and emergency C section to have the bady

moments before William dies?

[WinkyDink]

35. Now you're simply being grotesque.

[Darth_Kitten]

87. And then the evil gangster Stefanos claims it's HIS baby......

and it's revealed William has an identical twin brother locked up in the Tower....


Sorry. :)

[Generic Other]

14. Oh man you are going to start a civil war over a technicality

The War of the Corgis. Who do you back? The evil red-headed prince or the infant pretender?

[LisaL]

61. Only because William doesn't have any heirs yet.

The baby (assuming it's a boy) would be in line for the throne, not Harry.

[Darth_Kitten]

88. He doesn't have much hair left, either.

:evilgrin:

[LisaL]

90. I think everybody expects he will get some heirs.

Hair, that's another story alltogether.

[JackRiddler]

76. So that would be this guy?

[Enrique]

5. Susan Boyle n/t

[Buzz Clik]

7. This guy

[Journeyman]

8. I believe it would be John Goodman. . .

[Raschel]

9. That's kinda morbid.

[shraby]

10. Doesn't really matter. They don't rule England anymore.

[Generic Other]

17. It's a Monty Python world

some of us like to watch a parade no matter how silly--especially if it comes out of the Ministry of Silly Walks.

[Joe the Revelator]

23. No shit?

[hfojvt]

11. As of now, I am in charge

Al Haig

[Historic NY]

44. & Dame Edna is his Queen........

:rofl:

[Generic Other]

12. Her child, with Harry as Prince regent and her as Queen Mother and Dowager Queen

and the little "prince" would be lucky not to be buried under the staircase in the Tower of London so their evil red-headed uncle could steal his throne. Does that answer your question?

[PCIntern]

13. the evil uncle who looks exactly like the groomsman or whoever he was...

[Generic Other]

16. Oh dear me...like Moses in Phaoroh's court

This scandalous accusation would have in times past led to Civil War or duels at twenty paces.

[inna]

18. .

:spray:

:applause:

[sarge43]

29. She wouldn't be queen anything.

In this scenario she was never a queen consort. Like Victoria's mother she would continue to be a duchess unless another title were granted.

[Generic Other]

32. No. Victoria's mother was not a member of the immediate royal family

Victoria inherited through her father's line.

The mother of a King would be known as Queen Mother (although the technicality of not having been coronated might be a sticking point). You are being very picky with a widowed mother-to-be who is in deep mourning carrying the posthumous offspring of the newly martyred royal line! They might beatify her before that scenario played itself out.

[sarge43]

38. Catherine isn't either. Right now she's the wife of a duke and prince

as was Vic's mother. She too was the mother of a monarch, but she stayed duchess of Kent because her husband was never king.

I'm a former military bureaucrat -- picky is the default position.

Queen regnant: Monarch in own right
Queen consort: Wife of the monarch
Queen mother: Natural child is the reigning monarch
Queen dowager: Widowed queen consort, reigning monarch not her child.

[Generic Other]

46. So possibly Duchess Regent? Has there ever been one of those?

Very sticky to be the one in charge of the pecking order!

I bow to your knowledge of protocol in this instance. So am I bowing to a general or a staff sergeant? Either way, I bow low. Thankfully, you have saved the kingdom from a monarchical crisis.

[Generic Other]

47. One more objection -- wouldn't moment of death determine title in this instance?

If QE2 dies first, followed by Charles, he would be the new king at his death, and then if William lingered a few minutes longer, he would be king. His wife's title would change then. Queen Mother and regent to the infant prince. Or would time of death betaken in consideration? After all they say. "The King is dead. Long live the King" and refer to two different people. Is the coronation necessary?

[sarge43]

53. Good point. Never ran across a time frame

"King for a nanosecond"?, but yes, if Charles and William would survive HM technically they would be king. The heir is monarch from the moment of predecessor's death. The coronation is cake icing.

Interesting trivia about Elizabeth. She's the only British monarch in modern times (a couple of centuries at least) whose exact moment of accession isn't known. Her father died alone in his sleep

[sarge43]

48. Quite possible she would be a member of a Regency

They tend to be committees now, but Duchess Regent does have a nice ring to it.

Mere sergeant, but we're the worst nitpickers of all.

Heading off a crisis is herding chipmunks, but otherwise it's a hellva mess.

[Darth_Kitten]

94. No, a mother of a King isn't necessarily a Queen herself.

Some crowns have passed from grandfather to grandson, etc.

Queen Mother, I don't believe, is a real title.

[Kingofalldems]

15. I am already the King

[Generic Other]

19. All hail sire. Forsooth where is thy kingdom, your highness

The eligible princesses with their silly hats all want to know.

[undeterred]

20. Simon Powell

[marybourg]

21. The Regent. nt

[Generic Other]

25. Regent usually refers to an older relative who reigns in place of a child

until the child reaches majority.

prince regent
n. pl. prince regents or princes regent
A prince who rules during the minority, absence, or incapacity of a sovereign.

Thus until the little bugger grows up. Then William's offspring becomes the king. Trust me. I know this stuff for a reason.

[JVS]

22. Such an incident would increase sales of the tabloids to the point where they control the world.

[Generic Other]

26. Only if the Queen Mother (Kate) started dating Justin Bieber

Diana seems to have pretty much outdone even Jackie O for being tabloid fodder. Hard to imagine it getting worse. If it does, than poor Kate. She will be the papparazzi's object of attention for a very long time.

[sarge43]

24. The child with a regency for legal purposes.

Probably the duke of York, the Princess Royal (Anne) and maybe Henry would be part of it.

At eighteen the regency would be dissolved and the child would take on full responsibilities as monarch.

Check out the film Young Victoria. Them what be in charge were sweating bullets that William IV (Vic's uncle) die before she turned 18. They were more than worried that her mother and her secretary and possible lover would become Vic's regents or worse, one of her uncles. To a man, disasters.

[WolverineDG]

67. that & her mother's bat-shit crazy idea to extend the Regency until Vic turned 21 nt

[sarge43]

91. That sounds like something Conroy would kite.

He was a grifter and not too bright.

[WolverineDG]

92. Yup, I couldn't remember Conroy's name

but he's the one who got the Duchess to go along with it.

dg

[Jack Rabbit]

27. I believe the child does immediately upon birth

Although this is the kind of thing that used to provoke royal wars, it probably wouldn't these days. That's the advantage of having a monarchy with no real power. Prince Harry could serve as regent until the child reaches the age of majority. That pretty much gives him the duty to dissolve parliament at the PM's request and to reconvene it after elections are held.

That is also why, democrat though I am, I'm not at all concerned whether or not the British monarchy is ever abolished.

[WinkyDink]

36. There is no gap in time after a monarch's death. Whoever is the LIVING HEIR is next.

[zbdent]

28. not sure, but I'm guessing that the ghost of Al Haig might try to claim it ...

[Generic Other]

33. Oh that cracked me up

Yes in our country, the pretenders are the ones to watch! hahaha

[MineralMan]

30. Jeb Bush?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

31. I might depend on the order of those deaths.

Pure speculation based on almost complete ignorance of rules of succession for the British monarchy:

1. Elizabeth/Charles/William
Assuming the Queen dies first, Charles is King. If Charles dies next, then William is King. If William then dies without living air-breathing post-womb issue, Harry's the heir.

2. Elizabeth/William/Charles
If William dies without issue, after Elizabeth but before Charles, again I think Harry is the heir.

3. Charles/Elizabeth/William
If Charles dies before Elizabeth and William, I'm not sure. I think the Queen designates an heir at that time. But assuming it's William, we go back to scenario 1, and Harry is the heir.

4. William dies first
In this case, Charles is still first in line and Harry is his heir.

5. Then there's the "Family Portrait Electrocution Scenario" from the movie King Ralph to consider. That is, the simultaneous deaths of Elizabeth, Charles and William. They may have to have a war of succession in that case.

In at least 4 of my 5 scenarios, Harry comes out on top.

Therefore my money's on the evil Red-Headed Prince.

[zipplewrath]

37. Chuck can't die first

"3. Charles/Elizabeth/William
If Charles dies before Elizabeth and William, I'm not sure. I think the Queen designates an heir at that time. But assuming it's William, we go back to scenario 1, and Harry is the heir."

Sorry, if Chuck dies first, Lizzies next in line becomes king, which is Andy IIRC. At that point it don't matter if William dies, cause he'll never be king if his father dies before ascending to the throne. Andy's son becomes king after that.

Elizabeth is only Queen because she was the oldest daughter of the second son of her grandmother. The first son abdicated which shifted the line to her branch of the family.

[Iggo]

41. I forgot about Andrew.

[tammywammy]

50. William and Harry are higher in line than Andrew, even if Charles dies

If Elizabeth, Charles and William die and William has no children, then Harry becomes King.

[wickerwoman]

62. I'm not up on the modern interpretation,

but I think after Richard the Lionheart died, the law was changed so that the Crown skips over children of deceased siblings who never inherited. I think Richard III used a similar argument to disinherit his nephew.

You have three brothers: Richard, Geoffrey and John in that order. Geoffrey has a son, Arthur, and then dies. Richard is king and then dies. The throne skips the son of the deceased second brother and goes to the third, John.

So, unless they've changed the order (and they probably have, but who knows with royals) if Charles dies before Elizabeth, then her second son (Andrew?) has historical precedence for disinheriting William.

The throne goes to the oldest surviving son of the last sitting monarch, not the oldest male direct descendant.

[tammywammy]

65. Andrew would only be next if Charles hadn't had children

Since Charles has children, they are in line before Andrew, even if Charles dies.

It goes Charles and then his children, then Andrew and his children and then Anne and her children.

[WolverineDG]

70. :ahem: Edward before Anne

man, that's gotta suck.

dg

[tammywammy]

71. Yep, they still have the boy's first rule

I suspect it'll change, especially if William and Kate have a daughter first.

And you're right it's Edward before Anne.

[gauguin57]

98. ... and I just heard from a "royalty" journalist on TV this weekend that Anne works the hardest ...

... she made more personal appearances on behalf of the monarchy in the last year than any of the other royals, including the Queen.

And yet, because she lacks a "Y" chromosome, she gets stuck in the back of the pack.

More monarchy b*llsh*t.

[CTyankee]

52. Does Andrew even HAVE a son?

Does this mean that one of those two idiot looking young women in funny hats becomes Queen?

[emmadoggy]

56. Andrew is currently 4th in line, after Harry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne


I just heard a discussion about this last night on a show discussing the wedding etc. on ABC. One of the people commenting on it, noted that the Queen's mother lived past the age of 100 and that Elizabeth seems to be still in very good health at the age of 85. This person said they didn't think it was out of the realm of possibility that Elizabeth could outlive Charles (unlikely, but not impossible). It certainly sounded as though, if that scenario happened, the throne would pass to William. As long as Charles, the first-born son, has living heirs, they ascend first. Only if Charles had no living heirs would it pass to the next son after Charles.

Edited to add: As soon as William has a child, Harry and everyone else in the line of succession go down one position. Same thing happens for each additional child that William has.

[SoCalDem]

60. Andrew has two daughters..(one with beige antlers)

:)

[emmadoggy]

100. Ha!!!

Ok, you just made me laugh out loud. Good one!

You know, the rest of her outfit was just fine and appropriate, but the "hat" was just a bit too wacky. Though I will also say, hers was not the only bizarre headgear in attendance.

And what was up with Eugenie??!! I am not one to be a harsh critic, but she looked like a train wreck. The dress was hideous, the hat was "meh" and her hair was a mess. And I've seen both of those girls look very pretty before. Not sure what happened on this occasion. :shrug:

[patricia92243]

64. Wow - that could be a real possibility. Elizabeth could live 10-15 or more years. It is not at all

far-fetched that Charles could die before then. If the crown went to Andrew, when he dies, would it go to one of his two daughters - they seem sort of odd.

[WolverineDG]

69. Andrew only gets the nod if both William AND Harry die

and neither of them have kids.

Queen Elizabeth II
Prince Charles
Prince William
Prince Harry
Prince Andrew
daughter 1
daughter 2
Prince Edward
child 1
child 2 (I think he has 2 kids)
Princess Anne
Son
Daughter

dg

[sarge43]

75. Edward does

Son and daughter, born in that order

[Bunny]

40. Here is my interpretation of your theory, also born out of complete ignorance of the laws of

succession:

1. Correct
2. Correct
3. I think William is automatically the heir, I don't think Liz get to designate that.
4. Correct, assuming Will has no living children.
5. Correct, again assuming Will has no living children.

If Will has any living children, either males or females, they automatically bump Harry out of all of the above scenarios. In an Extended Family Portrait Electrocution Scenario: Liz, Chuck, Will (with no living issue), Harry AND Andrew all die, then Princess Beatrice gets to be Queen, which would be totally awesome!

[Iggo]

43. I forgot about Andrew.

But I wanna change my vote to the pretty little thing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster hat.

[WinkyDink]

34. Harry. The unborn are not heirs.

[sarge43]

45. Harry would be the child's heir presumptive

In this scenario Harry or his child would reign only if the child dies or never has children.

If a monarch predeceases his first unborn child, a temporary regency is established until the birth. If the child lives, the regency stays in place until the child is of age or see above.

[WinkyDink]

77. Your source? Not that you have none, but I would like to read this in context.

[sarge43]

85. Well, not one exactly for an unborn child. That has happen so

seldom that there's no act of Parliament that I know of. In recent European history the only example is Alphonso XIII of Spain who was born six months after his father, Alphonso XII, died.

Let's put this way. If a husband dies and his wife is pregnant with their first child, the estate whatever it may be in held probate until the child is born because child has legal claim to at least a portion of it.

My source to call Harry, h. presumptive are the laws of succession.

A heir apparent is one who cannot be replaced in order of succession.
Charles is Elizabeth's h. apparent because he is her eldest son. No one can take his place unless he predeceases her or steps aside. When and if he becomes king, William is the h.a. and so forth. Eldest son get the crown. If there are no sons, then eldest daughter.

A heir presumptive is one who can legally be replaced in the order of succession. For example, Elizabeth was her father's h. pres. because he could have had a son who would replace her as h. a. Her father was h.pres to his brother, Edward VIII, later duke of Windsor, for the same reason.

So Harry would be a h. pres to a child king of William's until kid died or had kids.

[LisaL]

63. I always believed that

the crown is inherited from the oldest son to his children.
That's why the children are called "the heir and the spare." The baby (assuming it's a boy) should be next in line to the throne after William?

[WinkyDink]

78. There is no "baby" in the OP; there is a fetus of indeterminate age and sex in the example.

[TBF]

39. I hope it's Harry -

I think he would liven up the place a little. :)

[Vinnie From Indy]

42. Count de Money

[grasswire]

49. It's good to be the King. n/t

[jwirr]

51. If tradition is followed Harry would probably become regent. However,

I don't know about an unborn heir.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. They changed the succession rules.

The females can inherit the throne even if there are other males in line behind the eldest male.
So if Elizabeth and Chuck die, then Princess Anne would get the throne ahead of Andy and Edward.

Am I right or does it go straight to William after Chuck?

[tammywammy]

57. Straight to William

Charles' children are ranked higher than Andrew or his children. And if William has a child, that child is ranked higher than Harry. It would still follow this line even if Charles dies before Elizabeth, since William/Harry are before Andrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_throne

Current monarch: HM Queen Elizabeth II (born 1926)

HRH The Prince of Wales, the Heir Apparent
HRH The Prince of Wales (Prince Charles, b 1948) B D
HRH The Duke of Cambridge (Prince William, b 1982) B D
HRH Prince Henry of Wales (Commonly known as Prince Harry, b 1984) B D
HRH The Duke of York (Prince Andrew, b 1960) B D
HRH Princess Beatrice of York (b 1988) B D
HRH Princess Eugenie of York (b 1990) B D
HRH The Earl of Wessex (Prince Edward, b 1964) B D
Viscount Severn (James, b 2007) B D
The Lady Louise Windsor (b 2003) B D
HRH The Princess Royal (Princess Anne, b 1950) B D

[sarge43]

58. When did Parliament change the succession laws?

That would be major news. Sweden has the first come, first serve regardless of gender succession rule, but don't think any other monarchy does.

No, even if you're right, Chuck is first born and Will is his first born.

[tammywammy]

59. They haven't, it's still a male preference

If they have a daughter then a son, the son is the heir. It hasn't changed, but I imagine if they did have a daughter first it would quickly change if not sooner.

[Darth_Kitten]

86. Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands....

No discrimination on gender or religion.

[WinkyDink]

80. They most certainly did NOT change the Law of Succession! William succeeds Charles.

And should William and Harry pre-decease their father before William has an heir, Andrew becomes King. Anne is way out.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Me.

So don't piss me off.

[WolverineDG]

66. the baby, when it's born

until the child turns 18, however, there would be a Regency Council.

dg

[Geoff R. Casavant]

68. Look back to your history -- it's not pretty.

When Henry I died, he had no surviving son, but he had a daughter Maud who was pregnant. There were no other direct heirs. Henry also had a nephew Stephen. Thus, a great civil war of succession. Stephen won, but he later died with no heir either, so Maud's son eventually became Henry II.

[Ellipsis]

72. self delete

[mysuzuki2]

95. Stephen and Maud fought a pretty vicious

civil war if I remember correctly.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

97. That period isn't called "The Anarchy" for nothing. n/t

[JackRiddler]

73. Optimus Prime.

Or whoever else can most efficiently chop off the heads of the other pretenders-to-the-throne in battle. Which is how it was established in the first place, so why not?

[Ellipsis]

74. Richard of Gloucester of course...

Ay, Edward will use women honourably.
Would he were wasted, marrow, bones and all,
That from his loins no hopeful branch may spring,
To cross me from the golden time I look for!
And yet, between my soul's desire and me--
The lustful Edward's title buried--
Is Clarence, Henry, and his son young Edward,
And all the unlook'd for issue of their bodies,
To take their rooms, ere I can place myself:
A cold premeditation for my purpose!

[haele]

79. Harry will be regent until the kid is old enough to ascend the throne - probably 18?

Kate will not be a "queen mum", as William never became king, but until she marries, she will remain Princess Willaim.

Same thing would have been speculated about in the last generation, with Andrew, Diana, and Willaim.

There's all sorts of useless historical knowledge in my noggin...

Haele

[WinkyDink]

81. THE OFFICIAL LINE OF SUCCESSION :

The birth of a son to William would alter the list from #3 on. The succession would then go from #2 Wm to William's first-born son and then HIS heirs.

http://www.britroyals.com/succession.htm
1. HRH Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales (b. 1948)
2. HRH Prince William of Wales (b. 1982)
3. HRH Prince Henry of Wales (b. 1984)
4. HRH Prince Andrew, The Duke of York (b. 1960)
5. HRH Princess Beatrice of York (b. 1988)
6. HRH Princess Eugenie of York (b. 1990)
7. HRH Prince Edward (b. 1964)
8. James, Viscount Severn (b. 2007)
9. Lady Louise Windsor (b. 2003)
10. HRH Princess Anne, Princess Royal (b. 1950)
11. Peter Phillips (b. 1977)
12. Daughter of Peter and Autumn Phillips (b. 29 Dec 2010)
13. Zara Phillips (b. 1981)
14. David Armstrong-Jones, Viscount Linley (b. 1961)
15. Hon. Charles Armstrong Jones (b. 1999)
16. Margarita Armstrong-Jones (b. 2002)
17. Lady Sarah Chatto (b. 1964)
18. Samuel Chatto (b. 1996)
19. Arthur David Nathaniel Chatto (b. 1999)
20. HRH Prince Richard, The 2nd Duke of Gloucester (b. 1944)
21. Alexander Windsor, Earl of Ulster (b. 1974)
22. Xan Windsor, Lord Culloden (b. 2007)
23. Lady Cosima Windsor (b. 2010)
24. Lady Davina Windsor (b. 1977)
25. Senna Lewis (b. 2010)
26. Lady Rose Gilman (b. 1980)
27. Lyla Gilman (b. 2010)
28. HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent (b. 1935)
George Windsor, Earl of St. Andrews (excluded by marrying a Roman Catholic)
Edward Windsor, Baron Downpatrick (excluded by becoming a Roman Catholic)
Lady Marina Charlotte Windsor (excluded by becoming a Roman Catholic)

[Darth_Kitten]

89. But that's the Protestant succession, how about the REAL one?

Yes, I know, I'm stirring the pot.

[formercia]

82. Freddy Mercury

[spanone]

83. this guy...

[slackmaster]

84. Elton John

He can take both titles!

[L0oniX]

93. The Anti Christ 666.

[LibertyLover]

96. That's easy

while there would be a regency, the child would be either king or queen. Now if they were all to die, including Kate and her unborn child, then Harry would becoming king.

[Stinky The Clown]

99. Cabbage Patch King