Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
Latest Breaking News
In reply to the discussion: Ukraine’s Offensive Falters as Elite Units Defect to Pro-Russia Side [View all]Catherina
(35,568 posts)31. This has been going on for days. Ukranian military units defecting and switching sides
Youtube and news sites which emphasize reporting over propaganda have been crawling with videos of Ukranian troops refusing to fire on their compatriots and switching sides.
This one is from a few days ago when local people of South-East caught and disarmed the tank near the city of Donetsk. The tank crew doesn't even seem to have and idea how to properly operate the vehicle. In this video, according to the freaks of the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev, what you see are terrorists.
According to the audiovisuals, what you see is simple civilians willing to stand up in front of a tank with their car and their bodies to stop it.
Quick translation: "Who do you plan to shoot at? Stop the engine! Stop the engine! What are you pulling your assault rifle out for? Do you think that if we jump on your tank it will protect you? No, tell us, who are you going to shoot at? Switch off the engine, hush it down, we are telling you. Where will you go - everywhere people. Chaps, let's pull them out of this tank, they don't know what they are doing. Hush down the engine, stop it, who are you going to shoot at - at own lads?
Chaps, don't touch them, let's solve it normally, like normal people.
Hush down the engine, stop it."
Judging by the copious amount of cursing the civilians are very angry because they suspect this tank is headed for the city of Slaviansk. The poor tank crew seemed clearly frightened and ashamed and the tank commander did the only right thing: he climbed out of the tank, begged to crowd not to touch it (he is personally responsible for it) and tried to convince the crowd that they didn't plan on shooting anyone. The tank commander looks like a nice young guy placed in an impossible situation and the civilians understood that. The residents were angry because initially the tank crew tried to avoid them. The good news is that level heads were saying "stop screaming! stop screaming!" and cooled down the angry crowd. And no, despite all the weasel worded screeching implications from our State Department, there weren't any Spetsnaz GRU in disguise or any sign of Russians at all.
If these civilians had been military, even without anti-tank weapons, they could have easily set this tank on fire. In other words, complete total chaos for the putchists in Kiev who weren't counting on Ukranian military not wanting to kill their fellow compatriots.
And all those who claim to "know" Russians are causing the chaos can't provide a shred of credible evidence to back up their claims except for "clothes and guns look Russian" and "they look organized". Of course they have uniforms and look "organized". Half of the Ukrainian army has defected in the East, the Berkut force was disbanded by the interim govt and most of police are siding with protestors -- there's plenty of organized and armed people to go around. And the unarmed locals, men, women and teenagers are out in full force too as evidenced by all the videos.
It was local civilian activists who peacefully disarmed the 25th Brigade of Ukrainian paratroopers sent over there and then provided food and civilian clothes for them.
The idea of shooting at one's own people at the whim of questionable 'government' in Kiev seems utterly unimpressive to Ukrainian soldiers and reservists.
On this video from Donetsk, you can see some Ukrainian military vehicles raising Russian flags, while others raise the flags of the Donetsk
Here's another video. Kramatorsk residents at the local Malotaranovka railway crossing blocking a convoy of 15 military vehicles.
...
One YouTube video of what happened next shows a woman coming to a soldier with the reproach: You are the army, you must protect the people.
We are not going to shoot, we werent even going to, is the soldiers reply.
Similar conversations could be heard at each of several APCs which entered the city, with locals promising to defend their neighbors, in case the soldiers start a military operation.
...
Weve seen here, that these are neither separatists nor terrorists, but ordinary local residents, with whom we are not going to go to battle, one of the defected soldiers said.
....
Anti-government activists block a collumn of Ukrainian men riding on Armoured Personnel Carriers in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk on April 16, 2014. (AFP Photo/Anatoly Stepanov)
The soldiers and civilians started fraternizing very quickly and soon were joking about coming for a visit without weapons next time. Many of the soldiers put on St. Georges ribbons, the traditional Russian emblem used to commemorate the Soviet Unions fight against Nazism in World War II.
http://rt.com/news/ukrainian-tanks-kramatorsk-civilians-840/
One YouTube video of what happened next shows a woman coming to a soldier with the reproach: You are the army, you must protect the people.
We are not going to shoot, we werent even going to, is the soldiers reply.
Similar conversations could be heard at each of several APCs which entered the city, with locals promising to defend their neighbors, in case the soldiers start a military operation.
...
Weve seen here, that these are neither separatists nor terrorists, but ordinary local residents, with whom we are not going to go to battle, one of the defected soldiers said.
....
Anti-government activists block a collumn of Ukrainian men riding on Armoured Personnel Carriers in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk on April 16, 2014. (AFP Photo/Anatoly Stepanov)
The soldiers and civilians started fraternizing very quickly and soon were joking about coming for a visit without weapons next time. Many of the soldiers put on St. Georges ribbons, the traditional Russian emblem used to commemorate the Soviet Unions fight against Nazism in World War II.
http://rt.com/news/ukrainian-tanks-kramatorsk-civilians-840/
Ukrainians don't want fight with Ukrainians and they don't want to fight with Russians all for the grand Austerity prizes like 50% pension cuts, higher retirement ages, loss of social services etc in IMF's Cracker Jack box. Surprise surprise.
In other important news, though you wouldn't know it from the corporate press,
Head of EU intelligence, Commodore Georgij Alafuzoff, rules out Russian military presence in Ukraine
"In my opinion, its mostly people who live in the region, people from the region who are not satisfied with the current state of affairs... concerned citizens"
"In my opinion, its mostly people who live in the region, people from the region who are not satisfied with the current state of affairs... concerned citizens"
as reported in the EU press.
Finnischer militärischer Geheimdienst: keine russischen Sicherheitskräfte auf ukrainischem Territorium
Von petrapez | Veröffentlicht: 15. April 2014
In einem Interview mit dem finnischen Rundfunk YLE sagte Alafuzoff, dass es in der Region nicht zu aktiven Feindseligkeiten und zu keiner gross angelegten Präsenz von russischer Seite gab. Meiner Meinung nach, sind es vor allem die Menschen, die in der Region leben und nicht mit dem aktuellen Stand der Dinge zufrieden sind, so Admiral Alafuzoff.
https://www.radio-utopie.de/tag/george-alafuzoff/
Von petrapez | Veröffentlicht: 15. April 2014
In einem Interview mit dem finnischen Rundfunk YLE sagte Alafuzoff, dass es in der Region nicht zu aktiven Feindseligkeiten und zu keiner gross angelegten Präsenz von russischer Seite gab. Meiner Meinung nach, sind es vor allem die Menschen, die in der Region leben und nicht mit dem aktuellen Stand der Dinge zufrieden sind, so Admiral Alafuzoff.
https://www.radio-utopie.de/tag/george-alafuzoff/
Interview is here in Finnish: http://yle.fi/uutiset/eun_tiedustelujohtaja_venaja_ei_ole_asemoitunut_sotilaallisesti_ukrainaan/7190544
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
106 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Ukraine’s Offensive Falters as Elite Units Defect to Pro-Russia Side [View all]
bemildred
Apr 2014
OP
In Other Words, Ma'am: 'Vote For The Right Lizard, Or the Wrong Lizard Might Get In'
The Magistrate
Apr 2014
#49
Ukraine on first day of gas reverse resumption from Poland imports almost 4 million cubic meters gas
dipsydoodle
Apr 2014
#20
Clearly, Sir, A Shooting Matter, That: About The Worst Thing Ever, At Least Since Last Tuesday
The Magistrate
Apr 2014
#85
Apparently there's another 50 armoured vehicles on their way to that region.
dipsydoodle
Apr 2014
#11
when Vlasov defected to Germany in the summer of 1942, the Soviets had no army left...?
LanternWaste
Apr 2014
#32
Vlasov was surrounded and captured, then he defected, no one is doing that today.
happyslug
Apr 2014
#76
Awful, just terrible. Putin may be successful, unfortunately..but this entire new chapter
Jefferson23
Apr 2014
#28
This has been going on for days. Ukranian military units defecting and switching sides
Catherina
Apr 2014
#31
Well, it's the employee mentality, they think they are dealing with employees.
bemildred
Apr 2014
#42
I'm sorry the pro-war propaganda from the West isn't as convincing as it used to be n/t
Catherina
Apr 2014
#83
If I Thought Invasion An Actual Danger, Sir, I Might Have Some Sympathy With That Line
The Magistrate
Apr 2014
#51
It also needs to be considered that a Ukraine that is part of Russia, cannot
bemildred
Apr 2014
#106
General Breedlove, NATO EU chief "no evidence of a strategic Russian buildup on Ukraine's borders"
Catherina
Apr 2014
#72
I Would Prefer Confirmation, Ma'am, From a Source Not Bought And Paid For By Moscow
The Magistrate
Apr 2014
#77