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janterry

(4,429 posts)
Tue Jun 22, 2021, 04:01 PM Jun 2021

By conflating gender and sex we undermine sporting competition [View all]

Laurel Hubbard, 43, is poised to become the first transgender Olympian after being picked for New Zealand’s weightlifting team.

From article:

By conflating gender and sex, I would argue we fudge the very reason we have sex categories in sport: the male performance advantage. Without a separate category for females, there would be no women in Olympic finals. Even in the 100m, one of the events with the smallest performance gap, approximately 10,000 men worldwide have personal bests faster than the current Olympic female champion, Elaine Thompson-Herah (10.70sec). And it’s not just track and field. While the smallest attainment gap between the sexes comes in running, rowing and swimming events (11-13%), this moves up to 16%-22% in track cycling, and between 29% and 34% when it comes to bowling cricket balls and weightlifting. The difference in punch power between men and women is a whopping 162%. Not, then, to be sniffed at. But the International Olympic Committee tweaked its guidelines in 2015 to allow athletes such as Hubbard to compete in the women’s category, provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months. Transgender men face no restrictions in the male category for obvious reasons.

Increasingly, however, research is showing that these testosterone guidelines do not guarantee the “fair competition” the IOC was hoping for. Ross Tucker, a sports scientist and expert on testosterone advantage in sport, succinctly sums it up: “Lowering of testosterone is almost completely ineffective in taking away the biological differences between males and females.” There is just no proof that reducing testosterone takes away the advantage of muscle mass, strength, lean body mass, muscle size or bone density. Despite this new evidence from Drs Emma Hilton and Tommy Lundberg, the IOC has put off any further decisions making until after Tokyo and left it up to individual sports federations to decide their own transgender policies. Some have been bold, others have written their policies alongside trans lobby groups without consulting women’s organisations or sports scientists. Those questioning the narrative are accused of transphobia – as Martina Navratilova and Nicola Adams have discovered.

The most common argument used in favour of inclusion is that sport is all about natural advantage and that being a trans woman is just another factor to add to the list alongside Michael Phelps’s size 14 feet and double-jointed ankles. The problem with this argument is that we don’t compete according to foot-size, but we do protect the integrity of women’s sport because the advantage gained from male puberty is so comprehensive in terms of speed, power, strength and so much else. Phelps’s feet gave him an advantage as a swimmer; male puberty gave him a much bigger advantage across the board. At the Beijing Olympics, he won the 200m freestyle in 1.42.96, breaking the world record. Federica Pellegrini broke the women’s world record at the same distance, finishing in 1.54.82 – a time that wouldn’t have got her into the men’s semi-finals. It wasn’t internalised misogyny slowing her down.

also: "Serena Williams told David Letterman that were she to play Andy Murray, “I would lose, 6-0, 6-0, in … maybe 10 minutes”. Male puberty and androgens give an advantage in a different stratosphere.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/22/by-conflating-gender-and-sex-we-undermine-sporting-competition

71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why is this transphobic shit allowed here? nt AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #1
+1. I wish DU would clean up our act re this alt-right discriminatory propaganda. (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #3
It's from the Guardian janterry Jun 2021 #5
LOL (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #6
oh janterry Jun 2021 #7
Yup, (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #8
Is there no male advantage in most sports involving muscle strength? Dream Girl Jun 2021 #9
You think people go through gender affirming treatment for advantage in sports? AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #10
Faux science is the way to dehumanize, sports is the medium because it lets one ignore humaneness. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #11
Is this faux science? janterry Jun 2021 #12
COVID Infection rates differ between different ethnic groups. Should we compel some to vaccinate? FreepFryer Jun 2021 #14
The first author is a transwoman and focuses on inclusion janterry Jun 2021 #16
This isn't about science and those pushing this discriminatory tripe know it. As do the public. nt FreepFryer Jun 2021 #18
It is to me janterry Jun 2021 #20
That's very clear. How many dozens of these articles have you posted here making this claim? nt FreepFryer Jun 2021 #23
10 comments in this thread asserting..... janterry Jun 2021 #24
Articles. Not comments. Dozens on DU posted here by you on this exact topic and this exact argument. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #28
Again, I am here to discuss science janterry Jun 2021 #29
Sure. (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #31
Wat are you even saying? Dream Girl Jun 2021 #27
Did I say or suggest that anyone would go through gender reassignment in order to obtain an Dream Girl Jun 2021 #21
And there it is..."Cede even that to men" AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #35
I am pro-woman. Dream Girl Jun 2021 #36
Unless they're trans apparently AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #37
Can women have anything at all? Dream Girl Jun 2021 #41
You made a similar comment earlier, that transwomen were men taking something from women. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #42
Apparently you do care, because you call them men AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #43
The science is increasingly clear janterry Jun 2021 #13
"Just" science. There is no such thing. See Tuskegee, et al. (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #15
nonsense janterry Jun 2021 #17
Exactly. This anti trans argument in sports is nonsense, dehumanizing and dividing w no cause. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #19
No, you are making a nonsense argument janterry Jun 2021 #22
Untrue. (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #25
I have given you CLEAR science to peruse janterry Jun 2021 #26
No, you've reposted dozens of articles on DU claiming a scientific basis for discrimination. (Nt) FreepFryer Jun 2021 #30
One by a transwoman janterry Jun 2021 #32
Those wrapping themselves in science in order to wield power sure seem to care about how one does. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #33
well, take your complaint to her janterry Jun 2021 #34
Hate? Discrimination? Dream Girl Jun 2021 #38
Are transwomen women? AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #39
They are trans women. Dream Girl Jun 2021 #48
Got it - you're a transphobe. AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #49
I guess that means you really have no credible argument if you have to resort to name calling. Dream Girl Jun 2021 #56
Why should I waste arguments? AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #57
Cut this transphobic crap. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #51
This is about the science of sports janterry Jun 2021 #53
Sure Jan AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #58
The post I responded to was one that insisted on modifying the term woman Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #61
And yet it stands here. AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #59
It's all in the mix. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author FreepFryer Jun 2021 #2
Here is another very telling hit piece written by Tanya Aldred, the author of the Guardian piece. FreepFryer Jun 2021 #4
I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Laurel will win. Scrivener7 Jun 2021 #40
Kuinini 'Nini' Manumua janterry Jun 2021 #46
Not sure how a New Zealand competitor would displace someone wearing a "USA" jersey AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #50
You'll have to research how people qualify in weightlifting janterry Jun 2021 #52
In many countries dual-citizens pjpossum Jun 2021 #66
But Tonga and the United States aren't New Zealand AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #67
She may have dual-citizenship or ancestral ties with both. Look her up. pjpossum Jun 2021 #68
I did AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #69
She may have dual-citizenship with New Zealand pjpossum Jun 2021 #70
She deserved better. n/t jcmaine72 Jun 2021 #54
Who did? AZSkiffyGeek Jun 2021 #60
It's not that simple, but Ingloriusbastrd1 Jun 2021 #44
This issue is complicated & has nuance pjpossum Jun 2021 #45
going through male puberty appears janterry Jun 2021 #47
I agree. pjpossum Jun 2021 #55
Ross Tucker writes janterry Jun 2021 #63
Thank you for that post. Yes, this is a highly complex & nuanced issue hlthe2b Jun 2021 #64
Thank you for your thoughtful responce. pjpossum Jun 2021 #65
Agreed Ellen Forradalom Jun 2021 #71
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