At what point is this country finished?

[SHRED]

The DOJ appears to be heading towards working for tRump. They are almost there.
When that is complete it is game over isn't it?

[LonePirate]

1. November 8, 2016

[SHRED]

2. Well...there's that.

[PJMcK]

7. Nailed (n/t)

[cwydro]

32. Ditto.

[Cosmocat]

34. THIS - It's the last stand

nm

[SammyWinstonJack]

63. Nov. 7, 2000.

[cilla4progress]

3. I think we are going to end up like

One of those countries with former glory, former progressive vibrant culture. We progressives will have to move underground for awhile.

Remember the Bush years? Seem halcyon now.

This is my most favorable prognosis.

[roamer65]

18. Borders will rearrange.

Think Yugoslavia.

Dump is a lot like Slobodan Milosevic.

[samplegirl]

4. Pretty much what was reported

On Rachael last night. Are people not paying attention?

[C_U_L8R]

5. When we stop fighting, of course

No fucking prisoners, okay.

[struggle4progress]

45. +

[TreasonousBastard]

6. No one knows-- we've survived worse and will likely survive this. But...

as resilient as we have been, we don't know how the future will unfold.

[Pope George Ringo II]

19. I'd compare it to concussions

Sometimes it's not an individual blow, but the collective toll of a series of abuse. i think the falls of past empires generally make more sense in that light, so I worry more about the running total than an individual hit.

I'm not encouraged, if we're honest.

[TreasonousBastard]

36. Every successful nation, or empire, has eventually lost its energy...

maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not, but it's certainly true.

[Pope George Ringo II]

43. It's a good thing if they failed so that they could make way for your turn on top.

Otherwise, it can suck. Especially if you're the one who has to hand off your power to somebody. And even more especially if you don't get to hand it off to somebody basically friendly like the British did.

[cilla4progress]

28. What have we survived

That's worse?

[TreasonousBastard]

33. Eh? Just in my lifetime there was the Kennedy assassination...

J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon, Jim Crow and race riots with the entire South switching to the Republican Party, Viet Nam and Johnson quitting over it, Reagan trying to undo the Great Society, Clinton's impeachment...

And, before me last century there were the Trustbusters, Depression, two world wars, suffragettes getting the vote...

The list goes on. As a nation, we have survived more upheavals than Trump is capable of.

The only thing we should fear is that we lose our will to go on.

[Cosmocat]

37. THIS is SO not just about 45

We have NEVER had 1/3 of the country completely brainwashed and control, and NEVER have had the Third Estate fully compromised, and we have NEVER had another country have control over our POTUS and numerous members of Congress.

[TreasonousBastard]

40. Not quite true...

Look up Yellow Journalism and W.R. Hearst. And the Herald vs Times war.

Once, s huge chunk of the country actually seceded. More recently, Reagan won twice.

The Russia thing is new, but it remains to be seen what the long-term effect is.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

53. The Russia thing is the least we have to worry about.

The central issue is that Trump and those around him are gleefully dismantling much of what is good about this country, and installing judges who will be in place for the next 40 years.

While Russia was undoubtedly involved in the 2016 election, constantly harping on Russia does not allow focus on the real problems I stated above.

[TreasonousBastard]

54. So did Nixon and Reagan, but the genius of our system is...

that we can undo these things, or at least reduce their power.

Remember, a large part of the country believes that what we consider good things to be the work of the devil-- the same way we think of theirs. Keep the dialog alive.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Nixon gave us the EPA.

He'd be considered far too liberal even for the Democrats today.

I actually date the beginning of the end to Reagan. He was the one that started the drumbeat of government is bad, bad I tell you!

He also fired the Air Traffic Controllers, with the acquiescence of Land Kirkland, then head of the AFL-CIO, which accelerated the decline and fall of unions.

The huge difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Dems think it's right and good to help each other out: food stamps, social security, medicare, medicaid. Republicans buy into the bullshit that everyone must stand on his or her own, no help from that nasty government.

Of course, we need to remember that Clinton helped cripple welfare as we knew it.

[Cosmocat]

62. We cannot talk about Russia enough

First, it goes beyond just "russia."

It is indicative of a party so craven and out of control that it would not think twice about getting in bed with our primary global opponent (outside of China) to win elections.

It is indicative of how lost our moral compass is as a country that this is so apparent and 1/3 the country accepts it because it benefits their "team."

YES, they are dismantling much of what is good about our country and packing our courts with a mix of complete incompetents and ideologically deranged loons.

This is a major problem, but they have been doing that to a lesser extent for decades now, and it is a MUCH simpler concept to drive home to the "middle 1/3" that the GOP are treasonous scumbags in bed with Putin than to rail on packing the courts when 95 out of 100 Americans could not even begin to explain the basic heirarchy of our judicial system if their lives depended on it.

The problem is our party does not have the sand to take the gloves off and battle, even when we completely own the high ground on an issue as clear as this.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

66. What I'm far more concerned about is the damage that

is being done to this country by the rollbacks, the changes in legislation, the gutting of scientists in all agencies, and so on. These are things that will not easily be undone. By January 20, 2021, this country will be a far different place. One that will never again be the way it was. Say goodbye to clean air, drinkable water, and even minimally secure retirement.

That "middle 1/3" are people who are obstinately resistant to facts.

For months now people here on DU have been crowing that various members of the administration are going down, that any day now there will be indictments and lots of people will be hauled off to jail. Unless I've missed something, that hasn't happened yet. Four so far. Yeah, people keep claiming there are sealed indictments just waiting to be served, but I'll believe that when they are served.

Even as it becomes more and more obvious that Trump is dangerously deranged, he still gets to appoint awful people to judgeships, where they will remain for thirty, maybe forty or more years. I don't know if it would be at all possible to undue any of those appointments. And the people he appoints to head up agencies usually want nothing more than to destroy that agency, or turn it into a patsy for industry. Meanwhile, good and talented people at the agencies are leaving in droves. Lots of those positions are being left empty.

So in the end it doesn't matter if Russia hacked every single voting machine in the country, or if Trump promised who knows what to the Russians. What matters is that this country is being destroyed day by day, hour by hour.

Personally, I think rioting in the streets would be a good move.

[Cosmocat]

61. I'll concede the civil war

But not the media issue, and certainly not people voting for Reagan.

He was horrible policy wise, but was a statesman, and was not literally the most repugnant human being on the planet.

We are already a developing religious fascist state, and if we don't have a massive, federal and state house cleaning in November it's over.

[Pope George Ringo II]

42. I'd also mention the 1861-65 unpleasantness

Full-blown Civil War for four years, then fallout with the Klan terrorists and their sympathizers for generations afterwards.

Not saying nice things about Trump--and he might start a nuclear war with France or somebody yet--but let's not minimize two-thirds of a million Americans murdered and another half-million maimed over the legality of owning human beings. Just the butcher's bill is pretty hard to top.

[uponit7771]

38. The people who investigated JFK's murder weren't working with the Russians

[TreasonousBastard]

41. But it seemed like they weren't for us, either.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

8. Continue the resistance.

Even if it costs us our lives.

But also let us all work together so that it does not come to this. We each have a role to play to continue to speak the truth to power.

As in the Lord of The Rings trilogy, the Battle at Helm's Deep and before Minas Tirith, Evil did not prevail. Trump and Congressional Republicans will not prevail in their trying to send this country into darkness.

[Grammy23]

9. I dont know but I think it began the moment tRump and the Russians

began their grand plan to put him in as a President. Things have only gone downhill since then. We’ve been led to believe that the truth would win out eventually, that we could rely on our Congress but all of that has proven to not be true. I am really disillusioned about all of them. I really thought that at some point they’d come through for “we the people”. But It was a misplaced trust. They are involved in the scheme, the coverup and the MONEY. So we cannot rely on any of them to help end this nightmare. I am not sure who will help us. It does not look good for us.

First, I want to cry. And then, dry my eyes and find another place to live out what is left of my life. Sad but it is how I feel.

[mnhtnbb]

50. You're not alone

in feeling like living out the rest of your life elsewhere.

I am toying with the idea of living in several European countries over a year to see if I'd want to move to one. Problem is I'm stuck in NC until I can get divorced and because of NC law re divorce, the soonest that can happen is early 2019. A year in Europe runs to 2020 and by then I'm pushing 70. Don't know if. I have patience or energy to actually move abroad at that point.

Tough decision to up and leave at 70.

[Grammy23]

58. You got that right.

My husband and I are both 69. The idea of moving abroad is very appealing. We have been tourists in Italy and France. I’ve visited Belgium and Amsterdam. My husband would be willing (I think) to move sight unseen to Amsterdam based on things he has read and I have told him. The process is a lot more complicated than just selling everything and moving there. So I am not sure such a big move will ever happen for us but for me, it helps me keep my sanity. I have to have something to hold onto. It sucks to be this age and feel like leaving is our best option. But honestly, it is how we feel. It helps to come here and know there are others thinking and feeling the same thing.

[mnhtnbb]

59. France is top of my list.

I would also consider Italy, Spain, and Portugal. I can get by in French and Spanish but don't speak any Italian or Portuguese. I also have friends in France.

I know one DU'er and his wife who are planning to move to France and another one who is seriously thinking about it. All retirement age.

Still, it's not an easy process.

[struggle4progress]

10. It will be not finished until enough of us become couch potatoes

[Johnny2X2X]

11. Look to Russia

Putin controls the vote and has a vice grip on public opinion. About 110 families control 98% of the wealth in that country, 40% of the population lives on $10 a day or less, 80% of the population lives below the poverty line. Putin has an 80% approval, that's how strong propaganda is.

Once they control the entire media (which is what they are working towards), they can do whatever they want and enjoy 80% approval ratings. Millions of seniors thrown in the street to die and starve. No health care coverage for anyone but the rich. $2 an hour for wages, tens of millions of Americans living in huts. With the right propaganda those starving and dying people will say, "{but I really like our President."

[CrispyQ]

13. 21st Century Feudalism - that's the goal.

Only the rich will have leisure time & nice things.

[2naSalit]

57. +1

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. Do you own your house?

prove it

Oh, no problem you say, there is a GOVERNMENTAL office that will help you prove it



Stupid fucking people, Putin is on his way and the mercers and kochs and the rest...own your own home, sure, right

[Skittles]

14. America is stronger than Donald Fucking Trump

yes we are

[angel823]

64. and stronger than the Republicans

Direct all your donations, time, social networking, etc. to getting qualified voters registered and to the polls, in every city, county and state, so that we elect as many progressive candidates as possible to local, state and national office in 2018. That's it. Line drawn. Represent.

We are stronger than Donald Fucking Trump, and the entire fucking republican party.

Angel in Texasperated
Home to Ann Richards, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan

[CrispyQ]

15. Considering that the republican congress is already working with him,

yes, game over. How many more judicial appointments before the muck is everywhere? And one more SCOTUS nom as bad as Gorsuch, & the Con will find worse, he will. I wouldn't put it past him to nominate Roy Moore, just to shit all over everything. I'm not feeling very confident of the USA's chances. My non-political friends are alarmed but completely confident that Mueller will take the Con down & then everything will be okay again. Red pill/blue pill.

[UnTied]

16. Well, Don't depend upon the News media to tell you

when it's over. They will profit off the "horserace" until they are replace totally by state media. The game is over when we as citizens lay back accept as fate that we lost our experiment in democracy. I see that as a long ways off. People are organizing all around the country. It starts locally and moves up the ladder. Get organized locally right now. The Blue Wave doesn't happen without you.

[SHRED]

17. I like this

Thank you 💜

[pbmus]

26. And AMEN...

[highplainsdem]

20. Not yet. Don't underestimate either the citiziens who oppose Trump, or the honest public servants,

especially with the DOJ and intel community, who are determined to stop him.

And don't underestimate the intel communities of our long-time allies, either, who have a LOT of info on Trump, and who might see that it gets out if they think we need that help. They're watching Trump and Putin as a combined threat.

[UnTied]

21. Great Point!

The world is watching nervously. The status quo whether nationally or globally doesn't like disruption. And Trump and Putin are major disruptions. Foreign intel from allies could be the final saving grace. I read foreign press often because is has less skin in the game than American sources. Keep an eye on on foreign sources for differing perspectives.
Try these free online papers with translations
https://study.com/articles/World_Watch_10_Free_Online_International_Newspapers.html

[lunatica]

22. When the Supreme Court selected Bush and no one did anything about it

What could anyone do? File a lawsuit and let the Supreme Court decide the outcome again?

It set the stage for the 18 years after that.

[roamer65]

23. The 2018 midterms are do or die.

[LenaBaby61]

56. The 2018 midterms are do or die.

I KNOW there could be a blue wave in 2018, because people are resisting, organizing at the state and local levels, engaging themselves more than normal and many like us here are extremely angry with what they're seeing from this tReasonous pig in the White House. I have friends who tell me all the time that their relatives/friends who voted for fatso are ALL having buyer's remorse. Yep, I still can't believe it: ALL having buyers remorse. Not a few, but ALL (NOT a ton of folks, but a nice sampling from Ohio, to West Va. FL. and PA.)

The reality though:WILL our votes be counted fairly and accurately? thuglicans control voting across most of this country. They mostly control how votes are collected and how they're counted etc. Will our blue wave votes go missing like they did in PA., WI. and MI.? We still have voter cross-checking, voter-purging, and now expanded voter ID'ing in places like Texas. I'm EXTREMELY UNEASY with the voting apparatus across most of this country, and don't look now but if the SC rules favorably for thuglicans ahead of the 2018 mid-terms on the gerrymandering case in WI., then say good-bye to WI. and other states from the blue column for almost damn good. No telling how they'll be "rigging" elections all across this country (With help from the ruskies). It's bad enough that thuglican Yertle stole that SC seat from Pres. Obama and gave it to fatso all wrapped up in a bow, and that he put Goursuch on the Supreme Court, making it a 5-4 righty court. How many more SC appointments will fatso have before he's out of the White House? What if it ends up a 7-2 right-leaning court before he's done? The lower courts are being filled with lifetime appointment RWNJ's right now.

ALL of those court appointments are going to do some MAJOR damage in the trajectory of our country on a civil rights level for a LONG time, even if fatso leaves the White House before 4 years are up.

[el_bryanto]

24. the United States is an idea; it can't be killed as long as people still work to build it or rebuild

it. If we all give up or all get killed than it dies.

Bryant

[Pathwalker]

25. 12/12/2000

n/t

[underpants]

27. Have no fear it's fine. I bought one of these just last summer

Come on! You don't get more Murkan than THAT!!

[roamer65]

29. Its over when no one will buy our Treasury paper.

Interest rates will skyrocket and hyperinflation will take hold.

That will be the end.

[Meowmee]

30. I dont know but

Last edited Sun Jan 7, 2018, 04:06 AM - Edit history (1)

it’s defintely not over by any means yet. 65 mil of us voted against this and we won’t give up.

[Different Drummer]

31. It was unofficially over on 11/8/16.

We just need the end to set us free (to paraphrase a line from Metallica).

[Solly Mack]

35. When good people stop fighting.

You keep fighting even when it seems like you're losing. Even if you are losing. Even if you do lose.

Yeah, it sucks, but what else are you going to do? Roll over? Give up? Join the insanity?

[oberliner]

39. The country is fine

Stay positive - things will get better.

[struggle4progress]

46. All Things Must Pass

[fescuerescue]

44. Everything passes. We said the same thing during the Bush years.

Sometime in the next decade or two. We'll be dealing with the new great evil, whoever that is.

And Trump in the rearview mirror will look the same as Nixon and Bush do to us now. Look at the DU archives if you have a few minutes. The fear and angst that we suffered then was no different than it is now. Today, we barely even mention Bush.

And that's when we'll be wondering how we'll will ever get past whatever it is that is going on then.

[Takket]

47. i sort of see the USA as a ship taking on water.

We are still afloat but in peril. A target February 2019 as the point of no return, when we have taken on too much water and the ship will sink. If we reach that point and drumpf is still the president and the congress sworn in in January 2019 cannot or will not impeach him, we are done for.

[Hekate]

48. Not today. Resist. When we stop resisting, it's over. It ain't over.

Show up. Resist.

Persist.

[mvd]

49. The sheer number of people against Trump should prevent full on fascism

A lot of danger signs are there though. Media bashing, narcissistic and unstable fake President, generals in traditionally civilian posts, lack of concern for democracy, hyper nationalism, concentrating wealth with the elite, appealing to white supremacists. Must be watchful.

[OliverQ]

65. Not if people aren't willing to rise up and stop it.

Where are the marches in the streets? Where is the crowd going down to the Capitol demanding impeachment and investigating Republicans. Where is the General Strike to shut down the economy?

Americans are apathetic and whine about how bad things are, but won't rise up to stop it. Imagine what France would be doing right now in a similar situation. They'd have shut down the country and be rolling Guillotines out into the streets.

[mvd]

67. If he tries to assert full control or anything like that..

I would think they would need another civil war to prevail. At least I hope so. America does have a tendency to wait too late, but it has triggers.

[OliverQ]

68. The problem is most of the guns belong to the Trump supporters.

Not sure the North would win another Civil War.

[mvd]

69. Plenty of Democrats with guns

Hopefully not needed.

[bucolic_frolic]

51. Many times in history

the rich elites have plundered the poor.

Ignore what historians tell you about events, people, boundaries. We focus on them to tell us what happened, and because of the tragedy of history. But focus on the money, the financial flows, the plundering, the economic reasons.

"Let them eat cake!" was repeated over and over. The Revolutions of 1848, Garibaldi's revolt in Italy. Look at the opulence of Tzar Nicholas, the rebellions of 1906. What went on in Nazi Germany, economically? The generals ran their own plunder departments. And don't forget the Politburo lived in dachaus on the Black Sea.

Don't know how you protect yourself or what you've got, but it's coming.

[bronxiteforever]

52. The next financial crisis & the next election will tell

The rethugs tax bill is destroying the currency by hyperinflating the deficit at the same time as cutting the legs out of our party. There are no bullets left in the fed reserve chamber.
China usually buys our debt, I don’t see that happening now. I foresee the next financial disaster ( and it will certainly come as they always do) with a bankrupt government unable to act so as to soften the blow.

If we lose 2018, and the Congressional subpoena power, there will be no stopping their takeover.
If we get lucky and get a unifying progressive leader in 2020 we can straighten the ship out. That person will need mad skills to accomplish the rebuild.

And while we fall apart internally, the world changes and goes on. The other powers won’t wait for us to recover. Americans forget we have to compete with other countries. They won’t sit on their asses while we yet again watch the rethugs discuss the sin of homosexuality or other such culture war bullshit. We are losing international trade, immigrant brain power and labor force.

As Bob Dylan wrote, it’s not dark yet but it’s getting there.

[democratisphere]

55. Depends on whether "we" do something about it or not!

They have gone rouge.