General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA pastor admitted a past sexual incident with a teen. His congregation gave him a standing ovation
On Dec. 1, as headlines across the country blared with news about Matt Lauers surprise firing from the Today show for sexual misconduct, a woman named Jules Woodson tapped out a short email. It ran only about 80 words but was nearly 20 years in the making. Do you remember? the subject line read.
Do you remember that night that you were supposed to drive me home from church and instead drove me to a deserted back road and sexually assaulted me? Woodson wrote. Do you remember how you acted like you loved me and cared about me in order for me to cooperate in such acts, only to run out of the vehicle later and fall to your knees begging for forgiveness and for me not to tell anyone what had just happened?
She closed with three words and a hashtag. Well I REMEMBER, the email said. #me-too.
The message landed in the inbox of Andy Savage, a pastor at Highpoint Church, an evangelical Memphis mega-congregation that draws more than 2,000 Sunday worshipers. The 42-year-old checked all the right boxes for a rising minister: biblically trained, handsome and CrossFit-cut; an attractive wife and five young sons; social media savvy and unafraid of speaking on topics such as sex. Savages career had begun as a college student working at a church outside Houston, a congregation Woodson attended as a high school student.
When Savage failed to respond to Woodsons December email, she took her allegations public on Jan. 5, posting a detailed account of the alleged sexual assault on a blog for abuse survivors. Evangelical circles started spinning with reports of a then-college student forcing a sexual encounter with a student.
Yet instead of following the course of so many recent sexual harassment scandals reports that have toppled careers in Hollywood, media and politics Savages public outing seems to have failed to upset his position. In a message on the churchs website, he admitted to a sexual incident with a high school student at the time. Highpoints main pastor, Chris Conlee, also released a statement supporting Savage. And last Sunday, the pastor addressed his congregation about the allegations, but provided little detail.
For those who are wondering how anyone could still support Roy Moore after what he did. Some wingnuts actually support this behavior and may even envy it.
Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts). . . . . garden variety Christians, but I took the standing O as a sign of forgiveness, not endorsement of the act.
IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)They're not the victims here.
Exactly.
Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)It's not just an opinion, it's a crime with legal consequences. Liberals generally support the victims in these cases.
Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)Wait a minute. Are you staying I support this guy's "apology"? Cuz that's what it sounds like.
Answer, please.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,838 posts)They are among us and they are loud.
Girard442
(6,087 posts)They could have forgiven him too and then made him assistant pastor. He was very charismatic, I've heard.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)He apologizes to his benefactors. It's all about the $$$$ No god intended.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Is that permission to sin?
Lochloosa
(16,081 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)Do it again? Repent and rinse clean slate again. They have no shame or remorse they are renewed
Call someone else a sinner or a couple's sincere gay loving relationship a sin ? That's ok and being judgy is just good Christian work
IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)consequence free. These are the same people who think draconian law and order punishments will deter crime somehow.
Girard442
(6,087 posts)...that it is quite possible to f*** things up so badly they can never be set straight. That puts a damper on some kinds of behavior. Pity we can't transplant that into Evangelicalism somehow.
Initech
(100,129 posts)"And Jesus said that it's ok to grabeth thine bosom and thine pussy."
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)from Jesus, that ends the issue. They can go on in their lives secure in the knowledge that they've been forgiven, and any pain and suffering the other person feels could be alleviated if only they'd accept Jesus, too. It's a nifty little mind trick. A person in the town I live nearish to was elected to a leadership position even after it came out he had molested a young child when he was a teenager. The justifications from his supporters -- but he's got a family now! and is so Christian! I'm sure he's forgiven! Who are any of us, really, to judge? -- made me fucking sick.
Orrex
(63,260 posts)I have no respect for cults, and cults with a built-in get-out-of-jail-free card are inexcusable.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)dawg
(10,625 posts)If someone really believes that Jesus willingly suffered and died for their sins, it should mean enough to them to make them want to be as worthy of that sacrifice as they can possibly be.
Such a person would never just continue to sin, and say, "Ooops, well I'm forgiven so it doesn't matter anyway."
And I know people will scream "No True Scotsman" fallacy. That's an internet favorite.
But I posit that someone doesn't really "believe" a thing, if none of the actions they take in their personal lives are consistent with it being true.
They are, instead, just following the cultural norms that are convenient for them to follow.
IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)Because guilt over something can ruin a person's life and cause worse behavior in the future. Addiction treatment programs often involve apologizing to people and seeking their forgiveness.
But this kind of blanket forgiveness from completely unaffected people is often abused. The lesson is that one can get away with bad things without consequences, it encourages more people to do bad things in the future and normalizes it.
I also get the people who feel that we should all leave the judging to God, but we also have a legal system with legal consequences. I just feel like this forgiveness is often fake and the person doesn't really believe they did anything wrong.
HAB911
(8,932 posts)and then write it off to forgiveness?