General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhile we all live through this nightmare, remember one important thing
It did NOT have to happen.
It was entirely avoidable.
Even with the Russians on the ground on election day flipping votes and millions of minority voters being turned away or not having their votes counted, it was still very easy to win this simply by NOT attacking our own candidate constantly.
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)2016 was kinda... Let's say it was not 2004 or 2008. Those were two of the best primaries in terms of the amount of great candidates running.
crazylikafox
(2,756 posts)IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)I just was not necessarily engaged in the primary process. I was not passionate about anyone in the field.
Response to IluvPitties (Reply #1)
Bernardo de La Paz This message was self-deleted by its author.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)A popular vote win of only 2.9 M votes is pretty pathetic. And no more excuses about gerrymandering and voter suppression of millions more votes -- we need someone a lot more qualified than a former Secretary of State and Senator.
enough
(13,259 posts)attacked our candidate. I knew a lot of Hillary supporters and a lot of Bernie supporters. Once Hillary won the primary, I never hear a single attack on her from anyone. Everyone knew how important it was that she should win.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)hundreds of alleged supporters say thousands of negative things about her.
All over the internet and in real life.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"If you must vote for a woman, vote for an actual feminist like Jill" And one who said she was phone banking for HRC, but reposted articles on FB from Kushner's zine attacking HRC during the general (Clinton campaign takes $10 a month out of elderly woman's bank account every month) and crap from the Intercept, because she so wanted her anger and disappointment about the primaries to be validated.
Others would totally say that they would "hold their nose and vote for HRC, but hey, what about this over here that shows I was right about her all along, she threatened Bernie's family when she called them by name at the convention, and did you hear what she said about Bill's accusers to her friend back in the 90's? Well I haven't heard much that's less feminist than that... I just hope that all of you that crowned her the candidate will be happy if Trump gets elected." and so on. From the convention on.
All those "I don't have pnuemonia" memes with Bernie's photo, and all those petitions demanding that she step down and let Bernie take her place ALL over FB. The rabid feeding frenzy when Comey's letter came out - the barely disguised GLEE in the "I'm concerned about this awful revelation about Hillary" concern trolling her on DU.
Yeah, all over the place.
JI7
(89,249 posts)Those fucked up types wanted trump to win
Sam McGee
(347 posts)You must have slept through the campaign.
enough
(13,259 posts)among a secret cell of other naive old democrats who never wondered.
Atticus
(15,124 posts)enough
(13,259 posts)experience.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)there and convince hundreds of electors to switch their votes to Bernie -- despite the fact that Hillary beat him by 4 million votes in the primaries.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)from Yesterday
From last year and during the general
Cary
(11,746 posts)I haven't seen a single one of them own it. I see only denialism from them
Chemisse
(30,811 posts)Or at least that there will be lots of angry division during the primaries.
We saw our first peek at this when there was discussion here about a possible Oprah run.
Let's hope next time people can refrain from criticism once the general takes hold.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)A really HUGE amount of that "attacking" was done by Russians. I am sure -- absolutely positive -- that a lot of people here and elsewhere don't really appreciate the sheer magnitude of these attacks. They were done by people on behalf of Russia who had extremely good English skills and posed as Americans, like a housewife from Idaho.
Very adept, skilled, manipulative, extraordinarily capable under their covers.
Some of them may have even been here -- how could we know for sure without a thorough forensic investigation??
They were all over Facebook, and they were all over Twitter. And they got millions upon millions of views, and no doubt persuaded many. All they had to do with push people in the direction they may have been leaning to start with.
So don't be so hard on your fellow Dems. Sure, some of them are guilty and deserve blame. But -- there was SO much going on that overshadowed that. Really.
And then there were other factors as well:
Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.
The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.
We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/
The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trumps shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation despite each working independently and using differing methodologies somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.
Ask any statistician and theyll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.
According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. Thats not how numbers tend to work in the real world.
On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.
Mr.Bill
(24,291 posts)should be screaming at the top of their lungs that electronic voting must be banned before the next election.
But not a peep from any of them.
One or two more elections like the one in November and they will have attained their real goal - people not even bothering to vote because they know it is rigged anyway.
byronius
(7,394 posts)It's everywhere, every Democratic candidate of note has remarked about this.
Not much they can do in the Red States. It's the nature of our construction, and a mistake. Elections must from this point forward be considered a matter of national security.
Really, everyone from Warren to Harris to Sanders to Clinton to Newsome to Brown -- everyone has strongly urged serious action be taken. The DNC called for a ban on electronic machines and tabulators before 2018.
It's not a matter of silence. The NSA knows what happened, clearly, from Reality Winner's leak. We all know. The problem is the same problem that prevents any action on any issue -- GOP control, and the use of that control to gain more control. They don't care about norms or people or the founding documents or the future.
They've gone mad.
Mr.Bill
(24,291 posts)as a Democratic Governor, and I have heard nothing from any of them. None of my Democratic state reps either. My state has a law that all polling places have to offer an electronic voting option even if they are using paper ballots.
We should be hearing it every day.
byronius
(7,394 posts)I know this is a hot-button issue for every Democrat I know.
California was rescued by the excellent SOS Debra Bowen, who replaced a GOP Diebold shill. I was at a hearing where as an assemblywoman she grilled the GOP SOS's lackey, William Wood. It was the most embarassing display of naked political primitivism I have ever seen; his answers ranged from nonsensical to pure mockery, and he surrounded himself with a little herd of GOP beta males for moral support.
She eviscerated and humiliated him. He was ignorant, utterly ignorant, and I swear she started glowing like an elf queen near the end. Brilliant woman.
She ran for SOS and won a few years later, and electronic voting died in California. Our exit polls match the totals, unlike any of the red states.
I agree, we should all be saying it every day. It's the Core Issue of any Democracy.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,291 posts)We are a paper ballot county up here. There is a state law that requires us to have at least one electronic voting device at each precinct and to inform voters it is available if they choose to use it. I worked at the polls for about five years, maybe 6 or 8 elections and saw a grand total of two people use it. And one of those times the operator couldn't get it to work.
I've never researched it, but I would not be surprised if the manufacturer of those machine lobbied for the law to require them at every polling place.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,291 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)A bill that Governor Brown signed last year sounds like a big step forward.
But it's true that your Senators and Reps could be speaking out more about all the other states.
http://beta.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-voting-systems-updated-bond-20170420-story.html
pressbox69
(2,252 posts)Will we have to watch the republican loser with less actual votes be sworn in as president? Wasn't 2000 and 2016 enough?
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)college system that said it was technically possible for someone who carried certain states to win the Presidency with only 23% of the popular vote. (Hillary had almost half.)
byronius
(7,394 posts)Democratic Underground was attacked by a foreign military-grade operation, just like the DNC and RNC and the Department of Defense and multiple other federal and state agencies. We know what they wanted; we know how they did most of it, even though the proof is not yet public.
Someone opposed to hand-counted paper ballots with rigorous multi-party observation and an instant and free recount process is helping the Russians harm the United States of America, period, end of story, that's how history will judge it.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Even if you hadn't quoted me.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Because it so succinctly and eloquently summarized what we were up against.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)mahannah
(893 posts)pressbox69
(2,252 posts)The republicans and the Russians robbed your vote, and mine.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)kentuck
(111,094 posts)FM123
(10,053 posts)Between the Russians and the Republicans - the R's are going to double down in their efforts to stop us, so we need to be eyes open ready with a capital R!
Orange Free State
(611 posts)Because of unions and coal mining.
I did work in the election for Clinton, though I voted for Sanders in the primary. Unless you live here, you cant believe the vitriolic hate for her. The usual Democratic Party workers did not come out, I was just about it, and women voters hated her as much or more than men. I know, I spoke to hundreds of them. The guy they sent in from Washington DC to run the campaign knew nothing about the area and was pulled shortly before the election to work somewhere they thought they could win.
You need to realize how much of this country is Mississippi. A successful candidate must have at least some Cledus appeal or we will have another Trump.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)I blame them. I wish nothing good for them. I'm not sorry for that.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)after his supporting Nazi's openly, calling all brown people shitholes for another, they love him more now.
I dare say we are at a very bad point of history with a lot of
ahead
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)Bernie Sanders was supportive of Hillary Clinton. Every last Democrat I know got behind her. I seriously suspect that the harshest and most persistent anti-Clinton voices on the self professed left were hostile foreign agents.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)I also dont have the same opinion you do of that person you mention. Cant say more.