When the democrats regain power, I want blood.

[shockey80]

I don't want to hear any bullshit about its time to move forward, lets not look back. Thats what Obama did and the republicans treated him like an asshole. Fuck that. I want them to impeach Shithole, I want to see a lot of subpoenas of Shitholes people that work in the Whitehouse. I want to see ethics investigations of certain republicans in congress for obstruction of justice. Fucking traitors.

I want blood, no forgiveness. When the democrats regain power I will be e-mailing them letting them know this.

[MineralMan]

1. I want positive action instead.

I don't want blood. I just want us to get down to doing the work that needs to be done.

One is positive. The other is negative. Getting revenge is a negative action. We need positive results.

[FreepFryer]

4. THIS. (n/t)

[cwydro]

10. Agree. nt

[Maven]

11. We can't have positive action without accountability.

We can't "get the work done that needs to be done" without addressing a dirty, corrupt, malevolent GOP that has crossed every boundary to seize power and dismantle our country, and will continue to do so unless dealt with. We cannot repair the damage at home and regain credibility internationally until Trump and all Republicans who enabled him suffer the legal and electoral consequences of their actions.

There needs to be a reckoning. If there isn't one, people will wonder why they bothered voting for Democrats.

The good news is that we can do both at the same time.

[hadEnuf]

57. That is exactly what needs to be done. Well put.

[dottie66]

70. yes we can and should do both

GOP needs to understand they can't get away with their treasonous actions. Our country should always come before personal power and gain.

[smirkymonkey]

82. Thread winner!

This, exactly!

[Pauldg47]

84. I want blood for any traitor who took Russian money...even Democrats...

...even our traitor vice prez who really knows what the hell is going on w Trimp' exploits. Please do not be nice.

[nolabels]

166. What is the difference between your money and Russian money?

Oh, yea, there are laws against foreign money and influence but with a U.S. Supreme Court ruling money is part of freedom of speech this also indicates monetary considerations are on even footing with even our basic civil rights. The fools that wear those robes are supposed to be philosophers that uphold the intent of the law. Today they are the nothing more than cheerleaders beholden to a corrupt system that brought them there. The nexus of this whole debacle we find ourselves in has been initiated by lawyers and their quest for more money.

This system has been built around our government that ensures we the citizens will at best only get second fiddle. The people's well being, health and livelihood are now only considered if it's convenient and not even then if they can make more money by doing it another way (like shipping factories overseas).

Trump is only the end result of where we find ourselves

[Hortensis]

89. Yes, we absolutely can.

And we'll have to settle for a few token orange suits for the other. This is a democracy. And even if we had jails to hold 60 million, democracies don't send their voters to jail.

[cab67]

93. THIS

[RandomAccess]

126. THANK YOU. That's precisely what got us here.

And it's been years and years and years coming. Probably back to the JFK assassination, if truth be told.

One thing everyone needs to learn, for their personal lives as well as public, civic lives: whenever ANYone wants to violate your boundaries, impose on you, restrict your rights, take advantage of you in any way, DO NOT ALLOW it because if you do, it's only the FIRST step they'll take to diminish you in whatever ways they can.

If someone sexually harasses you, it won't be the ONLY time if you let it go.

If you're a child and someone tries to "groom you" for exploitation, it won't be the last time they try and things will only proceed apace if they're allowed to go unchecked.

We've "allowed" Trump to get away with SO much, and he'll only get worse if he's not stopped (and maybe even if he is).

SILENCE CONDONES, and inaction even more so.

It's time we make our boundaries known in no uncertain terms, and INSIST that they be honored at all times.

Else, as my mother used to say: if you bend over, expect to be kicked.

[mnhtnbb]

133. Correct.

[MLAA]

134. Right on!

[Mopar151]

176. 100%

Correct. An ailing septic tank needs to be pumped out.

[xxqqqzme]

178. Agree - No more

taking 'things off the table'.

[shanny]

12. We are not Republicans; we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

And if there are no consequences for bad behavior, what prevents it from happening again?

OP is right. Obama looked forward and not back. Bankers got bailed out, spooks who authorized and promoted and performed torture didn't even get a wrist slap, lying liars who took us into an illegal, preemptive war (a war crime by itself iirc) got to go home and keep spewing their lies and bile. You want to know why 2010 was such a debacle? That's a big part.

[doubleplusgood]

68. +1000

[tinrobot]

16. Holding people accountable may not be positive, but it is required.

n/t

[MineralMan]

17. Of course, but "wanting blood" is seeking vengeance.

That's a different thing. People should be held accountable, but our first goal should be to implement positive things.

Seeking vengeance is a poor substitute for acting in positive ways, which may include prosecuting those who have committed crimes.

[Maraya1969]

28. Bush et al lied to go to war and over 1 million people are dead because of it.

Not one person in the Bush administration experienced any repercussions because of their actions.

That is the US's shame.

Now we have a group that used Russia, an enemy of the US, to buy its way into the White House and has been actively trying to ruin people, the environment, animals and the rule of la ever since. If we don't make them pay then we are saying that their actions were, 'OK"

So what if you say, "I want blood" It means the same as wanting justice for the evil that Trump's cabal has been doing for the last couple of years. I know it is just a difference of words but the Democratic party has been to damn soft for too damn long.

[MineralMan]

32. And yet, the Obama administration made a good deal of progress.

Time in government is a limited resource. One can use it in different ways. I prefer that it be used to promote progress. Often, seeking vengeance is wasteful of limited time and resources. There is much work to be done. I suggest we do it.

[orangecrush]

36. you are correct

entirely in this matter.

[Maraya1969]

37. It would not have been the administration who took up the criminal charges. It would have been the

justice department right?

Good administrations can do more than one thing at a time

[MineralMan]

39. The Justice Department is an executive branch department.

It is, indeed, part of the administration. Here's the thing: Had the Obama administration attempted to prosecute people from the previous administration, that would have limited its ability to get Congress to agree on other things. Worse, those prosecutions probably would not have ended in convictions. A waste of time.

Every President has to pick and choose among goals. I suggest that the next Democratic President focus on undoing the harm the previous one caused, rather than focusing on attempting to punish that administration. More will be accomplished, I can guarantee.

[shanny]

107. Personally I'm tired of the endless cycle

of D admins picking up the pieces of R admins, over and over again, and without even making the case that R policies are detrimental to the health of the nation, its people, its environment, even--especially!--its economy.

"Tax and spend liberals" is in the common parlance but what percentage of John Q Public is actually aware that Raygun and W tax cuts exploded the deficit they supposedly care so much about? How many know that the economy (that rising tide) always does better under Ds, going back to the Crash of 1929? How many know that if dimson bush was in office one month longer he would likely have finished with negative job creation, the first since Hoover? How many know that the stock market improved more under Obama in his first year (percentage-wise, which is really what matters) than it did under trump? How many know anything about FDR?

Sick.Of.It.

[certainot]

183. then dems are going to have to do something different - like stop ignoring rw radio

holding them accountable is impossible as long as americans are going to let 1500 think tank coordinated radio stations create an alternate reality in which hillary's emails are more important than global warming denial and pussy grabbing.

we're debating words like "blood" and "revenge" while gearing up for more russian troll operations, while ignoring the big problem.

limbaugh can use 600 radio stations to say "obama's head needs to roll" under the pretext of talking about firing people, or when talking about rep scalise being shot, complaining that "only republicans are getting shot", or when the state rw radio blowhard attacks the sanctuary city concept he suggests maybe the killer vigilante "purge" movie concept of being able to kill anyone for 12hrs one day a year isn't such a bad idea.

as long as dems blame fox instead of it big brother talk radio, the 300 shitholes on 1500 shithole radio stations are going to continue to lie us into trillion dollar globe altering wars, blame the victims, attack the 'good guys' like obama, mueller, clinton, sanders, and make excuses and rationalize the shithole racist traitors getting away with anything they want.

so we let hundreds of publicly funded college and pro sports teams endorse hundreds of the loudest of those stations while they blast the country with shithole expulsions designed in GOP and kremlin think tanks to make people like bush, palin, and trump acceptable for the white house.

and dems are prodded into complaining about lack of spine in their representatives while they make NO effort to end the free speech free ride 1500 radio stations get while they take free pot shots at obama clinton mueller and any prominent dem OR republican or media outlet that would dare to attack the shitholes.

[rainin]

185. This needs to be a separate op.

You've nailed it.

[shanny]

109. Supposedly the most autonomous executive branch department.

The one that is tasked with enforcing the law, not with pursuing a political agenda. I say they should do their jobs.

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. Obama was, is, one of the brightest, most responsible, most thoughtful

and productive human beings who ever lived ever.

His administration was mostly borderline geniuses and of course all were patriots.

Lets hope we can repeat that someday.

[Dr_Pretorius]

122. And look where it got us

All of Obama's progress undone and much more damage being done.

Playing nice with nazis gets you killed.

The U.S. should hold everyone accountable to the law. The OP worded it poorly, but holding criminals accountable for crimes is imperative.

[LenaBaby61]

180. Totally agree.

Dems have been speed bumps for thuglicans for FAR too long.

HOLD THUGLICANS ACCOUNTABLE!

[Mr.Bill]

45. Trump and his henchmen

in prison is the most positive thing that could happen in the history of this country.

We stand for justice first.

[mythology]

75. Ending slavery, universal suffrage, dealing with climate change

Making real amends with native people, dealing with sexual violence and equality for women and improving socioeconomic mobility. All more important things that we have or could do than locking up the keystone kops of the Trump administration.

[Mr.Bill]

119. They are not the Keystone Cops.

They are a Russian conspiracy to destroy our democracy. They belong in prison.

[paleotn]

65. but "wanting blood" is seeking vengeance

Your point?

[MineralMan]

67. I made my point quite clearly in replies to this thread.

You just disagree.

[paleotn]

73. You did.

and it appears to be that a reckoning isn't necessary. Normalizing their behavior is acceptable as long as we stay positive. I say bollocks! We agree to disagree, but I hope and pray my side wins hands down.

[druidity33]

154. It's a figure of speech, fer chrissakes. nt.

[whathehell]

194. Distinguishing "vengeance" from "justice" can be a difficult endeavor.

in my opinion.

[dalton99a]

35. Step 1: Root out the Trump vandals and arsonists. Trump appointees have to go.

[Oppaloopa]

112. I think it is very positive. Positive it will never happen again.

[lark]

22. Getting rid of the traitors for Russia isn't revenge, it's murder prevention.

Unless stopped, we will never have a free and fair election again, they have to be stopped in their tracks. If drumpf and Pence are both impeached and Ryan and McConnell get kicked out by ethics committee the head will be gone from the snake and the other Russian Repugs will no longer have the power to subvert our democracy.

Yes, there's lots of policies that will need to be changed ASAP, but both sets of action are necessary to restore our functional Democratic Republic.

[erronis]

86. O, Lark - I wish you were right but the rot extends deep into the body

Of the government.

Remember when w through Ashcroft brought in lots of shifty-eyed graduates from such fine academic institutions as Liberty U? These people are embedded. Thankfully dump-u's enrollees/graduates are probably too stupid to even be considered.

The russian/gop model is to insert their moles to eat away at democracy, slowly.

You can lose the top segments of the multi-headed tapeworm but the remaining segments can still cause the disease.

[atreides1]

42. It's a nice thought

But the reality is that the Republicans will continue to obstruct anything that a Democratically controlled Congress will try to introduce! What's needed is a two pronged plan, one that stresses positive action and another that puts the Republicans in Congress under a microscope...as well as investigations into the decisions of certain cabinet secretaries, like Zinke, Devos, Pruitt, and Sessions!!!

The Democrats have to keep the Republicans on a constant defensive footing, while pushing through positive bills that help the American people...

So, a little blood...isn't altogether a bad thing, and it will show that the Democrats are willing to fight for the people of America, all Americans!!!

This isn't a cotillion this is a fight and sometimes fights will cause bleeding!

[RKP5637]

54. K&R!!! n/t

[paleotn]

60. We tired that....

..with Iraq, the financial meltdown, etc. It didin't work.

[GaryCnf]

78. Might I suggest THIS positive action

When we gain a bare majority in both chambers of Congress and the presidency, the first thing we do is to change the rules to eliminate the filibuster entirely and all other checks (blue slips, etc.) on the power of the majority.

Then we go back and systematically reinstate every regulation, every national monument boundary, every Obama executive order, etc. AS LEGISLATION. It took less than a year to destroy an administrative and regulatory framework that it will take decades to recreate through the regulatory process. Re-instituting them as laws returns us to pre-Trump basically overnight AND in order to get rid of them again, Republicans will have to regain control of everything and repeal them.

Oh, yes, and then we pack the courts with Judges like Goodwin Liu, not Merrick Garland.

[MineralMan]

80. Sounds OK to me.

[GaryCnf]

144. Btw, you are spot on n/t

[Hortensis]

85. THIS. Thanks for your usual good sense and decency, MM.

[MineralMan]

88. Thank you for your reply!

I'm somewhat alarmed by some of the responses.

[Hortensis]

101. Well, seems "energized" Democrats means angry.

Could be far, far, far worse. And I'm sure most of us have not become estranged from principle, even if some threads do start sounding a lot more like vengeful trumpster fires than concerned Democrats.

[Downtown Hound]

148. Why are you alarmed at people crying out for some justice?

We've been raked and fucked over by the right for YEARS. Are you really alarmed that people are angry about that? Because I actually see that as a good thing and would be far more alarmed if people weren't angry. And I'm still curious as to what your idea of positive action is. Sure, it sounds like a nice concept. But what exactly is the concept? It's just a general term you use that has the air of "let's forgive and forget and move on." If that's the case then not just no, BUT HELL NO! There is no moving on without accountability. And if there is no accountability, I guarantee you we will be back here in 10-15 years if not sooner.

Now if I'm wrong, and you mean something else, then by all means, explain it to us.

[cab67]

94. So do I.

But we cannot let the current abomination happen again. And it will unless there's accountability.

We also have to repair our image abroad. Showing the rest of the world that we hold our leaders accountable for their actions is critical toward moving forward in this regard.

[D23MIURG23]

96. The Republican party has been rotting since the Bush years or maybe before

They've convinced themselves that lawlessness and corruption are acceptable, and that their own political gain is more important than the well being of the country. The Democrats have been complicit in this because when they get power they refuse to lance the abscess, and instead we get a bunch of hopey dopey talk about "moving forward".

We don't need another Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford did not "heal the country" by pardoning Nixon - he normalized lawlessness and put politicians above the rule of law. We need the opposite of that now. We need to make an example of this gang of traitors. They need to have the book thrown at them - they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, have their grafts confiscated and their careers torched. No pardons. No "impeachment is off the table". No appeasement.

If a RICO case can be made against the Republican party then it should be made. We aren't going to get any positive action on anything in this country until we teach the party of Nixon that crime doesn't pay.

[Initech]

104. Positive action has got us nowhere. We need to kick them in the balls.

This is beyond a mere atrocity - they are literally destroying the country and pulling it apart at the seems. They need to be punished for what they have done. I wouldn't mind seeing McConnell, Ryan, Trump, and Gorsuch hauled away in handcuffs. Maybe a few of their billionaire backers too.

[yurbud]

191. positive action based on compromise and comity got us nowhere

do away with filibuster, secret holds, and all that so that when Democrats have power, they can do what they want and let voters decide if they want to keep them.

And don't worry about getting a single fucking Republican vote.

Baby Bush did one thing right. When he wanted some piece of legislation done, he said, "This is what I want. You can either vote for it, or get left out." It was all horrible of course, but it worked until he tried to privatize Social Security.

[maxrandb]

118. I can't think of anything more positive

Or any action that would be more important to restoring decency and democracy to our nation then prosecuting these Retrumplican bastards.

If Retrumplicans don't want to be prosecuted, or see the corrupt pricks in Donnie Short Fingers admin and their corporate cronies sent to federal prison, they have ample opportunity to put a stop to this shitstain, shithole presidency.

[Plucketeer]

123. I'd settle for action of ANY kind

...shy of responding to their owners, of course.

[Progressive dog]

131. So do I

Although I don't want crimes to go unpunished or illicit gains remain in the hands of the crooks. That is not revenge, it would be more like justice.

[mahina]

136. +1000

[Downtown Hound]

145. And what exactly is positive action?

Because if it's forgive and forget and move on and let the criminals off the hook, then screw that. There's nothing positive about that. Justice is positive action. And justice is what we need. The Bush cabal murderers escaped it and here we are again. We can't keep letting the criminals off the hook.

[uponit7771]

157. Enabling what the KGOP has don is in ... NO WAY ... positive, not IN ANY WAY

[Tarheel_Dem]

158. Thank you. n/t

[GetRidOfThem]

160. Ditto!

I work in the developing world, and I have seen very bad conditions, not caused by the population I was serving. You could describe a country totally devastated by a Cat 5 Hurricane a Sh*thole in its current condition, but my job, and I think everybody's job is not to point fingers but to make things work.

By the way, I have been and worked in many of Trump's "Sh*thole" countires, and he is dead wrong. There are countries with real challenges, but in general the overall population of those countries may be more intelligent than the average American, simply because of the challenges it takes to survive. Question: How many languages does Donald Trump, President of the United States, master? How about the average African? (Answer to the second one: the colonial language prior to independence, the other colonial language the may have existed previously, the local tribal language (not a dialect), and, maybe the neighboring language (not a dialect). So at least four.)

I am sick of judgemental prejudices. I've worked in South Asia, the Caribbean, Africa too long to take this BS.

People are people. That's where it all starts.

[relayerbob]

161. 100% ABSOLUTELY

We need positive action. Begin hateful and vengeful is *their* way

The country, already in need of help, will need more help, not more hatred.

[PatrickforO]

163. I tend to agree with you, MineralMan.

I do think that those whom the investigation proves have committed crimes must be held accountable through due process, but we need the scale of justice here, not the sword.

[meow2u3]

171. Why not both?

I want both blood and positive action!

[BE10sCoach]

175. Disagree

couldn't disagree more, we always play nice and bipartisan and get our asses kicked. Blood should flow & Tepublican heads roll for their treason.

[yurbud]

188. some of it isn't revenge--it's protecting us from future reruns that get worse each time

and too often Democrats don't play hardball to advance positive action anyway.

Instead, they pre-compromise to get token GOP votes that never come.

[yurbud]

190. here's some positive action: do away with the filibuster, secret holds, and all such bullshit

that allows centrist Democrats to hide behind the skirts of republicans and avoid doing what their voters elected them to do.

When Dems are in power, they need to fully own what does and doesn't get done, so voters can decide which of them deserves to keep their jobs and which need to be primaried.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. We are...

We are going to need a court-like restorative justice body like Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa.

[FreepFryer]

5. Agreed. Done, however, without feeding into the Russia Today 'New McCarthyism' trope (n/t)

[KPN]

53. Exactly!

That was my immediate thought as well. This is a form of accountability that should be palatable to all here at DU. ... Positive action is worthless without some form of public accountability. What it will amount to is an incremental ratcheting back of some Trumpian things, not all and not completely. The GOP will simply stonewall real progress.

[superpatriotman]

3. Deservedly so

The un servatives deserve all they've got coming to them.

[shockey80]

6. Positive action for me is seeing a lot of people going to prison.

Shithole being impeached.

[47of74]

103. And them have to add on to ADX Florence in order to hold all the traitors.

[beachbum bob]

7. we need to elect democrats willing to FIGHT for the american people,

no longer about playing "nice" with those who have no moral or ethical values

[Blue_true]

8. I want democrats to ram through legislation with zero republican input.

If republicans complain, democrats should explain that is how republicans do legislation and appointments when republicans are in power.

[BigmanPigman]

14. I want them to get rid of the Electoral College and

somehow kill Fux Ruse. I don't think they can do anything about gerrymandering since it is a states' issue...or can they? And of course the biggie IMPEACHMENT!

[tinrobot]

18. Gerrymandering is in Federal courts right now.

North Carolina and Texas being the current examples.

Absolutely a Federal issue.

[BigmanPigman]

19. Good, I will add that to my wish list for the Dem agenda.

[Blue_true]

23. Getting rid of the EC also boils down as a state issue.

A 3/5th majority of state legislatures have to approve the change in a specific time window.

The best recourse is people voting at every opportunity, the right is simply better than our side at that and as a result, they get their way more than they should based upon numbers.

[BigmanPigman]

30. Damn!

That means we better make calls, knock on doors and get Dems to vote.

That is the theme of next weekend's 2018 Women's Marches on Jan 20 and 21. "Hear Our Vote" and "Power To The Polls". It is focusing on GOTV!

http://www.powertothepolls.com/anniversary.html?link_id=1&can_id=bfcadfa948ac07d9bf5b1038644acae5&source=email-the-womens-march-was-just-the-beginning&email_referrer=email_281275&email_subject=the-womens-march-was-just-the-beginning
https://www.womensmarch.com/
https://m.facebook.com/womensmarchonnyc/
https://qz.com/1139150/womens-march-2018-when-and-where-it-starts-in-new-york-los-angeles-chicago-philadelphia-san-francisco-and-more/

[Blue_true]

38. One problem is that even if democrats take over states.

I doubt that small population states will give up US Senate seats so that larger population states can get more seats. And republicans have shown that they are willing to change voting boundaries within states to gain more power, so if we give bigger states more power, republicans will work relentlessly to distort things and grab power. We will win consistently only we become as determined and relentless as the right is.

[BigmanPigman]

48. That seems to make a lot of sense.

"We have to become more relentless and determined" like the GOP. They are pros at it though since they have had several decades to fine tune their approach. We will need to take a crash course on how to catch up with them and learn their tactics.

[onenote]

189. There actually is less difference between small states and large states than people assume

The top ten states by population:

Senators: 11 Dem/9 Rep.
House: 110 Dem/124 Rep.
Gov. 4 Dem/6 Rep.


The bottom ten states by population:

Senators: 11 Dem/9 Rep.
House: 7 Dem/6 Rep.
Gov. 4 Dem./ 6 Rep.

[Blue_true]

196. Good set of facts.

I mentioned small states to make a point that even Democrats in small states are as less likely as republicans in those states to give up a Senate seat to larger population states.

[onenote]

187. Not happening.

Not trying to rain on your parade. But if you're hoping that the electoral college can be abolished or that Fox News can be shut down, you're going to be disappointed. The former requires a constitutional amendment and that's not happening. And the latter requires the Democrats to adopt the same hostile attitude towards the First Amendment that Trump is rightfully lambasted for having.

Actually, the one thing Democrats can have some influence over is gerrymandering, if they can continue to make gains in state legislatures and governorships and if relief comes from the courts.

[BigmanPigman]

195. It is so depressing and frustrating.

[femmocrat]

9. Same here.

I want a new (metaphorical) French Revolution! Vive La Resistance!

[shockey80]

13. I am tired of republicans playing dirty hardball and democrats playing softball.

Sending a lot of people to prison will send a message. Impeaching Trump will send a message. I want the democrats to pass laws like, all presidential candidates have to show at least 10 years of tax returns. That will stop rich dirty assholes like Trump running for president.

[ehrnst]

150. Careful... there are those that will say you want Dems to "be corrupt"

and "preferential"

because winning comes second to being "pure."

[brewens]

15. Not good. That's exactly what they will try and scare the half-wits with. Limbaugh said

electing Obama was going to be pay back time against white people.

We restore order and turn government back into doing good things for us. I'd say quite a few Trump voters will be wanting their benefits back before long. Republican's can't fix what they just helped break. Our people can though.

[KPN]

61. They are going to do that regardless.

They already are. Nothing to lose, everything to gain by holding them accountable.

[jalan48]

20. I agree. Run these sorry bastards out of office. Expose every one of them.

[TeamPooka]

21. Democrats need to fight Republicans the way Republicans fight Democrats. Also, I want our SCOTUS

seat back.
We need to "steal" one back asap.
I want to elect Democrats with the guts to do just that.

[not fooled]

24. Yes

which means the Democratic party has to be a party for the people, not corporations. There, I said it. Yes, we are MUCH better than the pukes but I want to see the pendulum swing back from greater corporate power and the kook brothers agenda to policies that work for Americans.

[Pauldg47]

87. Some how things will balance out for all the years of cheating and bullying.

[TeamPooka]

117. Not unless we make them balance. Scales require

You to make them balanced

[Enoki33]

25. All good ideas. But first we have to actually win back the House and

the Senate. That has to be the priority. Resist, organize and GOTV.

[dlk]

26. If Democrats Truly Believe in the Rule of Law, Then Honest Accountability Cannot Be Overlooked

If and when Democrats regain power in Washington, they will need to take active steps to ensure accountability for lawbreakers and returning watchdogs, with teeth, to all of our government agencies. Otherwise, Democrats will not succeed, and we will be right back where we are today, only worse.

[KPN]

59. Yup. The future success of the Democratic Party

will be dependent on ensuring accountability. Without it, we will continue to be viewed by many as complicit and not unlike the Rs. That goes without explanation in my view.

[mountain grammy]

27. I'm ok with wanting blood if that means real action against this treasonous bullshit

You only have to look at the aftermath of the Civil War to know tough action is necessary against traitors. Allowing the traitors to remain in power costs countless lives and spreads unimaginable misery.

[KPN]

69. +1!

[Firestorm49]

29. Agreed

You nailed it.

[dalton99a]

31. Absolutely. No "reconciliation" bullshit. We can't pretend nothing happened.

[Horse with no Name]

33. If we don't disinfect, the vermin will continue to come back

the only disinfectant is truth and justice for those that have offended.

[DBoon]

34. If we do not agressively prosecute these criminals this time

There won't be a next time

[FrankTC]

40. No Placating the Whining Right

If Democrats have the presidency and Congressional majorities, I don't want them to focus primarily on revenge. I want them to focus on enacting laws and policies that make things better for Americans. But in this endeavor I don't want them to coddle Republicans' fee-fees. The Republicans will whine and complain and do everything they can to obstruct even moderate proposals. If they're not braying and squealing at the top of their lungs, if blood isn't coming from their eyes, then they aren't being pushed hard enough. Appoint liberal judges and justices (not compromise moderates), ram everything through over the scattered bodies of conservatives, run the damn ball down the field as far as possible -- get something done for the people.

[shanny]

113. Amen.

Welcome to DU.

[kydo]

41. You don't have to go for blood. Honest & fair just governance will have the same effect.

All dems need do is win!

They will enact fair laws and to rethugs that will feel like we are drawing blood as they can't use their positions to make people they don't like, life's miserable and cheat or steal anymore. Boo who who, they will have a SAD, bigly. But no blood was drawn.

[KPN]

72. Didn't we just do that?

2008-2010?

Worked great didn't it.

[world wide wally]

43. I want justice.

We are supposed to be a "nation of laws" and that needs to be reestablished. The GOP has thrown that out completely
If that means "blood"... So be it.

blood being a euphemism, of course

[bucolic_frolic]

44. I want to reverse the damage they have done to everything

We didn't elect this mess. ALL OF IT never would have happened without a crooked, rigged, election that effectively sold our country to a foreign power. They enslaved us to themselves as elites and rulers.

Resist.

[George II]

46. How did Obama say "let's look back"? I don't think he did. I'm sure he didn't.

[KPN]

74. You are right.

Neither did the OP.

[George II]

83. The OP said this:

"...its time to move forward, lets not look back. Thats what Obama did and the republicans treated him like an asshole"

True?

[KPN]

115. No ... false representation of what was said.

You conveniently left off "I don't want to hear anymore BS about ..." before your quote.

I don't understand why you would do that except maybe any criticism of Obama or the party's past is unacceptable to or for you.

[shanny]

116. bullseye

[George II]

121. The complete statement(s) were this:

"I don't want to hear any bullshit about its time to move forward, lets not look back. Thats what Obama did and the republicans treated him like an asshole."

I.e., "I don't want to hear any bullshit....." followed by "that's what Obama did".

[KPN]

127. Right. What's your point?

[George II]

128. I can't make it any plainer than I already did to the OP.

[KPN]

129. No you can't. It's pretty obvious

as I described a couple posts back.

[HAB911]

47. REMEMBER THE GARLAND!

[dawg]

49. It's not about revenge, but ...

it *is* important that certain bad actors and enablers get reminded that their actions, do indeed, have consequences.

Those consequences should be swift, unambiguous, and proportional.

[StevieM]

51. Let's not forget how damaging it was when Iran-Contra offenders, like Oliver North and

Last edited Sun Jan 14, 2018, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)

John Poindexter, got away with their crimes.

[dawg]

55. The Democratic Party can't play a game with two different sets of rules.

And the only way we can compel the Republicans to play by our more genteel playbook, is to demonstrate that we are perfectly willing to play by their scorched-earth rules instead, if that is what they insist upon.

[KPN]

76. Good point.

[shockey80]

50. When I said I want blood, I meant I want justice, not revenge.

Laws have been broken, by many people.They need to go to prison. Shithole must to be impeached. New laws need to be enacted. Trump is proof our laws and our constitution must be progressive. They must change with the times.

[Stainless]

66. I understood exactly what you meant........

Wanting blood is a figure of speech not to be taken literally.

[joanbarnes]

56. DITTO!

[bullimiami]

58. I want to see criminals prosecuted. Not the farce we've had for 50 years.

Letting them all off the hook only to have them come back and lie, steal and destroy again has not worked.

I fault Obama for not pursuing crimes of the previous administration.
I fault him again for not fighting this incoming cabal with more determination.

There is nothing good to be gained in letting bygones be.

[Stellar]

62. I'm with you Shockey...

...not only that, I would love to see the Democratic hold congress and /or the Presidency for at least 16 straight years. We just don't need Republicans having anything to do with our government /monies for a very long time.

[paleotn]

63. Want blood?

hell, I want freaking blood bath! Whatever Rethugs are left after Nov. 2018 must be eviscerated. Their party and all that support them must be destroyed, period, end of story. I want them so publicly humiliated that a Rethug can't get elected dog catcher in any decent part of the country.

Sorry, but forgive and forget is difficult for me, particularly given the current circumstances.

[Snowflake22]

64. Go after Fox

There is another problem we need to fix starting now: going after the propaganda on Fox News!

[Pauldg47]

90. Yes but how?

[Stonepounder]

71. Perhaps what we will really need is something along the lines of a

"Truth and Reconciliation Commission" modeled after the one that South Africa had. (It would also be a nice little swat at Trump if we modeled it after one of those shithole countries in Africa.)

For those not familiar with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa)

[Toorich]

77. 40 or 50 Corporations...

pay the millions to allow Dems and Rethugs to run for office, they set the rules, and they tell us if we look forward or backward.
It's not the politicians or the people who make these decisions. If we do smack the bad guys a bit, the Judiciary they bought and paid for will reverse any verdicts with which the Corporations disagree.
So long as non-living, legal entities (corporations) are treated as super human by the courts and state and federal governments, they are and will remain our Master.
Gerry Spence chatted about this in 1993 in a little book "From Freedom to Slavery." If you can find a copy it's worth the read.

[bluestarone]

79. something we need to keep in mind is

The Repubs are willing to KILL to get the results they want and need!!!! They install JUDGES to continue there ASSAULT on every ANTI tRUMP American (and some STUPID tRump supporters) at which point do WE stop just turning the other cheek???

[KPN]

81. Yes. We need accountability.

If crimes were committed, they need to be prosecuted. If treason is found, it needs to be dealt with appropriately and justly.

There also needs to be a reconciliation that focuses on "how and why did this happen" and means to ensure it (whatever it is determined to be by that truth and reconciliation process) never happens again.

Anything less and we are doomed to more of the same. We've been "nice" for far too long already. And that is one reason why we are where we are.

[lastlib]

146. We need cleansing. All of dRumpf's corrupt cabal,,,,

INCLUDING McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Chaffetz, Gowdy, Cotton, Gohmert,,, ad infinitum, ad nauseum--ALL of them in shackles and behind bars. The GOPee is a corrupt organized crime ring, and needs to be eradicated.

[MariaCSR]

91. That's not going to happen. It'll be the same ole, same ole...

[Martin Eden]

92. Our goal should be justice and the public good

Trump must be impeached. That is a given. There are solid grounds, regardless of collusion.

But if Democrats are seen as purely out for revenge and abusing their power for partisan purposes, this will hurt us in the next election and hinder our effort to repair the damage inflicted by this maladministration.

By all means go after those who broke the law. Doing otherwise would be a public disservice and embolden more corruption.

Revenge, though, is a double edged sword.

Strength and justice are called for.

[procon]

95. Toward what goal?

What do Dems gain if we steal a page from the Republican playbook and regress, spiraling down to their level by engaging in petty revenge and retaliation? The Republicans would then repeat that vindictive policy (and let's be honest, they are much better at it than Dem politicians) and the endless cycle of vigilantism would destroy the country, not fix the problems that allowed Republicans to tilt the scales of justice.

If Dems regain power and hope to accomplish anything, and that's debatable, then we should focus on the law and pass fair and just legislation that levels the playing field for all, gives equal rights to everyone, and codifies our voting system. That's the only way we can prevent the next Trumpian monster from arising from the swamp.

[TheBlackAdder]

97. Wez, Is that you?

.

Where have I heard this before?

.

[CCExile]

98. I've been thinking of starting a GoFundMe page...

dedicated to financing the manufacture, storage, and distribution of pikes made especially for displaying severed heads. Torches and pitchforks maybe as a side line. Do we, as a country, need hudreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands. I guess it's a matter of where we draw the line. Anyway, stay tuned!

[CentralMass]

99. I'm down with that.

[zanana1]

100. Democrats never get revenge.

We're always nice about it. Don't get me wrong; I'm with you on the whole "let's put them through a meat grinder" thing. But noooooooo; we always "rise above it". I hate that.

[47of74]

102. THIS

Totally this.

I've been saying for years now that we need hard, pipe hitting liberals and not the weak willed centrists we have now.

We need to stop with the milquetoast horseshit and actually hold the GOP to account. Smash them down so hard that they won't win elective Federal office ever again.

[Cary]

105. You make a good point but isn't this just semantics?

"Blood" in what sense?

Maybe justice is a better word? Republicans have gone too far. Republicans have gone way, way over the line. They must be made to pay a steep price for their excess which is nothing short of treason. They must return to some semblance of truth, logic, and reason in order to be trusted ever again.

I don't fault President Obama one bit and feel that to do so is unreasonable and grossly unfair. We have to turn out in overwhelming force. Unfortunately we are weakened by a certain element that seems to believe in its own mytbology instead of the hard reality of putting one foot in front of the next.

[democratisphere]

106. It would not surprise me if Mueller already has his sites and indictments

set on several GOP members of Congress.

[gibraltar72]

108. Nobody ever

Has to pay a price. Dems and Obamas mistake was not probing Iraq war and bringing Cheney Bush and IMC to task for what they did. Republicans should have been exposed for what they were and are. Next time we can not take the high road. Not vindictive just justice. History demands that America gets the high colonic it needs.

[Oppaloopa]

110. I agree.

[Paladin]

111. Exactly! No more of this wimpy-assed, goody-two-shoes Democratic behavior.

I want the post-trump cleanup program to be brutal.

[msdogi]

114. agree

If we act within the law, and the Constitution, they will see it as a bloodbath.
There must be consequences to the nightmare they have helped create and nurture.

[NCDem777]

120. I agree

Be as bad as they are. Do everything they did. Everything. Make Trump stand before a committee for 11 hours straight. And not figuratively. No chairs. He's going to STAND before that committee until 11 hours are up or he taps out.

Add two more SCOTUS seats. Garland gets one.

Oh and since the South's big complaint about the Voting Rights Act is that it wasn't "fair" that they were only ones who had to submit their districts and laws for preclearance, fine. ALL STATES WILL HAVE TO DO PRECLEARANCE.

When a red state suffers a natural disaster, aid will be tied up by bullshit.

Oh and if the Bundy or militia boneheads start doing armed takeovers again, there will be no negotiation. They start threatening people, they get gunned down. If they don't mind running over people who protest police brutality, I have no problems seeing people who are mad that society exists being blown away.

[Skittles]

124. holding no one accountable, it just gets worse and worse

yup

[TomCADem]

130. Too Bad. You Will Be Disappointed. Then Manipulated

It will take tremendous effort to merely get anywhere near where we were prior to Trump. Of course, Jill Stein and Cornel West will only blame Democrats and call them neoliberals while giving the GOP a free pass. Then, due to the disappointment, perhaps you will stay home in 2020 because we have not arrived at progressive utopia in just 2 years.

[enid602]

132. Clintons

I think what the republicans did to the Clintons should reflect what needs to be done to tRump. Sue him until he runs out of money. Put him on TV for a grueling 11 hour crucifiction.

[demosincebirth]

135. Never will happen. Last President with that kind of balls was Harry "give 'em hell" Truman.

[Progressive dog]

137. Justice would be fine with me

As long as Trump and his minions are treated as the criminals they are, I don't need blood.

[demosincebirth]

138. I agree, that's blood figuratively speaking

[pecosbob]

139. As long as the GOPs methods are considered acceptable

there will be little progress. Dismantling the govt agencies you are assigned to manage is not acceptable. Political retaliation using the Justice Dept or other govt agencies is not acceptable. Ratfucking is not acceptable. Voter intimidation is not acceptable. Arbitrarily striking voters from the rolls is not acceptable. Criminalization of protest is unacceptable. If any Democrats are unclear about any of these issues, they have no place in government.

[lunatica]

140. The only thing I want is what's karmically due

There are plenty of people who need a karmic adjustment.

[denbot]

141. 1,000 Recs for you,

There should be blood, and lot’s of it!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

142. If the Republicons are not punished, they'll do it again and worse.

It is NOT enough to say that the voters will punish them (in one election). Tends to be short-term memory and they do it again and again.

[Brave-newworld]

143. Completely agree....

I have long hindsight on this. No mercy. Throw all the bums out and impeach this Shithole!

[Catch2.2]

147. I do too! Unfortunately....

The Democrats are too soft. They have so many opportunities yet they fail to act. Republicans can turn President Obama wearing a tan suit into a big issue. Republicans control the Presidency, both houses, and the vast majority of governor's offices. Wake up Dems!!!! You have a President who colluded with Russia, blatantly shifted the wealth to the rich, is a blatant racist, a sex offender! The fact that the Dems are HOPING to take back the House, speaks volumes about their lack of ability.

[bluecollar2]

149. Damn right...n/t

[humbled_opinion]

151. We need to erase this stain

On American history, we can give no quarter on this, I don't want to hear Democratic leadership talking about working with any of the racist pieces of shit on GOP side. The reason we have Dump in the first place is because we never really held Bushco accountable for the insanity of war and economic collapse. These coming elections need to be a referendum so there is absolutely no question as to what Democratic representatives are being elected to do, Impeach, Remove, Imprison.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

152. K&R nt

[NCDem777]

153. If Dems get majorities in both houses be as bad as the GOP

Do what they did to Obama. Don't let Trump make appointments for anything.

[BigDemVoter]

155. And I want to see the fucking Dems just BULLDOZE those goddamned repigs.

Who gives a flying FUCK what the Repigs want or need? Fuck them ALL.

[flamingprogressive]

156. Dems would have to grow a spine of which

I am not hopeful. Dems are wedded to political decorum, and rules of congress. Besides, we still have to fight voter suppression, the russians, and getting formerly sane, union dems and indeps, to come home, before we can claim victory

[azureblue]

159. the blodd will come

when honest congresspeople try to rid DC of bribers and lobbyists.

But, yeah, the corrupt GOP has to be driven out of town on a rail. After they have been forced to return all the money they stole from America.

[Mr. Ected]

162. I want our powder to be so wet it drips and puddles and floods and gushes

The time for dry powder ended on Tuesday, November 8, 2016.

[Woodycall]

164. I have to add my agreement to this! n/t

[tiptonic]

165. Well said

What u said and I want to see him dragged out of the Whitehouse, like the draft dodging coward he is. Along with is whole slimy family.

[Persondem]

167. When Democrats regain power I want justice, which is NOT the same as blood.

I want our SCOTUS seat back ...(via impeachment if it works that way)
I want Citizens United overturned and sensible campaign reform to get the $$$ out of our elections.
I want Gerrymandering to go the way of the dodo ... any kind of gerrymandering.
I want our elections to be hack proofed by using paper scantron ballots with no internet connections.
I want open and fair investigations into the questionable nonsense perpetrated by the GOP power brokers and Trump's inner circle.

[WyLoochka]

184. Justice and deterrence

Accomplishing the first four on your list will have the most long lasting positive effects.

The investigations should not end with a report or whitepaper. If crimes were committed, prosecutions and convictions must result, elsewise we are hypocritical liars when we say we stand for the rule of law.

An important part of holding criminals accountable is the deterrent effect. The criminals who caused the global financial crash, from which they profited immensely, were not held accountable. A law was passed that required somewhat tighter oversight and more reporting to regulators. That was a positive - as long as it lasted. But it wasn't enough.

There was no deterrent by example, no one perp walked and incarcerated. They were given no reason to fear committing the same or similar crimes all over again - and here we are, 9 years later. They are blithely undoing the law and regulations and setting us up for the global fleecing - all over again.

An important effect of administering just results for crimes committed (convictions) is that doing so helps deter others from committing such crimes in the future.

[Persondem]

192. Good points all. Deterrence for the GOP has really been absent since Reagan.

The big dogs didn't fall in Iran-Contra. Bush (Cheney) literally got away with lying us into war. tRump gets away with more nonsense than all previous presidents combined ... so far.

Thank you for the well thought out reply.

[Lifelong Protester]

168. I want to see orange jump suits and

handcuffs. Keep Gitmo going!

[vkkv]

169. ME TOO !! That is exactly why Pelosi should step down from a possible S.O.T.H. position.. Her

previous actions dictate that she should step down.

"The Impeachment of George W. Bush is OFF the table".. Nancy Pelosi.

You guys remember that one? And how did that make you feel?

[Crash2Parties]

170. Democrats in Congress after winning: "We have to reach across the aisle..."

[summer_in_TX]

172. The trick will be accountability that is thorough, firm and fair.

The punishment that the West delivered to Germany after WWI created resentment that was easy to exploit and was a root cause of WWII.

Similarly after Lincoln's assassination, Vice-President Johnson treated the South harshly and allowed the carpetbaggers to exploit and profiteer, creating a backlash of festering resentment that is playing out still to this day.

On the other hand, after the end of WWII we had accountability with the Nuremberg Trials and generosity with the Marshall Plan, and did not have the backlash.

Truth and Reconciliation is one model to definitely consider. The single most important thing to deal with (and the most difficult, in my opinion) is unraveling the FOXNews/RW talk radio/Breitbart/Alec Jones etc. propaganda system, and deprogramming those who have been systematically brainwashed.

Today in a Twitter thread someone pointed out that "It’s [FOXNews is] a fully fascist psy ops front now, the goal being to dehumanize opponents and create scapegoats for enemies of America. That’s the first step. The second is this providing alleged justification for killing them." I had not put that together until he said it, but that seemed to me to nail it. Listening to Rush two decades ago made me realize that if my liberal views could be seen like skin color or certain facial features could, that I was likely to be targeted. Made me think then of Nazi Germany and the Jews forced to wear their yellow stars. I'm white, but those who not white probably feel far more anxious than I do right now, and I've been rather anxious since that first encounter with Rush ranting about feminazis and the liberals who were against everything good about this country.

I sense the level of their rage (now fomented for decades) mixed with our own righteous anger makes for a very volatile and dangerous situation. Disturbingly, over the course of this last year I've witnessed our own tendency to dehumanize their side too in reaction to Trump's election. An actual civil war seems quite possible these days. I pray that wisdom and good will prevail.

Those who are reaching out to listen and connect across the chasm yawning between left and right these days, like Sarah Silverman, the People's Table, and Better Angels where marriage and family counselors use their skills to facilitate dialog and relationship between the sides, are doing critical work that may help us get through this perilous time without a bloody civil war.

[jmowreader]

173. How far down do you want to go?

Most of his supporters, like Fox News, the Mercers and Limbaugh, need to go down at least as hard as Trump.

[philly_bob]

174. Not blood. Confiscation of wealth. /nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

177. You're asking us to become "them". We're the adults, and shouldn't become what we supposedly....

despise.

[Kentonio]

179. Instead we'll get..

"We must heal and bring the country together!"

And the very day after we take back congress and the white house the GOP will start obstructing everything they can, smearing us and the new president, and employing every dirty trick in their playbook.

Fuck this shit, either we smack them down hard, or the cycle of division and the decay of American politics will continue until there's nothing left. The GOP have long since stopped being simply a political alternative to the Democratic party, they have become immoral and corrupt parasites who lie obsessively and will abuse any convention or rule to enrich their billionaire paymasters. Destroy them or they WILL destroy the country.

[cstanleytech]

181. Impeachment of Trump is unlikely as even if we won every

single Repugnant Senate seat up for grabs in the 2018 election we would still be far short of the needed votes.

[disillusioned73]

182. In other words...

"impeachment is off the table" is an unacceptable comment from D leadership - I agree...

[ck4829]

186. Trump, Flynn, Congress, Electors who voted for Trump... All need to be investigated and prosecuted.

[CrispyQ]

193. You won't get it. Not with the current crop of dems.

They will look forward & reach across the aisle in the name of healing the nation. Which of course won't work, cuz the only way to heal the nation is to expose the GOP for the rot that they are & ruin the brand forever. The democratic party is not an opposition party. If they had been, we wouldn't be in this mess.