Maybe it's time to ask: if funding Trump's ridiculous wall is a "ransom" we are willing to pay,

[Atticus]

what ransom WON'T we pay? Do Republicans have any reason to believe that there's anything we won't swallow?

How will this play as anything other than "the Democrats blinked!"?

[Irish_Dem]

1. Yep. How far we will prostitute ourselves?

Might as well just nap for the next 8 yrs.

[Ken Burch]

20. Can't WAIT to hear the responses for THAT one.

[Irish_Dem]

21. I know, I will be hung out to dry.

But if we are going to pay $20 billion for the damn wall, I am going to speak out.
Wrong is wrong, I don't care who does it.

[BigmanPigman]

2. I think Ted Lieu and Schumer

may be caving...I hope not!

[Sophia4]

4. People here cannot complain about purity and not voting for Democrats when

we see our representatives and senators caving on the funding for the wall.

Republicans cut funding for our government with their tax bill.

Now they want to waste money on a wall that will never work to keep people out but will make it harder for Americans to leave if we want to. (See the history of the Iron Curtain, the Chinese Wall [most successful of them all] and the Maginot line or how about Hadrian's wall? Walls only work for a limited time, and they keep out progress more than they succeed in keeping out unwanted people.)

Republicans want future budgets to be seriously in the red so that they can justify cutting programs like food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

If Lieu and Schumer can't see the strategy behind the funding for the wall, then they should not be in Congress.

The wall funding should be awarded only if Republicans raise a tax on employers to pay for it. People come to the US to take jobs that employers offer them. The employers should pay for any wall that is built. And I oppose building a wall.

I visited the fortifications that made up the Maginot line that was intended to keep the Germans out of France. It failed. Hitler entered through the Ardennes.

If you don't know about these historical references, please Google.

Anyway -- here's a video on the Germans crossing the Maginot line.

[Hortensis]

8. Atticus and Sophia4 both bemoaning weak,

unprincipled future imaginings. So far we have the Republican leadership rejecting our initial move and others seeing that we're serious about protecting our DACA people from deportation. Why not wait to see what this maneuvering leads to? It's not over until it's over.

[Sophia4]

18. I admire your optimism.

I lived near the Maginot line when a student and visited it.

The wall is a waste of money. Democrats should not agree to it.

Putting pressure on employers will end immigration without visas.

[Demsrule86]

27. The Democrats never please some...quite typical .

[smirkymonkey]

13. This! Thank YOU!

I completely agree with everything you have said!

[TBA]

3. There will be court challenges

To the claim of eminent domain. That alone will consume a decade. Fuckin Wall will never be built. I say it saves DACA kids do it.

[Control-Z]

5. Can wait stipulate that it is funded

from strictly maggot voters' taxes? I'd like mine to go to CHIP, please.

[liberal_patriot_md]

6. We will have gotten DACA

Listen - the Wall will never be built. Even if it is funded.

Look at the Keystone Pipeline extension ordeal. After it being fought for years it was approved by Trump. And guess what? It won’t be built. The route is being blocked by farmers in Nebraska and they can’t get enough customers to use it. It’s a debacle.

1) The Wall will be held up for decades in eminent domain fights. And government taking land from conservatives in red states will be a bad look for them.

2) Plenty of fights over the route and locations for the Wall will delay it further. And don’t forget the fights over the contracts to build it. There will be all kinds of protests as competing offers try to get this huge contract from the government. And do you think this crew will act ethically? More chance for investigations of corruption.

3) Even if I’m wrong - it will become a monument to Trump’s cruelty. And a reminder of his inability to get Mexico to pay for it.

[handmade34]

7. ok

[img][/img]

[gulliver]

10. This

[Bradshaw3]

29. Well said

Not to mention when the Dems win in 2018 it won't be funded.

[duforsure]

9. If they give a cent for a wall

They must put it in the bill he can't have anything to do with building it, or he'll take us to the cleaners with it, like he done to investors in the past. No connection with its building, or anything to make a dime from, or costly penalties for him,like millions in fines . They should install clauses saying he'll be heavily fined , and any building will stop if he shakes others down for allowing them to build it too for profits , or campaign contributions, or funneling money to him through his PAC. He does that kind of stuff to get money now through his PAC.

[roamer65]

11. Give him his stupid wall funding, then yank it next year when we control Congress.

[Kirk Lover]

17. Yes....this.

[L. Coyote]

12. The word we are looking for is EXTORTION.

Criminal politics is how I'm describing the current regime.

[smirkymonkey]

14. Vicente Fox on his stupid wall...

[Initech]

15. That's what pisses me off the most.

There is no negotiating with these assholes. No matter what move we make, they're gonna turn around and blame it on us. If we vote to fund the wall, they'll say we are against immigration. If we vote against the wall, they'll say we lack patriotism. They're setting us up for a trap and it's gonna suck no matter what the outcome is. We just got to tell them STFU.

[Demsrule86]

26. And who cares? We can't worry about what they will do.

[Initech]

28. They own the media. They control the narrative.

Bill Maher hit the nail on the head on Friday when he called the GOP sheep. The powers that be will craft their talking points and they can easily be swayed to believe anything.

[Demsrule86]

31. He is correct... I think Fox and talk radio are mostly to blame. But they won't go away so what can

do to get our message out...sitting on our hands while complaining that the DNC isn't doing enough won't help...complaining about our elected either. in both cases, they have surrogates not the RNC to do it for them. We need something like this.

[Kirk Lover]

16. The idea is we win it back and BLOW UP THIS WALL. Something's gonna happen but this

wall won't be built. This is a bullshit carrot.

[DURHAM D]

19. Senator Tammy Duckworth was just on MSNBC.

Good interview. Maybe you can find it.

It is a lesson in getting something done. She is okay with some spending on the wall to protect dreamers, esp. those in the military. She is also ready to reintroduce emergency funding for the troops.

Don't think anyone will accuse her of blinking.

[Ms. Toad]

22. I don't care how it "plays."

This isn't a game - people's lives (and a lot more) are at stake as to both issues.

Our decisions should be based on what is the best option to save/help the most people, regardless of how it "plays."

Personally, funding a wall (disastrous human and ecological consequences) is not something I would trade for DACA. Nothing to do with blinking. It's just doesn't match my values.

[dsc]

23. Honestly, it depends upon how much funding, the timing of the funding, and what we get in return

A few hundred million or a billion for a demo project that will be built in say 2020 in return for a permanent solution to DACA sounds pretty good to me. On the other hand giving him billions for the wall for some temporary solution to DACA not so much. Obviously there is a lot of in between that may or may not be acceptable.

[msongs]

24. republican's will call it Schumer's wall wait and see nt

[Demsrule86]

25. What are you talking about...the Democrats have not blinked...and it was clever of Schumer so

he clearly showed Trump wanted a shutdown...it was a pittance in terms of money.

[Tatiana]

30. I am very against funding the wall. It should be a "no go."

But I understand how some members of the caucus feel that it would be a worthwhile sacrifice to bring some stability to the DACA situation.

[Demsrule86]

32. We need to save the dreamers if we can. And I don't know if we can. The wall throw some money at it.

It will never be built.