NYTimes: Is this the Collusion we were waiting for?

[pnwmom]

The key sentence is in bold. If the Russians helped the R's take control of Congress, the whole party is implicated.

Think about that.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/opinion/nra-russia-investigation-trump.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur

Of all the so-called dark money groups involved in the 2016 election, none spent more than the N.R.A. The $30 million it expended to elect Trump was three times more than the N.R.A. spent on Mitt Romney’s behalf in the 2012 election.

That $30 million, however, is just what the N.R.A. spent on the presidential race. It also backed other candidates, reportedly spending $55 million overall. The organization helped Republicans cement control of Congress. If it did so with Russia’s assistance, the whole party is implicated.

Of course, the citizenry has no way of knowing where any of that money came from. But the F.B.I. almost certainly does. We’re far from understanding what role, if any, the N.R.A. played in helping Russia help Trump. But a scandal that encompasses both the Trump campaign and the right’s most powerful lobby would be bigger than most people imagined before Thursday.

“In terms of what the Russians are doing in the United States, it’s far broader than just the Trump campaign,” Schiff told me. “In that sense when people think that the Russian intervention was just about tipping the scales to one of the candidates in 2016, they’re thinking far too narrowly.”

[Roland99]

1. DU rules allow for the copying and pasting of up to 4 paragraphs

It really helps provide context

At least some investigators think the relationship between the N.R.A. and Russian government actors went beyond mutual admiration. On Thursday afternoon, the House Intelligence Committee released the transcript of its interview with Glenn Simpson, one of the founders of the research firm Fusion GPS. (The transcript of Simpson’s interview with the Senate was released last week.) In it, Jackie Speier, Democrat of California, asks Simpson about Russia’s interest in the N.R.A. Simpson replied that it appeared that the Russians had “infiltrated” the N.R.A. He mentioned Torshin and a woman named Maria Butina, whom McClatchy describes as Torshin’s “protégée.”

Adam Schiff, Democrat of California and ranking member of the intelligence committee, told me that the committee’s interest in the gun lobbying organization predated its meeting with Simpson. “The issue of whether there was an effort to either create a back channel through the N.R.A., or provide funding through the N.R.A., has been an issue of concern for the committee, and something we’ve endeavored to look into with the limited resources we have,” he said.

If a relationship between the N.R.A., Trump and Russia exists, Torshin and Butina appear to be the nexus of it. Torshin helped create a Russian gun-rights group called Right to Bear Arms, and Butina runs it. The purpose of the group is ambiguous. Gun laws in Russia are strict, and if people close to Putin actually wanted to change them, creating a group alluding to America’s Second Amendment seems like a weird way to do it. As Simpson said in his House testimony: “Vladimir Putin is not in favor of universal gun ownership for Russians. And so it’s all a big charade, basically.”

[pnwmom]

3. Yeah, I know. You caught me in the midst of posting. Look at the juicy paragraphs I picked.

And thanks for yours!

[Roland99]

6. No worries!

I’m loving this.

SO much corruption all around. I hope Mueller can finish before he’s 80!

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

18. Maria Butina...

... she really gets around. She was a featured speaker at a South Dakota Young Republicans summer camp. Check out her blue shirt she wore at the camp, and in the advertisement with her holding an AK rifle.

[link:http://dakotafreepress.com/2017/03/27/maria-butina-connects-russians-nra-trump-sibby-and-mathew-wollman/|

[NBachers]

34. It looks like a blue shirt with fractal patterns or something on it. Am I missing something?

[Shoonra]

21. When I was young .....

When I was young, a million years ago (well, 60 years ago) the NRA was supposed to help defend us from the Russians (and we were supposed to admire and support the FBI for doing the same). Now I find out the NRA is helping the Russians and the FBI are bad guys for trying to stop this.

I have lived too long. I never thought I would live long enough to see a President dumber than George W. Bush, or more crooked than Richard Nixon, or more contemptuous of the working class than Ronald Reagan. And now I have.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

23. K & R. Thanks, good perspectives!

I'm seventy and feel the same. Never thought I would see the USA marching backward.

................

[czarjak]

29. Trifecta...

[TwistOneUp]

33. Bravo! Kudos for that post! n/t

[Hekate]

35. I know exactly what you mean, Shoonra. It's beyond belief. nt

[flying_wahini]

43. Your post will go on my list for my next poster sign for the next march!

TRUMP

Dumber than GWB
More crooked than Nixon
Hates the working class even more than Reagan

Or something like that!

Thanks!

[Zorro]

2. Sure sounds like it to me

The NRA and its asshole leader Wayne LaPierre have been a pox on this country for the past 35 years.

[Maraya1969]

51. Wouldn't it be great if he is indicted? And convicted?

[lagomorph777]

57. And imprisoned.

Along with 250 of his RePutin pals.

[malaise]

4. Get thee to the greatest page

Rec

[Turbineguy]

5. On the other hand

they've armed all the wing nuts in preparation for a rebellion.

[dweller]

8. exactly... all muzzles pointed inward

and none pointed outward expecting an invasion...
😳

[Pachamama]

16. This....

....is what is even scarier....the crooks and criminals and their sycophants control the armory....

[uponit7771]

38. +1

[byronius]

7. National Russian Assistance, the most patriotic of patriotic patriots of all patriodom.

I wonder how much Russian money went into that ad calling for violence against liberals.

Why, that sounds just like the Facebook strategy.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[L. Coyote]

14. National RICO Association. Russians, Gun Nuts, and Republicans.

Link to tweet

https://thinkprogress.org/nra-and-russian-cousin-18f607d40240/
Why has the NRA been cozying up to Russia?
The Right to Bear Arms in Moscow enjoys a close relationship with America’s leading gun-rights group.
Josh Israel --- Nov 23, 2016

Throughout the 2016 presidential campaign, there was a steady stream of stories published about Donald Trump, his second campaign manager, his supporters at Wikileaks, and the ties they appeared to have to Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation. Reporting also highlighted that, more than any other national organization, the National Rifle Association (NRA) went all-in to elect Trump.

But no attention was given to the ties between the NRA, a Russian gun-rights group run by a twenty-something gun activist named Maria Butina, and her close friend and boss, the deputy governor of the Russian central bank, Alexander Torshin.

Why does an American gun group that promotes gun rights as a defense against tyranny align itself with a group with close ties to an authoritarian regime? Why would Putin allies build a grassroots non-profit to loosen Russia’s gun laws, rather than just enact them? Experts who spoke to ThinkProgress say they are not sure, but they discussed whether the whole arrangement is a cover for a larger effort to undermine American sanctions against Russia.
A meeting in Moscow

On December 11, 2015, in the depths of a biting Moscow winter, The Right to Bear Arms hosted a delegation from its American counterpart, the NRA. David Keene, an NRA board member and former national president of the organization, flew to Russia to attend the event. Also at that meeting were NRA First Vice President Pete Brownell, CEO of the world’s largest firearm accessories supplier; NRA funder Dr. Arnold Goldschlager and his daughter, NRA Women’s Leadership Forum executive committee member Hilary Goldschalger; and Outdoor Life channel head Jim Liberatore. Perhaps the most famous guest at the gathering, trading his customary uniform for a black leather vest over a button-down shirt, was Milwaukee County Sheriff and Fox News regular David A. Clarke.

...................

[enough]

9. Interesting article from November 2016 for background and memory-refresh:

https://thinkprogress.org/nra-and-russian-cousin-18f607d40240/

Why has the NRA been cozying up to Russia?
The Right to Bear Arms in Moscow enjoys a close relationship with America’s leading gun-rights group.

[pnwmom]

12. Thanks! I'd never seen this particular piece, but it adds a lot of detail to what I've read.

One thing I've been wondering, with regard to the December 2015 trip that Sheriff Clarke took to Russia: Michael Flynn and Jill Stein there that same week. Even that same day. Was that a coincidence? Hard to believe . . .

[CentralMass]

10. K&R

[Nitram]

11. This is almost too good to be true. Taking down Trump, the NRA and GOP Congressional leaders

in one fell swoop. The scary part is they have so much to lose if they let the process play out.

[mitch96]

32. " This is almost too good to be true"

The problem I can see is that all the crazies with guns will think it's a political coup going down and do something stupid....... and you can't fix stupid

m

[bucolic_frolic]

13. Very depressing, I'm just realizing

all the R crooks together as a party may be too big to fail

meaning the consequences are global, there's no system for dealing with the outcomes

I'm thinking this may be cleaned up quietly, and/or managed over time, in full public view but without
reversals of their policies, without a lot of jail time, without much.

Super Big Hot Potato

[lagomorph777]

58. There is a system; we won't like how it works.

Same as how a system was assembled in WWII to solve a similar problem in Germany, Italy, and Japan.

[bucolic_frolic]

60. Ouch. If that's where we're headed

[L. Coyote]

15. NRA Gives $3.6 Million to Walker, Wisconsin Legislators

Wisconsin Democracy Campaign
NRA Gives $3.6 Million to Walker, Legislators
Just one Democrat benefits from gun lobby’s generous donations.
By Wisconsin Democracy Campaign - Oct 5th, 2017 11:10 am

..... In Wisconsin, the National Rifle Association (NRA) spent about $3.6 million between January 2008 and June 2017 on outside electioneering activities and direct contributions to GOP Gov. Scott Walker, 52 legislators, and a legislative campaign committee.

Most of the spending, about $3.5 million, was by the NRA on outside electioneering to help Walker win his 2010 general, 2012 recall and 2014 reelection bids. Walker also received $22,500 in direct campaign contributions from pro-gun interests – the most of any legislative or statewide candidate – between January 2008 and June 2017.
In addition to Walker, current legislators received about $92,400 (see table below) in outside electioneering support and direct campaign contributions from the NRA’s political action committees and corporation, between January 2008 and June 2017. All but $500 went to support GOP legislators.

During much of the same time, Walker and GOP legislators, who took control of state government in January 2011, have approved numerous pro-gun bills led by state’s concealed carry law.

More recently, last month, a state Senate committee recommended passage of a proposal, Senate Bill 169, which would allow adults to carry concealed weapons in Wisconsin without a permit. ....................

[pnwmom]

17. Interesting, thanks! n/t

[samnsara]

59. isn't the NRA under scrutiny for maybe taking russia money? that means....

......walker...??

[L. Coyote]

61. That is basically the OP.

[certainot]

19. there is also talk radio , maybe going back 10 years

before social media there was talk radio .

manafort was co chair of the mccain campaign and has that russian connection

mccain wanted pawlenty or lieberman but limbaugh wouldn't support him until he picked palin, who was the talk radio candidate, as is trump now.

talk radio with limbaugh leading lead the way turning the ruissian hack into 'climategate' to stop obama at copenhagen in 2009 and put us back 10 years on climate change action - billions in oil revenue for putin every year.

then limbaugh has led every time there's a chance for debt default and govt shutdown.

is it just coincidence that talk radio and the kremlin have so much in common? it's the perfect propaganda operation, ignored by democrats, the kind of old soviet style propaganda op they would have recognized long ago.

[pnwmom]

24. Good point. And now we have the Sinclair TV network

to add to the message talk radio's carrying.

[certainot]

31. more visual icing on the lie turd pie

[lindysalsagal]

20. The gop leadership is all complicit.

Take the whole party down. Why do you think so many are retiring?

[Upthevibe]

27. Wow....It's a lot to wrap your head around...N/T

[burrowowl]

22. K&R!!!!

[BobTheSubgenius]

25. Let's say that the process was totally corrupted....

...and many of the races were anywhere from tainted to outright stolen. What then? It's even possible that some of the beneficiaries of this gigantic malfeasance were unaware of any of it. After all, need-to-know would be the order of the day, right? The fewer in on the plot, the better the chances of success.

There is no do-over allowed for in the Constitution, and I can't imagine what the legal remedies might be. Almost certainly none. Even if a 'fix' of some kind was available, the level of chaos would be unimaginable. I literally can't conceive of what it would be like.

The Rethuglicans winning to the extent they did was been disastrous, and even the cleanup would be a catastrophe of a different type.

[pnwmom]

26. You're right that it's probably too big to fix all of it. But some of the people at the top --

the decision makers -- might go down. It all depends on the evidence Mueller finds.

[Hoyt]

28. Dang gun-fanciers are ruining this country. :)

[Cracklin Charlie]

30. Yes!

More sunlight on the NRA!

[Hekate]

36. KnR

[uponit7771]

37. +1

[sunonmars]

39. If this is proven, time to shut down the NRA.

[Hortensis]

66. Oh, brother? First Amendment anyone?

Like it or not, the NRA's a private organization that millions belong to.

Plus, this is just speculation. An OPINION piece saying things that would never get past the editors into articles. So, maybe a couple of NRA execs might conceivably go to prison. I'll cheer that if it happens.

But until then it's all speculation and insinuation, and we're not trumpsters.

[BumRushDaShow]

40. I posted a related unrolled twitter thread in a different GD post which is interesting

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/933536056036732928.html

Seems they have been out this for some time.

[Orrex]

41. The NRA is a terrorist organization

And every dues-paying member is aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.

[Eyeball_Kid]

42. This is what Louise Mensch, Counterchekist, and other independent journalists

were reporting months and months ago. It seemed that no one was paying attention.

[elias7]

68. Yes it is...

And much more have they reported... #risingcredibility

[vkkv]

44. This is pretty much what many of us have been thinking all along by the response the GOP has given

in regards to the seriousness of the Mueller investigation...


"Hoax!" "Shut it down!" "Fire Mueller!"


Hiding something perhaps?

[Botany]

45. Paul Ryan, Families keep secrets

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/paul-ryan-keeps-it-family-kevin-mccarthy-russia-trump

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy said, according to Entous, a superb reporter who heard a tape recording of the colloquy. “Swear to God.”

Dana Rohrabacher is a Republican from California with a peculiar amalgam of views: pro-marijuana, dubious about climate change, pro-torture. For this last position, in 2007, Keith Olbermann awarded him his periodic “Worst Person in the World” award, on his old MSNBC show. Like Trump, Rohrabacher has been highly solicitous of Russian President Vladimir Putin. Last year, Politico ran an article on Rohrabacher called “Putin’s Favorite Congressman.”

In the Post piece, McCarthy’s remark is met with laughter, and Ryan cautions his colleagues, “This is an off the record . . . No leaks! . . . All right?”

And then, amid more laughter, Ryan says, “This is how we know we’re a real family here.”

[vkkv]

46. Even other GOP Congresskids have called Rohrabacher Putins Favorite Congressman...

Good thing Dems are polling well..

[Le Gaucher]

47. If an entire party was colluding - it is not collusion. It's just politics.

[pnwmom]

48. Not if the whole party is colluding with a foreign country. Foreign donations to campaigns

are barred by law. And members of Congress aren't exempt from the laws they pass.

[Le Gaucher]

49. My point is .. the bastards have poisoned the well and have politicized every tool

That is available to bring those fucking assholes to justice.

FBI/CIA is now deep state.

Congressional investigations are a mechanism to exonerate those who are guilty.

Journalists work for fake media.

Elections are rigged through gerrymandering and voter purges

In short - we can go and fuck ourselves.

[pnwmom]

50. You've been watching too much Limbaugh. Mueller is not corrupt.

And he's not part of your "deep state."

[Le Gaucher]

53. I am not saying that .. that is what Republicans are saying repeatedly

I was giving examples of how they are politicizing every single things.

When Mueller makes his recommendation . Republicans will use the deep state justification to prevent any real accounting/justifice

[pnwmom]

54. Okay, thanks for clarifying. Mueller IS facing the toughest battle of his life.

But I have hope still that he and his team will prevail.

[blugbox]

52. I'm pretty sure

Le Gaucher was being facetious. As in "It's not illegal when the President does it"

[Le Gaucher]

64. thank you !

[L. Coyote]

62. The RNC, a continuing criminal enterprise.

[Scurrilous]

55. K&R

[lagomorph777]

56. Holy MOLY!!

This certainly makes sense, looking at the evidence.

The RePutins are in for a SPANKING!

[bathroommonkey76]

63. Last May Louise Mensch said the entire GOP was implicated in collusion

with Russia.

DU's response: *crickets*

[pnwmom]

65. She also spoke of Sheriff Clarke and the NRA. n/t

[Politicub]

67. The NRA exists to sow seeds of chaos

And enrich the profits of firearms makers at the harvest.

Promoting civil unrest is good for business, so I’m sure La Pierre and the rest of the NRA leadership eagerly lapped Russian money from the floor.

[nolabels]

69. Maybe we should look on the other side of the coin

Is it possible that the NRA was trying to broaden their markets.

Just think how brash the NRA could be if Putin let them into his market