Give Trump the money for the wall.

[gulliver]

First of all, $20B is chicken feed. Republicans just borrowed $1.5T over ten years for their tax bill. They want to spend $700B just for 2018 on the Defense budget. Much of that $700B is just going into things that will never be used and don't serve their intended purpose.

Just like the wall. It's really just $20B of "construction stimulus" for something that will never ever be completed nor serve its intended purpose.

Republicans won't even spend the $20B if it is appropriated. The project will get about $5B in, be plagued with cost overruns and landowner outrage, and will be about 30 miles long. Then everyone will turn on it and want to pull the plug. Dems, of course, will be glad to pull the plug, but I don't think we should clean it all up. We should leave large chunks of it out there in perpetuity to remind people how stupid Republicanism can be.

[C_U_L8R]

1. A honeypot to lure corrupt republicans.

Last edited Wed Jan 24, 2018, 12:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Good idea.

[MLAA]

2. I like it

[RainCaster]

3. Hell no- let 45 build it with his own money

Leave us out of it

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. THIS

[unblock]

4. Problem is, the money will go to cronies, who will recycle a big chunk to republican campaigns.

[Hoyt]

5. Exactly, it wont be completed or accomplish anything but remind people

of how hateful trump and GOPers are. Whatever portion does get built will be perfect for anti-trump graffiti.

Seriously, if the wall is the price that has to be paid to keep good people from being deported, I’m fine with it.

[rockfordfile]

9. No wall.

This is the kind of crap that gets a republican control of Congress.

[Hoyt]

10. No deportation first.

[BannonsLiver]

15. How about him getting re-elected in 2020?

Because of the EC it’s possible he could be re-elected at 35-38 approval. He wasn’t much more popular than that in 2016 when he won. The problem here is that giving him the wall gives him a campaign promise delivered and keeps those 35-38 engaged.

To use a Star Trek reference Schumer and the rest of the Dems in Congress are currently taking part in a Kobayashi Maru scenario.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru?wprov=sfti1

That’s why I’m going to try to be more patient with them as they navigate this mess.

[Hoyt]

17. Sorry, Ill give him the wall to protect immigrants.

[BannonsLiver]

39. Im not sure I would if it I knew it meant 4 more years

Unlikely our democracy would survive that so there wouldn’t be much for anyone to “dream” about in that scenario anyway.

Of course it’ll never come down to a binary choice like that. The reality will be much trickier.

[fallout87]

26. Right,

But if there is gridlock in congress and he doesn't get funding for the wall, he will still keep his support and they will say he needs another 4 years to complete the wall.

[BannonsLiver]

40. Yes but a promise delivered is better than one that has to be explained

In politics if you’re explaining, you’re losing even if you’re Drumpf.

[MiniMe]

6. Mexico is going to pay for it

[rockfordfile]

7. No way in hell. That's crazy

That's not how it will turn out.

[TeamPooka]

8. Yup. Made the case for it here...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210132371

[Wounded Bear]

11. I kind of like what Schumer is doing...

He "took the wall off the table." I don't really believe that. It's a ploy. By setting it aside, it becomes something to use in the future to bargain for the Dreamers.

For all their bluster, a lot of Repubs are worried about being on the wrong side of the DACA issue. It has historically high approval ratings for not screwing Dreamers. Schumer is searching for whatever leverage he can get. By taking the wall off the table (supposedly) he now has that in his back pocket. Eventually, I think we'll get a wall for DACA swap, that will seal the deal.

[procon]

12. I want to know the amount it will cost to buy all the private property where Trump

wants to build his wall, the access roads, easements, and utility routing? All that land belongs to citizens and they likely have serious concerns about their property values and rights, including ranches witg cross border grazing rights, water rights or flash flooding, wildlife migration routes... if the deer can't get to their grazing grounds then they'll happily munch on crops.

How do all those landowners get access to local roads when there's a big ass wall cutting through their only way out? How can workers still come to work, or Americans still drive to neighboring towns in Mexico for shopping when they are walled in/out? And then many lawsuits will likely follow, eating up still more money.

[struggle4progress]

13. Why ruin the environment that way?

[gulliver]

19. Republicans in power hurt the environment far worse.

[Demsrule86]

21. We have to choose...Dreamers are more important.

[L. Coyote]

14. Give Hitler the money for the gas chambers. They are just gas chambers.

Who know how they will be used, right?

[ConnorMarc]

16. Pretty Much

You either have principles, and stand on them, or you don't.

[Demsrule86]

20. Dreamers are worth more than stinking principles any time of the day.

What good are 'principles' if you allow deportations? I just don't know if it will work.

[Hoyt]

27. Exactly x zillions. White wing bigots win with deportation, not to mention the

people hurt.

[L. Coyote]

33. Defending DREAMers is standing on principles. We won't be coerced into racism.

You either have principles or you don't, there is no half way point. That's like saying if Hitler gassed half as many Jews, everything would have been fine.

Sorry Trump, no racist wall and no deporting DREAMers.

[Demsrule86]

18. He was offered money for the wall. Trump turned it down.

[GulfCoast66]

22. Does not matter

The house will not approve DACA.

Well not just for the wall. And I would approve the Wall for DACA knowing that if we win the house we just defund it.

The problem is they want an end to family migration, merit based systems. And greatly reduced immigration overall. In other words...Keep America White.

DACA is not happening no matter what we do.

[Generic Brad]

23. How about an invisible fence?

Outfit everyone on both sides of the invisible fence a shock collar that activates if we cross the border?

[Poiuyt]

24. NO! The wall would be a giant symbol to the world of the US's racism

Just the opposite of the Statue of liberty

[D_Master81]

25. this is where i'm at

2018 and beyond is looking good for dems, dont give the gop talking points agaqinst the dems like "we're not paying military families cause dems are helping illegals" or whatever nonsense they've been pushing. besides, its unpopular and like you said is months away from ever starting and will never get past 50-100 miles at best. Get DACA in the negotiations and be done with this and move on towards winning back the house.

[OAITW r.2.0]

28. Regarding that taxpayer expenditure on a $700BB/yr Defense Appropriation...

Why aren't we charging Exxon/Mobil, et al, the cost of US muscle to get their product to market? Let them try to raise prices at the gas pump....it will only move the market quicker to electric vehicles. Without the US defense subsidies, Big Oil is screwed. We are underwriting Big Oil's marketing plan to the tune of , I dunno, $250BB/year.

[ooky]

29. No dreamer protection, no wall.

[Atticus]

30. I thought it was our national policy that we won't ever pay ransoms as that only

incentivizes hostage taking. Wouldn't paying this demand encourage the "terrorists"?

[bullwinkle428]

31. Tell me how this would not be normalizing hate.

[SWBTATTReg]

32. History has shown us that Walls don't work...nt

[Anny61]

34. I think it is obvious Schumer and the Democrats plan to do just that, for DACA.

[MFM008]

36. Maggot can have his wall

If he eats the stuff first and then
Craps out the bricks.

[jmowreader]

37. No, and for several reasons

Reason 1 is the impression it will make on the world. You'd need to sand Emma Lazarus' "The New Colossus" off the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty and replace it with "there is no room at the inn." That is what we would be saying: welcome to America, now go home.

Reason 2 is if you want $20 billion worth of "construction stimulus," there are thousands of bridges in America that are in danger of collapse. And more that need to be expanded...that's not counting all the roads, water systems, schools, parks, post offices, county jails, and so on and so forth that need to be fixed. I don't know about y'all, but if a bridge collapses while I'm driving across it, the thought going through my mind while I'm wading out of the river will NOT be "I'm SO glad we built a twelve-mile monument to stupidity in Texas!"

Reason 3 is electoral in nature. We Democrats have been opposing the wall since Trump brought it up, and for good reasons. If we give him what he wants, the GOP isn't going to claim we have the best interests of the American people at heart. They WILL claim Democrats are flip-floppers, changing our positions at a moment's notice to try to get whatever we want even though it's never worked before. If they flip nine Democratic Senate seats to GOP they can do whatever the hell they want, and if we hand them a massive victory like the wall they very well could.

Reason 4 involves the man who thinks blowing several million dollars to decorate his living room like the slot machine room at a casino is a good idea. Someone has got to sit on this asshole and tell him he has got to stop throwing money around like an aircraft carrier full of drunken sailors in Bangkok with a month's leave pay and a three-day pass. Handing him $20 billion after he already blew $150 billion a year on cutting his own taxes and $700 billion on the defense budget will only encourage him to really start blowing through cash.

Reason 5? "The only reason we aren't finished with the wall is the Democrats." Forget that we just discovered the biggest aquifer in the history of mankind sitting ten feet under the MX-NM border and the wall sections we tried to install are now in it. Every construction problem will be blamed on us.

The last reason I'll give tonight is tactical. Trump doesn't "settle." He's like a little kid - if you give him something, he'll want even more. If we give Trump his wall, next he'll want to kill DACA, or outlaw abortion or something else we simply cannot hand him. "You gave me the wall, so why won't you give me this?"

No wall. No way. No how.

[lindysalsagal]

38. Never. No wall. Ever. Even if just for symbolic reasons. 45 must fail.