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Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 03:59 PM Jan 2018

My take on the latest Hillary "scandal".

According to a recent New York Times article (link below), back in 2008 a Hillary Clinton employee by the name of Burns Strider sexually harassed a female staffer. This was reported to Ms. Clinton. Hillary decided not to fire Strider. Instead she decided to punish Strider. But Hillary did not fire him. The female employee was reassigned.

What did Hillary do right?

1. She believed the accuser.
2. She punished the offender.

What did Hillary do wrong?

1. She reassigned the accuser, not the offender. The accuser had to take a new position.
2. The offender was not fired. He stayed in his position.

As I see it, it's a wash. Those who defend Hillary are wrong. She did NOT stand up for the victim. But those who attack Hillary are also wrong. She did NOT ignore the story. She took action.

Here's the article:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/us/politics/hillary-clinton-chose-to-shield-a-top-adviser-accused-of-harassment-in-2008.html?referer=https://newrepublic.com/minutes/146790/hillary-clinton-reportedly-protected-alleged-sexual-harasser-2008-campaign



62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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My take on the latest Hillary "scandal". (Original Post) Shemp Howard Jan 2018 OP
Yeah, I dont care. Im focused on GOP and the president. sharedvalues Jan 2018 #1
The "I don't care" is, I believe, too simplistic. Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #6
That seems about right. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #2
Glad you posted this. pangaia Jan 2018 #3
IMO that's a fair take on it! 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2018 #4
Hillary didn't rape anyone, but she's a Democrat DFW Jan 2018 #5
"Hillary didn't rape anyone"... Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #11
and a woman triron Jan 2018 #19
The Repubs have been investigating the Clintons for nearly 30 years and the only thing they have on madinmaryland Jan 2018 #7
Your conclusions cannot be drawn from the statements delisen Jan 2018 #8
I agree. Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #14
Here's the article on Thrush. rogue emissary Jan 2018 #21
Well thought out and stated... Rollo Jan 2018 #28
sounds like she EVALUATED the situation Skittles Jan 2018 #9
You're right! Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #20
I don't that is what you are trying to say at all Skittles Jan 2018 #25
What is that supposed to mean? Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #31
I am LEAVING IT AT THAT Skittles Jan 2018 #32
The accuser should not have been moved unless she wanted to move. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #10
"the victim of harassment who is given a small token payment and fired..." Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #22
There was someone on CNN this morning who said she spoke to the victim..... George II Jan 2018 #34
PLEASE STOP THIS! samnsara Jan 2018 #12
I must respectfully disagree. Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #24
There was already a discussion here on DU with more than 300 replies based on the very same..... George II Jan 2018 #35
The headlines should be changed to Clinton shielded the victim... chowder66 Jan 2018 #13
Funny (not) how Hillary and other Dems get more negative consequences than SHITLER for his shitload UTUSN Jan 2018 #15
women are held to a higher standard Skittles Jan 2018 #17
Yup. They even tried to turn weinstein into hillarys fault JI7 Jan 2018 #29
Do you wonder why this has come up now, nearly 10 years after the act? Arkansas Granny Jan 2018 #16
Good point. Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #26
I wonder that, Granny mcar Jan 2018 #39
My take is that it's a carefully timed distraction while Trump's most vulnerable. n/t Akoto Jan 2018 #18
I would have thought she'd stood up for me by fining the guy 3 months of pay. pnwmom Jan 2018 #23
One risks an 'alert' responding to the issue left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #27
In a tribal setting mythology can be very powerful. jalan48 Jan 2018 #45
+1 PDittie Jan 2018 #46
Indeed. ehrnst Jan 2018 #62
Look at the reports coming out, you'll learn that the "accuser" (she was NOT the "accuser".... George II Jan 2018 #30
You make some good points. Shemp Howard Jan 2018 #33
They also don't last after being hung out in the sunlight. ehrnst Jan 2018 #58
Amazon has a good selection. You can find anything on Amazon. Today browsing I saw the cutest lunamagica Jan 2018 #40
Socks. Blue_true Jan 2018 #49
Pretty amazing for the NYT after Glenn Thrush. ehrnst Jan 2018 #60
Some people are making a lot of assumptions based on what mariesa Jan 2018 #36
Are you serious...I didn't see the sarcasm thingy. BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #38
You don't believe the action taken was appropriate? mariesa Jan 2018 #43
I clearly misread. My apologies. BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #48
Welcome to DU gopiscrap Jan 2018 #61
Wtf BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #37
It's an attempt to divert from Winn, Mueller, Davos, Mueller, and le scandale de jour tRump. nt Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2018 #41
I dont even care...... Katinfl Jan 2018 #42
Hm.... ehrnst Jan 2018 #44
She took the inadequate action that was common before the Me-too movement. Blue_true Jan 2018 #47
Why should the offender have been fired? They followed.... LAS14 Jan 2018 #50
In campaigns, as in companies radical noodle Jan 2018 #54
I differ slightly from your thoughts as outlined... NCTraveler Jan 2018 #51
I just don't think this is relevant thbobby Jan 2018 #52
You left out a big part. She docked the offender 3 months pay. brush Jan 2018 #53
Here is my take. No where in the article did they go to Hillary Clinton, who they are accusing still_one Jan 2018 #55
What this is all about... quickesst Jan 2018 #56
10 years later MFM008 Jan 2018 #57
You're right. It's time we extend the zero tolerance policy on harassment to all Democrats ehrnst Jan 2018 #59

sharedvalues

(6,916 posts)
1. Yeah, I dont care. Im focused on GOP and the president.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:07 PM
Jan 2018

I’m worried about stopping the propaganda media and the GOP billionaires that want to destroy our government to enrich themselves.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
6. The "I don't care" is, I believe, too simplistic.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:16 PM
Jan 2018

I hope that we can multi-task here. I hope that we can discuss Trump's many mistakes, while at the same time we can discuss the errors made from our own side.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
2. That seems about right.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:08 PM
Jan 2018

If there was anything more to it than that, the T___p people would have tried to exploit it during the campaign(especially right after the "grab them by the p___y" thing happened).

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
3. Glad you posted this.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:08 PM
Jan 2018

I have been trying to think how to state my feelings on the episode without much success.

This view expresses pretty well how I see it, from my chair 9 years later and having not been there.
I do lean more to the side of she could/should have responded differently.

But....

DFW

(53,723 posts)
5. Hillary didn't rape anyone, but she's a Democrat
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:13 PM
Jan 2018

So with her it's a scandal if she was guilty of littering while working on the Goldwater campaign.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
11. "Hillary didn't rape anyone"...
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:24 PM
Jan 2018

Yes, that is a key point! I should have mentioned something like that in my original post.

Hillary in no way was a perpetrator here. She tried to manage a bad situation as best she thought. In my opinion, she could have done better. But she was not a perpetrator.

madinmaryland

(64,883 posts)
7. The Repubs have been investigating the Clintons for nearly 30 years and the only thing they have on
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:17 PM
Jan 2018

them is a lie about a consensual blow job. Nothing else. They never even attempted anything with President Obama, because there was nothing there to investigate.

Eight years of Obama = ZERO indictments.
One year of Trump = DOZENS of indictments with MANY more on the way.

delisen

(6,036 posts)
8. Your conclusions cannot be drawn from the statements
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:22 PM
Jan 2018

in the article.

1. You do not know the written harassment policy of the organization.

2. You do not now whether H. Clinton had an official role in carrying out any policy.

3. You do not know whether the accuser was satisfied with the outcome, or whether she had been presented with a choice and made her own decision regarding a change in her role.

The article does include a statement from the law firm for the campaign.

“To ensure a safe working environment, the campaign had a process to address complaints of misconduct or harassment. When matters arose, they were reviewed in accordance with these policies, and appropriate action was taken. This complaint was no exception,” read a statement from Utrecht, Kleinfeld, Fiori, Partners, the law firm that represented Clinton’s campaign in 2008.

Interestingly, The NY Times has recently punished a high profile employee, Glenn Thrush, for harassment. The outcome was reportedly that the harasser forfeited pay for several weeks but was not fired.




Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
14. I agree.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:32 PM
Jan 2018

Yes, I do not know all the details. It is quite possible that Hillary knew nothing about this particular sexual harassment situation. And it is quite possible that the accuser was happy about how things turned out.

Perhaps some subordinate called all the shots. Perhaps Hillary was not in the loop at all. But the buck stops at the top. In many respects, that's unfair. But that's how it is.

rogue emissary

(3,145 posts)
21. Here's the article on Thrush.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:49 PM
Jan 2018
Glenn Thrush, Suspended Times Reporter, to Resume Work but Won’t Cover White House

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/business/media/glenn-thrush-suspension-white-house.html

Very similar actions to what Clinton's campaign did in '08. It's interesting that the New York Times article doesn't reference their company's handling of this sexual harassment case.

Rollo

(2,559 posts)
28. Well thought out and stated...
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:21 PM
Jan 2018

It also occurred to me the following conversation might have taken place:

Hillary: "Well, what would you like to see happen here?"

Accuser: "I would like to see the accused judged and punished, and I would like to be reassigned to such and such a job and/or location. That would make me happy."

Hillary: "Requests granted. Anything else?"

It's also possible that Hillary regarded the accused as too valuable in his position to be reassigned permanently. But we don't know that, just as we don't know if the accuser requested the transfer.

And all of this is a distraction from what everyone here should want: to defeat the GOP and retake Congress in 2018, and retake the White House in 2020. Dwelling on this 10 year old matter doesn't help anyone but the GOP and Trump.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
20. You're right!
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:40 PM
Jan 2018

The response to Al Franken's offense was so extreme that even now I cannot grasp it. Yes, the punishment must fit the crime. Al made a mistake. But he was dealt out a capital punishment. That was wrong.

The same goes with this Hillary "scandal". A mistake was made. But it was not a capital offense. That's all I'm trying to say here.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
31. What is that supposed to mean?
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:43 PM
Jan 2018

Are you saying that I didn't post this topic for fair discussion purposes? Are you saying that I had some nefarious plot in mind?

I should be very offended by that, but I'm not. Because you're right. My lifelong reputation as a progressive has all been just a sham. I posted this topic on orders of Karl Rove. But of course he's just a front. My true overlords are the Illuminati.

Does that make you feel better?

Sheesh. Stray off the plantation even an inch and someone will wack you. But I'll give you credit for one thing. At least you didn't use vulgar language when you maligned me.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
10. The accuser should not have been moved unless she wanted to move.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:23 PM
Jan 2018

It always, in my experience, seems to be the victim of harassment who is given a small token payment and fired or moved to another job. It should be the harasser who is fired and moved if the harassment can be proved or obviously happened.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
22. "the victim of harassment who is given a small token payment and fired..."
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:49 PM
Jan 2018

That is so true...so sadly true. I've seen many examples of that in my own workplace. How can someone fight against that? Perhaps all stories of harassment should be openly discussed, and let the chips fall where they might.

That's just what I'm trying to do here.

George II

(67,782 posts)
34. There was someone on CNN this morning who said she spoke to the victim.....
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:10 PM
Jan 2018

....and she was satisfied with the resolution.

As I pointed out elsewhere here, none of us were involved in any of those discussions way back in 2008. It could very well be that she wanted to go somewhere else in the campaign. None of us know. I seriously doubt, knowing Hillary Clinton's advocacy for women over the last 50 years AND her own experience as First Lady, that she treated this lightly.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
24. I must respectfully disagree.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:02 PM
Jan 2018

When Republicans behave in a less than an exemplary manner, we should call them out. We should point out the errors in their ways, and we should suggest better options.

Should not the same apply to our side? But we must be careful here! If we are too critical, we will do more harm than good. And if we are not critical enough, our errors won't be acknowledged and corrected.

George II

(67,782 posts)
35. There was already a discussion here on DU with more than 300 replies based on the very same.....
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:12 PM
Jan 2018

....article.

chowder66

(8,904 posts)
13. The headlines should be changed to Clinton shielded the victim...
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:30 PM
Jan 2018

which is more than many do. The media has flipped the script to make it seem salacious.

Keeping him on is not siding with the offender if punishment is doled out to the victims satisfaction.

There are a lot of people that need counseling who never get it, it may not have an effect but you can't know that until it's tried.

Per a poster in another thread someone spoke to the victim and she was satisfied with how it was handled.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210150243

Arkansas Granny

(31,451 posts)
16. Do you wonder why this has come up now, nearly 10 years after the act?
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:35 PM
Jan 2018

It distracts from Trump’s situation and reinforces the claim that "both sides do it". Someone is manipulating the narrative.

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
26. Good point.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:07 PM
Jan 2018

The whole Statute of Limitation thing has merit. It has merit regardless of who the accuser is, and who the accused is.

So yes, any story this old gives me pause.

pnwmom

(108,870 posts)
23. I would have thought she'd stood up for me by fining the guy 3 months of pay.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 04:58 PM
Jan 2018

And depending on what job I was moved to, I might have been fine with that change, too.

(When I was harassed at work, I was pleased that my boss yelled at the harasser and made him stop. I would have been shocked if the guy had lost 3 months of pay. Hillary's action was quite firm for ten years ago.)

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
27. One risks an 'alert' responding to the issue
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:20 PM
Jan 2018

Not in what you posted,
but too many fingers hover over 'alert' on certain topics.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
62. Indeed.
Sun Jan 28, 2018, 07:18 PM
Jan 2018

We see it here all the time.

Especially when it comes to the feeding frenzy on the Clintons.

George II

(67,782 posts)
30. Look at the reports coming out, you'll learn that the "accuser" (she was NOT the "accuser"....
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:35 PM
Jan 2018

....she was the VICTIM!) was consulted at the time and she was satisfied with the resolution. Who knows, maybe she wanted a different position in the campaign and the arrangements were welcome. We don't know - I don't and you don't.

And how do you know Hillary Clinton didn't stand up for the victim, were you involved in those discussions and conversations back in 2008?

That article has already been posted (surely you've see it), and the NY Times headline is a gross misrepresentation of what really happened.

Now I've got to go out shopping, I need a new pair of socks. Know where I can get some?

Shemp Howard

(889 posts)
33. You make some good points.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 05:52 PM
Jan 2018

You said "And how do you know Hillary Clinton didn't stand up for the victim..."

On reflection, I guess she did stand up for the victim. Hillary believed the victim, and Hillary took action to try to rectify the situation. I just wish Hillary would have done more. This pig (Burns Strider) should have been fired, and he should have been barred from any future involvement in Democrat politics. That's Monday-morning quarterbacking, I know.

As for the socks, I buy mine at Wal-Mart. And I always regret it, as the socks tear long before they should.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
40. Amazon has a good selection. You can find anything on Amazon. Today browsing I saw the cutest
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:53 PM
Jan 2018

puppets!

Where else can you find both socks and puppets? It's amazing.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
49. Socks.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:05 PM
Jan 2018

There is a made in America Supplier names Boardroom Socks. Decent selection of darker business dress socks, may have updated inventories, they seem to do that occasionally.

You can also check the site MadeinUSAForeever.com, it lists some USA garment makers.

 

mariesa

(59 posts)
36. Some people are making a lot of assumptions based on what
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:15 PM
Jan 2018

was reported in the New York Times. I would like to have more clarity, but due to non disclosure contracts, that's not likely to happen.

While it's reported that Burns Strider was not fired, that does not mean he remained active on the campaign. His pay was docked for several weeks and he was ordered to counseling. Since it was reported that he refused counseling, it may be that he just stopped working for the campaign. So not technically fired, but not actively working either.

The young woman worked under Burns Strider, so it makes sense that she would have to be given a new position, especially since Strider was no longer active with the campaign.

I fail to see how this is a scandal at all. The woman came forward and appropriate action was taken.

 

mariesa

(59 posts)
43. You don't believe the action taken was appropriate?
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 07:07 PM
Jan 2018

A statement included in the New York Times article.

“To ensure a safe working environment, the campaign had a process to address complaints of misconduct or harassment. When matters arose, they were reviewed in accordance with these policies, and appropriate action was taken,” the statement said. “This complaint was no exception.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/us/politics/hillary-clinton-chose-to-shield-a-top-adviser-accused-of-harassment-in-2008.html

It seems to me that the situation was addressed, and the harasser was removed.
 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
48. I clearly misread. My apologies.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:04 PM
Jan 2018

Several posts here recently using this same story to bash HRC, including this op, I approached your post in the wrong frame of mind

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
37. Wtf
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:23 PM
Jan 2018

So more negative posts about Hillary...because you are worried she's running for something? Or perhaps she may have a political opinon that may sing Trump that we at DU need a preemptive slap down? Or pehaps there isn't enough RW hypocrisy on this subject alone, to drown out this story 50 times over?

Katinfl

(150 posts)
42. I dont even care......
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 06:57 PM
Jan 2018

that was in 2008, she is now a private citizen, case closed. As long as Trump sits in the WH and is never called out about his past disgressions/harassment allegations.....I rest my case. I am so sick of calling out all these people and them losing their jobs, or quitting their jobs, etc. and he sits in the WH and supposedly all is well........I do not condone what has gone down with these guys but let’s get real people ..........the biggest perpetrator of them all seems to defy it all. Until, and unless he is called out for who and what he is, I could not care less about any of it. JMHO.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
47. She took the inadequate action that was common before the Me-too movement.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 07:43 PM
Jan 2018

She is being criticized against standards established after the Me-Too movement. I doubt that she would make the same decision today. The abuser should have been either fired or punished, stripped of authority over anyone and reassigned.

LAS14

(13,724 posts)
50. Why should the offender have been fired? They followed....
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:08 PM
Jan 2018

... written policies that did not require firing for ALL kinds of misconduct. Which I think is a rational approach.

radical noodle

(7,968 posts)
54. In campaigns, as in companies
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:38 PM
Jan 2018

there are policies to follow for all sorts of things. Harassment, drugs, drinking, etc, all have a designated policy that requires following certain requirements. If one does not follow the correct procedure, another employee can claim they were discriminated against. It sounds as though there was a policy in the campaign with steps to be followed in this situation and they followed them.

This is all done to once again try to divide Democrats, and we've once again fallen into the pit over a poorly written article with little of the necessary information to get the whole story.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
51. I differ slightly from your thoughts as outlined...
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jan 2018

But do think you present it in a very fair manner. I’m very close to that.

Still, considering many of the conversations in this area, I think it should have been mentioned that she was neither an aggressor or perpetrator.

Thanks for sharing such clear and just thoughts.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
52. I just don't think this is relevant
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:19 PM
Jan 2018

Hillary is not president.

The situation was resolved. We can argue all we want to about how it should have been handled. But we were not there. Nor do we have all the facts.

I am not saying sexual harassment is not a big deal. It certainly is. It is just misguided to argue about this when we are just guessing about what happened.

brush

(52,856 posts)
53. You left out a big part. She docked the offender 3 months pay.
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:30 PM
Jan 2018

Oh, and also: "It's Hillary's fault", and if it isn't hers "it's Obama's fault".

Typical repug scandal mongering—blame those two for everything that can get a "scandal" going"—and she isn't even president and won't ever be running for anything again.

Let's pls don't fall for anymore and please retire the "Blame Hillary and/or Obama" memes.

still_one

(91,445 posts)
55. Here is my take. No where in the article did they go to Hillary Clinton, who they are accusing
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 08:55 PM
Jan 2018

of inadequately punishing the offender, and asking for her comment today. If they did, they sure did not indicate that in the article, and not doing that is shoddy journalism. Perhaps she will use the excuse Judy Miller did when asked why weren't those who said there were no WMDs in Iraq, views presented in that article. "There wasn't enough space"

Not lost to ironically, one of the authors of the article, Maggie Haberman, is writing a book with sexual harasser Glenn Thrush, who the NY Times only briefly suspended, and is back at work at the NY Times. Perhaps Ms. Haberman can write a follow-up article on how the NY Times is only giving a slap on the wrist of Glenn Thrush. I suspect that will never happen.

and this isn't the first time they have done this.

It was only a few months ago when the NY Times blamed the Democrats, and specifically President Obama for being responsible for pushing republicans to be climate change deniers because of the "Democratic hubris in the Obama years":

"The Republican Party’s fast journey from debating how to combat human-caused climate change to arguing that it does not exist is a story of big political money, Democratic hubris in the Obama years and a partisan chasm that grew over nine years like a crack in the Antarctic shelf, favoring extreme positions and uncompromising rhetoric over cooperation and conciliation."

They then proceeded in the article to make excuses for the republicans by saying "most republicans do not believe climate change is a hoax"

“Most Republicans still do not regard climate change as a hoax,” said Whit Ayres, a Republican strategist who worked for Senator Marco Rubio’s presidential campaign. “But the entire climate change debate has now been caught up in the broader polarization of American politics.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/us/politics/republican-leaders-climate-change.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

They sure didn't solicit President Obama's view on that accusation






quickesst

(6,277 posts)
56. What this is all about...
Sat Jan 27, 2018, 09:51 PM
Jan 2018

.... Is a bunch of people making a bunch of accusations and assumptions based on very little information. Business as usual.

MFM008

(19,745 posts)
57. 10 years later
Sun Jan 28, 2018, 12:08 AM
Jan 2018

And her out of office.
What's left to say?
Or do...except concentrate on voting OUT
Republicans and neutralize the maggot.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
59. You're right. It's time we extend the zero tolerance policy on harassment to all Democrats
Sun Jan 28, 2018, 08:47 AM
Jan 2018

Last edited Mon Jan 29, 2018, 07:25 AM - Edit history (1)

And all campaigns, no matter how long ago, or how recent they are.

Any and all who run as Democrats.

Let sunshine be the best disinfectant.

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