I will get a ton of shit for this...

[gopiscrap]

If you are a gun owner..you are part of the violence problem this nation has....you perpetuate belligerence and vengence...yes go ahead and slaughter me verbally, but from my perspective being a liberal Christian, Christ never had a gun..he also said, "turn the other cheek"

[pintobean]

1. And for some reason

you didn't make it to congress.

[gopiscrap]

5. Didn't express those sentiments on the campaign trail

but I did stand up for what I believed in (got the Brady endorsement Handgun Control INC) and got 42% of the vote..the point of the campaig was to movce the conversation to the left in which we more than suceeded.

[loli phabay]

17. was wondering why you didnt express those positions

Are these something uou have come to lately or was it a strategic decision in your campaign. Thanks

[gopiscrap]

21. been evolving to this point more and more after seeing all the tragic events

in this nation in the past 22 years since I ran.

[loli phabay]

26. oops thought you run was more recent so that would explain it lol

[teddy51]

2. Disagree! As Michael Moore stated tonight on Piers Morgan and I agree, guns are not the problem,

but people are. Guns don't kill people. I do agree that we need to eliminate assault weapons from general sales to the public.

[TroglodyteScholar]

9. Read this statement a few times. Really let it sink in.

Guns don't kill people.

Inarguably wrong. Guns kill anything, including people.

[Skip Intro]

13. People kill using guns. Guns are inanimate objects. Let that sink in.

[TroglodyteScholar]

25. Next time you need to drive a nail through something...

...go ahead and try doing that without a hammer.

The fact that it's a tool doesn't negate its role in the act. It's absolutely absurd to claim otherwise.

[Skip Intro]

27. They don't fire themselves. nt

[TroglodyteScholar]

33. I never claimed that they do.

You can spew unsubstantial one-liners all day long, but the fact is guns enable people to do massive damage with minimal effort. They are the drive-thru fast food of killing.

You may be a perfectly responsible gun owner, and I can accept that. But you can't for a moment make the claim that all gun owners who obtain their weapons legally are worthy of the responsibility. Now, since it's so very important to make guns available with few or no restrictions, what is your solution to that very obvious and undeniable problem?

[Ikonoklast]

56. And nations don't arm their soldiers with hammers.

These attempts at equivocation are tiresome.

[sabrina 1]

79. Nukes don't kill people, people kill people.

Why can't everyone own a nuke?

[beevul]

32. No wonder the job market is not better than it is...

Hammers are building houses and all the construction workers are sitting at home.

[TroglodyteScholar]

37. Using the eye roll icon isn't a substitute for holding and defending a reasonable position.

All those construction workers would be at a loss without the tools they use. It's not that difficult to comprehend.

I'll skip the emoticon, as I am confident enough in my position that I don't need a little picture to belittle the person I'm debating.

[ellisonz]

66. +1

"It's absolutely absurd to claim otherwise."

[Scootaloo]

72. I've always looked at that Argument like this...

"Guns don't kill people; people kill people!" is a lot like saying "Ferraris don't go fast; people go fast."

The tool used does count, in other words. It's a lot easier for a person with a ferrari to go fast, and it's a lot easier for a person with a gun to kill people.

[teddy51]

19. I'm not giving you an argument from someone who owns a gun, cause I don't. I hate guns, and I hate

killing. I am a hypocrite, cause I do eat meat, but if I had to survive on what I killed I would starve to death.

The simple fact is we have lived in a GW Bush/Cheney world for 8 years, and before that a Vietnam world where guns killing people was everyday news. We have lived with video games that depict killing as a great thing. So when shit like Colorado happen, who the F**k is to blame for this?

[TroglodyteScholar]

31. Individuals are to blame, but various aspects of US government and culture play a strong role

1) The courts' willful misinterpretation of the 2nd amendment
2) Government focus on military "solutions"
3) Glorification of gun violence in mass media
4) Xenophobia
5) Territorialism
6) General distrust of others, as established and reinforced by the above

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Shit, I guess all my guns are broken.

[rustydog]

80. What gun supporters, perhaps intentionally, forget to note is that guns are made

solely to kill a living thing. period. end of statement.

the discussion should be, what do we do as a nation, as a civilized nation, to try to reduce the insane numbers of gun inflicted injuries and deaths?

[Zoeisright]

14. Right. And I guess the gun death stats are just lies, huh?

I mean, 10,000 Americans killed every year by guns, as opposed to something like 14 in England and 47 in Japan. Nooottthhhinnnngg to do with guns.

Right.

[beevul]

34. How many people are killed with ALL rifles, not just what people are calling "assault rifles"?N/T

[EX500rider]

60. And the answer is....

2009 FBI Murder Statistics By Type Of Weapon Used
13,636 total murders

Murders with handguns – 6452 (47.32%)
Murders with rifles – 348 (2.55%)
Murders with shotguns – 418 (3.07%)
Murders with unknown firearms – 1928 (14.14%)
Murder with knives or cutting instruments – 1825 (13.38%)
Murders with other weapons – 1864 (13.67%)
Murders with hands, fists, feet etc.. – 801 (5.87%)

[jillan]

16. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people.

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. It's amazing the number of people that believe in animism, isn't it?

[calimary]

64. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Yes. With guns.

'Fraid I've kinda gravitated over toward the position stated by the OP. Call it another casualty at the hands of a certain Mr. Holmes of Aurora CO. Something inside me just snapped with this one.

[RoccoR5955]

3. You wouldn't be surprised but...

Many of these "Christians" believe that the shooter should be killed. When they are asked what makes their decision any better than the shooters, or since when is it ok according to their 10 commandments to kill someone, all I hear are crickets.

[gopiscrap]

6. My faith system as a liberal Christian

does not believe in the use of state sanctioned death penalty

[baldguy]

4. K&R

The simplest truths often get the most shit. Especially when powerful special interests are heavily invested in keeping lies alive.

[gopiscrap]

7. Thank you!

[cliffordu]

8. Yawn.

Thanks for sharing.

[lonestarnot]

10. Snort.

[cliffordu]

69. Poot.

Howareya!!??

[lonestarnot]

73. LOL

Doing fantastically! Well, maybe not so much. LOL. Am still trying to build a freeway! How bout you?

[cliffordu]

74. Doing the best Lebowski I can.

little as possible....lol...

[loli phabay]

11. i know for a fact jesus packed heat as ive seen a pic on the internet and the net never lies

[FrodosPet]

65. Proof that Jesus was a heat packing killing machine

[Skip Intro]

12. Take the guns from the criminals first, then we can talk.

Google armed robbery and/or murder for virtually any city over 100,000 and see what you get.

The death toll in CO was a Saturday night in many cities.

I'm all for getting guns out of the hands of criminals, but not law-abiding citizens.

I have a right to protect my self, family and property. That is a choice for me to make, not anyone else.

And the fact that I do or will own a gun does not, NOT, contribute to violence. Unless you'd call self-defense violence.

[tawadi]

38. A voice of reason

Thank you.

[Hoyt]

54. Yeah, Zimmerman was that way right before he shot unarmed teenager.

[L0oniX]

15. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Here's your TOS:

[bhikkhu]

18. If you are a penis owner, you're part of the violence against women problem...

as long as we are into false equivalence.

Plenty of gun owners refrain from killing sprees, just as plenty of penis owners refrain from rape. Of course, gun ownership is more of a choice, but the issue in both cases is self control, not simple possession.

[gopiscrap]

22. Dumb correlation IMHO

a gun is designed to kill, a penis isn't

[AtheistCrusader]

48. He didn't say penises kill anyone.

[gopiscrap]

51. a gun is also designed to injure

where as a penis isn't

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Keep flailing.

[calimary]

62. I have, however, seen a few killer penises...

[chknltl]

63. Penises don't kill people, dicks do.

Sorry, someone was gonna say it, i wanted to be first. Might make for a great t-shirt.

[Reasonable_Argument]

23. By that logic

Everyone who follows Islam is responsible for Islamic terrorism. See how silly that sounds? You're letting your emotions get the better of your reason.

[snooper2]

24. have you actually ever seen a ton of shit before?

The key is, what animal produced the shit...

A ton of rabbit poo is a lot more pleasant to deal with than a ton of fresh cow shit

[gopiscrap]

29. I should also add

that I saw Chris Christie on TV yesterday

[L0oniX]

30. See post #15

[gopiscrap]

28. Yes I have seen a ton of shit

every time I look at the gop side of the house or rep or US Senate I see more than a ton of shit!!!

[VOX]

36. Nailed it!

[VOX]

35. Props to the OP for making a statement and taking a stand...

Although I disagree in part. For every nutcase, there are countless responsible gun owners who do not wish to be a part of the cycle of violence, but who want some protection from that cycle should it enter their lives unbidden.

[aikoaiko]

39. As a gun owner 8 times over, I'm fine with your opinion of me.

I'll fight back when violence comes my way and I'll never tell anyone to turn the other cheek to endure more violence.

[indivisibleman]

40. They that live by the sword will die by the sword. -Jesus

A violent man will die a violent death. -Lao Tsu

[Reasonable_Argument]

43. Well

"Those who hammer their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't".

[indivisibleman]

45. that's funny.

[gopiscrap]

44. Thank you!!!

[bluesbassman]

49. ...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. -Jesus

Full verse: Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. Pencils create libel. Therefore, all writers are responsible for libel.

Christ didn't have a gun because Jerusalem didn't have a Second Amendment. That and the fact that guns were extremely hard to find...

I for one don't mind saying your post is moronic and inane.

[indivisibleman]

42. No, they had swords and

they were able to get a hold of a few pretty quickly that night in the garden.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. I'm not a christian. So I don't care what your religious dogma specifies.

With the exception of a couple american rifles that saw duty in WWII, none of my firearms have ever killed anyone, and I doubt they ever will.

I am not a part of any violence problem. I am not a pacifist, but I do live by the non-aggression principle. It's served me well, and the community has nothing to fear from me. Plus, I keep my guns well secured.

[Posteritatis]

50. Heh, claiming Christian credentials quickly followed by not not judging. Classy. (nt)

[harun]

53. You getting shit for what you said is due to a void of logic, critical thought and reason.

Although you think it is from the content, it isn't.

You aren't speaking a language many here will understand or be swayed by. Learn the language, you'll be glad you did.

[tularetom]

55. You don't know me and I resent your characterization of me

I own more than one firearm. None of which I would ever use except for sport or self defense.

I also strive to conduct my life free of "belligerence and vengeance".

And I turn the other cheek whenever I can reasonably do so.

Not because of anything Christ or anybody else ever said. Just because I can see how destructive these types of emotions can be.

I would live my life the same way if guns had never been invented.

[JohnnyRingo]

57. It's getting ridiculous here.

There's barely any credibility anymore when I suspect people are posting something divisive just to see how many comments they can rack up. Now it's part of the subject line.

I hardly believe people are even sincere about their posts anymore. Is there a record number you're fishing for with this flame bait?

[gopiscrap]

59. I have always been anti gun

and anti was a co as a 16 year old....don't judge why I made a post

[pipoman]

58. Thank your Jesus

our Bill of Rights isn't based on the gopiscrap standard of anything. You can turn the other cheek as someone massacres your family...I am going to give myself and my family every advantage if a tornado comes, a fire, or a home invasion..

[bluedigger]

61. I also burn carbon fuels and contribute to global climate change.

And then there are the heavy metals in this pc that was built with Chinese slave labor. I'm a conscienceless global mass murderer really.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

67. Then in your view I am a very serious part of the problem

I freely donate my time and resources to teach firearms usage and safety to people on the weekends. Most of my students are women and GBLTs, many being ethnic or racial minorities as well. The class qualifies them to take the CA handgun test. Then most (not all) go on to purchase semi-automatic handguns for self defense. The people I teach are those that need effective self defense options and tend not to have it. Until someone comes out with a Phaser locked on stun, I will continue to teach firearms to those who need it.

[The Doctor.]

68. One of my rules it to try to ignore ignorance where possible.

You've demonstrated such profound, deliberate, and militant ignorance with just this one OP. I can't believe the flamebait POS was allowed to stand.

Welcome to ignore.

[spin]

70. Here's a post that I consider to be even worse ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1011364

It is sad that some here will agree with the linked article.

[Scootaloo]

71. Actually, I do the opposite

But I get where you're going.

[Dr. Strange]

75. Martin Luther King, Jr perpetuated belligerence and vengeance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/mlk-and-his-guns_b_810132.html

Or maybe, just maybe, you can be a gun owner and still be a good liberal.

[benEzra]

76. If you are a Christian, you are responsible for abortion clinic violence and fundy authoritarianism.

It's so much fun to identify an out-group that *you* don't belong to, and smear them all with the behavior of extreme outliers. Just like Jesus would do...oh, wait, he didn't...

[deaniac21]

77. Was he talking about the face or the ass?

I've never been able to figure it out.

[Autumn]

84. My Mom always said to turn the other cheek, but you only have 2 cheeks. After that you

smite them with righteous anger and you better kick their ass.

[deaniac21]

85. Every one has 2 facial cheeks and 2 butt cheeks.

I'm confused.

[ileus]

78. Everyone knows all gun owners are hidden criminals and killer wannabes

I read it from some guy in Italy.

[MicaelS]

81. Since you like to smear with a board brush...

Let's see how you like it.

As a Christian, that means you’re partly responsible for every act of bigotry, hatred, assault, child molestation, bombing and murder that your fellow Christian have perpetrated in the last few decades.

As you might have noticed, religion isn’t very well liked on DU. Even “liberal” Christians here get ridiculed for their beliefs, just as I have done to you. To me you’re no different from Conservative Christians who try to use the Bible to foist their morality on others.

And a Liberal Christian, you might want to peruse these articles:

Is liberal Christianity signing its own death warrant?
[link:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/opinion/sunday/douthat-can-liberal-christianity-be-saved.html?_r=1|
Can Liberal Christianity Be Saved?]

[raouldukelives]

82. Liberal Christian seems like an oxymoron.

If following the teachings of Jesus Christ as closely as possible is what makes you a "Christian" then that person would most certainly be a liberal. Since the teachings preclude you from judging anyone based on their appearance, sex, social status or wealth. Indeed, the more wealth, the more they are failing to uphold themselves to the standards of Christianity. Only by devoting themselves to uplifting and speaking out for the very least among us can one start to achieve the idea of being a Christian. Only by standing firm and refusing to lie, cheat, steal, kill, judge, covet or feast on fine foods while others sleep in the cold can one start to call themselves a Christian. The idea that there could be anything other than a liberal Christian is part of the problem.

[gopiscrap]

83. THANK YOU

[Courtesy Flush]

86. Oxymoron is the wrong word

Atheist Christian would be an example of an oxymoron. In other words, a term that contradicts itself, not one that is redundant.