Fmr. Assist. Dir. of FBI Counterintel just made my point: "There's something about the Page wiretap"

[bigtree]

Last edited Sat Feb 3, 2018, 04:18 PM - Edit history (4)

_____________________________

Frank Figliuzzi, Fmr. Assist. Dir. of Counterintelligence at the FBI, on AM Joy, fleshing out questions I posed on a post yesterday:

Figliuzzi:

"Some Predictive analysis... What I'm smelling here is fear. There is something about this investigation, something about the special counsel's work, something about that Carter Page wiretap... This memo was derived from 'TS"...There was signal intelligence inside that affidavit...most often used against a foreign intelligence service. So, people who are privy to that underlying affidavit are very afraid that it shows intercepted, incidentally or deliberately, foreign intelligence services or governments talking about Page, or Page talking with them about the President.

There's significance to the fact that this memo was originally top secret."

Wow.


my post:

Case against Trump collusion may rise or fall on evidence gathered under FISA warrant of Carter Page

Ted Lieu @tedlieu 8h8 hours ago
Now that folks realize the #NunesMemo is a nothing burger, let's ask the real questions:
-Why is @realDonaldTrump so scared of the @FBI surveillance of Carter Page?
-What did that surveillance reveal that caused multiple judges to extend it?
-What's in the Carter Page tapes?


read/watch clip: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/im-smelling-fear-ex-fbi-counter-intel-director-claims-nunes-memo-release-shows-white-house-desperation/

Link to tweet

[beachbum bob]

1. its all guesswork now, until information is release, I stay away from rumors and opinion

[bigtree]

3. it's called predictive analysis

...most people who insist they're staying away from speculation can't seem to get enough of shooting down opinion with their own.

Frankly, I don't know why anyone bothers to participate in discussions on a political board and insist they're against speculating. What's left? Regurgitating news reports? Parroting pols? Opinion is a large part of our discussions here. Why would it be any less relevant from an informed source?

[beachbum bob]

16. there are plenty of actual facts, tactics and strategies that can easily be discussed

speculation and "preictive analysis are other words for alternative facts. Hyperbole discussions leads nowhere except a series of what-ifs....talking about how to help a local candidate get elected can get a local candidate elected.

[bigtree]

21. you're really straining

...why jump into the middle of a discussion to declare you're not interested?

I'm not buying it.

[iluvtennis]

39. Ditto.

[erronis]

36. But being open about it being "analysis" or "predictive" is a lot different than Nunes Nonsence.

I don't agree with labeling this as "alternative facts", either. Facts are what has been proven. Alternative facts are lies.

Speculation, analysis, opinions are legit ways of dealing with the present and the future. And I think all such should be labeled as such rather than several media outlets (one in particular) that go with "it's been reported" innuendo.

Imagine driving a car down the highway without speculating about what might be happening around the bend. In my neck of the woods I slow down since there could be pedestrians with dogs and children, deer, slick ice. Those aren't alternate facts - they are part of what might need to be prepared for.

[iluvtennis]

40. Well said.

[Cha]

46. Exactly! Good grief.. "alternative facts"!

lol.. that's freaking what's her name's area of expertise.

I enjoy reading those on here who have been focused and paying attention so they can grasp WTH is going on with the trumputin collusion.

So many damn bad actors and moving parts!

[OhNo-Really]

29. s a nap! good one 🤓

[RandomAccess]

45. And it's exactly what makes someone like Malcolm Nance so

incredibly compelling. He's accumulated enough experience that he can very explain things the rest of us aren't aware of or haven't thought about and then go on to intelligently speculate about what what can, will or might come next.

I'm all in on predictive analysis.

Predictive analytics encompasses a variety of statistical techniques from predictive modelling, machine learning, and data mining that analyze current and historical facts to make predictions about future or otherwise unknown events. Wikipedia

[Wounded Bear]

2. We've surmised that since the beginning of this shitstorm...

Probably a major source of FISA warrants against Americans happen because they are picked up on surveillance targeting foreign operatives. The law basically states that if an American is picked up, they have to redact everything about that citizen until they get an operative FISA warrant.

The memo is a bread sandwich. There is not much 'there' there. But Mr Figliuzzi knows what he's talking about.

[Bleacher Creature]

4. What's "TS"?

I've long thought that Page has a much larger role in all this than what people are speculating. The only reason I harbor any doubt is that he also seems to be a complete buffoon, although that would make him that much more susceptible to being used by Russian intelligence (just like Trump).

[bigtree]

9. right

...I think he meant the memo was originally classified as Top Secret, or TS.

I'm thinking that's it because he came back to that point at the end of his remark. He was like, "look at the top of the memo..."

I'm going to try and get a vid or clip.

[Lithos]

10. Top Secret

Nt

[FSogol]

32. Terribly Sexy. It used to be Terribly Shy, but I've changed. - The World according to Garp by

John Irving

[Nederland]

5. Links?

No offense, but I suspect people care much more about the comments of a former FBI official than those of an anonymous poster on the internet. Maybe you could find a link to Figliuzzi's comments in a transcript on AM Joy?

[bigtree]

8. whatever

watch a rerun of the show. I took the time to transcribe what he said.

I do take offense. I'm not spending my time after working all night to come here bullshitting anyone. Most of the time I wonder why I bother.

[iluvtennis]

42. Link - there is article and also video of Figliuzzi's comments to Joy Reid/panel

‘What I’m smelling here is fear’: Ex-FBI counter-intel director claims Nunes memo release shows White House desperation




https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/im-smelling-fear-ex-fbi-counter-intel-director-claims-nunes-memo-release-shows-white-house-desperation/

[Nederland]

56. Thank you (nt)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. It does make one wonder why there's such a kerfuffle over Carter Page,

whom Trump's people dismissed as another covfefe boy who didn't actually know Trump at all and had no significant function in the campaign. If that's true, why are they freaking out over a FISA warrant on this insignificant, peripheral nobody? Page is (or seems to be, if that's his cover) a doofus, but for several years he had also been suspected of being either a Russian spy or a Russian asset, which is why FISA warrants were issued and renewed by four different judges. Is all the hysteria because the Trump campaign, wittingly or otherwise, hired a Russian spy? Inquiring minds want to know.

[AmericanActivist]

20. Yes, there is definitely something to this CP

piece of the puzzle. I mean why would these people cjoose CP as the hill to die on? There has to be a reason. What or who benefits from CP FISA info being “declassified” and released in such a blatantly political and reckless way? Is team tRump trying to clear CP? Or muddy the CP waters? If so, why? This action by Nunes Ryan Trump is another more direct shot in a war with the IC where Americans are collateral damage left to watch this horror scene unfolding.

[canetoad]

41. I'm betting there is a conversation or two

During the transition period, that involved Trump, Page and Nunes.

Valley Congressman Devin Nunes is helping President-elect Trump shape his cabinet. The Visalia Congressman says he got to know the President-elect during his two campaign trips to the Valley. That connection along with being Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee helped him get named to the transition team.

In the past week Nunes has spent a lot of time on conference calls as part of the Trump transition team. He's on the phone because the team meets in New York. Wednesday morning on Capitol Hill he was face to face with Reince Priebus, the President-elect's new chief of staff. "Donald Trump is about creating jobs. He knows there are a lot of jobs that can be created in the San Joaquin Valley if we get our water infrastructure working again."

http://kmph.com/news/local/congressman-nunes-explains-role-in-trump-transition-team

[triron]

26. Point well made.

[quartz007]

55. Kerfuffle according to rightwingers is

about obtaining FISA warrant on incomplete submission of evidence. I have heard this from every repug talking head. How high was Carter Page in the campaign is not their issue.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. Ignore your critics, I enjoy informed speculation like this. That is waht these places are for

DISCUSSION.

I say informed because those of us on DU are more informed than any citizen who is not on the inside of any of this, obviously.

My issue is the memo written by the traitors could have a recipe for chicken fried steak on it and all they have to do is hold it up, as was said on Maher and say "see, this is a piece of paper with words on it, so we have to fire rosenstein"

[OhNo-Really]

30. I 2nd - Thank you

[KewlKat]

11. He also said why would the US want to work with Russian counterintelligence

I never thought about it in that way before.

[bigtree]

14. I heard an analyst say they're notoriously unreliable

...and uncooperative, which is what most people would suspect.

[tblue37]

12. The Russians now know on exactly which dates Page was being wiretapped while

interacting with them.

[bigtree]

15. yep

...I can imagine there's likely more Russian intel can deduct from even these sparse pieces.

I'd like to think most of the damage was averted, but it's unclear if Trump or the republicans acted on ANY of the FBI cautions.

[Lonestarblue]

35. Perhaps that was deliberate.

With so much surveillance going on and Republicans not knowing how many FISA warrants have been issued, communicating secretly with Russian intelligence is risky. Carter Page seems to be at the center of something causing fear among Republicans. What better way to openly get dates to the Russians on Carter Page surveillance so they can act to create fake stories about Page and whoever else he might have incriminated.

[Tatiana]

13. Maybe Page can nail Trump.

Most of the other Trump administration-Russia dealings are all with staffers, family members, or people in Trump's circle. But so far, there hasn't been anything reported about Trump directly dealing with Russian intelligence or agents. I suspect Carter Page represents a direct tie between Russia and SCROTUS.

“I’ve never met Donald J Trump in my life, I’ve learned a lot from him, and I got great insights from that, from listening and studying the information that he – that he’s provided in public forums,” Page said.

Page, 47, is a graduate of the US Naval Academy with an MBA from New York University. He speaks Russian and got to know the country as an employee of Merrill Lynch’s Moscow office from 2004 to 2007.

Page has said he does not believe Russians tampered with the US election and dismissed the notion of any collusion between the campaign and Moscow. He has said the attention over his campaign activities has ruined his career and derailed his life.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/02/who-is-carter-page-trump-ex-adviser-memo-furore-russia-fbi

Do we really believe Page has never met Trump in his life?

[bigtree]

25. he's been real chatty

...likely he'll nail Trump inadvertently through all of the loose talk he's been doing around town.

Page is a Russian agent, that much is clear to me, whether witting or unwitting.

[FreepFryer]

17. He made a much more specific speculation (comms w FORINT re POTUS) than your general point.

But I know it feels good and reaffirming to know others are thinking along similar lines.

[bigtree]

19. well, to be fair

...all I have are questions (like most of us).

It was a good moment though, when he said (among other things), "There's something about the Page wiretap."

I was like, "YESSS!"

I mean, shit, it was the first time since I asked the questions that I found an expert observer who wasn't just invested in the popular notion that the memo was just some flunky fail.

[marylandblue]

18. Thanks for this, I was thinking the same thing

There must some really incriminating evidence in the Page files, so they are trying to suppress it, which only makes it more obvious. Much like Trump going out of his way to protect Flynn only made it more clear that Flynn was a key player.

[bigtree]

22. yes

...the thing right in front of us... the FISA warrant they're working so hard to discredit by throwing a bevy of Trump-appointed republicans and their beloved FISA court under the bus.

Great point about Flynn!

[AmericanActivist]

23. So their main goal was to discredit FISA? Is that

the idea? Clearly this memo didn’t do that. I think there is also the issue of intentionally endangering the intel process and sources and info from allies; you know, interfering with the work agents do therefore making us less secure and less safe.

[bigtree]

27. more like discrediting the FISA warrant

...the way it was obtained, arguing about some bias on Steele's part.

All of that seems to be a crap shoot if they expected this memo to serve as a general censure of Mueller, Rosenstein, or the FISA process, itself. The idea that this memo is some sort of slam dunk against the FBI is ludicrous.

More likely, this is about what's right in front of their complaints: the FISA warrant, itself. Why offer up Page as an example of innocence under assault by the government? He's filthy with Russian govt. contacts, even from a distance he looks shady as hell.

It just looks like a hail mary to try and upend something coming fast down the pike.

[marylandblue]

34. Does look like a hail Mary, but why throw the ball to Carter Page?

They were better off just attacking the Steele dossier directly, then going through this convoluted FISA thing. But maybe the idea is just to create confusion all around. All roads lead to Trump anyway.

[Blue_Roses]

49. I totally agree.

Not that my opinion matters in the whole scheme of things, but just having an idea now as to why Nunes sold his soul to the devil, speaks volumes. Carter Page is known for his love of everything Russian and even though he tries to deny it, it's blatantly obvious.

[erronis]

47. I agree - this is much bigger than this one issue. It is about disabling the US intel

We are already treated as suspect, ever since dump decided to expose intelligence to the rUSSRians about Israel.

I would have thought that putin would have taken a somewhat longer timeframe to infiltrate and incapacitate. Maybe this did start 10-20 years ago. Maybe we are now in the true execution phase.

I'd just hate to lose our brand of democracy while the shithole is pResident!!!!

[dalton99a]

24. Absolutely.

[dewsgirl]

28. Trump himself or transition members possibly, incidentaly swept

up speaking to Carter Page under FISA is my possible theory.

[Docreed2003]

31. You have to wonder why the focus of the memo was on Carter Page and his FISA warrant

And Trump’s obvious indignation over the memo. Considering the FISA warrant in question was issued AFTER Page had supposedly left the campaign, it does beg the question. Why is Trump so adamant that this nothingburger memo clears his name? I hadn’t thought about that until this post. It makes complete sense that Trump would do everything he could to discredit the Page FISA warrant if that surveillance contains information linking him or his campaign definitively to Russian collusion. If Nunes himself were included in that information, it would make sense why he is so insanely pushing this memo at the expense of his ,already diminished, credibility and why he now wants to take on FISA directly.

Yeah that’s a whole lot of mental masturbation, but it does connect some unexplained loose ends. We shall see, at least I hope we will!

[bigtree]

44. I've always thought Nunes might be covering for himself

...he's so brazen with these charades that it borders on the bizarre. You'd have my sympathy if find yourself stretching for reasons' he'd put himself so far out there with these wild, WH orchestrated accusations.

To me, this is the essence, the empty hand of republicanism on full display. Their bluff is called and they have virtually nothing of substance behind their blather.

I'm inclined to believe the bulk of the republican party is awash with Russian money, and that's why they're all so desperate to quash this investigation.

[Blue_Roses]

50. Nunes reminds me of the character in a

movie who tries to befriend the villian to save his ass, only to be killed/hurt/... in the long run. I'm trying to think of some movies like this specifically.

[Auntie Bush]

53. Thats exactly what Ive been thinking. Most the Rethug party are beholding to the Russians.

I believe they all received big money for their elections...now it’s payback time. Can’t tell me Ryan didn’t get Russian money.😬

[forgotmylogin]

33. Their whole modus operandi has been projection.

The stuff they howl the loudest about other people doing is the stuff they're most afraid of.

It's like the proverbial murderer who gets pulled over for a broken tail light and volunteers "THERE'S NOTHING IN THE TRUNK BUT WINDSHIELD WIPER FLUID AND JUMPER CABLES, OFFICER! YOU CERTAINLY DON'T NEED TO SEARCH THERE!"

[Nitram]

37. Pass the popcorn.

The suspense is killing me.

[erronis]

48. Hope you have time to enjoy it!

And, since the time may be limited ---- lots of butter and salt!

[Nitram]

51. That's right. We only go round once in this life, and you've got to grab for all the gusto

you can get.

[DeminPennswoods]

38. Naveed Jamali in AMJoy

asked what if Page was actually a double agent working for the FBI to gather intelligence. It seems a little far-fetched to me, but you never know.

[bigtree]

43. I'm sure that was a lot of viewers' next thought

...Page is either the fool Russians described in intercepts, or playing a clever game.

He certainly looks like both.

[dawg day]

52. Where was the tap placed?

I remember there was at least one on some Russkis in Trump Tower- Trump's habit of selling to Russians biting back.

[Deb]

54. This is it. This is why my gut says don't touch it.

Thanks for posting.