i don't think we fully appreciate the power of foxnews.
it's hard to imagine the point of view of the foxnews audience, because whenever we hear even a snippet, it's so ridiculously obvious to us how much they lie, how much they make us, how completely biased they are.
we like to think they simply get their talking points and their uncritically convinced. which is largely the case, but it's not quite that simple.
i've spent enough time talking with right-wingers to know that they are completely and utterly convinced not only that they are right and we are wrong, but in fact they are also convinced that:
- they are far better informed than us
- they use critical analysis skills to assess and evaluate their information
- they get their information from multiple sources
- we are uninformed
- we are sheeple
- we are the ones blindly reciting talking points
they feel this way because they hear their side from multiple programs on foxnew *and* hate radio *and* republican politicians *and* social media.
it's very convincing when you hear something from multiple sources and don't realize how deliberately coordinated those views are.
right now i'm not feeling very encouraged about america finding a way out of this mess.
it's hard enough to figure out how to survive donnie's reign of error.
but even if we're successful, even if he resigns in disgrace, we'll cheer as if we've accomplished something enduring, only to find the foxnews audience goes on and they will coalesce around the next tyrant, who no doubt will be far more capable than donnie.
this is true even if we win the house and the senate. that will be great, but donnie won't sign anything, and neither will his republican replacement be (and please don't try to suggest that pelosi can become president if donnie and pence are both removed. they would never be removed at the same time and some other republican would become president after being nominated and confirmed as vice president in the interim).
we're not likely to do anything about russian interference, at least we're not likely to fix our voting systems by 2018, probably not even 2020, so it's hard to envision us sweeping the elections in 2020. even still, republicans will filibuster and foxnews will gin up fake scandals galore.
i know i'm getting ahead of ourselves, we have to fight donnie first.
but it's been and will continue to be a long, long battle.
I would encourage people to do some recon and watch bits and pieces of their shows to get a window into the alternate universe that tens of millions of Americans inhabit.
They are a cancer, and they literally destroy everything they touch. We need a serious dose of chemotherapy to combat this shit.
the government can't do much because of the first amendment.
ideally the other outlets would start treating foxnews like the joke they are.
i mean, the national enquirer has always run news stories like "elvis is pregnant with michael jackson's alien baby!"
and the rest of the news world simply completely ignored that crap.
they should do the same with foxnews, rather than picking up their baseless allegations and lies.
or they should run stories *slamming* them for running baseless allegations and lies.
but no, the rest of the media lets foxnews set the agenda and they spread the disease.
how can we even convince the rest of the media to isolate foxnews??
Time to stand up to the bullies who spew lies and call them on it. It would, however, take a concerted effort by all in the MSM, and that would be nigh on impossible.
Last edited Sat Feb 10, 2018, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1)
can't be underestimated. Many people seem to disregard the scope and power of free Fox TV and its Radio stations owned by News Corp, as well as prolific HATE RADIO over the last 30 years now dominant more than ever all over the US.
What to do about it, including internet sources is a topic of much discussion, especially here. There's the freedom of speech issue, the Sherman Anti Trust Act (anti monopoly) disregarded for years since Reagan, people who are mainly readers that seem unfamiliar or unconcerned with Fox's reach and demographics, and other issues.
The FCC position is fairly clear with current heads like Ajit Pai, and for most of the last 20 years, except Obama's FCC Chair Tom Wheeler who preserved Net Neutrality.
Deregulation, dilution and sensationalism of the US news media in all formats has been caused by many factors. In the 1970s Roger Ailes approached Nixon about starting 'GOP TV.' The chief claimed there wasn't any money, but Ailes made it happen with Fox in the mid-90s.
The 1996 Telecomm Act was a major effort that lifted existing media ownership regulations and limits on how many news papers, stations and publications any one company or corporation could own, and media consolidation soon began.
In the 80s, RUSH had started on RADIO when the Fairness Doctrine, est. 1949 for balanced viewpoint news on public airwaves (Radio, TV) was overturned in 1987 under Reagan.
US media has now consolidated into 4-5 giant conglomerates controlling 90% of all we read, hear and see. A real pickle!
*Feb. 6, 18: FOX Media, lengthy OP but well worth it-ideas, issues & suggestions for dealing with or diminishing it.
*Jan. 2, 18: New Streaming Network Launching for Liberals
side. I don't know if the field can ever be leveled.
We need a new leaders with some good old common sense, and the intelligence of Tip O'Neil. Letting the GOP run circles around us, like with the ultimate placement of Gorsich on the supreme court was dumb.
Last edited Sun Feb 11, 2018, 09:56 AM - Edit history (2)
It's been like that since he took over and it's not going to stop.
This constant parade of blatant lies, Putin asskissers, wife beaters, white supremacists, alternate factors, sexual predators and bills opening up the treasury to the rich will wake some of the trump voters upwe just need to pick off a small percentage of them and I'm thinking it's going to come from the 53% of white women voters who voted for him.
Some of them have to be disgusted with the continual flow of scummy staffers and the anti-women actions coming out of the white house.
Remember, Hillary actually won the election, we don't need to convince all of them, just the ones with a semblance of a conscience.
We've already seen that happen in Virginia, Alabama, Jersey and other off-year elections.
History will show that Fox News has done more to damage our country than any politician. Deliberate and despicable.
and in fact foxnews officially agrees with that.
i seem to recall some court filing where they deemed themselves to be entertainment rather than news.
Jun 14, 2017 - Fox News is dropping its famous slogan Fair and Balanced in an effort distance itself from workplace scandals that have plagued the network in recent years, New York magazine reports.
It just seems that way. Rachel's rating are ahead of FOX, now that Bill O'Reilly has left. The entire network has shrunk in importance, in my opinion. But, there is always another wealthy conservative ready to pick up the microphones.
Last edited Sun Feb 11, 2018, 07:12 PM - Edit history (1)
And he took over for O'Reilly.
The power of Fox news cannot be overstated.
but when John Kerry was running for potus, he said he was gonna get rid of Fox News....sigh..
I read in Rolling Stone over a year ago an interview with Obama and he said we have to get Fux Ruse out of all the bars and other TV sets in the country but he never said how. I have, and about every DUer out there, asked HOW???!!! but it seems it can't be done due to some BS rules. How do we stop or change these BS rules?
And really, as frustrating as that is to those of us in the reality-based community, it suddenly makes a lot more sense to me about how they can feel as sure about their nonsense as they do. No wonder!
Thanks for pointing that out. It makes me a little less contemptuous of them, actually, but far more contemptuous of ALL the media outlets that lie for profit, not just Fox.
If only there were an easy path back to where this country was before the 2016 elections and some magic elixir that would make the scales drop from the eyes of the brainwashed. I like so many others, take solace in cynicism, which is also dangerous. I used to wear my heart on my sleeve, but now I keep it safe inside my chest and wear my cynicism on my sleeve. It's easier to access there.
One good thing, their core viewers are dying faster then they are recruiting new viewers.
Right now all I can do is refuse to take part in their war. I will not watch that poo poo. I don't bother engaging rethugs. In mix company I will call the lies out but once they go alt right bat shit crazy on me I leave. They are too busy yelling they usually don't even notice.
I have faith in our youth. Yeah there will always be that percentage that are racist/bigot/bat shit crazy, but the majority are normal.
I do try to sway the sway-able to anything but fake news and the hate stuff.
So we fight on.
but then, south africa was ruled by a white minority for a very long time....
Wait that's not how that line goes. What ever.
But that's what I said when W was installed, "Damn I picked a bad time to stop drinking." Nuts right? But what's that saying, "that which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger." No really I got sober Dec. 7, 2000. Oddly, I am still sober.
But we would need to go back a little earlier then 2000. The wing nuts were already there spewing their hate. We would have to go back to 1980. Carter got screwed!. But the movie where that botched attempt to steal a quote from, came out about then.
But this dude, the orange don from hell, is the worst! If there was a lower grade then F he would earn that, a G. Like not even a zero. Like -30.
I just keep saying this thing I learned about 18 years ago, after the booze was out of my system, so I could remember it. I would look at the TV, and W would be there doing his dumb smirk. I would repeat, "this to shall pass, this to shall pass." It did, and we had 8 wonderful years with Obama. And now we got this orange thing. Just when you think it can't get any worse.... it does.
This to shall pass. That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger. (Expect poison and bullets, they will kill me.) repeat.
Also, I hear people say God can move mountains it's so powerful. But if you want to see the miracle, you will need to bring a shovel. So I joined the Resistance and my protest sign is my shovel.
how much of a threat is embodied in the lies conservative media tell.
I sometimes worry as much about Fox and their compatriots as I do about Trump. Sometime more, since they have been so enabling of Trump & his supporters.
What they conservative media have done is not just create an echo chamber, but inoculate themselves, their viewers and all Republicans against the truth. Their consumers all believe that Democrats lie, all the time. Can never be trusted. That all the MSM are liberal (and therefore can't be believed or trusted).
So if their audience has NO OTHER SOURCE of information they would ever find credible, it's a completely closed system.
ONE conservative that I know of -- just one, has identified the problem and is concerned about it. He used to be a conservative talk show host. Nowadays you can see him occasionally on MSNBC. Don't know if he has a podcast or anything, but I don't think he's got a radio show anymore. Anyway, here are two extended quotes from him which I think are especially enlightening:
What they dont know is how to effectively counter it.
This is my biggest fear. When you can program and control a large block of peoples minds.
what is the recourse? I realize many are older and those will pass but whats the solution?
black president only because George W. Bush was so bad and so unpopular. If Bush had been on 50 percent approval, Obama would not have had a chance. So Obama was a reaction to W., even though that overlooks what a great man Obama is. Trump was a reaction to Obama. Had there not been a black president, then all those angry racists wouldn't have come out of the woodwork to elect Trump, who let's face it is a white supremacist and would never been elected under any other circumstance.
So it swings one way and the other. It is going to swing away from Trump. Fox News has a lot of power, but it cannot stop a tsunami that will sweep away the Republican Party when the time comes. There will come a time when half the people who voted Trump will be too ashamed to admit it. There will come a time when half the Fox News viewers will realize that they have been duped. It is already starting to happen.
They both have Master's degrees. My sister taught AP Biology and Chemistry, and my brother-in-law teaches gifted education. However, they continue to stand by Trump. When we had a "discussion" about watching only Fox News, they said they watch "Meet the Press" on Sundays, so they hear the other side. I don't watch "Meet the Press on Sundays, but it seemed like only Republicans were on before the election. My sister is very pro-environment and loves nature and animals, but spouts the Republican mantra about less regulations. It is so frustrating knowing that my only sibling and her husband are so well-educated but so brainwashed.
The so-called moderators are so obviously biased. Softball setup questions to allow republicans to spout their favorite talking points, and accusations to make democrats respond to the latest fake scandal.
Though he was better than most today.
Of course we know Murrow is spinning in his grave.
Make them put up or shut up on watching something other than fox.
DU Mail me if you would buy - might be hard to arrange but I can see
My favorite is:
Rich people paying rich people
to tell middle class people
to blame poor people
It largely originated in white evangelical and Southern churches in the 1970s. The foundation of this mentality is that fundamentalist Bible-believers are correct about everything, in and out of politics, and anyone or anything that believes otherwise are communists, or influenced by communists, "cultural Marxists," atheistic Jews, ivory tower elitists, etc. "Liberal" is equated with "communist." So if you propose a state-run health care system, for example, they have a quote from Marx or Lenin ready in support of such an idea, and a quote from a Reagan or Goldwater type about how awful and dangerous "socialistic" healthcare is.
They are deeply skeptical people. But they direct all their skepticism toward reality-based ideas, facts, statistics, proposals, and solutions. They are skeptical of science, medicine, clinical research, etc., but entirely non-skeptical toward miracles, supernaturalism, religion, etc. Once that type of thinking is inculcated, they have no more real critical thinking skills. It all originates in the church.
or do they just have a few million people generating a ton of internet noise?
Fox News is available to be watched in 97.4 million households. On a typical night a FOX prime-time program attracts 3 to 4 million viewers. Not exactly a juggernaut.
How much of FOX's perceived "power" comes from the fact that left-leaning sites constantly report on the goings-on at that idiotic network?
I remember being sick and tired of it in the 90's...
obnoxious as hell, and stupid besides.
liberals like me avoid such places as much as possible.
and is instrumental in destroying American Democracy. Combined with propaganda pushers from Russia and fakebook, the Dems.have an uphill battle getting their candidates elected. We will overcome the fox scourge and eventually put these vermin out of business.
... they win because the remaining media (print, electronic, and social) cant resist letting FOX set the agenda for their own reporting. For some reason, they just go along to get along.
There are a host of reasons for this phenomenon. At present, the GOP controls all congressional committees and can gin up all manner of scandals (think: Benghazi), which the media somehow feels compelled to report breathlessly as news.
Then, theres our runaway experiment in social media, which was quickly and thoroughly commandeered by the Red Menace with an occupation army of click farms and troll factories. Meanwhile, the Silicon Valley Dandys at Facebook, Google, and Twitter, who we mortals assumed would protect the integrity of those forums, were too busy monetizing those clicks and trolls to protect their own sorry arses, let alone protect we the people from a tsunami of USDA Choice Bullshit leading up to election day.
Finally, and saddest of all, it was CNN, MSNBC and the mainstream electronic media that awarded TRump several Billions of free campaign media, and normalized Trump on the national stage. Fox News sold Trump to the 25% of diehard middle Americans who are the Fox viewing audience. The Corporate Idiots in the MSM did the rest.
The OP makes a good point about the inherent dangers to the RW media apparatus in this country, but FOX News will not be our undoing.
As Lincoln mused in 1864 when someone expressed doubts about a Northern victory, ... there was always just enough virtue in this republic to save it; sometimes none to spare, but still enough to meet the emergency.
similarly, while i find donnie as annoying as the rest of us do, i reserve my true contempt for the republicans around him who insist the sun shines out of his butt and rationalize anything and everything he does as fine, just so long as they get their tax cut.
you're absolutely correct, foxnews wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if the rest of the media treated it more like the national enquirer -- a joke.
They create the news and everyone else constantly plays defense to "fight them off".
and hence their bullshit stays front and center while the truth becomes a distant echo.
Been talking about it for years.. the suckers are true believers.
They let fux think for them.. and they lie their freaking heads off
that. Fox reports and CNN and MSNBC pile on.
amazed how in such a short time, Fox So Called News has become so mainstream. There were a series of showings coordinated by Dem groups at homes and libraries followed by telephone discussion. Unfortunately as shocked and dismayed as we all were - no really coordinated effort was made to counter the fake news this propaganda machine was spewing. I dont think anyone expected what happened. But the Republicans have always been so much better than Democrats at long term planning. Its why Rs focused on winning state houses and local governments while Ds focused on federal seats. And now we are reaping the results.
Outfoxed should have been a wake up call. And now we have a 24 hour propaganda machine for the Republican Party. Im not sure what the answer is. I hope Democratic leadership is figuring it out.
We're not getting out of this mess until FoxNews, right-wing propaganda outlets, and other for-profit news sources, controlled by just a few corporations (basically all of the mainstream media), are left unchecked.
It MUST MUST MUST be addressed.