Honest question, and a hard one, short of banning guns and collecting them.....

[USALiberal]

how do we stop a lone wacko mass murderer?

Even if we banned AR15's, there are normal hunting rifles that can kill as easily.

Most of these mass shooters legally obtained their weapons. So background checks would not stop all of them.

Is there an solution short of repealing the 2nd amendment?

[Phoenix61]

1. As others have mentioned it's about the size

of the magazine. Chris Rock talked about not needing gun control but about needing bullet control. If you charge $5,000 a bullet this shit will come to a screeching ass halt. It's harder for me to buy Sudafed then buy ammo. Maybe that's where we need to focus our efforts. There's nothing in the constitution that says anything about our right to buy ammo. Just a thought.

[Freelancer]

26. It doesn't take much tech to make a bullet -- or smarts.

Unless you make the materials illegal to purchase.

...Just saying

[BigmanPigman]

2. There are many things that need to be done.

It isn't one or another. The 2nd amend itself can be amended too. A lot of it has to do with the attitude of the American citizen and the American male specifically. 99% of gun violence is done by men. Mental health, easy access, affordability, the family's attitude, etc all contribute. The NRA and other groups with BIG $$$ (like Putin and the Religious Right) influence the lawmakers with massive, long term donations to campaigns.
https://www.vox.com/cards/gun-violence-facts/guns-domestic-violence-united-states-risk

[USALiberal]

6. I agree with the lack of mental health help.....

it is more of WHY they want to kill than how to me.

I hope 2/3 of the states would vote to amend the 2nd. But country is so red.

[Drahthaardogs]

3. Ban on any magazine holding over five rounds on long guns

And ten on hand guns would be a good start

[USALiberal]

12. Collecting the current magazines would be illegal I assume. Not sure. nt

[Kaleva]

33. I had suggested before the banning of newly manufactured and imported magazines

that hold or that can be easily modified to hold more then a certain amount. Those magazines currently in private ownership would remain legal but would greatly go up in price and become more rare as time goes on as magazines do wear out.

[Fred Sanders]

4. Come on, there are all kinds of models of gun control. Canada, Australia, all of Europe.

Stopping MOST mass shootings is a goal also.

[USALiberal]

8. We have a 2nd, they do not.....

and we show no signs of the will to change the 2nd.

Gun nuts would revolt before turning in their guns.

[Fred Sanders]

16. The 2nd has been written and interpreted by people. It can be reinterpreted for the 21st century

for 17 good reasons just today! By people and the will of the people.

All is needed is will. And the end of the NRA.

[hfojvt]

25. "all" that is needed is will

Yes, and if you pray hard enough, you can make water run uphill.
All you have to do is pray hard enough to make water run uphill.

Pretty clear that the will is not there, and things like today can happen once a month and the will is still not gonna be there - because that has already happened.

[TheFrenchRazor]

31. that is true, but demand is a reality that can not be ignored; just like the War on Drugs;

drugs are illegal, but the demand for them is so high that it is next to impossible to stop the supply.

[Fred Sanders]

34. Demand and will reunited Germany. Gun control is peanuts compared to that. One example.

It is the "I give up" folks that make it difficult. Germans never gave up.

[tblue37]

22. IMHO they are already revolting. nt

[uponit7771]

39. 2nd amendment does not guarantee the right to own WMDs

[Sancho]

5. Start here...it would make it much harder...

People Control, Not Gun Control

This is my generic response to gun threads where people are shot and killed by the dumb or criminal possession of guns. For the record, I grew up in the South and on military bases. I was taught about firearms as a child, and I grew up hunting, was a member of the NRA, and I still own guns. In the 70’s, I dropped out of the NRA because they become more radical and less interested in safety and training. Some personal experiences where people I know were involved in shootings caused me to realize that anyone could obtain and posses a gun no matter how illogical it was for them to have a gun. Also, easy access to more powerful guns, guns in the hands of children, and guns that weren’t secured are out of control in our society. As such, here’s what I now think ought to be the requirements to possess a gun. I’m not debating the legal language, I just think it’s the reasonable way to stop the shootings. Notice, none of this restricts the type of guns sold. This is aimed at the people who shoot others, because it’s clear that they should never have had a gun.

1.) Anyone in possession of a gun (whether they own it or not) should have a regularly renewed license. If you want to call it a permit, certificate, or something else that's fine.
2.) To get a license, you should have a background check, and be examined by a professional for emotional and mental stability appropriate for gun possession. It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc. This check is not to subject you to a mental health diagnosis, just check on your superficial and apparent gun-worthyness.
3.) To get the license, you should be required to take a safety course and pass a test appropriate to the type of gun you want to use.
4.) To get a license, you should be over 21. Under 21, you could only use a gun under direct supervision of a licensed person and after obtaining a learner’s license. Your license might be restricted if you have children or criminals or other unsafe people living in your home. (If you want to argue 18 or 25 or some other age, fine. 21 makes sense to me.)
5.) If you possess a gun, you would have to carry a liability insurance policy specifically for gun ownership - and likely you would have to provide proof of appropriate storage, security, and whatever statistical reasons that emerge that would drive the costs and ability to get insurance.
6.) You could not purchase a gun or ammunition without a license, and purchases would have a waiting period.
7.) If you possess a gun without a license, you go to jail, the gun is impounded, and a judge will have to let you go (just like a DUI).
8.) No one should carry an unsecured gun (except in a locked case, unloaded) when outside of home. Guns should be secure when transporting to a shooting event without demonstrating a special need. Their license should indicate training and special carry circumstances beyond recreational shooting (security guard, etc.). If you are carrying your gun while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you lose your gun and license.
9.) If you buy, sell, give away, or inherit a gun, your license information should be recorded.
10.) If you accidentally discharge your gun, commit a crime, get referred by a mental health professional, are served a restraining order, etc., you should lose your license and guns until reinstated by a serious relicensing process.

Most of you know that a license is no big deal. Besides a driver’s license you need a license to fish, operate a boat, or many other activities. I realize these differ by state, but that is not a reason to let anyone without a bit of sense pack a semiautomatic weapon in public, on the roads, and in schools. I think we need to make it much harder for some people to have guns.

For those who want to argue legality, please reference: The Second Amendment: A Biography by Michael Waldman

[USALiberal]

10. Nice post! Thank you for the details. I 100% agree with tracking owners also!! nt

[Sophia4]

15. Great ideas. I'm glad you differentiate between mental illnesses of all kinds and those

specific conditions that make a person unfit to handle guns and other similar weapons.

I would like to elaborate on this point that you make:

"It might be appropriate to require that examination to be accompanied by references from family, friends, employers, etc."

I would, especially, definitely, and in particular emphasize that ex-spouses, ex-wives and ex-husbands as well as ex-significant others should be asked for input as to the capacity of a person to handle a gun safely, maturely.

Nothing wrong with hunting. My mother used to have as many as five deer in just her backyard in a small town in the Midwest. She didn't have a gun or hunt, but it's understandable that many people in the Midwest hunt.

[Sancho]

23. If you have to do a vision test at the DMV to get a driver's license...

the DMV doesn't "diagnose" problems...but they can send you to get a correction before you get the license.

If there are danger signs for gun ownership, it's the person seeking the license who has to get appropriately cleared.

[YessirAtsaFact]

45. Thanks for sharing- very reasonable approach

I really like restrictions on carrying guns, especially in public places.

I don’t know if that would have stopped the Florida shooter.

Hopefully he would not have had access to firearms.

[Sophia4]

7. Annual psychological reviews on gun owners.

The military would never allow these crazy lone killers to handle guns in their ranks.

They'd have them out on medical discharges as soon as the craziness, the threats and recklessness were obvious.

Why should we in the rest of society be surrounded by gun owners who are violent.

Note that I am not saying that anyone who has a mental illness is dangerous, but I think our society is sophisticated enough to be able to identify those who are dangerous. The miitary does, I believe. They impose discipline on those who defend our country by carrying guns.

[sfwriter]

9. Well, banning guns and collecting them...

...sounds better every year.

Those responsible gun owners are not 100% of the population. If they were, we wouldn't be here. So now lets revisit responsibility. Is it responsible to let thousands die every year in support of those good gun owners? Looks like the reduction in firearms restrictions has not reduced violence; the promise of a well-armed society being a safe one is hollow. I'm all for reversing it. The NRA has convinced me to abandon my previous positions. Their total capture by the firearms industry has made them a dangerous, bloody joke. The 2nd amendment needs to be revisited or reinterpreted to stress the "well ordered" part.

I'm really not seeing any upside to firearms ownership any more. I sold my last gun in 2012. I'm done, I'm out.

Now I'm just waiting for someone with the balls to take a political stand on this issue.

[Squinch]

11. It seems that the average gun owner of today is a world different from the average

gun owner of yesterday.

The average gun owner of yesterday had one or two guns used for hunting or sport shooting.

The average gun owner of today owns an arsenal. He (because it's mostly men) bought most of his guns because he was sure them damn libruls were going to take all the guns away and he needed to be able to kill them when they came to do it.

Once they installed a fascist in the white house, they stopped feeling like they had to kill their fellow citizens with bullets - there are so many more methods available to them now, like starving them and leaving them to die when they are sick - so they stopped buying guns. The gun companies are going bankrupt. The "glamor" of stamping their feet and acting like defiant three year olds seems to have worn off.

The solution seems to be to convince them that the damn libruls don't give a shit whether they have guns or not. If we can somehow convince them of that, I suspect they will lose interest in their guns as they go searching for the next thing that makes them odious to the majority of Americans, so they can embrace that thing as if their lives depended on it.

[USALiberal]

14. So true, so different now. And the NRA scares the shit out of their idiotic members. nt

[Squinch]

18. No they don't scare them. They give them cover to express their desire to kill the uppity people

that they used to have dominion over.

[Drahthaardogs]

19. Most guys that really hunt are still like that.

It's the nutters that are a problem.

[BigmanPigman]

21. And the average gun owner 250 years ago when the

2nd amend was written had a pea shooter compared to these hand held cannons. And the reason for guns back then was for protection against the British, the national enemy. Rifles were used for hunting before there were local supermarkets and freezers in everyone's home. Any argument to have a gun now is falling on my deaf ears. I was a teacher and I did not relish having "routine" active shooter drills with my 6 year old students before I read them a story as part of my daily schedule. I did not become a teacher to do that!

[moondust]

13. Requiring a "need to own"?

Not just some general/imagined threat but something specific like living too far from law enforcement protection, real threats to livestock, etc.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. There is no solution short of melting the motherfuckers to slag.

I piss off a lot of people, including more than a few DUers, but that's how I see it.

If the Aussies can do, so can we.

[Squinch]

20. Let me add to my above answer: really want to ban guns? Have every black man in the country

register to buy a gun.

Guns will be banned within a week.

Not kidding.

[gibraltar72]

24. Anyone

who ever wore a MAGA hat would not be allowed to have a gun.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. Since these shootings are almost invariably done by white males,

let's just take guns away from white males.

[GaryCnf]

28. Small correction

A hunting rifle, say something like a Model 70, can certainly kill as easily, but it cannot kill as efficiently. When the discussion is limited to mass shootings, efficiency is the difference between one or two victims and 17.

Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of detachable magazines. Limit internal magazines to 4 rounds plus one in the chamber. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of speed loaders.

A start anyway.

[spanone]

29. austrailia 1996

In 1996, Australia passed the National Firearms Agreement after a mass shooting in Tasmania in April of that year. In that incident, a 28-year-old man, armed with a semi-automatic rifle, shot and killed 35 people, and injured 18 others, in what was known as the Port Arthur Massacre.

Under the 1996 law, Australia banned certain semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and imposed stricter licensing and registration requirements. It also instituted a mandatory buyback program for firearms banned by the 1996 law.

During the buyback program, Australians sold 640,000 prohibited firearms to the government, and voluntarily surrendered about 60,000 non-prohibited firearms. In all, more than 700,000 weapons were surrendered, according to a Library of Congress report on Australian gun policy. One study says that the program reduced the number of guns in private hands by 20 percent.

In 2002, Australia further tightened gun laws, restricting the caliber, barrel length and capacity for sport shooting handguns.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/

[marybourg]

30. Re-interpretating the 2nd amendment. Correctly this time. nt

[Kaleva]

32. Your second sentence isn't entirely correct

"Even if we banned AR15's, there are normal hunting rifles that can kill as easily. "

There's are reasons why shooters prefer guns such as the AR15 and AK47 over guns that fire the "normal" hunting cartridges such as .270 Winchester, the .280 Remington, the .308, the 7.62X54R, the .303, the 30-06 and so on.

If there were normal hunting rifles that could kill just as easily as the AR-15 or AK-47, then one would expect to see a wide variety of weapons used in these attacks but you don't.

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. "Normal hunting rifles" don't have 30-round magazines

My father hunted, when I was a kid, he used either a Remington 7400 or a BAR in .30-06, five round and four round magazines. There are no aftermarket 50- and 100-round magazines for "normal hunting rifles".

[wasupaloopa]

36. We cant stop all mass killings but we can reduce the number of them

That is the idea behind auto safety. We can’t stop all auto fatalities but we reduced the number of them.

The gun lobby says no law can stop all the gun violence as an obfuscation tactic.

[uponit7771]

38. +1

[uponit7771]

37. 1. Billboards with massive amount of non-whites with assault devices 2. Permits and licenses for WMD

... 3. must purchase insurance to own WMD assault style weapons

[Adrahil]

40. Havta start with magazines imo.

Won't happen, but that's the only way to go at this now, IMO.

[samir.g]

41. Ban the manufacture, import, and sale of new firearms, parts, and ammo

Then slowly erode the mountain of existing guns

[GReedDiamond]

42. Outlaw the ammunition...

...ammunition would be hyper-restricted.

[marlakay]

43. I still say walk through metal things at door

Then after school starts lock outside doors.

[pnwmom]

44. Make it HARDER to legally obtain weapons that can kill dozens of people in seconds. nt