White Nationalist group claims responsibility

[angrychair]

A neo-Nazi white nationalist group called Republic of Florida has claimed the Florida school shooter as a member. Facebook and Instagram have removed the shooter’s accounts which included him wearing MAGA gear and repeating trump statements.

Link to tweet

[FSogol]

1. Hope law enforcement goes and seizes their computers. n/t

[jberryhill]

4. For what?

None of this "why did he do it?" stuff in the wake of every mass shooting has any relation to the common factor of all of them.

For example, this business of "people knew he would do something like this, but nobody reported it" etc., is simply a basket of nonsense. Being a weirdo with a gun fetish is not illegal, and there is generally nothing that they've done which would result in physically isolating them from society.

It is not illegal to hate people, be a white supremacist, post photos and videos of gunplay, etc..

So maybe I'm just stupid, but what is the intended result of this notion of "reporting" people for engaging in the legal behavior of being an odious person in general?

[FSogol]

7. Murderer who trained with a paramilitary hate group isn't a reason to investigate whether

the group encouraged him to shoot students? We should take the group's word that they weren't involved? Aren't investigators pouring over the shooter's phone, computer, and social media accounts? If he has connection to that group, wouldn't you look there next?

[jberryhill]

9. What is illegal about training someone to shoot?

"If he has connection to that group, wouldn't you look there next?"

Look for what?

Yeah, sure, they are going over all of the shooter's communications. So, give me a hypothetical which provides probable cause that this "group" or any member of it did something illegal, sufficient to issue a search warrant, and let me know what you want to search for.

Here, I'll start...

Okay, so they find an email between him and someone in the group (however you want to define membership, as if they had dues or something), and in which someone says "Hey, you're good with a gun. You should think about shooting up your school sometime."

And... what of it? You think that's illegal?

Running around the woods in their playclothes with their guns, and talking about how much they want to provoke a racial shooting match, as these groups do - is not illegal.

Again, what gets me about these "report warning signs" and "nobody did anything with a mentally disturbed person" is that it seems there is a whole lot more interest in pre-emptively thinking about locking up potentially dangerous people - and the civil liberties issues that would entail - and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THE READY AVAILABILITY OF GUNS CAPABLE OF SUSTAINED REPEATING FIRE.

There's this fairy tale that people want to believe that goes, "Oh, if only we'd been more vigilant, suspicious, and more readily locked up people who engage in behavior we don't like, then this wouldn't have happened." It's pure nonsense.

[FSogol]

11. Ok, I repect your view. Let's say he detailed his plans to the group via email. Even that wouldn't

get them in trouble? What if someone in the group aided or encouraged him? Couldn't there be a Terry Nicholas-like character in this group with some direct involvement?

[jberryhill]

13. If I send you the plans of my crime

What legal obligation do you have?

Look, I’m all for giving this group a good looking at, but at the end of the day we have got to do something about the ready availability of weapons capable of sustained repeat fire.

As with every one of these things, we are going to go over timelines and armchair psychological theories, and everybody is going to pull out their favorite things to blame, yadda, yadda, yadda... when it really doesn’t matter what variety of f-d up in the head motivated this shooter or that shooter or the next shooter. Yeah, they’re all going to have some species of ideology or illness or what have you. What they all had was easy access to the tools for the job.

[FSogol]

17. I agree that removing access to guns is the key, but staying

With my illustration, how did Terry Nichols end up in jail?

[mythology]

21. Because Nichols was an active member of a conspiracy

He literally helped make the bomb in the truck.

[jberryhill]

23. Material aid

Hey, FSogol, go rob a bank.

Okay, I just told you to rob a bank. Now, if you go rob a bank tomorrow, what is it I have done?

If I provide you with the getaway car, knowing you intend to use it for that robbery of that bank, that is different from simply hoping you will rob a bank, or even encouraging you to rob a bank.

You can generally advocate for the commission of a crime, subject to narrow circumstances where there is imminent - in time and space - likelihood and objective expectation it will be done right then and there.

You can legally say, “I think all (fill in the blank) people should be shot, and I’d be happy if you shot them” at your rally. If some guy does just that a week later, you haven’t done anything illegal. If you had said “..and here’s a gun to do it” or knowingly drove the guy to the location to do it, that’s really different.

[FSogol]

33. Didnt this group supply him with a gun? N/t

[jberryhill]

35. Where did you see that?

[FSogol]

37. Heard it here yesterday, but see no actual reporting on it. According to huffpost, that group might

be backing off their claims of him as a member.

[FSogol]

36. Ok, I'll go rob one later this morning. Do you want progress updates or just keep it quiet like

before?

PS. Back when I was 14, I had a job washing dishes at a steak house. From the kitchen window, I could see the bank manager of the bank next door come outside every hour on the hour to smoke a cigarette. He'd prop the back door to the bank open and stand there. I always felt that it would have been a easy bank to rob. Just hide behind their a/c unit and when he came out, force him inside and clean them out.

[jberryhill]

38. Let me know how the bank robbery turns out

...and that's the thing. If someone told you that they were going to commit a crime, and you had some responsibility to report it, the safest bet would be to keep 911 on speed dial in order to report anyone you think might have suggested they would commit one.

But, okay, you're 14 and you tell me that, and I say, "You know, instead of going back inside with him, where you might get bogged down if someone trips a silent alarm, a better idea would be to walk past, shut the door so he can't go inside, and then force him at gunpoint into a car. Then, you take him somewhere and arrange a ransom drop for his release."

You work on that plan a little more, and then go ahead and execute the plan.

Have I committed a crime?

[FSogol]

39. LOL, Now you're encouraging kidnapping too? Lawyers!

[brush]

31. I'm sorry but I have to ask this. Are you purposely playing dense? Of course that group...

of gun humper, white separatists should be investigated. Someone in the group may have helped the shooter or even instructed or encouraged him.

That's as obvious a no-brainer as there is.

[FSogol]

34. I think he took offense with me saying "seize their computers" when I should have said investigate

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

thoroughly and seize their computers if required.

[brush]

40. You'd have go into their computers and that won't be done in their homes or offices so...

investigators would have to take them to their labs to do that.

In other words, SEIZE them.

[FSogol]

41. The authorities have the shooter's phone and computer. That'll show if there is a trail

that needs to be investigated further.

[brush]

42. Investigated further, right. Like who else is in their incubator for terror strikes.

Investigators should be all over their asses.

If they were Muslim, African Americans of other POCs homes and offices would've already been raided.

The San Bernadino shooter's home and his bother's and associates homes were searched.

[FSogol]

43. There is a double standard. n/t

[genxlib]

12. Sorry, I am not buying it

I will challenge your hypothetical with a hypothetical

What if this was a muslim shooter and a radical muslim group claimed him as a member.

You don't think the FBI would be crawling up their ass? You don't think there would be potential charges if training was provided?

When you say these things aren't illegal, you are right to a certain extent. But it crosses a line when plans become real. And those involved in assisting those plans are complicit. I absolutely think that some of you hypothetical emailers should be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime.

Hell, there was recently a girl charged for suggesting someone should kill themselves. You don't think they should be held accountable for suggesting shooting up a school. WTF

[jberryhill]

14. What assistance does this plan require?

Okay, here’s the plan - “I’m gonna take a gun to a school, pull the fire alarm, and shoot a bunch of people.”

That requires some sort of mastermind to work out?

[genxlib]

15. You can deflect all you want but it doesn't change the facts

The necessity of the help is immaterial as to whether they were involved and complicit.

And if they are giving weapons training as reported, then that would make him more proficient. Such as a better aim.

All things being equal, I would take my chances against someone who never had any training rather than someone who had an opportunity to practice. Even if they are yahoos, just the chance to get out and use the weapon makes someone more comfortable.

I hope the law harasses the shit out of them. And if they aided or encouraged him I hope they end up in jail

[jberryhill]

16. Deflect

Deflect?

The deflection which follows these events is to blame anything and everything to avoid doing something about guns.

Absent ready access to a lot of firepower, then crazy people, nazis, religious fanatics, or loons of all sorts would be considerably less dangerous.

[genxlib]

19. I don't disagree

I would outlaw them tomorrow if I could. Lacking that, they would be so regulated that virtually no one would be able to get them.

I still think that support from a hate group is worth investigating and punishing. The two are not mutually exclusive.

[maxrandb]

2. See

Facebook and Instagram can work rather quickly when they want to

[AlexSFCA]

3. trump allied group takes reaponsibility and proud of it

[brooklynite]

5. Please correct your headline...

Saying that the shooter was a member does NOT equate to "claiming responsiblity".

[angrychair]

8. I would disagree

I gave that some thought. If you as an “organization” are willing to claim a person like this as a member, a mass murderer of children, and not disavow them in the same breath than support and/or approval is clearly implied.

They are a white nationalist neo-Nazi hate group. Based on their statements and photos from them, such acts clearly appear to be the end game for them. Their own leader has been arrested for threatening acts of violence.

[jberryhill]

26. Can you explain this

Why does a bunch of nazis go to the ADL to specifically tell them this information?

[angrychair]

32. Not sure if ADL stated who they were

That said, the benefit is in the brag...they are a small and relatively unknown group, so it brings them attention. It may pan out to be just that, a brag but otherwise untrue. For that alone, we should crush their little circle-jerk and truly make them irrelevant.

[GusBob]

10. It's weird. They freely admitted he was a member

They went out of their way to describe his activities and participation with their group.

It seems to me as if they are proud of him and happy for the publicity

Edit to add: have yet to see them disavow his atrocities, as mentioned above

[jberryhill]

25. And they went to the ADL to tell them

Because white supremacists like to keep the ADL well-informed, and would never consider using the ADL for some kind of stunt.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. No, they didn't.

The ADL contacted them after they made the claim the shooter was a member of their group.

https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz

A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) told the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group.

On Wednesday, February 14, Cruz, 19, a former student at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, allegedly entered the school with an AR-15 and opened fire, killing at least 17 people and injuring 14 more. Cruz left the scene but was later captured by police and has been charged with premeditated murder.

After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.
....

[jberryhill]

44. The ADL followed up a "lead" posted on 4chan

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/the-hate-report-was-the-florida-school-shooting-suspect-alt-right/

There are some lessons we should all take away from this incident.

1. It’s often difficult for members of the media to get accurate information in the wake of a mass shooting. Refer to On The Media’s Breaking News Consumer’s Handbook every time there’s a mass shooting in the news. It’s crucial information for how to process what you’re reading.

2. Whenever you read about anything having to do with 4chan, remember the site’s users love nothing more than lying to outsiders for kicks.

3. Take all public statements from white supremacist leaders with a grain of salt. Many of these groups seek the spotlight to increase their profile. In a 2014 blog post, the Southern Poverty Law Center noted that Jereb was desperate for attention, begging the organization repeatedly to get mentioned on its list of hate groups.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. And yet...still not what you posted.

[jberryhill]

47. So?

I had read one of the versions of this story, did not note the order of who contacted whom, and you corrected that point. Yes, it is "still not what I posted" because I posted that yesterday before you pointed out that I had a misimpression about why this guy was talking to the ADL, because why this guy would be speaking to them at all struck me as odd.

Silly me for reading the ADL's own website when I saw the OP:

https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz

A spokesperson for the white supremacist group Republic of Florida (ROF) claimed to the Anti-Defamation League on Thursday, February 15, that Nikolas Cruz, the man charged with the previous day’s deadly shooting spree at a Parkland, Florida, high school, was associated with his group.

...

After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.

Now, apart from the newer "update" posted in that story, which is the one I read yesterday, it said, and still says, "After self-described ROF members claimed on the discussion forum 4chan that Cruz had also been a member, the Anti-Defamation League spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb." It really doesn't specify who called whom, and from the end of the sentence, it struck me as a person called them and "identified himself as Jordan Jereb" rather than something along the lines of "we sought out Jordan Jereb and spoke to him".

Today, the SPLC says that Jereb's been trying to get himself listed as a hate group proprietor on their website for some time. Since condemnation by the SPLC and ADL is a "badge of honor" with these people, it really didn't strike me as odd that I had read the ADL's ambiguous wording to mean that he called them. The way I had read what the ADL wrote is along the lines of Jereb having posted on 4chan and also having contacted the ADL because he wanted publicity.

By starting out with this guy "claimed to" the ADL... I took it as he contacted them to claim that. It also struck me as perhaps a twisted prank on someone's part to tell the ADL something and get the ADL to bring attention to them for whatever sick purpose the perpetrator had in mind.

But, you know what, it's still not going to be "what I posted". It's going to remain "what I posted" even after having realized that the ADL's "after this, then that" sentence didn't mean what I had first interpreted it to mean.

Oh well.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. So?

You stated something incorrectly. I corrected it. Why your need to make excuses? I wasn't nasty about it, I simply pointed out the error.

[IluvPitties]

6. Steve Miller? Bannon? Trump?

Got anything to say?

[spanone]

18. what makes them different from ISIS?

[mythology]

22. Mostly just the number of adherents and organizational skills in my opinion.

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. What's the deal, I just saw this

I hear the idiot supremacist leader may have got Cruz confused with the wrong guy? Someone is trolling a national tragedy I think.

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

[jberryhill]

24. Heres what I dont get

This guy contacted the ADL - a group they despise - to tell them this?

Why?

[Behind the Aegis]

30. The ADL made contact, not the other way around. n/t

[jberryhill]

48. Yes, it seems that has been clarified relative to what I had read yesterday

[Beakybird]

27. I DON'T LIKE MISLEADING HEADLINES

People will trust you when you consistently tell the truth.

The truth is, the shooter probably did some training with a white nationalist group. He might have been a member. More facts need to come out, and they probably will.

The group never claimed responsibility.

[greyl]

28. SPLC says no confirmation shooter linked to white nationalist hate group.

SPLC Statement on Florida School Shooter's Reported Membership in a White Nationalist Hate Group

Jordan Jereb, the leader of the Republic of Florida Militia (ROF), a white nationalist hate group that we have been monitoring, earlier today claimed that Nikolas Cruz, the suspect in the massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, is a member of his group.

Hours after claiming a connection to Cruz, Jereb said he had been misunderstood.

On its website, the ROF describes itself as "a white civil rights organization fighting for white Identitarian politics, And [sic] the ultimate creation of a white ethnostate so we can be free from anti-white policies and have policies that reflect our values as white westerners. The ROF Militia is the armed forces of the Republic Of Florida."

Jereb initially claimed that Cruz was a member, that he had participated in one or more ROF training exercises in the Tallahassee area, and that he carpooled with other members from South Florida. Though the link was reported by several news organizations, the SPLC has not confirmed it.

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/02/15/splc-statement-florida-school-shooters-reported-membership-white-nationalist-hate-group


But he does definitely have links to imported MAGA hats.

[Initech]

45. Fake news!

Link to tweet

Fuck 4Chan!