When a machine that does exactly what it was designed to do, we should not be surprised.

[Binkie The Clown]

Guns are killing machines, designed for one purpose and one purpose only, to kill.

Instead of being shocked that they do what they were built to do, why not eliminate them entirely?

Gun nuts own guns for one reason, their desire to wield the power to kill. Mostly they only desire to kill defenseless animals, but sometimes it's us they want to kill. Why put up with that kind of mental aberration? People who enjoy killing, even if it's "only" killing animals, are suffering from a mental illness.

[guillaumeb]

1. I wrote this in 2016:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/126211339

I argued about the essential and designed purpose of a gun.

[Binkie The Clown]

2. Yup. You got that right! nt

[Marengo]

3. Are hunters mentally ill?

[RandomAccess]

5. No - see this post

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10237681

[Binkie The Clown]

7. Are people who get a kick out of killing, mentally ill? My opinion is YES.

Killing for the sake of killing is just twisted, sick, and evil.
And no, I don't eat meat, nor is meat necessary for human health and well being.

[Marengo]

20. Excluding trophy hunters, and I agree on that point, what about those who hunt as a supplement?

[Binkie The Clown]

21. Do they really NEED the meat? Or is that just an excuse?

I've known many people with freezers stocked with self-hunted venison. Not one of them actually needed that meat. Every one of them could easily have afforded to go to the store and buy meat. But it gave them cover for their sick need to kill something.

Of course they'd be better off to skip meat entirely. Vegans live longer than meat eaters, and are healthier in general.

[Marengo]

22. Is consuming meat killed by someone else morally superior? I hunt, not every year but am likely...

To do so this season. It certainly helps with the expenses and my family loves venison. I find the experience rewarding in the sense of having the ability and skill to harvest from nature directly. I grew up in a poor community in rural ohio, and we were better off than not for supplementing with wild game.

[Binkie The Clown]

23. You find it rewarding to kill. Hmmmm.

And, no, eating meat killed by someone else is not morally superior. It just gives people a way to sidestep any feeling of responsibility for the taking of life. That's another reason why I'm a vegan. There's no need to kill in order to survive.

[Marengo]

27. Id like for you to explain that response. Dont dodge or deflect, you know what Im asking.

[Binkie The Clown]

29. The explanation is simple. I believe it's wrong to kill another living being. You don't.

I think we just need to agree to disagree because we are never going to see eye to eye on this subject.

[Marengo]

30. As I expected, you dodged. You are right, we will never agree.

[RandomAccess]

4. I've always hated guns

Wouldn't have anything to do with them whatsoever. Feared them, and didn't fear anything external to me enough to think a gun was a good idea. Or necessary.

Then we moved to the country on 20 acres spread out from any neighbors, with a couple of dogs. I still didn't like guns but I began to see their utility if not their necessity. I even came to own one myself and learned to shoot it (sorta).

I've always hated killing anything, even wasps and spiders, but you find a couple of copperheads lolling about in your garage and sunning themselves not far from the backdoor, and one gets both your dogs in the jaw, necessitating a quick trip to the vet, you begin to think you want a permanent -- and quick -- solution to the problem.

Then there are your neighbors. Decent folks, even if we probably would never agree on anything having to do with politics or religion. And they hunt. Not just to kill things, but for food. It's not a terrible thing given the fact that the deer are a little overpopulating the area and eating the daylights out of my garden every time I try to have one. They loved the daylilies and hostas so much they pretty much ruined them. I don't love hunting, certainly don't love killing deer, but it happens and pretty much needs to.

So I could see that while I didn't love guns, they had their place in the scheme of things. Not assault rifles, of course, but other more traditional types.

The main thing I came to realize is that we will NEVER, ever get a good part of our population to part with their guns. Never. And we shouldn't even try, IMO, since it's so much a part of the rural culture (in most places), and is fruitless on our part and ultimately disrespectful to them as well.

And let's face it, THEIR guns aren't the ones being used to kill kids in schools.

[hack89]

6. So what percentage of gun owners are gun "nuts"? Nt

[Retrotech]

8. Somewhere between 75-90%, I'd wager.

[GP6971]

10. Do you have a link? n/t

[Retrotech]

11. To my wager?

[GP6971]

12. I was

just wondering what source you're basing your wager on.

[Binkie The Clown]

9. 100%. nt

[hack89]

13. Then your OP is laughable

But I am sure it made you feel all tingly and morally superior.

[Binkie The Clown]

14. If thinking that I'm morally superior to killers, then I plead guilty. nt

[hack89]

15. In 35 years of gun ownership I have never harmed a living thing.

Just a lot of range time poking holes in paper targets. Am I a killer?

[Binkie The Clown]

16. If you don't kill things, why do you own a killing machine?

I know you will never agree with me, so let's just leave it at that.

[hack89]

17. Because I really like competitive target shooting.

So I guess my guns are defective, having never shoot a living thing.

[LanternWaste]

24. Most ironic that you mention tingly and superior given your consistent narrative and its formats.

Most ironic that you mention tingly and superior given your own consistent narrative and its formats.

Laughable, Indeed Part II, Revenge of the Giggles.

[hack89]

25. I have never broadbrush smeared people that disagree with me.

unlike the poster I was replying to.

[mythology]

18. That's not exactly true

Guns are designed to propel a projectile at a high rate of speed. Yes, far too many are irresponsible in how they use guns, but much like a car can be used to run people over or hold a lot of explosives and blow up a building, that's not their only use. A gun is a tool, one that is far too frequently used in a destructive manner, but it's just that a tool.

There are a lot of common sense things we could do to make guns safer. Biometric locks, reducing magazine size, reducing firing rate, requiring regular tests like for driving (I think both should be done far more frequently than we require drivers to take driving tests), but also things like improved mental health services and such.

[Binkie The Clown]

19. Guns are an improved version of the crossbow which is an improved version of the bow which...

...was invented for the sole purpose of killing people and/or animals.

Calling a "tool" is disingenuous. You say it was designed to propel a projectile. To what end? Just to watch the projectile fly by? Don't be ridiculous. The flying projectile serves no purpose until is smashes violently into something. The purpose of flying projectiles at that speed is to severely damage whatever that projectile comes into contact with. How else can it be used other than to cause damage destruction to things, including flesh?

I would agree that a knife is a tool. How would I slice onions or open a box without such a sharp implement?

I would agree that a club (in its many forms) is a tool, especially in the hands of a sculptor or carpenter.

But a gun can only do one thing, cause severe damage to whatever it is pointed at.

A car has a main purpose other than killing. Sometimes it kills, and that is unfortunate, but a car was not invented for the sole purpose of killing. A gun was.

[LanternWaste]

26. I pretend the M1A1 Bazooka was just a tool as well

I pretend the M1A1 Bazooka was just a tool as well, rather than a weapon designed to destroy armored vehicles and defensive positions.

We may also lament that it was used too often for violent purposes rather than...

[loyalsister]

28. when a culture permits and even endorses what it is designed to do shou make it even less surprising

Our self defense laws have shifted to enable aggressive killing under the guise of self defense. When "reasonable fear" with no duty to retreat is considered self defense there is room for interpretation that provides for acceptance of aggressive killing. Combine that with a right to own instruments explicitly designed for that purpose, and the inescapable conclusion is that there exists a right to kill people. "Reasonable fear" of..... the burglar in your house, the black man who knocks on the wrong door, kids on the lawn, getting fired, bullies at school???
A reaction of fear that escalates to rage may be understandable- but making it easy to act on it in the most extreme way possible? Our legal and cultural acceptance of delivering vengeance as a valid response, combined with easy access to the instruments that make the most extreme fantasies of vengeance come true made these shootings inevitable.