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fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:09 PM Feb 2018

Why is hunting so sacred?

I keep seeing folks say "you don't need an ar-15" to hunt etc.

So what? Who gives a shit about hunting? We have groceries stores on every corner. NO ONE, literally no one relies on hunting to live now.

So lets skip that, and ban them *ALL*. Hunting files, 6 shooters, machine guns, everything. I'll even compromise and for every gun that is turned in, get a coupon for a free crossbow, for the idiots who insist they must hunt.

Allowing people to have weapons & arms such as bows, knives, crossbows...that honors the second amendment, so there is no confusion there.

191 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why is hunting so sacred? (Original Post) fescuerescue Feb 2018 OP
I'm not a fan of hunting, but it's not accurate to say The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #1
Pheasant ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #2
During the Depression, my father shot pheasants with a .22 FarCenter Feb 2018 #76
Boy, He Must Have Been A Good Shot!!!! ProfessorGAC Feb 2018 #106
We used.22 cal cartridges filled with small shot to kill mice. nocalflea Feb 2018 #131
While I know that hunters exist and many do eat the food they catch fescuerescue Feb 2018 #6
"It seems to me that 99.9% of hunting is about the hobby, not the food." WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #8
Not even close. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #67
Excellent treatise on why some people hunt. Blue_true Feb 2018 #85
My pops made the best damn venison jerky you ever tasted. nocalflea Feb 2018 #139
Despite the philosophical ramifications, I've heard hunters say... forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #144
In the last 2 years I have killed 5 deer and a hog GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #154
Exactly. forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #171
I never hunted but grew up in the country askyagerz Feb 2018 #3
Plus, many of we liberals also hunt GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #75
Yes. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #87
Yep askyagerz Feb 2018 #94
Yeah. BreweryYardRat Feb 2018 #145
It depends on what you mean by "rely." WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #4
Personally, I think venison tastes like liver soaked in pee, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #11
A lot of the taste depends on the dressing and butchering, diet of the deer, etc. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #13
Thanks for the imagery. Blue_true Feb 2018 #89
If it tastes like pee DashOneBravo Feb 2018 #166
No. Many people live subsistence Drahthaardogs Feb 2018 #5
There are better ways to help those needy families fescuerescue Feb 2018 #7
Needy families aren't being helped as it is, whether they are rural or urban. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #10
Because we paying a horrible price in human lives fescuerescue Feb 2018 #24
6 million deer are killed by hunters in the U.S. every year The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #37
The guns that are used in mass murder are not hunting rifles or shotguns. Blue_true Feb 2018 #92
Bingo. Exactly right. WestMichRad Feb 2018 #114
"Hunting existed long before firearms were invented." So did starvation. EX500rider Feb 2018 #150
In general I'm against making killing easy fescuerescue Feb 2018 #183
Many people living a subsistence lifestyle Thyla Feb 2018 #22
And those people don't vote Democratic fescuerescue Feb 2018 #26
Good luck shooting a quail with a crossbow. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #29
Lots of hunters vote for the Democratic Party. GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #44
Who are you to decide what is best? Drahthaardogs Feb 2018 #149
Where can they hunt? treestar Feb 2018 #176
There are millions of public acres out west Drahthaardogs Feb 2018 #180
That's good. treestar Feb 2018 #181
It's a barbaric hobby. killing for fun. samir.g Feb 2018 #9
Pull yourself together. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #14
Do you eat meat? MontanaMama Feb 2018 #15
Most people have cognitive dissidence when it comes to eating animals. MisterProton Feb 2018 #25
No, I don't eat meat. "Bagging a deer" is ... Binkie The Clown Feb 2018 #43
But they taste so good... GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #48
Which other outrages agains human decency can be excused with "If it feels good..." nt Binkie The Clown Feb 2018 #54
They taste like liver soaked in pee, but many people like venison. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #55
I have had some that did GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #60
That can happen MontanaMama Feb 2018 #71
Your engaging in anthropomorphism by describing them as gentle and innocent. They are neither. Marengo Feb 2018 #66
Rats with hooves djg21 Feb 2018 #148
The small group of guys I hunt with would likely surprise some of the folks here who express... Marengo Feb 2018 #168
I usually appreciate your posts MontanaMama Feb 2018 #68
There is no objective right and wrong on this issue. Binkie The Clown Feb 2018 #116
Thank You! TwistOneUp Feb 2018 #57
Trophy hunting, yes; it's despicable. Hunting for food, no. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #16
Donald Jr. and Eric are fans of trophy hunting LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2018 #86
The other day a pride of lions killed and ate a poacher. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #88
I was too. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #126
I agree...Killing isn't "fun" for me.. whathehell Feb 2018 #129
My husband and son hunt MontanaMama Feb 2018 #12
+1 Ptah Feb 2018 #17
I grew up on a small farm. I have seen farm animals harvested. Blue_true Feb 2018 #97
Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #101
One "harvests" crops, and "murders" living creatures. To say "harvesting" doesn't change what it is. Binkie The Clown Feb 2018 #117
Animals are killed. Plants are harvested. Codeine Feb 2018 #120
you are part of the problem handmade34 Feb 2018 #18
Part of our cultural is also killing kids in schools fescuerescue Feb 2018 #20
killing children handmade34 Feb 2018 #69
All of this. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #72
You list a lot of good ideas. Another area I'd consider is requiring some kind of insurance. Gidney N Cloyd Feb 2018 #91
Very well said. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #27
LOL! But you'll alienate your ally right here on DU by calling HIM names. Seems like that's OK. Squinch Feb 2018 #65
I did not call anyone a name... handmade34 Feb 2018 #73
You said he was part of the problem that is causing these slaughters. That's vile. Squinch Feb 2018 #82
I want to apologize handmade34 Feb 2018 #90
Hunting has nothing to do with owning firearms. EL34x4 Feb 2018 #19
Well yes. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #21
Who's talking about hunting? Nobody cares about hunting. EL34x4 Feb 2018 #35
Oh I agree that not much will happen. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #38
There are people who told me that today RockaFowler Feb 2018 #58
How did you call them out? My neighbor uses an AR-15 variant to hunt coyotes, and Ive used... Marengo Feb 2018 #78
I haven't used one to hunt, but I have friends who do. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #79
I don't know any hunter MontanaMama Feb 2018 #84
I suggest you google "hunting with AR-15" images. EX500rider Feb 2018 #156
Yes. The hunters in my family only have treestar Feb 2018 #177
Your post is the ignorant equivalent of pouring gasoline onto the always red hot Atticus Feb 2018 #23
Honey, Turn on the stove, got a couple of possums today! Capperdan Feb 2018 #31
You don't need a gun to gather greens or mushrooms, either, but so what? Atticus Feb 2018 #45
Those wackos are beyond reason anyway fescuerescue Feb 2018 #40
In my neck of the woods, it's not just about getting food. logosoco Feb 2018 #28
Where's the corner grocery store in the Smoky Mountains? meadowlander Feb 2018 #30
I've been to the Smoky Mountains fescuerescue Feb 2018 #34
So have I, but I don't live there. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #39
Did you grow up in a cabin there meadowlander Feb 2018 #41
No but my father did fescuerescue Feb 2018 #46
Then I guess nobody else ever does, either. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #52
Well you asked a question and I gave you an honest answer fescuerescue Feb 2018 #59
You asked "Why is hunting so sacred". meadowlander Feb 2018 #80
You forgot that many of the "poor" have a pride in thier way of life. oneshooter Feb 2018 #147
Thanks for the reasonable post. nt Atticus Feb 2018 #51
If I remember right, even in Australia, under their restrictions treestar Feb 2018 #178
It's very deer to many people's hearts underpants Feb 2018 #32
... Adrahil Feb 2018 #50
LOL underpants Feb 2018 #109
I like to swim, some people like golf, some like to hunt. Blue_true Feb 2018 #33
Fuck hunters, fuck gun fuckers, fuck gun enablers. Retrotech Feb 2018 #36
"gun enablers" fescuerescue Feb 2018 #42
Ah, well! If your gonna throw REASON at us! nt Atticus Feb 2018 #56
Someone murdering creatures who never hurt them Retrotech Feb 2018 #62
If you are not a vegan, you are eating "creatures who never hurt you". Were they Atticus Feb 2018 #74
Lollllllllllllll WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #77
Okay, here's the Arkansas redneck liberal coming out. moriah Feb 2018 #98
Reason? Comatose Sphagetti Feb 2018 #115
Much better and more morally pure to Codeine Feb 2018 #121
Aninals killed for food MontanaMama Feb 2018 #133
Some poor rural families depend on hunting for meat. Adrahil Feb 2018 #47
I dont care for Meowmee Feb 2018 #49
Grocery stores on every corner? oberliner Feb 2018 #53
There are grocery stores on almost every corner The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #63
Right - the US is a very diverse country in so many ways oberliner Feb 2018 #70
When I was growing up, there were times we wouldn't have had much... TygrBright Feb 2018 #61
I have known a few people who hunt for food. One couple were indigenous. applegrove Feb 2018 #64
I think hunting with bare hands and teeth is okay if you eat everything you kill. byronius Feb 2018 #81
You must be a vegan? MontanaMama Feb 2018 #83
Ach, spotted. byronius Feb 2018 #105
I can appreciate that. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #107
It was vegan humor, sorry. byronius Feb 2018 #108
Gotcha. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #111
There may not actually be grocery stores as convenient as you suggest but Amazon's comin'. Gidney N Cloyd Feb 2018 #93
trust me it is and thats all there is to it dembotoz Feb 2018 #95
Animals you kill yourself are not necessarily healthy for you to consume. StarryNite Feb 2018 #96
Make hunting more sporty Alwaysna Feb 2018 #99
Can you name a mass shooting that used a traditional, non-automatic hunting rifle? Pobeka Feb 2018 #100
hunting WestIndianArchie Feb 2018 #102
It's like gathering. Turbineguy Feb 2018 #103
The government took my NA ancestors guns once Runningdawg Feb 2018 #104
The treatment of Native Americans is a permanent stain on this country. roamer65 Feb 2018 #187
I do dispute needing a gun to hunt. My second cousin prefers archery. moriah Feb 2018 #110
It always cracks me up when hunters kill a deer and get a picture with it..... USALiberal Feb 2018 #112
It can be, though. It's not easy. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #118
Use a knife only and I'll be impressed. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #119
that is a gun humping coward thing Skittles Feb 2018 #172
Most of the hunters I know leftyladyfrommo Feb 2018 #113
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2018 #122
Enjoy your stay. n/t rzemanfl Feb 2018 #125
The firearm is indeed the issue. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #128
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2018 #130
Hunters are weak, relying on a gun Codeine Feb 2018 #123
Wow. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #134
So bow hunting is fine with you? n/t MicaelS Feb 2018 #140
that is from some distance too Skittles Feb 2018 #155
Because it's a good way of saying "Fuck You very much"... MicaelS Feb 2018 #124
Less than 6% of the USA population went hunting in the past 12 months. That's small, Hoyt Feb 2018 #127
Generalities don't help this conversation. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #135
Sorry, fact is less than 6% hunt and shooting a bear may be good for your business, but Hoyt Feb 2018 #137
I dont disagree that 6% MontanaMama Feb 2018 #141
Enjoy Australia. I really dont have a problem with hunting rifles. Hoyt Feb 2018 #153
Well that is my point fescuerescue Feb 2018 #146
I agree. Heck, only about 33% even own a gun. And a lot less own and carry the Hoyt Feb 2018 #159
"Less than 6% of the USA population went hunting in the past 12 months. That's small" EX500rider Feb 2018 #160
Many, one time for chits and giggles. Are all the guns you own just to feed your family? Hoyt Feb 2018 #161
They frown on hunting in beach cities in Fla. EX500rider Feb 2018 #162
Population Control bpj62 Feb 2018 #132
Thank you for your thoughtful response. MontanaMama Feb 2018 #136
And most deer don't die of old age. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #138
It's all out war in the wild or even the lawn Kaleva Feb 2018 #142
Black walnut trees are particularly vicious. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #143
Not being argumentative DashOneBravo Feb 2018 #151
Hunting like that, without AR15s and similar, is OK by me. Stocking up Hoyt Feb 2018 #158
Waving a traitors flag DashOneBravo Feb 2018 #164
Well, Im Southern too and you and I know a lot of gunners are like that. Hoyt Feb 2018 #167
they enjoy killing Skittles Feb 2018 #152
My spouse and son hunt MontanaMama Feb 2018 #165
they enjoy hunting Skittles Feb 2018 #170
Yes they do. Happy now? MontanaMama Feb 2018 #174
uh huh Skittles Feb 2018 #184
Having hunting family members, I don't doubt there is some satisfaction in using a skill. moriah Feb 2018 #173
This is so well said. Thank you for saying it. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #179
it is the #1 satisfaction Skittles Feb 2018 #185
From the use of skill to kill, or just killing? moriah Feb 2018 #188
back to the food, and the population control, and "do you eat meat" Skittles Feb 2018 #189
I was actually trying to explore motivations, but your call. moriah Feb 2018 #190
Those who hunt AND eat what they kill cvoogt Feb 2018 #157
Good ideas. Most gunners are opposed to biometric IDs or other safety activation systems, thinking Hoyt Feb 2018 #169
even the tiniest impediment cvoogt Feb 2018 #191
I would never hunt but I understand why others do it. Willie Pep Feb 2018 #163
Some people really love it treestar Feb 2018 #175
I guess if you have hunted you might be able to see the answer clearer. Among many things beachbum bob Feb 2018 #182
Allowing hunting rifles and shotguns takes care of the hunting argument. roamer65 Feb 2018 #186

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
1. I'm not a fan of hunting, but it's not accurate to say
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:12 PM
Feb 2018

that nobody has to rely on hunting in order to eat. A lot of low-income people in rural areas do hunt in order to supply food for their families. Hunters also do a lot for conservation in many states. However, it is absolutely true that you don't need an assault rifle to bag pheasants for dinner.

ProfessorGAC

(64,885 posts)
2. Pheasant
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:15 PM
Feb 2018

You'd have to be quite the shot to hunt pheasant with hard ammunition, too. That's why the pheasant hunters around here use shotguns. Just some proportion of the bird shot has to hit the thing.

We've got a hunting area within a 6 iron of the golf course where i play and we see them out there every fall. Even with a shotgun, you'll hear 3 blasts and then look over there and see the bird flying away. So, hitting a pheasant must not be all that easy.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
76. During the Depression, my father shot pheasants with a .22
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:17 PM
Feb 2018

.22 ammo costs a lot less than shotgun shells. When you hit a pheasant in the head, it doesn't spoil the meat. Obviously, he shot them while they were on the ground.

ProfessorGAC

(64,885 posts)
106. Boy, He Must Have Been A Good Shot!!!!
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:22 PM
Feb 2018

That's dammed impressive! Their head is the size of a walnut!
I never would have guessed that.

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
131. We used.22 cal cartridges filled with small shot to kill mice.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:18 PM
Feb 2018

Very effective.

And yeah, my gramps hunted deer to feed his wife and kids during the depression.
Don't know caliber or type of gun he used, but my dad said there was nothing sporting about it. They were hungry. They made use of any advantage they could find.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
6. While I know that hunters exist and many do eat the food they catch
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:19 PM
Feb 2018

It has to be an extreme corner case of where it's absolutely necessary to survive.

And in those cases, it seems like we should be able to supplement and help those families in someway (which we should be doing now quite frankly)

It seems to me that 99.9% of hunting is about the hobby, not the food.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,309 posts)
8. "It seems to me that 99.9% of hunting is about the hobby, not the food."
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:21 PM
Feb 2018

Why not both?

Also I'm curious about where you got the "99.9%," even thought it's an opinion and not objective. What are you basing "it seem to me" on? What's your data set?

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
67. Not even close.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:09 PM
Feb 2018

It is about the experience of providing for yourself through fair chase ethical hunting. The meat is excellent, very lean and healthy. It is the goal of an ethical hunter to make sure that the animal is killed quickly and efficiently which is VERY different from the existence of animals in factory farming in this country. It is a family effort when a deer, elk or antelope comes home to get it cut and wrapped. My 12 year old got an elk and a deer this year and worked really hard to get it done. Early mornings in the cold with his dad not to mention the time spent at the shooting range to make sure he was familiar and comfortable with his rifle. He had to take a 4 week long hunters safety course to even apply for the tags. When his hunt was done, he was so proud of his effort. The experience of hunting for the guys in my family is not punctuated by the death of the animal. It goes much deeper than that.

For what it is worth, I was a strict vegetarian when I met my spouse. Not because I was against eating meat but because I felt I could not do the killing myself and felt it was hypocritical to buy meat from the store when I knew the animal was treated so horribly. The game that comes home to our house is from an animal that had one bad moment at the end of their lives as opposed to a bad life start to finish. If we are going to eat meat, it is important to understand that there is sacrifice involved. I take it seriously. I shot one deer many years ago. I cried and cried and then walked over a ridge and threw up. If my husband and son didn't hunt, I would not eat meat from the store.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
85. Excellent treatise on why some people hunt.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:24 PM
Feb 2018

Hunting is valid as long as the meat is put to use and bag limits are observed.

I used to occasionally watch the show Swamp People when I had time. I am sure that the majors ultimately made a decent mint, but the show depicted poor Sourthern life, where money is hard to come by and there are not many jobs around, places like those shown on Swamp People are becoming more and more of a reality as rural America hollows out.

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
139. My pops made the best damn venison jerky you ever tasted.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:02 PM
Feb 2018

His marinated venison ribs were killer and my mom's dove cacciatore was out of this world. The meat provided by the hunters in the family.

Thank you this post.
I'm not much of a hunter , but I do know the first time I landed a trout all by my lonesome, I truly understood the sense of accompolishment the hunters in my family felt. Reading a river or tracking game successfully is exhilarating.

forgotmylogin

(7,521 posts)
144. Despite the philosophical ramifications, I've heard hunters say...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:26 PM
Feb 2018

You don't want to shoot indiscriminately. The more noise made, the more chance you scare away all potential game from your area. They say you don't shoot unless you're sure of the target. Once you fire one shot, you're clearing every bit of wildlife from the area in a mile radius around you.

Firing an AR-15 I'm guessing would be like shooting a cannon in a quiet forest - at least from the audio I've heard on video of the school shooting and the the Vegas shooting.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
154. In the last 2 years I have killed 5 deer and a hog
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:48 PM
Feb 2018

I fired my rifle 6 times. The meat I eat comes from animals that did not suffer at all compared to meat eaten by most Americans. And it is as natural as it can get.

And my rifle sounds like a cannon vs a popgun compared to an AR.

The AR is a wimpy round for ethical hunting of medium or large game. In the state I deer hunt it is illegal to use for deer.

Because it is designed for maiming humans, not humanely killing animals.

Have a nice weekend. If that is possible after this week.

forgotmylogin

(7,521 posts)
171. Exactly.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 02:24 AM
Feb 2018

A legit hunter isn't running around the woods chasing shit down, guns a'blazing firing hundreds of rounds. There's no massive reloading necessary. Rifles and shotguns are legit for that - they're not built to massacre hordes.

askyagerz

(776 posts)
3. I never hunted but grew up in the country
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:17 PM
Feb 2018

Almost everyone i know hunts. I never did understand it but people really love the whole experience. It's a family thing. We as Liberals should really leave it alone as long as its not trophy hunting. Trying to take people's rifles and shotguns is not compromising on our part. Makes us look too extreme and our message is then lost

askyagerz

(776 posts)
94. Yep
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:48 PM
Feb 2018

My home county votes about 60/40 republican but almost 100% of those people either hunt or have loved ones that hunt.
People also don't realize that this is one of the biggest issues that gets country folks to stay on the other side of the fence. Anytime someone from the left screams just take all the guns and hunting is stupid they are just hurting our side.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,309 posts)
4. It depends on what you mean by "rely."
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:18 PM
Feb 2018

One deer makes a food budget go a lot farther. Venison is free-range and organic; I know how it was killed and butchered. It's also delicious.

Funds from hunting licenses go toward conservation and habitat efforts, too.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
11. Personally, I think venison tastes like liver soaked in pee,
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:38 PM
Feb 2018

but a lot of people like it, and some depend on deer hunting to supplement their diets.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,309 posts)
13. A lot of the taste depends on the dressing and butchering, diet of the deer, etc.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:40 PM
Feb 2018

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with it.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
89. Thanks for the imagery.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:29 PM
Feb 2018

Have to remind my self never to go into a restaurant and ask for liver that was soaked in pee, cooked medium well.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
5. No. Many people live subsistence
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:18 PM
Feb 2018

Just because YOU never had to or people don't where you live doesn't make it so.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
7. There are better ways to help those needy families
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:21 PM
Feb 2018

Than giving them a gun and telling them to go hunt food.

And in any event, why must hunting be done by gun? there are other weapons.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
10. Needy families aren't being helped as it is, whether they are rural or urban.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:31 PM
Feb 2018

And the GOP is trying to eliminate existing programs for the poor. Why is it so terrible for people who need food to go out and obtain it for themselves? And have you ever tried to bag a pheasant with a net?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
24. Because we paying a horrible price in human lives
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:33 PM
Feb 2018

due to the free available of guns.

I bet the number of human lives lost to guns, far far outnumber the number of animals taken and eaten.

In any event, those animals taken and consumed could be hunted by other means. Hunting existed long before firearms were invented.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
37. 6 million deer are killed by hunters in the U.S. every year
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:49 PM
Feb 2018

according to this source, which also describes problems with deer overpopulation. http://www.actionbioscience.org/biodiversity/rooney.html. So your supposition is incorrect.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
92. The guns that are used in mass murder are not hunting rifles or shotguns.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:36 PM
Feb 2018

As liberals, we need to understand what is a problem and what is not in regards to guns. If we try to take away people's hunting rifles and shotguns, we will lose the fight before it even gets started. If we focus on the real problem, assault weapons and Saturday night specials, then we have a chance to make society safer.

WestMichRad

(1,317 posts)
114. Bingo. Exactly right.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:52 PM
Feb 2018

There are many legitimate reasons for hunting and shooting, as noted in other posts. (For instance, subsistence, animal population control where we have wiped out predator species, for sport, and others.) None of these activities use the weapons used for mass person-on-person violence.

We have to make it clear that we want to protect the right of people to engage in the legitimate activities and focus on eliminating only the weapons used for nearly all of the societal violence. If we don't make this distinction, we'll never succeed.

EX500rider

(10,810 posts)
150. "Hunting existed long before firearms were invented." So did starvation.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:34 PM
Feb 2018

Or are you under the impression the hunting with spear or bow is easy?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
183. In general I'm against making killing easy
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 02:16 PM
Feb 2018

If our goal is to make killing easy, then maybe we should just send everyone an M-16

Thyla

(791 posts)
22. Many people living a subsistence lifestyle
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:31 PM
Feb 2018

Don't want or need any help and would be offended by the suggestion. Granted they don't need automatic weapons to do so but even I can't complain about someone owning their lifestyle and decision making, to take a life of an animal for ones survival gives you a far more honest version of life than hand out chicken nuggets.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
176. Where can they hunt?
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:46 PM
Feb 2018

I'm on the east coast, and they have to belong to some exclusive club to get access to the land. Is it easier out west?

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
180. There are millions of public acres out west
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:03 PM
Feb 2018

If you are you willing to hike and pack out, the sky is the limit

samir.g

(835 posts)
9. It's a barbaric hobby. killing for fun.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:27 PM
Feb 2018

Good ol family values. Kill a frightened animal to bond with the kids. I guess life can't be all monster truck rallies and cross burnings.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
15. Do you eat meat?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:43 PM
Feb 2018

If so, I hope you purchase free range, cruelty free meat. If you go to the store and buy regular packaged meat, you are participating in cruel factory farming where animals are tortured from birth to death. There are almost no exceptions to this unless you are very careful to investigate where your meat comes from. Fair chase hunting is not cruel. Please see my comment below and for what it's worth, I've never burned a cross nor have I attended a monster truck rally.

MisterProton

(56 posts)
25. Most people have cognitive dissidence when it comes to eating animals.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:33 PM
Feb 2018

They fail to see that connection between "killing animals" and eating... One really has to do some pretty awesome mental gymnastics to pull that one off.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
43. No, I don't eat meat. "Bagging a deer" is ...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:53 PM
Feb 2018

a euphemism for violently destroying the still beating heart of a gentle, innocent creature. The only thing worse than such wanton killing, is to take delight in the killing. Such is the "hobby" of a hunter.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
55. They taste like liver soaked in pee, but many people like venison.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:00 PM
Feb 2018

And many poor rural people depend on it.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
60. I have had some that did
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:03 PM
Feb 2018

But there things hunters can do that prevent that from happening. This thread is not the place to go into that. Some here are offended by the very idea of hunting. I will refrain from going into details

 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
148. Rats with hooves
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:20 PM
Feb 2018

That have wildly overpopulated as a result of the lack of predators, and tend to be infested with deer ticks that spread diseases like Lyme to humans and other animals (I was treated last year). I can’t stand the thought of hunting, but it’s necessary, and there certainly are responsible hunters who are just as concerned about progressive issues such as the environment as we are.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
168. The small group of guys I hunt with would likely surprise some of the folks here who express...
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:54 AM
Feb 2018

Prejudice towards hunters. For example we all, including the Mormon, strongly agree that the universal single-payer health care system is far superior to what we currently have. The Mormon served his mission in Spain so witnessed the benefits first hand. As for myself, when I began hunting as a teenager I identified as a communist. I hung out with a group of mostly older Marxists-Leninists-Maoists, most of whom encouraged me to learn the skill and had a strong disdain for the anti-hunting attitude, refering to it as a bourgeois fetish. On the scale of progressivism, these folks make most here on DU look pale by comparison.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
116. There is no objective right and wrong on this issue.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:02 PM
Feb 2018

I feel one way, you feel another. Neither of us is right and neither of us is wrong. We are both being true to ourselves, and I respect that. But I feel strongly about it. The operative word being "feel". I simply don't have the heart to kill another living, breathing being. Some would call that a weakness. I call it a strength. But regardless of my strong wording, I'm not claiming to be proclaiming a universal truth. I'm proclaiming how I feel about killing.

TwistOneUp

(1,020 posts)
57. Thank You!
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:01 PM
Feb 2018

If the government takes our guns away, they'll be even more aggressive and one-sided towards us than they are now. We are currently living in a de facto theocracy. Take away our guns and we'll be living in Jesusland. No thank you.

Responsible gun ownership is not the issue. It's *who* gets to own *what* guns that matters.

Who
People with agression issues should be banned from owning guns. Mentally ill peeps, abusive individuals, and bullies should have their guns taken from them. All types.
Period.

What
Robert Mercer is a Cheetolini loving fat cat who is a private citizen. He has the largest machine gun collection in the world. Why is beyond me. Who needs a collection of machine guns?!? I don't see him fighting ISIS...

All peeps with full auto guns, bump stocks, and auto sears (converts AR15 to an M16) should receive same penalty as peeps with silencers: 10yr mandatory minimum. The 1968 NFA law provides for this - *enforce the damn thing already*, wouls ya? There is no need for private citizens to have full auto or suppressed weps.

Semi-auto is no different from pump from bolt - one shot per trigger press. It's the NFA/full auto that scare me. If the Parkland shooter had a bump stock or converted his AR15 to an M16, he could've killed half the kids there.

And for the record, I used to hunt. With a compiund bow, or a pump action shotgun.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
16. Trophy hunting, yes; it's despicable. Hunting for food, no.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:46 PM
Feb 2018

Unless you're a vegan, some animal died for your dinner or your shoes. I don't care for hunting myself but if people are doing it because they intend to eat what they kill, I don't disapprove. In my family we almost always had pheasant for Thanksgiving, the result of my dad's hunting efforts. It was tastier and more healthful than turkey and the pheasants probably had a better life than some poor factory-raised bird. Also, my dad wasn't an idiot.

86. Donald Jr. and Eric are fans of trophy hunting
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:26 PM
Feb 2018


I think it would be fairer to give them each a knife and let them loose naked in the wilderness where the big game animals live. Now, that would be sport!

It could even be televised, since Donnie Two Scoops is such a fan of reality television. As long as he got paid royalties, Trump could give a shit what happens to his sons.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
12. My husband and son hunt
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 03:38 PM
Feb 2018

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

because the meat is excellent and healthier than anything I can buy in a store. I will also say it is part of the culture here in Montana. We also grow a garden and raise chickens. Hunting is part of providing food for our family just like the garden and the chickens - being self reliant is something we are trying to teach our child so that if he has to, he knows he can provide for himself. We're not weird preppers either, if that's where you're going.

My husband has owned a taxidermy shop for 30 years. 99% of his clients are ethical fair chase hunters and I don't know any of them who don't fully utilize the meat. If they don't use it themselves, they donate to the local food bank or soup kitchen. I can afford to buy meat in the store but choose not to. Factory farming is cruel beyond measure. The first thing I ask someone who states they are an anti-hunter is whether or not they eat meat. Meat doesn't come from the store. It comes from an animal who most likely lives a miserable tortured existence until it dies a horrible death.

Edited to add: I firmly believe that the AR15 and other assault style weapons have no place in this country. NO place in the hands of anyone outside the military.

I take extreme exception to being called an idiot. Thank you very much.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
97. I grew up on a small farm. I have seen farm animals harvested.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:53 PM
Feb 2018

The one my family killed were lucky, they took a bullet to the brain, but even then they kicked until their throats were cut.

I think factory farms use blunt force trauma to the head. Never witnessed it, but my guess is the animals don't die instantly.

BTW, I agree with the points you are making, they are rational.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
101. Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:02 PM
Feb 2018

This is my first experience getting a little beat up here on DU but I guess that's part of it. You're correct, death for animals on factory farms is traumatic and their life is worse. No animal killed for food should have more than a bad moment. We owe them that. If my husband and son didn't hunt, I wouldn't eat meat. I didn't grow up in a family that hunted, it was all new to me as an adult.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
117. One "harvests" crops, and "murders" living creatures. To say "harvesting" doesn't change what it is.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:04 PM
Feb 2018

I've never seen a carrot kick and scream in terror when it was harvested.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
120. Animals are killed. Plants are harvested.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:49 PM
Feb 2018

Use of such euphemisms makes me suspicious of a person’s motives.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
18. you are part of the problem
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:18 PM
Feb 2018

because of your lack of critical thinking and refusal to think this through... I'm pretty much a vegan and I desperately want some limitations on guns... I do not hunt, but I am aware of people that do and the part they play in our society

hunting is an important cultural thing... many people "give a shit" about hunting and no, you are incorrect that there are grocery stores on every corner (see food deserts: http://www.foodispower.org/food-deserts/ )

...and yes, there are people in places that rely on hunting for their nutrition

...hunters cooperate in conservation of wildlife (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12141-294259--,00.html)

So, ok you have conceded that, we as a society, we can allow reasonable "guns"


we are stuck with that... we do not need to alienate the millions of legitimate hunters and supporters of them by being unreasonable about the subject and calling them idiots

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
69. killing children
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:11 PM
Feb 2018

is an aberration, but yes, I very much agree that cultural change is sometimes desperately needed

to effect the changes needed we need to be thoughtful and deliberate... I am as angry as you and I have no doubt that you are angry... hunters are not the people we need to be addressing right now... I plan on sending photos of children killed to Republican congresspeople everyday until something happens...

these are some of the ideas that I think could easily be implemented... I am sure there are more...

Background Checks
22 percent of guns are obtained without one

Protection Orders
Keep men subject to domestic violence protection orders from having guns

Ban Under-21s
A ban on people under 21 purchasing firearms (this is already the case in many states)

Safe Storage
These include trigger locks and guns and ammunition stored separately, especially when children are in the house

Straw Purchases
Tighter enforcement of laws on straw purchases of weapons, and some limits on how many guns can be purchased in a month

Ammunition Checks
background check for anybody buying ammunition.

End Immunity
End immunity for firearm companies. That’s a subsidy to a particular industry

Ban Bump Stocks
A ban on bump stocks of the kind used in Las Vegas to mimic automatic weapon fire

Research ‘Smart Guns’
“Smart guns” fire only after a fingerprint or PIN is entered, or if used near a particular bracelet.

ATF computer base of guns owned
CDC allowed to research

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
72. All of this.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:14 PM
Feb 2018

It will take efforts on many fronts to make our kids safe. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,824 posts)
91. You list a lot of good ideas. Another area I'd consider is requiring some kind of insurance.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:31 PM
Feb 2018

I think it's definitely going to take a range of actions.

Squinch

(50,924 posts)
65. LOL! But you'll alienate your ally right here on DU by calling HIM names. Seems like that's OK.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:06 PM
Feb 2018

And no. He's not a part of the problem. He posted something on a website. Get a grip.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
73. I did not call anyone a name...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:15 PM
Feb 2018

that is not something I do (unless it is DT or associate)...

I call out shortcomings I see occasionally... I know the poster is angry... I can't imagine that anyone is more angry than I am but that doesn't mean I can't address something I think is in error

Squinch

(50,924 posts)
82. You said he was part of the problem that is causing these slaughters. That's vile.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:22 PM
Feb 2018

you can parse all you like, but that's still going to be vile.

Thoughts and prayers to you. Wavey thing.

handmade34

(22,756 posts)
90. I want to apologize
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:31 PM
Feb 2018

to anyone who thinks I was referring to the killing... my response was to address the furthering conversation about gun control

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
19. Hunting has nothing to do with owning firearms.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:23 PM
Feb 2018

In fact, there has been a confirmed decline in hunting participation. Fewer Americans are taking up hunting each year.

The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in America today. It is not a hunting weapon and many of the people who purchase an AR-15 have never been hunting nor have any interest in ever going hunting.

As such, these people also have zero interest in Grandpa's old bolt-action .30-06. The covet the cool black guns from the video games they grew up playing.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
21. Well yes.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:31 PM
Feb 2018

That is part of my point.

Why do we keep tiptoeing around hunting when it comes to gun regulation?

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
35. Who's talking about hunting? Nobody cares about hunting.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:47 PM
Feb 2018

The people buying AR-15s don't care about hunting.

You're talking about banning all firearms and carving out a 2nd Amendment exception for crossbows.

This isn't going to happen.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
38. Oh I agree that not much will happen.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:50 PM
Feb 2018

Who's talking about hunting? It's usually only one degree away from any discussion of gun bans. Surely you have noticed that. Nothing is more sacred it seems than the great white hunter. This is my point.

I'm talking about what should happen.

No doubt we'll all have this same conversation a few more times this year, without all the same points brought up, same disagreements and same results

RockaFowler

(7,429 posts)
58. There are people who told me that today
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:01 PM
Feb 2018

They use the AR15 for hunting

I called them out on their BS and still mum.

 

Marengo

(3,477 posts)
78. How did you call them out? My neighbor uses an AR-15 variant to hunt coyotes, and Ive used...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:19 PM
Feb 2018

A .308 variant on a mule deer hunt.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
84. I don't know any hunter
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:24 PM
Feb 2018

who hunts with an AR15. I'm knee deep in hunters too. We've owned a taxidermy shop for 30 years.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
177. Yes. The hunters in my family only have
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:49 PM
Feb 2018

hunting rifles, and that's all. The rest is camouflage, small boat, tons of gear.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
23. Your post is the ignorant equivalent of pouring gasoline onto the always red hot
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:32 PM
Feb 2018

"They're a' comin' ta git our guns!" wacko propaganda. And, the notion that "no one" relies on hunting---and fishing, and gathering---to live is an admission that you know little about the rural poor in America.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
45. You don't need a gun to gather greens or mushrooms, either, but so what?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:54 PM
Feb 2018

The point is that there are people for whom hunting continues to provide food which is needed by them and without which they would, at times, go hungry.

You are free to not care about these Americans, but do not deny their very existence.

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
28. In my neck of the woods, it's not just about getting food.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:37 PM
Feb 2018

Although that is a big part of it.

I live in what was a semi-rural area that has become more suburban in the 30 years I have lived here. I don't think anyone out here has never had an encounter with a deer in the road. My son in law messed up his car pretty good last year (lucky for us they make cars so safe now!). The deer are doing fairly well with the increase in traffic, but it is still a thing.

Also, for as much as I am in awe when i see deer, I know if they did not have predators (and that is pretty much people now, since the real predators are long gone!) there would be a lot of problems with starvation and disease among the herds.

Note: I personally could not hunt for meat. I buy meat that l tell myself looks nothing like an animal! But I know folks who get a good portion of their food supply this way.

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
30. Where's the corner grocery store in the Smoky Mountains?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:40 PM
Feb 2018

Some people in poorer parts of the country can only afford to eat meat that they hunt for themselves. So essentially what they hear you saying is "who gives a shit that I am taking food out of your kids' mouths". And then they flock to Trump.

I would support limiting guns to hunting rifles and then capping the number that people can own. I don't think it's either morally correct, necessary or politically wise to ban all hunting with guns. Also totally unenforceable.

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
41. Did you grow up in a cabin there
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:52 PM
Feb 2018

with no plumbing or electricity, home school instead of spending two hours on a bus every day, get the only job you could paying $7.50 an hour ($15,000 a year before taxes) with no benefits, get married, have three or four kids and then try to raise them on it?

No? Then you are being willfully obtuse.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
46. No but my father did
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:55 PM
Feb 2018

And in fact his conditions were much much worse deep in rural Kentucky. I've been to the cabin he grew up in. Except he didn't have a school bus.

He didn't rely on hunting I do know that.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
59. Well you asked a question and I gave you an honest answer
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:02 PM
Feb 2018

Look - we both know that there are people who need food assistance.

I'm saying lets make sure they get it - every day and on a regular basis. Surely that's better than putting a weapon in their hands and hoping they get lucky taking down an animal, while at the same time giving cover to the gun-people in our society that believe in free and unlimited guns for all.

meadowlander

(4,388 posts)
80. You asked "Why is hunting so sacred".
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:20 PM
Feb 2018

The answer is because it gives food insecure people a feeling of security. And their lives are already hard enough.

Yes, in some parallel universe where all government was Democratic and we sat down and decided to dedicate resources to making sure nobody goes hungry in the country, we could theoretically feed everyone. But we don't. And its not going to happen any time in the foreseeable future. We can't even agree that basic health care is a human right.

Hungry kids are not going to wait for government to get its act together. And having the feeling that, no matter what shit hits the fan, you can still go out and feed your kids something is what drives the attachment to hunting with guns. That is the mindset that you are up against.

Do you think someone clueless enough to make a statement like "there are grocery stores on every corner" coming in and saying "You're an idiot. You can live on field greens like my dad during the Depression" is going to change that mindset or convince that person to vote for your party?

Why not use a crossbow? Because it is harder. And when your kids' survival is at stake, you use every advantage you can get.

I also support food assistance. Let's do it. But in the meantime, let people provide for themselves. You don't need to take hunting rifles to stop school shootings. Start with the low hanging fruit - assault rifles and handguns. Address food insecurity. Then you have a foundation on which you could potentially make a case for restricting hunting.

oneshooter

(8,614 posts)
147. You forgot that many of the "poor" have a pride in thier way of life.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:58 PM
Feb 2018

They are survivors and to walk up and GIVE them something that they can not PAY you for is an insult.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
178. If I remember right, even in Australia, under their restrictions
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:52 PM
Feb 2018

they can have guns for hunting.

Hunters don't strike me as gun freaks, collecting as many guns as they can. They only want hunting rifles and if they spend more it is on other hunting gear.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
33. I like to swim, some people like golf, some like to hunt.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:43 PM
Feb 2018

Some people like the solitude of the woods and tracking stuff. I honestly have no issue with single shot hunting rifle and shotguns or even three or four shot ones.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
42. "gun enablers"
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:52 PM
Feb 2018

I think that is a better way illustrate my point.

Our sacred protection of hunting, turns us into enablers of gun violence.

 

Retrotech

(38 posts)
62. Someone murdering creatures who never hurt them
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:04 PM
Feb 2018

in the name of "Harvesting food" in an age of supermarkets has already abandoned reason.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
74. If you are not a vegan, you are eating "creatures who never hurt you". Were they
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:16 PM
Feb 2018

"murdered"? Ever butcher your own chickens or hogs or steers? Is that "murder"?

moriah

(8,311 posts)
98. Okay, here's the Arkansas redneck liberal coming out.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:56 PM
Feb 2018

First, are you vegan? If you are, you'll know that it's an expensive way to live compared to what people on SNAP can afford. Talk about balancing vegetable proteins to get a full complement all you want, but just try to justify your soy formula for your non-milk allergic baby to a WIC officer based on personal beliefs.

Now, if you're going to say that somehow getting your meat in pre-packaged plastic containers means that your hands are as clean as the package seems to be of "murdering creatures who never harmed you", you've obviously led a life distanced from the reality of meat as food.

Have you ever raised meat?

Have you ever fed a pair of calves from the time they were weaned until they were ready for slaughter? Dealt with getting head-butted off your feet because you didn't want to dehorn the feeder calves, or castrate them unnecessarily if they'd achieve weight before it was necessary and no females to get them unnecessarily excited around? Gotten affection for them even after landing in literal bullshit? Cried when you took them for processing, but still ate the meat because beef comes from cows?

Have you ever raised eggs? Woke up in the morning to go to the outhouse and been greeted by a flock of free range chickens? Decided whether you could hold your water long enough to give them their morning corn, or if you wanted observers the entire time you took your dump? Searched for eggs and candled them to make sure there wasn't an embryo surprise waiting for you if you put it in the baking? Stewed the aggressive culled roosters with dumplings?

Have you ever raised dairy? Tried to milk a goat? Goats are quite interesting, though my advice is to fence them OUT, not in. They love tomatoes, and don't think about leaving anything that looks green and leafy near them. Our nanny produced enough for the child in the household who was having allergy issues and still keep her female kid healthy. They got the highest prices at auction when the kid grew up, and went into a dairy herd.

Have you ever even driven BY a commercial poultry operation? You'd know because of the smell.

Have you seen the birds being bred as fryers? We hwd three male Tyson refugee fryers dumped on us by would-be rescuers. They did better in our flock, out-competing the native roosters for the hens, but genetically they were very flawed birds because the line wasn't bred for health -- it was bred for fast weight gain and fast slaughter. Despite having free range all three developed problems that required euthanasia before four months had passed. They couldn't walk and were getting mites the others could fight off.

You think I've abandoned reason because I actually feel better about eating the venison my hunting family members gift us with than I do animals I haven't raised? I at least know the venison in my chilli had a better life before becoming venison than most of that perfectly pre-packaged meat at the supermarket.

Now, I have said multiple times in threads that hunting didn't suffer during the "assault weapon" ban, and won't suffer from magazine limitations. And I'm *glad* it's illegal to not process and either eat or donate your kills here. Just killing for sport and not using the sacrifice of the animal's life for food IS beyond reason.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
133. Aninals killed for food
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:29 PM
Feb 2018

and sold in the grocery store have endured a tortured existence at best from birth to death. Buying meat at a supermarket supports that torture.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
47. Some poor rural families depend on hunting for meat.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:55 PM
Feb 2018

My sister's family gets more than half their meat from hunting.

But more importantly, hunting is essential in many areas to keep the deer population in check. WE've eliminated most natural predators, so hunting is important to keep the deer population from destroying the ecosystem and causing a massive starvation die-off.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
49. I dont care for
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 04:56 PM
Feb 2018

hunting culture at all and don’t understand it. Doing it for your survival is one thing but it’s cruel in its own way maybe less for the most part than the slaughter houses. It’s not safe and I’m sure more than a few people hunt when drinking etc and end up shooting each other or an innocent etc. I visited at a farmhouse in the Perigord and it was awful. Nothing but gunshots in the early evening and dusk and you couldn’t go outside for a walk safely. The dogs there were also trained to be vicious except for a roaming beagle who came to visit us. I have to eat meat due to health reasons but I eat free range / humane and I hope to be able to go back to vegetarian or vegan at some point.

You’ll never stop guns or hunting in this country that is certain. Making it safer is the only thing that can be done and maybe not even that.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
63. There are grocery stores on almost every corner
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:05 PM
Feb 2018

here in my urban Minneapolis neighborhood, where I couldn't hunt if I wanted to, and where even if I could, the only wild game would be squirrels, raccoons and small birds. There are no grocery stores on every corner in parts of the country where there aren't even corners, which in terms of square miles is most of it. If you're living in Alaska, most of the central plains, Appalachia, or many poor communities in the south, you are probably a very long way from a grocery store.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
70. Right - the US is a very diverse country in so many ways
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:12 PM
Feb 2018

The experience of living in urban Mpls is very different from living in rural Alaska, etc.

TygrBright

(20,755 posts)
61. When I was growing up, there were times we wouldn't have had much...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:03 PM
Feb 2018

...protein in our diets if it weren't for the venison, duck, and pheasant my grandfather hunted.

And I wouldn't be so certain about your assertion that "no one" relies on hunting to live now. There are still a good many subsistence hunters and trappers in frontier areas here in NM and I imagine other states with frontier areas have similar populations. As do rural mountain areas back East.

Personally, I think 'camera hunting' is way more exciting and satisfying than hunting with guns, but there are still several good reasons to allow and support well-managed game hunting.

It would be difficult to manage populations of deer in some areas without deer hunting, for one.

For another, the involvement and engagement of wildfowl hunters in their sport is actually responsible for quite a lot of habitat preservation.

informatively,
Bright

applegrove

(118,503 posts)
64. I have known a few people who hunt for food. One couple were indigenous.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:06 PM
Feb 2018

It is the least environmental footprint of any way to get meat. I don't mind people hunting if they eat what they kill. Especially indigenous or poor.

byronius

(7,391 posts)
81. I think hunting with bare hands and teeth is okay if you eat everything you kill.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:20 PM
Feb 2018

Raw.

That's Manly Hunting. Everything else is just pushing a button.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
107. I can appreciate that.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:22 PM
Feb 2018

I have to take exception to the "push button" hunting comment, however. Fair chase hunting can be really challenging. It is hard work if done ethically. If my spouse and son didn't hunt I wouldn't eat meat. I was a vegetarian before I was married. We don't buy meat from the store. Yes, they hunt with a rifle but they're not out spraying bullets in the woods with an AR15. I hope there's room for all of us here at DU acknowledging that we're all different and bring something unique to the table, so to speak.

byronius

(7,391 posts)
108. It was vegan humor, sorry.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:34 PM
Feb 2018

I grew up with hunting, never cared for it, don't really have too much of a problem with it unless you're talking canned hunts or trophy animals or 120 grand worth of satellite gear and rifles with scopes and an ATV carrying a 320 pound guy drunk and high on meth who's glaring at backpackers with a sinister leer.

Because I have seen that. And I thought about hunting that #$%#er.

And I would have eaten him.

Part of the strange thing about becoming vegan aside from the amazing goddamned health boost (!!!!!) is that your consciousness begins to stretch out of the box. Almost as if human consciousness won't allow someone to consider animal suffering if it's part of the diet, but once you quit, it creeps in.

I'll never go back. But I try to be the vegan I would have wanted to meet before I became vegan.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
111. Gotcha.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:47 PM
Feb 2018

Thanks for the clarification. I'm with you 110% on the trophy/canned hunting BS. It's disgusting and I have no room for it. I guess all we can do is try to be the best whatever we are for the good of all of us. I appreciate you talking to me about where you are byronius.

dembotoz

(16,786 posts)
95. trust me it is and thats all there is to it
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:48 PM
Feb 2018

its sacred

i don't understand it
i don't like it

but i have seen it over 60 times....
don't mess with it.

you will just drive it underground and provide fertile hunting ground for the wackos

StarryNite

(9,440 posts)
96. Animals you kill yourself are not necessarily healthy for you to consume.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 05:51 PM
Feb 2018

So if you like to kill 'em yourself, don't use that as your excuse.

‘Surprising’ Discovery Made About Chronic Wasting Disease
New study shows that prions can bind to plants
BY COOKSON BEECHER | JUNE 1, 2015

Soto would agree. He said that even though there have been no confirmed cases of infections in humans from CWD, the public should know that “it’s a possibility that needs to be explored.”

“I don’t want to scare people,” he said, “but these (CWD) prions are accumulating, and prions have a long incubation period — sometimes as long as 30 to 40 years in humans.”

]http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2015/06/researchers-make-surprising-discovery-about-spread-of-chronic-wasting-disease/#.WodRZKjwaUk

Pobeka

(4,999 posts)
100. Can you name a mass shooting that used a traditional, non-automatic hunting rifle?
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:01 PM
Feb 2018

I am not a hunter, but I support the right to hunt.

Most people have no idea of where there food comes from beyond the grocery, store, and this is a huge problem that undermines sensible, sustainable relationships between human populations and our long term survival which is dependent on the productivity of the land.

Even non-subsistance hunters have a close relationship with the land, and I think their voicing opinions to the governement about land management is very important.

BTW, the only mass shooting I can think of that the shooter used a traditional hunting rifle is the clocktower shooter at the University of Texas in 1966:
[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman|

WestIndianArchie

(386 posts)
102. hunting
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:03 PM
Feb 2018

It's not about being able to hunt for food. They want to be able to hunt people, specifically non-white people. Got it

Runningdawg

(4,514 posts)
104. The government took my NA ancestors guns once
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:08 PM
Feb 2018

and told them they wouldn't need to hunt, they would provide all their food. They wouldn't need the skins for warmth or shelter, they would provide homes and blankets. They wouldn't need protection from their enemies, they would protect them.
We won't be fooled again.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
187. The treatment of Native Americans is a permanent stain on this country.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:22 PM
Feb 2018

We need to apologize for it and try to make amends the best way we can for the genocide.

If I were president, that’s exactly what I would call it...a genocide.

I’d be shot in my first year in office.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
110. I do dispute needing a gun to hunt. My second cousin prefers archery.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:45 PM
Feb 2018

And I know she's proficient. Her deep freeze is never empty. (Even with a six annual limit here, that's a lot of processed meat per hunter.)

Why does she in particular keep on, despite being a grandma herself? She was the oldest and went along with her now-deceased father on hunting trips a lot growing up. And she likes venison. It may not be the only was she can keep her family fed, but it does reduce winter meat costs.

Yes, they were the "country cousins", my grandparents bucked tradition and moved to the city. They often had feeder animals, which I only raised while I spent time in a *very* different ideologically group (off the grid sustainable living).

Myself, I more enjoyed my required deer camp attendance shooting with my camera, though I wasn't excused from learning the basics of processing. I also enjoy fishing (and am much better at getting a good fillet there.) My sister and her husband enjoy both a lot more than I. They get time in the wilderness and meat.

I actually tend to agree archery is more sporting. But muzzleloaders aren't what's causing shootings, and if semi-automatic is the new technology, magazine limits should be 1000% Constitutional regardless of if people argue about whether an AR is a great weapon for filling your freezer to supplement food. If you need more than 5 bullets to shoot a deer, the Maine/Oregon regulation, you are either lazy because you just don't want to reload, or don't need to be shooting.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
112. It always cracks me up when hunters kill a deer and get a picture with it.....
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:51 PM
Feb 2018

it is like some big accomplishment.

Really weird to me.

leftyladyfrommo

(18,866 posts)
113. Most of the hunters I know
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:51 PM
Feb 2018

don't need the meat. They just like to put on the camouflage outfits, jump in the truck and go tromp in the woods.

Mostly it's a guy bonding thing. And they get out of the house for a while.

I don't hunt and I don't like hunting but if there wasn't hunting the deer population would go completely out of control. We have way too many deer as it is. So many get hit by cars. Cars get wrecked and people get hurt or killed.

Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #128)

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
124. Because it's a good way of saying "Fuck You very much"...
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:57 PM
Feb 2018

To people with your mindset. That's a good a reason as any.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
127. Less than 6% of the USA population went hunting in the past 12 months. That's small,
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:10 PM
Feb 2018

and most probably went to drink, talk racist crud, and shoot a couple of baited animals for jollies.

True hunters are not really a problem, as long as we aren't talking people.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
135. Generalities don't help this conversation.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:45 PM
Feb 2018

We've owned a taxidermy shop for 30 years. I know tons of hunters. While there might be a puke hunter here and there, "most" of them don't go out to drink, talk racist crud and bait animals. None of them hunt with AR15's and none of them hunt people. In reading this thread there's quite a few hunters here on DU so this general talk about how horrible hunters are is useless and offensive to me.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
137. Sorry, fact is less than 6% hunt and shooting a bear may be good for your business, but
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:52 PM
Feb 2018

that's not good enough to allow people to buy AR15s, etc.

Personally, I'm fine with someone who hunts to feed his family having a gun or two for that. And, I'm sorry, you might not see racist white wing, drunk hunters, but I've seen plenty of them in baited fields, especially when I was younger. Didn't impress me a bit.

Do the math if you think there are more than 6% of population who are regular hunters --

https://www.statista.com/statistics/227422/number-of-hunters-usa/

http://www.outdoornews.com/2017/09/21/hunter-participation-numbers-continue-drop-sorry-situation/

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
141. I dont disagree that 6%
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:09 PM
Feb 2018

might be right on. I also don't disagree that there are some racist right wing hunters out there too and they don't impress me wither. My point is that there's a lot of those folks who are reasonable about wanting to own a shotgun or a rifle and don't want AR15's or military type weapons in the hands of civilians. There are quite a few of those same folks here on DU in fact. I AM doing the math and we need everybody on board if we're going to get any kind of gun control in this country. I don't think we should alienate those people in the process. We won't get all of them to be sure but we could get some of them. I'm headed to Australia in a week, my husband is judging their national taxidermy competition. Australians are avid hunters. They also ban assault weapons and understand why that is necessary. We can do that too.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
153. Enjoy Australia. I really dont have a problem with hunting rifles.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:46 PM
Feb 2018

Heck, most states limit number of shells they can hold.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
146. Well that is my point
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 10:26 PM
Feb 2018

or at least part of it.

We are allowing a small part of the population to provide cover for the rest of the gun nuts.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
159. I agree. Heck, only about 33% even own a gun. And a lot less own and carry the
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:58 PM
Feb 2018

type weapons that are a problem.

EX500rider

(10,810 posts)
160. "Less than 6% of the USA population went hunting in the past 12 months. That's small"
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:01 AM
Feb 2018

That's about 20 million, not quite a small number.

bpj62

(999 posts)
132. Population Control
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:23 PM
Feb 2018

Some of the comments here are snarky and rude. Hunting has been a tradition in this country since its inception. Do you think the wild turkey that the pilgrims ate at the first Thanksgiving just walked up on the table and died. No it didn't. Deer hunting is a source of food for homeless shelters and it is also a form of population control. We have killed off the natural predators of deer and thier population has exploded. In some states the deer herd is suffering from a disease called Chronic Wasting which Is like AIDS. They have discovered that there is a direct link to overpopulation of the herd. Another issue is crop loss as well automobile accidents. My FIL hunts every.fall on his property. Every deer he kills is processed and given to family members or an organization called Hunters for the Homeless. My freezer is full of deer sausage and deer ground beef. It is low fat and high in protein and
I know exactly where it came from.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
136. Thank you for your thoughtful response.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 08:49 PM
Feb 2018

I really appreciate knowing what's in my freezer, where it came from, that it died as easily as possible and that we cut and wrapped it ourselves. Hunting seems to polarize people much like abortion does. If you don't like hunting, don't hunt, but demeaning fair chase hunters as a rule is a mistake and it will alienate people we need on our side on the gun control issue.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
138. And most deer don't die of old age.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:00 PM
Feb 2018

Lately some have been getting CWD, but most of the time they are either eaten by a predator - wolves, bears, cougars - or they starve to death. Cougars kill quickly with a bite to the neck, but wolves and bears don't. Being shot by a hunter is probably a whole lot more merciful than being torn up by a wolf pack. Nature usually isn't very nice. Somebody is always eating somebody else.

Kaleva

(36,262 posts)
142. It's all out war in the wild or even the lawn
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:09 PM
Feb 2018

Everywhere one looks there is a struggle for survival as species fight to ensure the continued survival of their own. This goes on with vegetation, insects, birds, mammals, amphibians and every other living thing. While one may sit within the shade provided by a majestic oak tree one hot summer day, all around is open warfare. Even that tree had to fight and continue to fight to survive.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
143. Black walnut trees are particularly vicious.
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 09:12 PM
Feb 2018

My next-door neighbor has one and it killed my tomatoes and a crabapple tree.

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
151. Not being argumentative
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:34 PM
Feb 2018

I’ll try to politely explain. I hunt deer and every year I kill 4 or 5 does. The limit is 3 does a day. That’s how bad the over population is where I live. We get 3 or 4 guys together and butcher it ourselves. The only thing we don’t do is making the ground part. We have a local guy who will grind one for $60. That’s most of the meat my family eats.

This is a rural area. I grew up in a farming area and moved. I’ve lived in urban and suburban areas for 20 plus years and moved back to the country. It’s poor here, the average combined family income is $30,000. Guys will work 3rd shift slinging steel and then go jump on a tractor for a couple hours. Union Dems in a right to work state.


A lot of us hunt with rifles and shotguns that were handed down to us from our fathers or grandfathers. A box of deer ammo is expensive so we make each shot count. When my buddy kills one he calls and we all come over to help.

Sometimes I think it be nice if everyone had to live a few months in the other persons shoes. I include myself in that.

-1B

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
158. Hunting like that, without AR15s and similar, is OK by me. Stocking up
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:55 PM
Feb 2018

on semi-auto rifles, ammo, magazines, carrying pistols, waving confederate flags, and worse is not OK. And you know there are a lot of fools like that in rural areas, and even cities.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
167. Well, Im Southern too and you and I know a lot of gunners are like that.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:48 AM
Feb 2018

That’s where I have an issue.

Skittles

(153,122 posts)
152. they enjoy killing
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:42 PM
Feb 2018

they NEVER admit it - they're always hunting for, oh, food, or to control the animal population or whatever....they will never say they like to kill and even look forward to it

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
165. My spouse and son hunt
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:36 AM
Feb 2018

and we are fortunate to have really good meat in the freezer as a result. Sometimes they’re successful sometimes they aren’t. When we’ve got more than we need, it goes to family members who are happy to share with us. Neither of them look forward to killing the animal...it’s much bigger than that. It’s the experience of being outdoors, respecting the resource, knowing where your food comes from and providing for yourself. We grow a garden and raise our own chickens and that’s part of it too. We don’t buy meat from the store.

MontanaMama

(23,296 posts)
174. Yes they do. Happy now?
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:52 AM
Feb 2018

But the actual killing of the animal isn’t the highlight, for lack of a better word before I’ve had my coffee. I just asked my husband what he values most about it and he said there’s a million reasons why he hunts. The first and foremost is a successful hunt provides meat for our family for a year that’s healthy, free of whatever critters are given on factory farms and knowing that the animal had a good life unlike anything that comes home from a supermarket neatly wrapped in cellophane. He also says that killing is the worst part of the whole thing and he always feels remorse when it’s done. The second, in his opinion, is teaching our child that he can provide for himself and the understanding of where his food comes from. There’s sacrifice involved and when an animal dies for food and if we’re going to eat meat, we believe that owning a place in the process is important. Some on this thread agree and some don’t and I find the emotion about it really interesting.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
173. Having hunting family members, I don't doubt there is some satisfaction in using a skill.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 11:19 AM
Feb 2018

I've mentioned my second cousin. Our grandparents diverged by mine moving to the city, hers stayed in the farming/rural community. She's a grandma now, and still goes out every year.

She prefers archery because it does require more skill to get a clean kill. And yes, she posts when she gets what could be considered "trophy bucks" by bow.

But absolutely NO one sane enjoys the event of "shit, not a clean hit, now we have to track and put this suffering animal out of its misery". Which they would if it was a sadistic thing. They'd rather miss completely. Not for laziness -- but because ethical people who kill animals don't want more suffering for the animals than absolutely necessary to accomplish their goal. A single shot drop not just indicates skill, which people can feel a sense of pride for exercising, but also that the deer doesn't suffer long (at the worst a throat slice ends their pain).

And yes, this is the same side of the family where talk of castrating feeder calves has come up at Thanksgiving. I was against it if you were isolated enough from cows in estrus as the calves in the sustainable living collective where I raised two and they didn't get extremely onery before they got to weight. The relatives said they had too many and a good vet, though they did agree about dehorning being unnecessary for calves expected to be beef in a year.

Perhaps people who have raised meat are less distanced from the reality of meat, egg, and milk production.

But I see far less ethical issues with a hunter who follows all laws (especially here the CWD management regulations) and eat the deer they kill (unless harvested from the CWD zone and tests showed positive) than I do with commercial poultry operations. If nothing else, when you can smell the damn houses from a mile away, you know those animals are living a "life" that's horrible. Even if domesticated breeds can't realistically live wild, you can give them better lives, and deaths, than that.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
188. From the use of skill to kill, or just killing?
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:28 PM
Feb 2018

I don't think the latter is true or there'd be more excitement about slaughtering time.

I prefer to use my shooting skills with a camera. But it doesn't put meat in the freezer.

Skittles

(153,122 posts)
189. back to the food, and the population control, and "do you eat meat"
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:30 PM
Feb 2018

I'm not for banning hunting or anything like that but I prefer not to be around people who enjoy killing

over and out

moriah

(8,311 posts)
190. I was actually trying to explore motivations, but your call.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:39 PM
Feb 2018

You can get almost everything out of the "deer camp experience" shooting with a camera, except meat. Because it probably takes at least as much skill to capture a beautiful shot of Bambi on film. Maybe some photography classes in schools rather than gun classes?

As for me, I'd be fine with national magazine limits for semi-automatic long guns to match Oregon and Maine's 5 round limit, and 8-10 for handguns. If you need more than five bullets to kill a deer, you have no skill and/or are just too damn lazy to reload. And the person I know who did use a firearm for self-defense only got center of mass with her first shot from the .22, the other four bullets were two misses and one in each arm.

cvoogt

(949 posts)
157. Those who hunt AND eat what they kill
Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:54 PM
Feb 2018

I am not a hunter, but lots of people care about hunting and I see nothing wrong with that. In some ways those who hunt (and eat what they kill) are being more honest about what they consume than those who buy meat in the store and never stop to think where that meat came from. At least the animal killed cleanly in the wild led a decent life, and wasn't killed on a factory farm.

I think any sort of ban should start by banning AR-15s. I see no issue with hunting rifles other than requiring stricter mental health screening and backgrounds checks. Machine guns are already illegal. Six-shooters are everywhere but same as hunting rifles should come with stricter background checks / mental health screening. I'd love to ban those too, but let's be realistic; I think a more politically palatable approach would be to make biometric ID (i.e. fingerprint activation) mandatory on new weapons; it won't stop suicides but can prevent a lot of accidents. AR-15s are the biggest problem in terms of school shootings, and it's really flared up since the AWB was overturned in 2004. Reinstating that would be a good start.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
169. Good ideas. Most gunners are opposed to biometric IDs or other safety activation systems, thinking
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:54 AM
Feb 2018

it might impede killing some scary guy like skinny, unarmed Trayvon Martin. Truth is that gunners don’t care about some child getting their gun, shooting an innocent person, mass shooting, etc., if it impedes their need for and access to guns.

cvoogt

(949 posts)
191. even the tiniest impediment
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:44 PM
Feb 2018

elicits screams of "you're trampling on the 2nd Amendment!". I know. But my new smartphone's iris and fingerprint scanners are sooo easy to use... I don't see how such technology's much of an impediment. I see no excuse anymore; this technology's pretty well-tested now.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
163. I would never hunt but I understand why others do it.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:17 AM
Feb 2018

I have relatives in North Dakota and they need guns to deal with coyotes and other predators. They own land where they raise elk and hunters can go and hunt them for a fee. Yeah it is odd that they need guns to keep predators from killing the elk so humans can go and kill them instead but that is what they use their guns for. They hunt for food and sport too. Their living room is filled with mounted animal heads.

I think this is a topic where there really is a big rural/urban divide. I am a city slicker and I really don't get the big emphasis on guns except maybe for home protection but I have read that it is more likely that a gun used to stop bad guys will be used for suicide or accidentally shooting somebody.

But I can definitely see why rural people like guns. I think there are more practical uses for guns for rural people than urban and suburban people. Hunting is one use. Another is sport shooting which is another thing I have zero interest in but many other people love.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
175. Some people really love it
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 12:44 PM
Feb 2018

Primarily male people. Some male bonding ritual as they hang around behind the blinds or in the boat. My nephews hunt all season. Their dad got them into it. So I know how much they really just love it. Not particularly understanding of it, but they do really love it. They take the results to a special butcher and I think a lot of it goes to a food program for the poor. They keep a lot of it. One of them had his roommate willing to cook deer - venison - soup too. They make jerky too.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
182. I guess if you have hunted you might be able to see the answer clearer. Among many things
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 01:13 PM
Feb 2018

hunters and the licenses/tags issued are used to control herd sizes (as for deer), hunters are one of the biggest groups that advocate for public lands remaining in the hands of the public as well as environmental protections of wetlands. This is same path of logic that vegans want to take to ban all meat sales. Not going to happen and not supported by a majority of americans.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
186. Allowing hunting rifles and shotguns takes care of the hunting argument.
Sat Feb 17, 2018, 05:18 PM
Feb 2018

I would also allow highly controlled revolving pistols, mainly for those who do like to shoot for competition and sport.

Otherwise I see no need for anything else beyond these three categories.

I would also license the living shit outta the purchasing of ammunition.

Also, I would raise the purchase age of firearms and ammunition to 21. Sales of ammunition below 21 would need a guardian adult licensee’s signature.

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