I, Stinky The Clown, propose a total and complete ban on . . . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

. . . . . "She Ran A Bad Campaign"

It

Was

Fucking

Stolen.

[herding cats]

1. Im with you!

The election was stolen from her and all of us. 😡

[Cha]

6. Yes, and Hillary knows that,

herding.. it was stolen from all of us who cared about the Planet and our country.

[herding cats]

13. Yes, she does and Ive known this for some time, too. A lot of us have, as you know.

It actually feels good to have some validation to what we believed finally.

Not that I’m not still angry, I’m bloody pissed! I’m just focusing on what we can do at this point and waiting for Mueller’s next shoe to drop. I just keep hoping one lands squarely on trumps head with the force of a thousand falling elephants!

[Cha]

20. It's surreal to have Validation

for what we've known for a long time, but there was no concrete proof

Pinch me.. am I dreaming!

Mahalo, herding cats

[herding cats]

31. Mahalo, Cha! The more I read of the indictment today the more vindicated I felt!

Someplace around here is a post of mine when DU came back up after the elections where I was saying this went way beyond anything believable. This election was stolen by Putin & Trump and it was facilitated by RW agents in the FBI. I still believe that.

[Cha]

41. We were all in Extreme Shock

on "election" night.. not even able to wrap our heads around it.. and it was stolen from us.. no punishment enough for those involved.

Good on you for posting that, herding..

Yes the rw agents in the FBI, too.. wonder how they like him now?

[herding cats]

43. I think about those RW FBI agents from time to time...

I’m hoping they’re miserable watching the perpetual defaming of their agency by Trump.

They wanted to dirty up Hillary (who I think they expected to win) to lessen her effectiveness as the president. Instead they helped aid in the election of Trump, who despises them with the fire of a thousand suns. Funny how that worked out for them. 🤔

[Cha]

44. Spot on! Be careful what shite you start to

further your own agenda.. You might get the ol Law of Unintended Consequences Blown Back in your Face.

[guruoo]

105. Indeed. nt

[Hortensis]

80. NOT so sure they EXPECTED her to win toward the end when

they continued their interference in the election. I believe the events through the entire campaign showed FBI activists were content to allow Russia to help them transfer power to conservative hands, though early on they probably were hoping to influence congress and state races.

But later on, the FBI knew a great deal about covert right wing American and Russian actions that the media and Clinton campaign did not. They knew right wing and Russian propaganda had taken over social media, and they knew why the polls were beginning wild swings from day to day.

Who would be elected president became much less certain. Everything was uncertain -- except for whatever motives lead the FBI to interfere on behalf of Repubs and their funders.

October 28, eleven days before the election, Comey reopened the email investigation.

November 1, five days before the election, the FBI released documents on their closed, 15-year-old investigation on Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

November 6, two days before the election, Comey says, oh hey, nothing new found.

[Wwcd]

36. Still with Her forever

[Cha]

42. More than Evar!

Wwcd

[Hermit-The-Prog]

17. absolutely

In spite of decades of a vicious propaganda machine, in spite of an MSM that virtually conspired with that propaganda machine, in spite of gerrymandering, in spite of voter suppression, in spite of Russian covert interference (including likely manipulation of voter rolls to feed the voter purges and turning away of voters),

she STILL won the damned vote!

[Cha]

21. "..she STILL won the damned vote!"

Excellent points, Hermit.. Mahalo!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

45. Mahalo!

I had to look that up. Inferred that it meant "thanks" from your usage elsewhere, but discovered there's a whole bucketful of meanings depending on context, especially with other words that I also don't know.

Add to the list: in spite of Charlie Rose and Matt Lauer.

My daughter was originally going to vote for Jill Stein because "where there's smoke, there's fire" about Hillary. One of her twenty-something friends actually believed Hillary is a war-monger. Those beliefs didn't come from "a bad campaign".

My response, in part:

Sometimes where there's a lot of smoke it's because of a smokescreen somebody puts up because they don't want you to get a clear view of reality. They wouldn't invest that much time, effort and vile unless they were scared to death of what Hillary could accomplish. A war-monger Secretary of State couldn't put out so many little wildfires as she did around the world.

They both voted for Hillary Clinton.

I thought her campaign was brilliant. My son asked me about when she started going into states the pundits thought were out of reach. I told him my best guess was that she was trying to widen her coattails so there'd be some more friendly faces in Congress. If she won but still had the same Congress, she'd face the same obstacles thrown against Obama all those years.

Take away the illegal meddling and possibly illegal voter suppression, but leave in the legitimate propaganda machine, and she would have won by a landslide.

Sorry for the long-windedness but I still get fired up over the President we *should* have right now. Been waiting over 40 years, so the theft stings, as I'm sure it does for, oh, maybe a -few- million others. Too many kids don't even know what a good politician is because they've seen so many bad ones in action.

[Cha]

56. Thank you for your post.. I loved

every word!

Good on you, talking your daughter and her friend down, with the facts on Hillary and some common sense.

Stein was lying about Hillary and she talked a lot of suckers into voting for her. if she hadn't told lies.. Hillary would have had more votes in Michigan, etc etc.

Yes, you're in good company, Hermit.. we were crushed all over the World. And, now we know for sure that it was stolen was us.

The question now is.. what will be done about it? I'm hoping for the best possible outcome!

To me.. Mahalo means a Thank you in Hawaiian.. such a beautiful word!

[sharedvalues]

29. And VA and AL Senate and gov races showed huge progressive turnout. Optimism.

This is a Democratic-majority country. It's just that our turnout has been low. That will be fixed with a vengeance in 2018.

[TomSlick]

2. I second.

[Cha]

3. Those with an agenda

were pounding on that ignorant meme.

[Blue Owl]

4. Abso-fucking-lutely

I agree 100%

[msdogi]

5. Yes!

[Skittles]

7. hard to believe how many DUers fell for that fucking nonsense

[Ohiogal]

8. I never believed

that "she ran a bad campaign" bullshit for one second.

Or "she was a flawed candidate" .... And Dump was flaw-free?

"She wasn't trustworthy.". And Dump was honest???

"She wasn't likeable" .... And Dump is Mr. Charm???

Fuck them all.

[bettyellen]

26. All this!!

[uponit7771]

32. +1

[Blecht]

9. Of course it was fucking stolen. nt

[R B Garr]

10. Amen!

Exactly right.

[mcar]

11. +1000!

[mainstreetonce]

12. Great post

Such a shame

[gademocrat7]

14. Totally agree.

Chump is an illegitimate president.

[CountAllVotes]

40. +1,000

dump needs to resign!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

75. haul him out in cuffs

[lpbk2713]

15. It was inconceivable HRC could be beaten by a total loser like Trump.

I believed it then and I believe it now.

[HipChick]

16. Exactly..

[Tribalceltic]

18. Kick and Recomend and Thank you!

[LisaM]

19. Best post of the day!

It's insane. Right in front of our eyes.

[ailsagirl]

22. Exactly-- plain as can be

[ismnotwasm]

23. K&R

[ProudProgressiveNow]

24. K&R nt

[BigmanPigman]

25. The last conversation I had with an old friend in Boston,

a Dem, said that. I got so pissed off! She didn't go to so and so states, she didn't listen to,her people, etc. BS! Watch the debates, read her book, look at the evidence, time lines etc. Comey was the nail in her coffin.

This is unprecedented in our history...so how the Hell can we right this wrong? Especially given the fact that the GOP runs all 3 branches and the SCOTUS is tainted (thanks to Russian complicit and taker of their $ McConnell) for 30 years.

Hillary will never be the rightful heir to the position of POTUS. She should be but she won't.

[sharedvalues]

28. What about the Senate???? Also influenced by the Russians. Gorsuch: illegitimate.

[BigmanPigman]

38. That's what I said...both are guilty and fraudulent!

McConnell should be kicked out and the SCOTUS vote should be nullified!

[DFW]

81. Gorsuch is an obscenity

My opinion is that McConnell would never come up with the idea to deny Garland his seat on the Court if he hadn't been in touch with someone (someone whose real name is spelled in Cyrillic) who told him a year in advance what to expect.

I am against the death penalty, but I'd make an exception in this case. McConnell should be tried for treason against the United States and be given a firing squad after conviction, and then be buried in an unmarked grave in a cheap pine box somewhere. He is so foul, I doubt even the maggots would want him.

[sharedvalues]

27. Not just the presidency. Also the Senate was stolen.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210244266

[democratisphere]

30. Bring on the Constitutional Crisis and let's see where it goes!

[Wednesdays]

76. It all will come down to which side does the military support?

With the most powerful armed forces in the history of the world, it'd be game-set-match in favor of whoever or whatever they decide to champion.

[MustLoveBeagles]

33. This + 1,000,000

[CatMor]

34. Yes, it was stolen....

It was a good campaign and she won. I will never consider trump my president.

[Demsrule86]

35. I second that...the election was stolen.

[mwooldri]

37. I thought you were going to ban Republicans.

Though i suspect that you, Stinky the Clown, would probably support such a ban.

[GusBob]

39. OK I hope I don't get crucified for asking some questions

In August of 2016 these allegations of Russian meddling in the election came to light.

At that time both candidates received security briefings which is customary for potential future presidents.

It has been reported that the allegations and evidence of Russian meddling in the election was presented in these briefings. Trump was scornful and skeptical of the allegations ( what else would a guilty party be)

I assume that the Clinton campaign received the same information. Obama for sure hit her with the clue stick

My honest questions: what did they do with regards to these disclosures?

And, god help me, to the point of the OP: shoulda-woulda-coulda they done more? She knew it was trying to be stolen?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

48. consider Mueller

Think how long it has taken Mueller's team to get to the point they could get these indictments. There wasn't enough concrete evidence to act on back then.

Remember, too, that the RWNJ had already seeded the conspiracy theory that Obama would declare martial law and prohibit elections before his term ended. There would have been some nasty times if anything was done with only non-public intel to base it on.

[GusBob]

54. Right, but also wrong

They couldn't do anything publicly I get that. Everyone every time brings up the political ramifications on this matter if they acted out loud. You're right

But they had the evidence. According to the Washington Post it was easy to connect the dots. Obama tried to warn the state election officials but they blew him off. They found out in August and by September they were acting.

Forget Obama, forget Mueller. If the Clinton campaign knew the Russians were trying to influence the elections in key states to steal the campaign should they have acted differently?

You can't say "Don't blame the Clinton campaign because the election was stolen" if they knew the election was trying to be stolen!

[Honeycombe8]

50. These are the kinds of questions that are legitimate to ask & discuss.

I don't think there should be outright banning of discussions of prior campaigns. Opinions are opinions. And discussions about campaigns are helpful for future and current campaigns.

As for HRC's campaign, I doubt they knew the extent of the Russian activity, or what exactly they were doing. Trump knew more than HRC, of course, since his team was involved. I'm not sure how much Obama knew, although he knew more than HRC. I doubt he told her specifics. He may have told her things in general. But he's pretty ethical, so he wouldn't have been allowed to tell her some information. And HE didn't know what Trump knew, even. The FBI didn't know at the time, either.

This explains her mentioning "Russian Puppet" in a debate, so she knew something was up. But who could have guessed the extent of it, and that Trump's team was actively working with a foreign country?

Remember, her poll numbers were really good, and had consistently been good. No reason for her to think she wouldn't win. Until the end.

[GusBob]

59. Fair enough

That's another thing that comes up in this debate: to paraphrase 'everybody thought she would win so nobody thought the Russian thing would matter' Obama himself thought that.Big mistake that future campaigns must not make

That alone proves your point: nobody had any idea of the depth, breadth or consequences of the Russian meddling. Maybe not even Trump.

But still, if crooks are trying to break into your house, you got to get your guard dogs out.

[dalton99a]

46. It was Hillary vs. The GOP and Russia.

[MustLoveBeagles]

104. Don't forget the so called liberal media

[Hermit-The-Prog]

47. Thank you Stinky The Clown

[Honeycombe8]

49. Too broad.

It's legitimate and helpful to discuss all prior campaigns and give opinions on what would have been better, what was done right, etc., for the benefit of current and future campaigns.

It's normal discourse for discussing campaigns. This is a political forum, after all. How can you write about politics fully if you're not allowed to discuss anything wrong with a campaign?

I say this as a Hillary voter.

[NastyRiffraff]

51. ALL campaigns do something wrong

There is no such thing as a perfect campaign. It's irrelevant to the discussion here, which was that the election was clearly stolen. Hillary could have run the FIRST EVER perfect campaign on earth and the result would have been the same.

Today, we have proof at last. Many of us knew it; today we are vindicated, and so is Hillary and her campaign.

Thank you, Robert Mueller and your team. As Rachel said tonight (paraphrasing): FINALLY, someone is standing up for us. Finally.

[Honeycombe8]

53. Two separate things.

Yes, it was stolen. End of THAT discussion.

But to ban discussions of things that campaigns have done wrong? That's not helpful. And things are done wrong when the people win nonetheless.

Hypothetical of a discussion: "Hillary didn't go to Michigan...she should've made one run out there. Future candidates should do that."
(That does NOT mean that that caused her to lose. It's discussing a mistake that was possibly made.)

That's how I see it.

Maybe "no more references to HRC losing the election." Rather than no more discussion of mistakes her campaign team made. Two different things.

Like I said....it's too broad.

I thought from the start, on election night, that something was wrong. And said so (not in this forum). So I agree that the election was stolen.

[NastyRiffraff]

55. Who exactly is "banning" discussions?

I've seen ARGUMENTS when campaigns are criticized, which is entirely legitimate. You have a perfect right to gripe about how someone runs a campaign, and I have a right to say you are wrong. That's not banning, that's having, as you say, a "discussion." That's what a discussion IS.

[Honeycombe8]

57. That's what this thread is about.

Did you read the OP?

[Stinky The Clown]

61. Clearly, you did NOT read the OP.

Tongue in cheek, it calls for no more saying she ran a shitty campaign. As to discussion, you're free to discuss whoever and whatever the fuck you wanna.

However, people like me may not engage with you. That could make it kinda like clapping with one hand.

Have fun!

[BlueMTexpat]

79. Good reply, Stinky! :)

[NastyRiffraff]

86. Good reply, Stinky

My mistake was trying to engage with this person which was a waste of my time. It won't happen again!

[Honeycombe8]

94. I did. As did many of the others responding.

Chill. No need to cuss at your fellow posters who took the time to read, rec, and respond to your post. (you're welcome.)

People like I am may not engage with you, however. That would be like clapping with one hand, drinking with one lip, speaking out of one side of your mouth.

Have fun!

[Jim Lane]

97. That it was intended as tongue in cheek went over my head.

I honestly read it as confusing two different issues -- whether Clinton made mistakes that we can learn from, and whether there were adverse factors that were beyond her control.

The 2000 election is a clearer case. We have much more solid information about that election to establish that illegitimate factors swung the result -- the Harris voter purge, the butterfly ballot, the Brooks Brothers riot, the SCOTUS decision, etc. I don't have anywhere near the same level of confidence that Russian involvement swung the result in 2016. In fact, among illegitimate factors in 2016, I'd put Republican voter suppression well ahead of anything the Russians did. The point is that, despite the theft of the 2000 election, it's still perfectly appropriate to look at the Gore campaign and ask how it could have been improved.

[NastyRiffraff]

87. I didn't know Stinky the Clown had that much power!

He PROPOSED a ban and you think it's thereby banned? Okay. Maybe he should be Stinky the King to you?

[Stinky The Clown]

89. To clarify further, the OP was in part a riff on this shit:

[MFM008]

52. I MFM

Totally agree with your declaration.

STOLEN.

[BadgerMom]

60. I knew it election night.

I knew the next morning despite my hangover. I’ve known it every morning since as I open my eyes and grab my phone to see if there’s any movement toward expelling this poison from the body politic. This was a good morning. I look forward to more.

[mountain grammy]

62. Yes, it was.

We. Did. Not. Lose. the. 2016. Election. I'll believe that until my dying day.

[dlk]

63. Thank You for This Thread

Our country lost a wonderful opportunity

[LW1977]

64. K&R

[aikoaiko]

65. Nope.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

66. Bullshit. You don't get to ban anything. Sorry to tell you.

[Stinky The Clown]

68. See reply 61

Bullshit back atcha, pallie.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

70. Nah. No thanks.

[Stinky The Clown]

91. Just to help you along in your seeming inability to "get it", the OP was a riff on this:

From the boy who the HRC haters helped elect, do you recall this oft-repeated meme from himself? I do.

Humor is better than anger sometimes, but you live your life as you wish.

Have a swell day and bless your heart.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

96. Nah, no thanks. I just ate.

[Stinky The Clown]

99. Dood, I'm worried about you

All this anger. Not healthy, particularly if you just ate. You gotta learn to pick your little spats and then let go of shit. I mean, you even followed me to another thread and copped this same attitude.

Don't want you strokin' out on us, mmkay?

Now run along and bother someone else.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

101. Not sure what you are on about.

[Stinky The Clown]

102. Yes you are. Your history with me goes back a decade or more.

when we worked on the same tasks in support of DU.

You haven't changed.

But For now, I am done with you. Post away as you wish. I appreciate the thread kicks.

And really, I hope you can find some inner peace and let this go.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

103. Your name seems familiar. I'm sure I've seen you around.

Am I supposed to know you?

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

100. Humor indeed !

[spanone]

67. I Second That!

because...

It

WAS

Fucking

Stolen.

[Codeine]

69. I dont always agree with Stinky the Clown,

but when I do it’s because he’s right the fuck on target.

[malaise]

71. Yep

I said from day one - history will absolve me - they stole it.

[VOX]

72. Goddamned right it was stolen. Rs will do ANYTHING to hold power.

[lunamagica]

73. Absolutely! I'm with you a 100%

[Hekate]

74. I'll sign that. Hillary won, and the election was stolen. We were mugged.

[Stardust1]

77. Congrats Trump!

You won! Your prize is you get to be remembered by history as one of Americas biggest embarrassments. May you quickly be forgotten!

[BlueMTexpat]

78. I wondered when

every time I googled "Hillary Clinton" in 2016, there were thousands of links to lies or debunked stories before one could find anything that was even remotely accurate.

On Election Night, when DU was hacked for the first time ever, I was certain that there was something going on even beyond the usual GOPer cheating.

When I watched the election results in disbelief, in company with other US expats and Swiss & French nationals, I was also sure that we had a stolen election on our hands.

Hillary did everything that she could have in the circumstances. Anyone who says anything else is certainly no Democrat and no one that I want anything to do with. Period.

Which is why there is still a LOT of commentary that I don't see on DU. I have an immense "Iggy" list left over from the 2016 campaign and have added since then.

[MoonRiver]

82. +1000

and, , to her naysayers.

[Progressive dog]

83. It was stolen and the

same criminals are working to steal the next one.

[Perseus]

84. I have never been one to believe that, but nonetheless

you have my support...

I have always believed what, I hope, we will find out in detail, that all races were stolen to favour the GOP, all of them.

[murielm99]

85. YES!!

She did not run a bad campaign. She and her staff worked their butts off. They did everything they could.

And I have no use for people who say they held their nose to vote for her, or that she was a flawed candidate. Look at what we have. Just look at it.

[onecent]

88. I don't belieive this could ever happen, but at least she would hired people

she knows are right for the job....

God what a NICE DREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Motownman78]

90. No

She did run a bad campaign. Any other politician in the history of our country would have been destroyed by the Access Hollywood tape.

Though now the new belief between Pundits is that 2016 was another "change" election. Just like 2008 was a "change" election.

[Stinky The Clown]

92. Ya know . . . . .

. . . . I'll bet a lotta money (cuz I'm REALLY rich) that your view would play better someplace else.

Odd that you still don't think the election was stolen.

Sad.

[SCantiGOP]

93. Stinky:

If this were a craps table at a casino, I would put a bet down on your square

[Jakes Progress]

95. Agree. But it won't make a difference

to the people who were stupid enough to think that to begin with.

First, they are stupid.

Second, they are intellectually incapable of admitting they were duped.

[Nitram]

98. Agree!