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fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:08 PM Feb 2018

IF we can secure our airports, we can secure our schools

While the TSA gets a bad rap, they have done an excellent job of keeping our airports safe.

Maybe we should look at expanding the TSA to protect our nations schools. STSA?

Expensive? I'm sure. But nothing that a tax on guns and bullets wouldn't solve and our kids are worth it.

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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IF we can secure our airports, we can secure our schools (Original Post) fescuerescue Feb 2018 OP
Do you want your kids going to school in an armed camp? The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #1
Well TSA isn't armed. The usually have a pair of cops nearby though fescuerescue Feb 2018 #5
Fuck the TSA and fuck security theater. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #2
Turn every public building in to an Armed Fort. maxsolomon Feb 2018 #3
TSA isn't armed. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #6
Their job is just screening passengers. All airports also have The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #24
exactly correct fescuerescue Feb 2018 #26
Schools are not the only locations where mass shootings have occurred. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #32
I hope not fescuerescue Feb 2018 #34
It's also easy to use that as an excuse to avoid the inconvenient LanternWaste Feb 2018 #63
It'd be very easy to mass murder a lot of people at an airport. Ever looked at the check-in areas? uppityperson Feb 2018 #4
Bingo! Our airports are not secure. As you point out, plenty of killing stopbush Feb 2018 #38
The TSA does a good job of keeping AIRPLANES safe. n/t rzemanfl Feb 2018 #7
Not really. They do a mediocre job of screening passengers The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #28
I could have phrased that better or said more. rzemanfl Feb 2018 #33
The TSA keeps airports safe? Iggo Feb 2018 #8
I'm not aware of any mass shootings inside the secure area fescuerescue Feb 2018 #9
They've been lucky. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #12
Fort Lauderdale airport shooting oberliner Feb 2018 #13
That wasn't inside the secure area fescuerescue Feb 2018 #17
How big of a perimeter around the school are we talking about? oberliner Feb 2018 #30
Let the data decide fescuerescue Feb 2018 #31
How did the TSA do this excellent job of preventing mass shootings in airports? Iggo Feb 2018 #14
There weren't mass shootings in gate areas previously either jberryhill Feb 2018 #62
We can better secure EVERYONE with strong gun legislation. n/t pnwmom Feb 2018 #10
This is meant as parody/satire I'm assuming oberliner Feb 2018 #11
Not at all. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #15
If you love our kids, you won't subject them to this oberliner Feb 2018 #19
I take mine to the airport all the time fescuerescue Feb 2018 #22
You are talking about pat downs, metal detectors, bag searches for every single kid every single day oberliner Feb 2018 #25
As I said above, their performance is mediocre at best. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #29
. WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #18
I can't keep track of what is serious and what isn't oberliner Feb 2018 #20
LOL. Dave Starsky Feb 2018 #27
There's no shootings at Supermax Prisons! Maybe we should have Kindergarten there. FSogol Feb 2018 #16
Reading through the insta-responses here and elsewhere... fescuerescue Feb 2018 #21
Your suggestion was ridiculous. Hence the ridicule. Iggo Feb 2018 #39
OH I don't care about ridicule on the Internet fescuerescue Feb 2018 #45
Why not take the guns from those who shouldn't have them? Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #43
I agree. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #46
Republicans mostly. Time to vote on this issue.Another reason to vote a straight Democratic ticket. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #61
They really haven't... Baconator Feb 2018 #23
Everyone should wear full body bulletproof suits. nt LexVegas Feb 2018 #35
An app for that? kurtcagle Feb 2018 #36
Why should we live in fear so gun humpers can have their guns? Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #42
Because gun humping is the most sacred right in our entire society. Crunchy Frog Feb 2018 #49
Yeah that seems to be what these folks think. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #60
What is necessary is to change the gun laws... Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #44
And how exactly would this be funded? crazycatlady Feb 2018 #37
The same way we fund anything fescuerescue Feb 2018 #48
A number of urban schools already screen students MineralMan Feb 2018 #40
How many school shootings have we had inside schools that do this? fescuerescue Feb 2018 #47
I don't know. I just looked for schools that MineralMan Feb 2018 #65
Absolutely not. I don't want to turn our schools into such a thing...we take the guns Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #41
CHILDREN. They are CHILDREN. And now we are going to pat them down to learn . . . . Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #50
Id rather they walk through a metal detector fescuerescue Feb 2018 #51
You have NO FUCKING CLUE what I'm okay with. Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #53
Oh I have a pretty good idea fescuerescue Feb 2018 #54
Who the fuck are YOU? Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #55
I'm someone who cares about the kids. fescuerescue Feb 2018 #56
No. Just NO. shanny Feb 2018 #52
No offense, but this may be the single worst idea possible in response to gun violence hueymahl Feb 2018 #57
That's fine. clearly the idea isn't popular fescuerescue Feb 2018 #58
Beyond stupid jberryhill Feb 2018 #59
Be sure to arrive at school at least two hours before your first class. JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2018 #64

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,616 posts)
1. Do you want your kids going to school in an armed camp?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:13 PM
Feb 2018

BTW, the TSA really isn't very good; they've just been lucky. They let guns on airplanes all the time and have an 80% failure rate: http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 So do you really want to rely on them? And even if they were more effective, who wants to attend school in a place where you have to go through a metal detector and have your bags checked and get patted down, and there are armed cops or soldiers everywhere? And the mass shootings aren't limited to schools - so do we have to turn movie theatres, shopping centers, churches and music festivals into fortresses, too?

Nope. The problem is too damn many guns. Get rid of the AR-15s and weapons like them.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
5. Well TSA isn't armed. The usually have a pair of cops nearby though
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:23 PM
Feb 2018

But Schools today have resource officers which are basically just cops on loan.

I'm not exactly in love with the idea. I just don't see anything changing on the gun front in our generation.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,616 posts)
24. Their job is just screening passengers. All airports also have
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:35 PM
Feb 2018

armed police officers, and many airplanes have armed federal air marshals and/or armed pilots on board. TSA is not responsible for anything but keeping passengers from bringing guns and other prohibited items into the secure area of the airport. They don't even protect the actual airplanes.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
26. exactly correct
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:36 PM
Feb 2018

Most schools already have armed police officers (called resource officers in many districts)

This isn't about policing the kids. It's about keeping guns out of schools.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,616 posts)
32. Schools are not the only locations where mass shootings have occurred.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:41 PM
Feb 2018

What about shopping malls, churches, movie theatres, music festivals, night clubs and other public spaces where shootings have occurred? Are we going to have TSA-type personnel screening everybody who goes anywhere?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
34. I hope not
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:45 PM
Feb 2018

It's easy to let perfection be the enemy of good.

So far, our answer has been candle light vigils and tough talk on internet chat boards.

I don't think that solution is working.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
63. It's also easy to use that as an excuse to avoid the inconvenient
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:28 AM
Feb 2018

"It's easy to let perfection be the enemy of good...."

It's also easy to use that as an excuse to avoid the inconvenient, rather than addressing the specific concerns raised.

uppityperson

(115,677 posts)
4. It'd be very easy to mass murder a lot of people at an airport. Ever looked at the check-in areas?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:21 PM
Feb 2018

Having armed guards at every school entrance and all around school grounds perimeter seems not good. Next up would be shooting school buses. Or some other school event.

stopbush

(24,393 posts)
38. Bingo! Our airports are not secure. As you point out, plenty of killing
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:39 PM
Feb 2018

can happen in the check in areas.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,616 posts)
28. Not really. They do a mediocre job of screening passengers
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:37 PM
Feb 2018

to keep them from bringing prohibited items into the secure area of the airport. The airplanes themselves, once they have left the gate, are (possibly) protected by armed FAMs or pilots.

rzemanfl

(29,554 posts)
33. I could have phrased that better or said more.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:41 PM
Feb 2018

The screening areas themselves would be deathtraps. Would a suicide bomber meekly surrender? I think not.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
9. I'm not aware of any mass shootings inside the secure area
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:27 PM
Feb 2018

or highjacking since TSA took over.

If you know of one, feel free to educate me.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
13. Fort Lauderdale airport shooting
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:29 PM
Feb 2018
A mass shooting occurred at Fort Lauderdale–Hollywood International Airport in Broward County, Florida, United States, on January 6, 2017, near the baggage claim in Terminal 2. Five people were killed while six others were injured in the shooting. About 36 people sustained injuries in the ensuing panic. A suspect, Esteban Santiago-Ruiz, was taken into custody after surrendering to responding police officers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lauderdale_airport_shooting

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
17. That wasn't inside the secure area
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:31 PM
Feb 2018

And is outside of TSA control.

In fact baggage claim is totally open and it's legal to have guns there.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
30. How big of a perimeter around the school are we talking about?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:38 PM
Feb 2018

Are we securing the parking lots as well?

We have manned, armed personnel at every entry point of every school for the entire school day plus any after school activities, sporting events and the like?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
31. Let the data decide
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:39 PM
Feb 2018

Just from my memory, these horrible events seem to occur in the classrooms, hallways and cafeterias.

So we should focus on that.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
62. There weren't mass shootings in gate areas previously either
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:38 AM
Feb 2018

The TSA screening is to prevent or deter weapons from being taken onboard the aircraft. As demonstrated in Brussels, the security line itself provides a shooting target.

Mass shootings at airports was not, and is not, the problem that passenger screening was intended to solve.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
15. Not at all.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:30 PM
Feb 2018

Frankly I love our kids more than I hate TSA.

However I'm pretty sure that I know exactly what changes and improvements that will come from this latest shooting.

Absolutely nothing.

Why? Because everyone is too entrenched in their own ideas and biased. That goes for the right as well as the left.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
22. I take mine to the airport all the time
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:34 PM
Feb 2018

Don't listen to the right-wing anti-TSA people.

They (TSA) do a good job.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
25. You are talking about pat downs, metal detectors, bag searches for every single kid every single day
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:36 PM
Feb 2018

Starting - when, first grade?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
21. Reading through the insta-responses here and elsewhere...
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:33 PM
Feb 2018

I'm pretty sure that nothing will change.

And in a short amount of time, we'll have these conversations all over again.

We are all way to convinced how smart we are, to listen to any suggestions at all.

Iggo

(47,537 posts)
39. Your suggestion was ridiculous. Hence the ridicule.
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:46 PM
Feb 2018

The amount of security to make an entire school into something like the "secure area" of an airport would take a ton of manpower and a god-awful shit-ton of money. (There's way way way more schools than there are airports.)

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
45. OH I don't care about ridicule on the Internet
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:01 AM
Feb 2018

That's as common as can be. Lots of people act tough when it's anonymous.

But I do believe that I'm right on this last point. Absolutely nothing will change and children will die and die and die. And then we all repeat our same Internet arguments.

kurtcagle

(1,602 posts)
36. An app for that?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:48 PM
Feb 2018

I like the idea of an attack app for your kid's phones. Press it, the phone is logged, the alarms go off, police are called. Each school has a unique code. If a kid presses it maliciously, they get a STERN talking to by the principal and their parents get tagged with a bill. The alarm goes off, the kids head to the nearest classroom. Put locks on doors. Keep cops within a one mile radius of schools when in session.

It will not stop the shooters, but it will guarantee a more rapid police presence, and it will reduce the number of potential targets.

I also think that it may make sense to have sensor activated doors, both external and internal. Doors will automatically lock if you don't have a button or badge. It won't stop angry students, but the overwhelming majority of school shootings were not done by students (including the most recent). The badges can be reprogrammed, which means that if a student is expelled, they can't use their badge to get back in.

I don't like the fact that we have reached the stage where any of this is necessary, but I think these are relatively inexpensive solutions that can increase security without having to go the whole metal detector route (which I've long felt was ineffective).

Crunchy Frog

(26,578 posts)
49. Because gun humping is the most sacred right in our entire society.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:23 AM
Feb 2018

Everything else in our society must contort itself in order to accommodate the sacred right to hump guns.

The lives of children pale in importance when compared to the right to hump guns.

Demsrule86

(68,504 posts)
60. Yeah that seems to be what these folks think.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:35 AM
Feb 2018

I have always been for gun control. Now it is time to act. My youngest is in college and I always worry about that...worried about it when they were in public school... enough.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
37. And how exactly would this be funded?
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:48 PM
Feb 2018

School budgets are so tight that teachers have to pay for things like pencils out of their pocket. Parents are being asked to supply basic sanitation items such as tissues, cleaning wipes, and toilet paper.

If there's no room for TP in the budget, tell me where there's room for security.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
48. The same way we fund anything
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:07 AM
Feb 2018

Taxpayer money.

Our national budget is $3.9 trillion. There are plenty of smart people who can work with that budget.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
47. How many school shootings have we had inside schools that do this?
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:05 AM
Feb 2018

I ask because I have no idea.

For some reason, it seems that people are ok with inner city schools doing this, but the suggestion that more schools try this (i.e. wealthier schools), provokes strong reactions as you can see in this thread.

Some people even say the idea is ridiculous. I guess they didn't see your links (for that matter I didn't either)

MineralMan

(146,262 posts)
65. I don't know. I just looked for schools that
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:10 AM
Feb 2018

have metal detectors at entry points. I don't even know if anyone has done the research.

Demsrule86

(68,504 posts)
41. Absolutely not. I don't want to turn our schools into such a thing...we take the guns
Mon Feb 19, 2018, 09:08 PM
Feb 2018

from gun humpers who shouldn't have them...I don't want to live in an America that you describe and by God I have rights too...and the filthy purveyors of death ...the NRA can go to hell.

Stinky The Clown

(67,766 posts)
50. CHILDREN. They are CHILDREN. And now we are going to pat them down to learn . . . .
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:40 AM
Feb 2018

. . . . how to read Dick and Jane.

What the fuck are we becoming????

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
51. Id rather they walk through a metal detector
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:52 AM
Feb 2018

Than a rain of bullets.

But everyone seems ok if LA and NYC inner city school kids walk through metal detectors. Why the sudden concern when its middle class kids?

Just wondering.

Stinky The Clown

(67,766 posts)
53. You have NO FUCKING CLUE what I'm okay with.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 01:16 AM
Feb 2018

How DARE you?

You want a solution? I got a solution:

MELT THE FUCKING GUNS.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
52. No. Just NO.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 01:10 AM
Feb 2018

Schools aren't the only places and students aren't the only Americans who deserve to be safe.

It's the guns, not the security.

hueymahl

(2,449 posts)
57. No offense, but this may be the single worst idea possible in response to gun violence
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 01:46 AM
Feb 2018

Tax the fuck out of the guns and bullets, but spend it on mental health services and prison reform. We do not need a bigger police state!

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
58. That's fine. clearly the idea isn't popular
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 01:51 AM
Feb 2018

And it won't go further at least due to my efforts.

It was worth posting however, if only for the fact that I did learn something - This sort of security is actually happening already in NYC and LA (see post above).

It's not something that I've heard about before and certainly I've not heard people getting angry about it, nor have I heard if it was successful. But it does seem to be accepted in certain areas.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
59. Beyond stupid
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:35 AM
Feb 2018

The point of the TSA screening is to attempt to stop people from getting weapons onto airplanes and to deter them from trying to take out or take over an airplane.

Someone seeking to shoot up a bunch of others will do so at the security line, as was done at the Brussels airport, and as would certainly be a good target for a school shooter.
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