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Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:08 PM

IF we can secure our airports, we can secure our schools

While the TSA gets a bad rap, they have done an excellent job of keeping our airports safe.

Maybe we should look at expanding the TSA to protect our nations schools. STSA?

Expensive? I'm sure. But nothing that a tax on guns and bullets wouldn't solve and our kids are worth it.

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Reply IF we can secure our airports, we can secure our schools (Original post)
fescuerescue Feb 2018 OP
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #1
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #5
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #2
maxsolomon Feb 2018 #3
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #6
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #24
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #26
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #32
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #34
LanternWaste Feb 2018 #63
uppityperson Feb 2018 #4
stopbush Feb 2018 #38
rzemanfl Feb 2018 #7
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #28
rzemanfl Feb 2018 #33
Iggo Feb 2018 #8
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #9
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #12
oberliner Feb 2018 #13
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #17
oberliner Feb 2018 #30
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #31
Iggo Feb 2018 #14
jberryhill Feb 2018 #62
pnwmom Feb 2018 #10
oberliner Feb 2018 #11
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #15
oberliner Feb 2018 #19
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #22
oberliner Feb 2018 #25
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #29
LineLineReply .
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #18
oberliner Feb 2018 #20
Dave Starsky Feb 2018 #27
FSogol Feb 2018 #16
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #21
Iggo Feb 2018 #39
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #45
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #43
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #46
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #61
Baconator Feb 2018 #23
LexVegas Feb 2018 #35
kurtcagle Feb 2018 #36
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #42
Crunchy Frog Feb 2018 #49
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #60
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #44
crazycatlady Feb 2018 #37
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #48
MineralMan Feb 2018 #40
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #47
MineralMan Feb 2018 #65
Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #41
Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #50
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #51
Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #53
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #54
Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #55
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #56
shanny Feb 2018 #52
hueymahl Feb 2018 #57
fescuerescue Feb 2018 #58
jberryhill Feb 2018 #59
JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2018 #64

Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:13 PM

1. Do you want your kids going to school in an armed camp?

BTW, the TSA really isn't very good; they've just been lucky. They let guns on airplanes all the time and have an 80% failure rate: http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 So do you really want to rely on them? And even if they were more effective, who wants to attend school in a place where you have to go through a metal detector and have your bags checked and get patted down, and there are armed cops or soldiers everywhere? And the mass shootings aren't limited to schools - so do we have to turn movie theatres, shopping centers, churches and music festivals into fortresses, too?

Nope. The problem is too damn many guns. Get rid of the AR-15s and weapons like them.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:23 PM

5. Well TSA isn't armed. The usually have a pair of cops nearby though

But Schools today have resource officers which are basically just cops on loan.

I'm not exactly in love with the idea. I just don't see anything changing on the gun front in our generation.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:14 PM

2. Fuck the TSA and fuck security theater.

Also, fuck this idea.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:15 PM

3. Turn every public building in to an Armed Fort.

great idea.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:23 PM

6. TSA isn't armed.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:35 PM

24. Their job is just screening passengers. All airports also have

armed police officers, and many airplanes have armed federal air marshals and/or armed pilots on board. TSA is not responsible for anything but keeping passengers from bringing guns and other prohibited items into the secure area of the airport. They don't even protect the actual airplanes.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:36 PM

26. exactly correct

Most schools already have armed police officers (called resource officers in many districts)

This isn't about policing the kids. It's about keeping guns out of schools.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:41 PM

32. Schools are not the only locations where mass shootings have occurred.

What about shopping malls, churches, movie theatres, music festivals, night clubs and other public spaces where shootings have occurred? Are we going to have TSA-type personnel screening everybody who goes anywhere?

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:45 PM

34. I hope not

It's easy to let perfection be the enemy of good.

So far, our answer has been candle light vigils and tough talk on internet chat boards.

I don't think that solution is working.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #34)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:28 AM

63. It's also easy to use that as an excuse to avoid the inconvenient

"It's easy to let perfection be the enemy of good...."

It's also easy to use that as an excuse to avoid the inconvenient, rather than addressing the specific concerns raised.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:21 PM

4. It'd be very easy to mass murder a lot of people at an airport. Ever looked at the check-in areas?

Having armed guards at every school entrance and all around school grounds perimeter seems not good. Next up would be shooting school buses. Or some other school event.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:39 PM

38. Bingo! Our airports are not secure. As you point out, plenty of killing

can happen in the check in areas.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:25 PM

7. The TSA does a good job of keeping AIRPLANES safe. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:37 PM

28. Not really. They do a mediocre job of screening passengers

to keep them from bringing prohibited items into the secure area of the airport. The airplanes themselves, once they have left the gate, are (possibly) protected by armed FAMs or pilots.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:41 PM

33. I could have phrased that better or said more.

The screening areas themselves would be deathtraps. Would a suicide bomber meekly surrender? I think not.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:26 PM

8. The TSA keeps airports safe?

Hmm.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:27 PM

9. I'm not aware of any mass shootings inside the secure area

or highjacking since TSA took over.

If you know of one, feel free to educate me.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:29 PM

12. They've been lucky.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:29 PM

13. Fort Lauderdale airport shooting

 

A mass shooting occurred at Fort Lauderdale–Hollywood International Airport in Broward County, Florida, United States, on January 6, 2017, near the baggage claim in Terminal 2. Five people were killed while six others were injured in the shooting. About 36 people sustained injuries in the ensuing panic. A suspect, Esteban Santiago-Ruiz, was taken into custody after surrendering to responding police officers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lauderdale_airport_shooting

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Response to oberliner (Reply #13)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:31 PM

17. That wasn't inside the secure area

And is outside of TSA control.

In fact baggage claim is totally open and it's legal to have guns there.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #17)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:38 PM

30. How big of a perimeter around the school are we talking about?

 

Are we securing the parking lots as well?

We have manned, armed personnel at every entry point of every school for the entire school day plus any after school activities, sporting events and the like?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #30)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:39 PM

31. Let the data decide

Just from my memory, these horrible events seem to occur in the classrooms, hallways and cafeterias.

So we should focus on that.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:29 PM

14. How did the TSA do this excellent job of preventing mass shootings in airports?

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:38 AM

62. There weren't mass shootings in gate areas previously either


The TSA screening is to prevent or deter weapons from being taken onboard the aircraft. As demonstrated in Brussels, the security line itself provides a shooting target.

Mass shootings at airports was not, and is not, the problem that passenger screening was intended to solve.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:27 PM

10. We can better secure EVERYONE with strong gun legislation. n/t

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:28 PM

11. This is meant as parody/satire I'm assuming

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:30 PM

15. Not at all.

Frankly I love our kids more than I hate TSA.

However I'm pretty sure that I know exactly what changes and improvements that will come from this latest shooting.

Absolutely nothing.

Why? Because everyone is too entrenched in their own ideas and biased. That goes for the right as well as the left.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:32 PM

19. If you love our kids, you won't subject them to this

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #19)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:34 PM

22. I take mine to the airport all the time

Don't listen to the right-wing anti-TSA people.

They (TSA) do a good job.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:36 PM

25. You are talking about pat downs, metal detectors, bag searches for every single kid every single day

 

Starting - when, first grade?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:31 PM

18. .

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:33 PM

20. I can't keep track of what is serious and what isn't

 

We're living in such mixed up times.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:37 PM

27. LOL.

I haven't seen that in an age. Thanks for that!

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:30 PM

16. There's no shootings at Supermax Prisons! Maybe we should have Kindergarten there.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:33 PM

21. Reading through the insta-responses here and elsewhere...

I'm pretty sure that nothing will change.

And in a short amount of time, we'll have these conversations all over again.

We are all way to convinced how smart we are, to listen to any suggestions at all.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:46 PM

39. Your suggestion was ridiculous. Hence the ridicule.

The amount of security to make an entire school into something like the "secure area" of an airport would take a ton of manpower and a god-awful shit-ton of money. (There's way way way more schools than there are airports.)

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Response to Iggo (Reply #39)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:01 PM

45. OH I don't care about ridicule on the Internet

That's as common as can be. Lots of people act tough when it's anonymous.

But I do believe that I'm right on this last point. Absolutely nothing will change and children will die and die and die. And then we all repeat our same Internet arguments.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #21)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:11 PM

43. Why not take the guns from those who shouldn't have them?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #43)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:01 PM

46. I agree.

What's stopping us?

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:36 AM

61. Republicans mostly. Time to vote on this issue.Another reason to vote a straight Democratic ticket.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:35 PM

23. They really haven't...

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:45 PM

35. Everyone should wear full body bulletproof suits. nt

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:48 PM

36. An app for that?

I like the idea of an attack app for your kid's phones. Press it, the phone is logged, the alarms go off, police are called. Each school has a unique code. If a kid presses it maliciously, they get a STERN talking to by the principal and their parents get tagged with a bill. The alarm goes off, the kids head to the nearest classroom. Put locks on doors. Keep cops within a one mile radius of schools when in session.

It will not stop the shooters, but it will guarantee a more rapid police presence, and it will reduce the number of potential targets.

I also think that it may make sense to have sensor activated doors, both external and internal. Doors will automatically lock if you don't have a button or badge. It won't stop angry students, but the overwhelming majority of school shootings were not done by students (including the most recent). The badges can be reprogrammed, which means that if a student is expelled, they can't use their badge to get back in.

I don't like the fact that we have reached the stage where any of this is necessary, but I think these are relatively inexpensive solutions that can increase security without having to go the whole metal detector route (which I've long felt was ineffective).

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:09 PM

42. Why should we live in fear so gun humpers can have their guns?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #42)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:23 PM

49. Because gun humping is the most sacred right in our entire society.

Everything else in our society must contort itself in order to accommodate the sacred right to hump guns.

The lives of children pale in importance when compared to the right to hump guns.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #49)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:35 AM

60. Yeah that seems to be what these folks think.

I have always been for gun control. Now it is time to act. My youngest is in college and I always worry about that...worried about it when they were in public school... enough.

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Response to kurtcagle (Reply #36)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:15 PM

44. What is necessary is to change the gun laws...

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 06:48 PM

37. And how exactly would this be funded?

School budgets are so tight that teachers have to pay for things like pencils out of their pocket. Parents are being asked to supply basic sanitation items such as tissues, cleaning wipes, and toilet paper.

If there's no room for TP in the budget, tell me where there's room for security.

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Response to crazycatlady (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:07 PM

48. The same way we fund anything

Taxpayer money.

Our national budget is $3.9 trillion. There are plenty of smart people who can work with that budget.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:54 PM

40. A number of urban schools already screen students

Los Angeles does. NYC does. See this:



https://www.wnyc.org/story/school-metal-detectors/

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #40)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:05 PM

47. How many school shootings have we had inside schools that do this?


I ask because I have no idea.

For some reason, it seems that people are ok with inner city schools doing this, but the suggestion that more schools try this (i.e. wealthier schools), provokes strong reactions as you can see in this thread.

Some people even say the idea is ridiculous. I guess they didn't see your links (for that matter I didn't either)

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #47)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:10 AM

65. I don't know. I just looked for schools that

have metal detectors at entry points. I don't even know if anyone has done the research.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 08:08 PM

41. Absolutely not. I don't want to turn our schools into such a thing...we take the guns

from gun humpers who shouldn't have them...I don't want to live in an America that you describe and by God I have rights too...and the filthy purveyors of death ...the NRA can go to hell.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:40 PM

50. CHILDREN. They are CHILDREN. And now we are going to pat them down to learn . . . .

. . . . how to read Dick and Jane.

What the fuck are we becoming????

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 11:52 PM

51. Id rather they walk through a metal detector

Than a rain of bullets.

But everyone seems ok if LA and NYC inner city school kids walk through metal detectors. Why the sudden concern when its middle class kids?

Just wondering.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #51)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:16 AM

53. You have NO FUCKING CLUE what I'm okay with.

How DARE you?

You want a solution? I got a solution:

MELT THE FUCKING GUNS.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #53)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:22 AM

54. Oh I have a pretty good idea



But yes. Lets melt them.

What the next step?

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #54)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:24 AM

55. Who the fuck are YOU?

I KNOW what you are.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #55)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:40 AM

56. I'm someone who cares about the kids.



If you just want to argue, I'm not good internet sparing partner.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:10 AM

52. No. Just NO.

 

Schools aren't the only places and students aren't the only Americans who deserve to be safe.

It's the guns, not the security.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:46 AM

57. No offense, but this may be the single worst idea possible in response to gun violence

Tax the fuck out of the guns and bullets, but spend it on mental health services and prison reform. We do not need a bigger police state!

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Response to hueymahl (Reply #57)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 12:51 AM

58. That's fine. clearly the idea isn't popular

And it won't go further at least due to my efforts.

It was worth posting however, if only for the fact that I did learn something - This sort of security is actually happening already in NYC and LA (see post above).

It's not something that I've heard about before and certainly I've not heard people getting angry about it, nor have I heard if it was successful. But it does seem to be accepted in certain areas.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:35 AM

59. Beyond stupid


The point of the TSA screening is to attempt to stop people from getting weapons onto airplanes and to deter them from trying to take out or take over an airplane.

Someone seeking to shoot up a bunch of others will do so at the security line, as was done at the Brussels airport, and as would certainly be a good target for a school shooter.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:39 AM

64. Be sure to arrive at school at least two hours before your first class.

This should work great.

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