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Sat Feb 24, 2018, 12:28 AM

If Police With Guns Could Not Stop a Shooter How Could Teachers With Guns Stop Him?

The fact that several armed officers were outside and could not enter safely proves that arming teachers will do no good. In order to take down a determined gunman, you must have 1) full body armor 2) a team meaning more than one, because he will run if he sees just one guy in full body armor 3) sophisticated weapons and 4) perfect aim so you do not hit civilians. In other words, you need a S.W.A.T. team in every school.

Arming teachers won't work. Arming school guards will not work. Putting the school guard in Kevlar won't work unless he is an Olympic quality marksman--he'll just end up shooting kids, too.

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply If Police With Guns Could Not Stop a Shooter How Could Teachers With Guns Stop Him? (Original post)
McCamy Taylor Feb 2018 OP
Takket Feb 2018 #1
OAITW r.2.0 Feb 2018 #2
customerserviceguy Feb 2018 #3
OhioBlue Feb 2018 #5
blake2012 Feb 2018 #6
Gabi Hayes Feb 2018 #8
blake2012 Feb 2018 #9
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Feb 2018 #4
Hortensis Feb 2018 #7
Straw Man Feb 2018 #10
MichMary Feb 2018 #11
Vinca Feb 2018 #12

Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 12:38 AM

1. we could do a lot more to protect schools BUT...........

To me the point is that we keep talking about what to do at the schools............. The guards/teachers/locked doors, whatever are all the ABSOLUTE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE. By the time someone has shown up with a weapon and the intent to kill kids it is ALREADY TOO LATE. Maybe the best happens and he doesn't kill anyone but our society shouldn't be leaving it up to those final moments to determine massacre or not.

you stop the situation from ever evolving by making sure the killer can't ever get his hands on a weapon capable of creating a massacre in the first place.

if people want to talk about more guards or whatever, fine. but that comes with the roll of the dice that the guard shoots the terrorist before the terrorist shoots the kids and that is a chance parents and kids should NEVER be forced to take in exchange for an education.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 12:44 AM

2. Kinda makes the case of why assault weapons need to be banned by a normal society, no?

Ban any rifle capable of shooting more than 3 rounds in 20 seconds. If you can't take down a deer/bear/rabbit within this window, tough shit, you suck at hunting. All other weapons exceeding this limit are banned.... period. Give a 3 mo. amnesty to turn in the fire arms that violate this. All persons caught with these machine guns get a 10 year mandatory federal gun sentence.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 12:58 AM

3. Here's the difference

the cops were chickenshit, a teacher facing down an asshole with a weapon probably doesn't have the choice to cower behind something bulletproof.

Sorry, this whole revelation just plays into Trump's hands, now teachers have to ask themselves, "If the cops/security officers/doughnut eaters don't have the courage to confront an active shooter, will I avail myself of the opportunity to be in a position to save either myself, my students, or both?"

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 02:19 AM

5. It seems everyone has a different scenario running in their minds on this issue

So if Mrs. O'Conner who is one of the chosen school staff to be armed chooses to comfort and hide her first graders in a closet when she knows the shooter is in another wing of the building rather than open the door and leave 6 yr olds alone... Is she going to face public condemnation and accusations of cowardice for not seeking out the young man with kevlar and an AR15 with 30 round clips to face with her shaking hands and her CCW handgun?

Or what happens when the Phys Ed teacher/football coaches grabs his weapon to run into the hall after a fire alarm has been pulled and then an active shooter alert comes across the PA? Once he sees the chaos and calms and guides students to safety rather than seek out the shooter is he going to be ostracized and brandished a coward?

I think this is a huge responsibility to be placing on teachers that already have a crap ton of stresses, worries and responsibilities over their students. They shouldn't be in this place. People shouldn't have weapons that can do this kind of damage. If the cops are hesitant to confront why would we think civilians wouldn't be hesitant?

I'm disappointed with the news of the SRO but I'm not going to demonize him either - he was in a terrible position and minutes to react. He will live with this for the rest of his life. We weren't in his shoes and none of us can script what would happen in potential future situations.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 02:26 AM

6. Thats a ridiculous premise

 

Research and common sense says arming teachers is going to raise likelihood of something even worse happening.

Itís a stupid fever dream of right wing kooks and the NRA/gun manufacturers along with the criminals like Trump whoring for them.

The real issue to be solved is reducing guns in our society in general and these kinds of weapons along the lines of AR15ís in particular.

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Response to blake2012 (Reply #6)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 02:44 AM

8. Normalizing the abnormal

 

Making the insane seem sane

Giving people like this airtime, and treating them as if their viewpoint is worth listening to



https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10283006

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Response to Gabi Hayes (Reply #8)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 02:50 AM

9. yep.

 

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 01:43 AM

4. According to Trump, policemen just don't have the "love" for the students that teachers do.

That is wrong on so many levels.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 02:36 AM

7. Not couldn't, didn't. And don't forget, the teachers

would already be inside and would be targets along with the students.

I also believe arming schools is not an answer for a wide variety of reasons, including the prosaic reality that any one school among 130,000 total already has an extremely low chance of being attacked, so that conceivably none of the systems installed in some would ever be used; and, if anything, their chances of ever being attacked should become even lower if they armed.

But the notion that the armed and trained teachers would be hiding while their students were shot down is not among my reasons. The great heroism displayed by unarmed teachers shows otherwise.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #7)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 03:25 AM

10. Exactly.

Thank you for injecting a bit of rationality into the circus this entire discussion has become.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 07:18 AM

11. Post-Columbine active shooter procedures:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

Arming teachers is a dumb idea, but there are procedures that don't involve SWAT teams. Even if there is only one LEO, that person is expected to do what he/she can to save lives.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Original post)

Sat Feb 24, 2018, 07:28 AM

12. Teachers couldn't stop him unless they had the same or better weapon at the ready.

Let's assume every teacher in the school had a concealed weapon. Unless they made a very, very lucky shot, they would be outgunned by a weapon with a longer range, higher speed and superior velocity. That's why I don't blame law enforcement officers waiting for backup instead of going in (unless they were armed with something more than a handgun). Trying to take on weapons of war with weapons of target shooting is suicide. No one has even brought up the notion that if teachers are armed, a shooter will target the teachers first. It's all totally crazy. I don't recognize this country anymore.

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