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fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:48 PM Mar 2018

When Trump is impeached, what if he refuses to leave office?

Like any game of chess, it's important to think past the next move.

I'm convinced that Trump will be impeached, sometime in the next year or so. However, our assumption that he just packs up leaves needs to be examined.

This is a guy who had the Russians steal the election for him (or at least was the recipient of Russian action), so it only follows that he(or Russia) would resist impeachment when it comes to that.

What if he orders the Military to enforce his rule (using generals he installs/promotes)? What if he mobilizes the NRA in support?

I know it's easy to say "one step at a time, we'll worry about that later", but we really do need to some succession and follow on planning.

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When Trump is impeached, what if he refuses to leave office? (Original Post) fescuerescue Mar 2018 OP
cut off the supply of big macs....he's cave quickly nt Fresh_Start Mar 2018 #1
LOL Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #2
Outlaw McDonalds in this country ProudLib72 Mar 2018 #39
US Marshalls? lisa58 Mar 2018 #3
Hope they feel free to rough him up a little ooky Mar 2018 #20
Yes...and don't put their hand over his head when they put him in the squad car poboy2 Mar 2018 #26
Did Bill Clinton leave office when he was impeached? johnp3907 Mar 2018 #4
he was impeached, but not convicted NewJeffCT Mar 2018 #6
Well, Clinton was acquitted but, you're right , Trump won't have to leave office right away. octoberlib Mar 2018 #9
Well to be clear, I mean impeached and convicted. fescuerescue Mar 2018 #15
2/3rds Of Senate Needed For Conviction SoCalMusicLover Mar 2018 #27
So you are saying we are stuck with him for 4 years? fescuerescue Mar 2018 #32
Look at the numbers MichMary Mar 2018 #33
It's definitely an uphill battle. cos dem Mar 2018 #57
Then the appropriate law enforcement agency can frogmarch his ass out of the octoberlib Mar 2018 #5
If he can't keep Hope Hicks loyalty marylandblue Mar 2018 #7
He doesn't have to leave unless he is convicted in the Senate. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #8
Until convicted nothing sarisataka Mar 2018 #10
to be clear fescuerescue Mar 2018 #17
Like any other convicted criminal sarisataka Mar 2018 #23
Why do you think that option is available to him? NCTraveler Mar 2018 #24
I'm worried about who would have his back fescuerescue Mar 2018 #31
That leaves the question standing. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #38
Who is the second? fescuerescue Mar 2018 #47
Hope is not necessary. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #48
I'm not here to advocate for Trump fescuerescue Mar 2018 #50
The House impeaches and the Senate holds a trial to convict. If he is convicted madinmaryland Mar 2018 #11
Have his congressman refuse permission Hortensis Mar 2018 #12
I remember, when it became obvious that Nixon was going down, The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2018 #13
Thanks fescuerescue Mar 2018 #19
Hes almost never there anyway Major Nikon Mar 2018 #14
So....Lock the door when he steps out fescuerescue Mar 2018 #18
Fantasy. onenote Mar 2018 #16
Cut him off from the golf courses. He'll leave. kairos12 Mar 2018 #21
Theres a little saying we have around here. Maybe you have it too. bullimiami Mar 2018 #22
It's by no means guaranteed we'll retake the House AND Senate. briv1016 Mar 2018 #25
Trump Will Have a George Wallace Moment Stallion Mar 2018 #28
Seal team 6 drags him out by his heels samir.g Mar 2018 #29
Do you mean if the Senate votes to remove him? mcar Mar 2018 #30
+1, which is why Ryan and McConnel are Red Don's biggest enablers uponit7771 Mar 2018 #34
I never understand why some are so focused on impeachment mcar Mar 2018 #35
+1, Red Don is shameless and doesn't care if he gets impeach 20 times he's staying in the WH uponit7771 Mar 2018 #42
That's why GOTV and vote for Democrats is key mcar Mar 2018 #45
Lure him out with a bucket of fried chicken and a tax abatement. LanternWaste Mar 2018 #36
The Sargent at Arms of the United States Senate has the power to arrest the President waddirum Mar 2018 #37
Senate trial being key mcar Mar 2018 #46
I don't think he'll be impeached. Calista241 Mar 2018 #40
He will never be impeached and convicted GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #41
this congress supports trump to the end. the house has to impeach him and it's 90% looneytunes spanone Mar 2018 #43
I've thought that since Summer 2016. He won't go if impeached. Not willingly. hedda_foil Mar 2018 #44
The Generals wont obey him. They know hes a lunatic. honest.abe Mar 2018 #49
once he is removed from office his orders carry no more weight than yours or mine Takket Mar 2018 #51
Send the fucking marines in to scare the hell out of him nini Mar 2018 #52
I am willing to go in unarmed and take his fat ass out nt doc03 Mar 2018 #53
President Pences Secret Service detail would remove the unauthorized occupant jberryhill Mar 2018 #54
I think he will resign before he will be impeached. Of course impeachment is not a pink slip. YOHABLO Mar 2018 #55
He'll need to play golf. He will be gone in an instant JDC Mar 2018 #56
1. He'll get the hint when he can't use AF#1 to go to Mar-Lago. no_hypocrisy Mar 2018 #58
President Pence would have the Secret Service escort him from the White House FarCenter Mar 2018 #59
 

poboy2

(2,078 posts)
26. Yes...and don't put their hand over his head when they put him in the squad car
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:19 PM
Mar 2018

You know, let him hit his bald spot head, its only fair.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
27. 2/3rds Of Senate Needed For Conviction
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:26 PM
Mar 2018

Under the current Senate, that means getting every Democrat and at least 17 Repubs. That could change come November, but it's still going to take 10+ Repubs in order to have any chance at conviction, and probably several more.

I'm not sure that many would vote to convict, even if he was accused of killing someone on 5th Avenue.

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
33. Look at the numbers
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:36 PM
Mar 2018

It is mathematically impossible.

Nixon resigned because he had lost the confidence of the Senate Republicans. Conviction would have been likely. Things are so polarized right now that there is no way the Rs won't vote unanimously to acquit.

Yes, unless he resigns we will be stuck with him for all four years.

cos dem

(902 posts)
57. It's definitely an uphill battle.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:06 PM
Mar 2018

About the only way I see it happening is if '18 is enough of a bloodbath for Rs (in what should be a good year for them) that they get panicky enough about '20 to bail on the orange idiot. Still, as pointed out, a lot of Rs have to get on board.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
7. If he can't keep Hope Hicks loyalty
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:53 PM
Mar 2018

Do you really think his generals are going to follow the orders of the non-President?

sarisataka

(18,501 posts)
10. Until convicted nothing
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:56 PM
Mar 2018

And he won't be convicted.

As for succession, that is well covered and was discussed at length some months ago.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
17. to be clear
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:04 PM
Mar 2018

While I suppose I appreciate all the discussion that conviction is required (I thought that was obvious, but ok), the question is what happens if he is convicted and then refuses the succession plan.

sarisataka

(18,501 posts)
23. Like any other convicted criminal
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:11 PM
Mar 2018

"Nope" is not an option. Once the Senate convicts a person they are no longer President. There will be no President until the Vice President takes the oath of office, which if anyone is on the ball, should occur within minutes.

The ex-President may object, shout, stamp their foot or hold their breath until they turn blue; it won't matter because they no longer have any power.
A smart person would quickly leave by the back door.

Still a moot point as I see no scenario where the Senate votes to convict.

edit add-ons the military is not going to support illegal orders especially from a President being impeached.
As for the other, to paraphrase Stalin 'How many battalions does the NRA have?'

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
24. Why do you think that option is available to him?
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:14 PM
Mar 2018

You think Marshall’s will have his back? You keep mentioning only one person. It would take major agencies, including all top military, for something like this to even be a possibility.

Unless you mean he hides in a closet pissing himself. Then I say we leave him.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
31. I'm worried about who would have his back
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:31 PM
Mar 2018

While I have no use for him, he did have enough support to steal his way into the Whitehouse.

Certainly the Russians have their own people during what they do. I doubt that he would be 100% isolated then any more than he was 100% isolated on election day

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
38. That leaves the question standing.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 08:28 PM
Mar 2018

Who has his back at that point? I now know of two people who would refer to him as President at that point, Trump being one of them. So who are the people who help him to maintain power instead of simply being a trespasser.

That’s the question. The amount of people, including agencies, would be rather large. Agencies he has relentlessly attacked. Otherwise he is simply an unwelcome occupant, with two people for sure referring to him as President, and his removal would be swift.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
48. Hope is not necessary.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:37 PM
Mar 2018

You have yet to make any case. The question is still unanswered. How would Trump get the Joint Chiefs, Dept of Justice and others to answer to him instead of Pence?

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
50. I'm not here to advocate for Trump
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 10:49 PM
Mar 2018

I'm just an observer and I'm not making a case. I'm asking a question.

When we look at any dictator, king or other evil leader we can ask the same thing, "Why do people follow him"?

Any rational person would have assumed that people would have abandoned Hitler once it became clear he was evil and was doing evil things, yet he remained in power until millions died to remove him.

I think the answer is, because there are follower who think they will be rewarded, or they fear punishment. Take Kim Jung-un for instance. Evil person, hated by millions including certainly his own people. Yet he is flesh and blood and his body is just as fragile as any of ours. Nonetheless he lives and stays in power.

I never thought Trump would be nominated. I never though he would be elected. Yet we know what happened.

To answer your question, I don't think he would get the Joint Chiefs, Dept of Justice and others to answer to him. But my predictions haven't been textbook, and furthermore, they are quite irrelevant, because if they were, he wouldn't be where he is now.

madinmaryland

(64,931 posts)
11. The House impeaches and the Senate holds a trial to convict. If he is convicted
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:56 PM
Mar 2018

by the Senate, would he voluntarily leave? Assuming Pence doesn't get convicted by the Senate also, the he would be handed all controls of the Presidency and would have tRump removed from the White House (forcibly if necessary.)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Have his congressman refuse permission
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:56 PM
Mar 2018

to for him tour the White House like the rest of us?

Fescue, after impeachment would come trial by Senate. If he was removed by that process, the VP would become president.

Most of us would have more than enough to worry about with a new President Pence, who'd then be Commander in Chief.

If Trump threw a tantrum, WH security and the rest of the Secret Service could tend to him, though probably someone he was still talking to might be there to schmooze him out quietly. But otherwise it'd be the job of the WH's Chief Usher to move ex-President Trump's and Mrs. Trump's belongings to their destination of choice, make sure they didn't accidentally take any WH property, etc.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,615 posts)
13. I remember, when it became obvious that Nixon was going down,
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 06:56 PM
Mar 2018

the same question came up. Some people wondered whether he'd barricade himself inside the White House and refuse to leave if he was actually impeached. As it happened, once the articles of impeachment came out of the House judiciary committee, he gave up and resigned. But he'd become pretty buggy the last few months, and there was some speculation that he might do something drastic.

Trump is probably even crazier, but he's also a big fat coward. So, we'll see.

fescuerescue

(4,448 posts)
19. Thanks
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:07 PM
Mar 2018

I really didn't intend to get into the technical process of conviction etc, I thought that part was obvious (But I suppose not since there are a dozen replies repeating that part )

I appreciate the historical perspective, I didn't realize that the same concerns were raised about Nixon.

onenote

(42,610 posts)
16. Fantasy.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:03 PM
Mar 2018

Pure fantasy.

The guys a nutjob, but the military isn't going to set up a barricade around the white house.

Stallion

(6,473 posts)
28. Trump Will Have a George Wallace Moment
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:27 PM
Mar 2018

the military would enforce a final judgment of conviction by the legislative branch and/or the next in line of succession as mandated by the constitution.

mcar

(42,278 posts)
30. Do you mean if the Senate votes to remove him?
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:29 PM
Mar 2018

Impeachment doesn't do anything without a 2/3rds vote of the Senate to remove.

Even if Dems take back the Senate, it'll be by a seat or two. Removal won't happen, this the impeachment argument is not all that relevant, IMO.

mcar

(42,278 posts)
35. I never understand why some are so focused on impeachment
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:42 PM
Mar 2018

when it will get nowhere in the Senate.

mcar

(42,278 posts)
45. That's why GOTV and vote for Democrats is key
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:24 PM
Mar 2018

Mueller will do what he does, but unless he can perpwalk the Dotard out of the WH, it's up to us.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
36. Lure him out with a bucket of fried chicken and a tax abatement.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:47 PM
Mar 2018

Lure him out with a bucket of fried chicken and a tax abatement.

I know I sound flippant, but Trump is too much an idiot, too incompetent, and too lazy to pull off a Boris Yeltsin stand,

waddirum

(979 posts)
37. The Sargent at Arms of the United States Senate has the power to arrest the President
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 07:57 PM
Mar 2018

I believe refusal to leave office would after impeachment and Senate trial would qualify for such an arrest.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
40. I don't think he'll be impeached.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 08:37 PM
Mar 2018

They've already laid most of the groundwork that the independent counsel is a biased, partisan process.

We'll hear about how there are no Republicans on Mueller's staff, we'll hear about how they relied entirely upon the Steele memo (which isn't evidence of anything) as a legal foundation for all their subsequent investigations.

And we'll hear about how it's the Democrats, the outgoing Obama administration, and everyone else he doesn't like's fault. And he'll still have that 35-40% strong approval rating, which is enough to keep 50 Repub Senators in office, and we're SOL.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
41. He will never be impeached and convicted
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 08:41 PM
Mar 2018

But I will play...

The minute he is convicted he is not President. President Pence would have him, Jarvanka, and anyone or thing that reminds the country of Trump removed by the Secret Service so fast you head would spin.

hedda_foil

(16,371 posts)
44. I've thought that since Summer 2016. He won't go if impeached. Not willingly.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:16 PM
Mar 2018

I see a potential scenario where his masses of armed followers descend on the WH to prevent him from being physically removed.

honest.abe

(8,617 posts)
49. The Generals wont obey him. They know hes a lunatic.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 09:45 PM
Mar 2018

They only tolerate him now because he holds the office of the President. Once that is legally stripped they will treat him like a criminal if he tries to forceably remain on office.

Takket

(21,529 posts)
51. once he is removed from office his orders carry no more weight than yours or mine
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 10:51 PM
Mar 2018

he can refuse to leave but after about 5 minutes the FBI will take him into custody to stand trial.

no_hypocrisy

(46,040 posts)
58. 1. He'll get the hint when he can't use AF#1 to go to Mar-Lago.
Thu Mar 1, 2018, 11:17 PM
Mar 2018

2. When he uses his own jet, they'll change the locks of the WH.
3. Just wait for him to leave on his own initiative. He doesn't stay at the WH more than 5 days in a row.

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