What really is the power behind the NRA?

[Equinox Moon]

I realize money is at the top of the list, but what else?
What illegal activities are they involved with? Where does all their power come from to hold congress hostage?

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. Well we now know they have been conspiring with the KGB or FSB if you must, through

the oligarchs. So there is that. I know their supporters dont care that they are all traitors, but someone must care.

Anyway, the rest of it is money I think. I have to assume the majority of the money they had in the past to distribute was from gun makers, but I wonder how much their income is from all sources and how much they give to politicians.

Then, would we see that they have been taking Putin's money for a LONG time?

[Equinox Moon]

5. Interesting

I did not know about the Russian links. Excuse my ignorance, but what is FSB?

[Eliot Rosewater]

11. The Russian link is big news recently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service


FSB is simply the new name for the KGB

[Equinox Moon]

13. Thanks. Too much going on to even try to keep up with all of it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB

Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB
Putin is involved in everything that is bad in America - FSB, KGB


because I prefer to respond to myself than certain types of people

[Weed Man]

31. Proof? Evidence?

Please stop throwing Putin eveywhere. I am anti Putin but throwing Putin or Russia to every conspiracy had gone beyond riduculous without proof.
Ok?

[Tanuki]

35. Start here:

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/590076949/depth-of-russian-politicians-cultivation-of-nra-ties-revealed

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/national/russian-banker-met-trump-nra-article-1.3850535

[LanternWaste]

38. Almost as ridiculous as the allegation that every conspiracy is assigned to Putin...

throwing Putin or Russia to every conspiracy had gone beyond riduculous (sic) without proof. "

Almost as ridiculous as the allegation that every concern or conspiracy is assigned to Putin... again, without proof (I do however, realize the efficacy of holding others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to).

O-tay, Buckwheat!

[dreamboat]

2. Sorry. It's all about money.

I'm sorry. But if you ask me, it's ALL about the money.

They don't need illegal activities; they're already designated non-profit and shouldn't be. I don't think they give two poops about 2nd Amendment per se. I believe they represent the gun manufacturers, who can write off their donations to the NRA.

[Equinox Moon]

3. There must be a very strong link between gun manufactures, I agree.

Welcome to DU

[Orsino]

9. The ability of money to lobby politicians, specifically.

That much is on us.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

4. Single issue voters. And money

A lot of gun owners are single issue voters and the NRA can mobilize them. The money helps, but ultimately if they can reliably turn out millions of voters every election year, then politicians will listen.

[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/us/politics/nra-gun-control-florida.html|]

[Equinox Moon]

7. Good point.

[CrispyQ]

6. They are the lobbying arm of the gun industry.

If they accepted Russian money it's only so they could buy off GOP politicians to look the other way while our children are murdered in their schools.

The GOP is totally compromised & hopefully Mueller will destroy the brand. That's what this country needs - the GOP totally shamed & exposed for the craven sell outs they are.

[Equinox Moon]

8. Is the gun industry and defense contractors one-in-the same?

[backtoblue]

23. I think you just nailed it

The arms dealers profit from war. The NRA profits from arms sales.

[unblock]

10. Money. Theirs and their members.

Not only do they get money from their members and from gunmakers, but more important, they direct money to certain candidates and their members respond.

Enough of their members are single-issue voters that if the nra says to oppose some candidate, that can really swing an election. These votes and campaign contributions really amplify the nra’s power far beyond just what they can contribute directly.

[Equinox Moon]

12. Ideology as well, I would think.

I heard a program on NPR breaking it down, the history of the NRA. They used to be an organization that for gun regulation and gun safety. It flipped and was overtaken in, I believe, 1968 by radicals. Kind of like the stereotypical "red neck" right winger. It has been getting more and more radical over the years.

[bettyellen]

27. point above about the connection w the military- 1968 was when the hippies won

Was the NRA’s change in mission due to fear of peace- and loss of profits from war?

[MicaelS]

45. It was not 1968, and Vietnam had nothing to do with it.

Google the " Cincinnati Revolt." That was when the NRA changed.

[bettyellen]

47. The takeover of the NRA was a reaction to 1968s Gun Control Act, so Id say

Culturally, yeah there was an overreaction to that movement. And it led to less gun control and eventually Ronald Reagan. Would not be surprised if some of the support for all that didn’t come from the military industrial complex

[EffieBlack]

14. We are

Everyone says it’s the money, but that’s only partially correct.

The money they spread around would be useless unless it buys something that politicians want and need.

What does it buy? ADS.

But the ads wouldn’t be worth squat if they didn’t work.

Why do ads work? Because too many of US watch them, swallow them and vote exactly how they tell us to vote.

WE are the problem. And ultimately, we can be the solution - but only if we start thinking for ourselves.

[Equinox Moon]

17. Propaganda ads do work.

I have come across people that quote the propaganda and don't realize what they are doing or believing in.

[RKP5637]

15. I view the NRA as anti-American, working to bring the country down. An in depth investigation like

the Trump regime is facing would provide some very interesting information. All these so called patriots blessing the NRA are doing themselves and the country in. What has the NRA done to benefit America, other than bringing death and destruction. In the early days the NRA was OK, but now it is far different, and dangerous to the future of the US.

[Equinox Moon]

16. Well said.

[smirkymonkey]

32. Why are politicians so concerned with the NRA vote when such a small percentage of Americans

actually belong. True, there are many gun owners that are not NRA members, but many of them believe in some kind of gun control. The majority of us don't own guns at all and firmly believe in gun control. How is it that such a minority has so much power?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/15/most-gun-owners-dont-belong-to-the-nra-and-they-dont-agree-with-it-either/?utm_term=.1be0ed52df16

Most gun owners don’t belong to the NRA — and they don’t agree with it either

"It's widely acknowledged that the National Rifle Association is one of the nation's most influential advocacy groups. They've successfully lobbied against the expansion of federal gun control policies in the post-Newtown era, and supported numerous state-level policy changes that broadened access to guns. Through campaign donations and popular legislator scorecards they exert considerable influence on federal gun law making.

Given its high profile, it's easy to assume that the NRA represents the voice of American gun owners. But in fact, the organization's membership numbers and survey data point a different picture. Only a small fraction of the nation's gun owners are NRA members. Even among NRA members, there is widespread dissent from some key points of the organization's orthodoxy. And on many gun control issues, the majority of gun owners who aren't affiliated with the NRA hold opinions closer to those of non-gun owners than to those of NRA members.

Let's start with the membership numbers. In recent years the NRA has said it has 5 million dues-paying members. There's some reason to be skeptical of this figure, but let's assume 5 million is right. Those 5 million members only comprise somewhere between 6 and 7 percent of American gun owners. That would imply that the overwhelming majority of American gun owners -- over 90 percent of them -- do not belong to the NRA." [more]

[RKP5637]

36. Based on money and donations. There should be a moderate cap on all monies politicians

can collect/horde. Also, Citizens United and the Electoral College should be eliminated. Corporations should not be able to contribute to an election.

[hack89]

44. Because such a small percentage of Americans actually vote

politicians fear the NRA because they get out the vote. Want to dilute the gun vote? Increase overall voter turnout.

[EL34x4]

46. There's a lot of "part time" NRA members.

They'll sign up for a year or two when they think gun rights are threatened, get the ballcap and crappy magazine, put the decal on their truck, and then let their membership lapse for a few years until the next time the NRA talks a convincing game.

So figure out of those five million members, there's probably two or three times as many who have at some point in the past been a member of the NRA and then a significant number who sympathize with the NRA but have never gotten around to singing up.

[hack89]

18. They deliver votes.

Not complicated.

[Equinox Moon]

19. I have heard that 80% of the country want stronger gun control

I still don't understand how 20% can be that influential.

I am hopeful we are on a trend to making some lasting changes. The young adults and corporations are making a big dent.

[hack89]

24. Because many of that 80% don't vote

So they don't matter in the eyes of politicians. NRA voters will crawl through broken glass to vote if their guns are threatened. That is why politicians fear the NRA.

[Straw Man]

42. That number is very suspect.

If it were true, the NRA influence would not be as great as it is. I think the 80% figure is derived from push polls and skewed samples.

For example, asking people if they believe in "common-sense gun regulation" virtually guarantees an affirmative response.

[lindysalsagal]

20. Testosterone, or the lack there-of.

[Equinox Moon]

21. That's it!

[global1]

22. Remember At The Town Hall When One Of The Students Told Rubio That.....

we can get donations to match what NRA gives you - and Rubio went stoic? I don't think it is the money. I'm thinking somehow these Repugs are being blackmailed by the NRA.

I keep saying there is power in numbers. If all the Repugs banded together and did the right thing with respect to gun reform - the NRA couldn't possibly primary all of them and I don't know if they would have enough money to do that.

Something else besides money has a hold on them. Don't know what it is - but I'd sure like to find out. How are they being threatened? Their lives? Their families lives? If it was just their job - most of these Repugs could get another job easily. Think tanks. Director on a board of a company. etc.

[Equinox Moon]

25. Yep, I think like you. What is the actual hold on them?

This report about the NRA spending is interesting.
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=d000000082


The largest amount of money spent is "against democrats"

OUTSIDE SPENDING: $54,398,558
Discloses Donors? YES
Viewpoint: Conservative
Loading Chart

Independent Expenditures: $52,582,309
For Democrats: $265
Against Democrats: $37,010,516
For Republicans: $17,385,437
Against Republicans: $2,281
Electioneering Communications: $0About Electioneering Communications
Communication Costs: $1,816,249

Look at all this money, "against democrats".

[Lint Head]

26. The NRA is a branch of the federal government. The most powerful branch.

[sl8]

28. The True Source of the N.R.A.s Clout: Mobilization, Not Donations

From https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/us/politics/nra-gun-control-florida.html


A gun store in Florida. The N.R.A. has advanced a broad agenda in the state, including making it easier to carry concealed weapons.CreditLynne Sladky/Associated Press

The True Source of the N.R.A.’s Clout: Mobilization, Not Donations
By Eric Lipton and Alexander Burns
Feb. 24, 2018

WASHINGTON — Few places have seen the National Rifle Association wield its might more effectively than Florida, where it has advanced a sweeping agenda that has made it easier to carry concealed weapons, given gun owners greater leeway to shoot in self-defense and even briefly barred doctors from asking patients about their firearms.

To many of its opponents, that decades-long string of victories is proof that the N.R.A. has bought its political support. But the numbers tell a more complicated story: The organization’s political action committee over the last decade has not made a single direct contribution to any current member of the Florida House or Senate, according to campaign finance records.

In Florida and other states across the country, as well as on Capitol Hill, the N.R.A. derives its political influence instead from a muscular electioneering machine, fueled by tens of millions of dollars’ worth of campaign ads and voter-guide mailings, that scrutinizes candidates for their views on guns and propels members to the polls.

...

Far more than any check the N.R.A. could write, it is this mobilization operation that has made the organization such a challenging adversary for Democrats and gun control advocates — one that, after the massacre at a school in Parkland, Fla., is struggling to confront an emotional student-led push for new restrictions.

...

More at link.

[Nevernose]

29. Reliable one issue voters

I know people who are to the left on literally every single possible policy issue, but still voted for Trump because they didn’t want a Clinton taking their guns.

[Lee-Lee]

30. Millions of motivated, politically active member s

And a lot in addition that are not dues paying members but listen to them on the issue.

You can do generic polls saying “do you want more gun control” with no specifics and make it look like there is broad support. But if you drill down and ask how passionate or dedicated they are on that issue then support drops off sharply. For most of that 80% gun control is something they say they support in theory but are not willing to put strong emphasis on for choosing a candidate, for spending money on, for dedicating time to.

But the people willing to pay dues to join the NRA are much more politically active and motivated and more likely to actually make gun issues a make or break issue when voting.

You can easily see this in action when you look at the difference in size. The NRA has between 4-5 million dues paying members. How big is the largest anti-gun organization in terms of people actually paying dues or making donations yearly. Does any even top 100,000? Most totals I see them give for how “strong” they are they count acebook followers or email signups as “members” and even then they don’t come close.

Why the difference? Because people say they are for gun control when all they have to do is answer a question, but when it comes to doing anything pst that they really don’t care enough to be bothered.

Look at the NRA annual conventions. They draw 50,000-75,000 attendees a year. What’s the largest anti-gun rally in the last few years, maybe a few thousand at best?

It’s the fact that their base and membership is highly motivated and highly active that makes the biggest impact.

One can draw parallels to the LGBT rights movement. In the 90’s if you polled people you had similar numbers against marriage equality that say they are pro gun control now. But the LGBT rights people are HIGHLY motivated and active and despite polls saying they were in the steep minority most of the people against marriage equality just said it and didn’t care enough to do anything about it, while people for marriage equality worked relentlessly and didn’t stop. And a Democrat who may see his or her district poll strongly against marriage equality learned that they better be for it because while marriage equality may not poll well in their district the people for it were motivated and active and would still take them down.

[Efilroft Sul]

34. A membership that's easy to manipulate and motivate for all the wrong reasons.

[LanternWaste]

39. Great article in Business Insider-- NRA absorbs criticism for the gun industry

Great article in Business Insider-- NRA absorbs criticism for the gun industry. Excerpts below.


http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1


This shift is key to understanding why a coalition of hunters, collectors and firearm enthusiasts takes the heat for incidents of gun violence, like the shooting massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, rather than the companies that manufacture and market assault weapons.

"Today's NRA is a virtual subsidiary of the gun industry," said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center. "While the NRA portrays itself as protecting the 'freedom' of individual gun owners, it's actually working to protect the freedom of the gun industry to manufacture and sell virtually any weapon or accessory."

There are two reasons for the industry support for the NRA. The first is that the organization develops and maintains a market for their products. The second, less direct function, is to absorb criticism in the event of PR crises for the gun industry.

It's possible that without the NRA, people would be protesting outside of Glock, SIG Sauer and Freedom Group — the makers of the guns used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre — and dragging the CEOs in front of cameras and Congress. That is certainly what happened to tobacco executives when their products continued killing people.

[Blue_Tires]

40. I think here is a good place to start:

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

41. Money and votes.

[Saboburns]

43. White men who claim to be Christian but are not.

See also Republican Party.

[jmowreader]

48. The NRA has the proven ability to twist politicians' arms

There are three things a right-wing politician must subscribe to.

First is that abortion must be banned under all circumstances.

Next is that taxes must always be cut, social spending must always be reduced and government must always be shrunk. If the GOP were able to cut all taxes to zero, the detaxers would simply say, "now go in there and give us our money back."

And finally, Good Americans must have the absolute right to own any gun and any gun accessory they want. (This is what the NRA is for.)

If a Republican politician decides to stray so much as an angstrom from the approved party line, the NRA will do everything in its power to throw that politician out of office.