Tribe: "The jig is up, Donald" - Corporations have 1st Amendment rights, but NOT 5th Amendment

[highplainsdem]

Tweet from Laurence Tribe, minutes ago:

Link to tweet

Did you know that, even though corporations have 1st Amendment free speech rights, they DO NOT have 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination? That’s key to Mueller’s subpoena to the Trump Organization. The jig is up, Donald.

[malaise]

1. Off to the greatest page

LOCK HIM UP!!

[grumpyduck]

2. Okay, I'm lost

Really. I thought SCOTUS had ruled that corporations have the same rights as people. If someone can point me to something that clarifies Tribe's comment, I'd appreciate it.

[highplainsdem]

3. Here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt5afrag6_user.html

The privilege against self–incrimination is a personal one and cannot be utilized by or on behalf of any organization, such as a corporation. Thus, a corporation cannot object on self–incrimination grounds to a subpoena of its records and books or to the compelled testimony of those corporate agents who have been given personal immunity from criminal prosecution.175 Neither may a corporate official with custody of corporate documents which incriminate him personally resist their compelled production on the assertion of his personal privilege.176

[grumpyduck]

6. Thank you!

I think I'll get some popcorn ready.

[fierywoman]

9. Such beautiful words, thank you for finding and posting them !!!

[calimary]

10. GOOD!!!

Thanks for finding this, highplainsdem!

[PatrickforO]

11. Well, that clears it up. Thanks!

I sure hope the jig is up for Trump. He's been circling the drain awhile. I yearn for that sucking sound as he goes on down the pipe into the sewer where he belongs.

[mentalslavery]

22. what if a corporation is a person.....

[NastyRiffraff]

23. What a wonderful paragraph!

Thanks, highplainsdem!

[Volaris]

25. Well then what are the pre qualifying conditions for having any Rights at all?

It's clearly not Being a Human, as Corporations...arent.
It's clearly not the direct wording of the Constitution, as that document doesn't say anything about corporations at all.
If the Fifth doesn't apply, why does the First?
If the First does apply (and it clearly does, according to the Court), why wouldn't the Fifth?
What's the difference, and whats the functional distinction?

[tymorial]

5. Corporate personhood does not extend to all constitutional rights

specifically the 5th. Hale vs Henkel is one (SCOTUS decisions) US vs Sourapas and Crest is another.

[Volaris]

26. But how the hell is that possible?

If one Right applies (speech), how does another, NOT?

I'm not saying I want corporations to have even the right of speech (I don't think they should), but how is it logical that they qualify for First Amendment Protections, but not the rest?

[Xipe Totec]

4. They have the right to speak, but nit the right to keep quiet. Love it. nt

[highplainsdem]

12. I love it, too.

[Sophia4]

7. Text of the Fifth Amendment

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/fifth_amendment

[Honeycombe8]

14. "Citizens United": Corporations are people, too. nt

[Sophia4]

16. So far not for purposes of the Fifth Amendment.

That's well established.

Of course, who knows with this court.

How can a corporation incriminate itself in terms of criminal culpability? Corporations don't face imprisonment, and that is what the Fifth Amendment's bar against self-incrimination is about -- potential prison sentences.

[Honeycombe8]

17. Yes, w/this S.Ct., who knows. Corporations can't vote, either. But they can donate to candidates....

as people. In addition to the people at the corporation also donating. Once you go down that slippery slope....

[George II]

8. That, and any crimes they commit in the course of lying aren't pardonable.

[Honeycombe8]

13. UNLESS they insist on claiming 5th Amendment rights, and it goes to the Supreme Court. nt

[rwsanders]

15. If anyone whats a quick read on how un-american corporate "person-hood" really is...

https://vault.sierraclub.org/sierra/200509/corporation.asp
Totally sick perverted concept promoted by a sick and perverted right-wing supreme court.
The only concept that approaches that one for shear fatuousness is that money is a form of speech. If that is so, I want all my debtors to know that I'm no longer talking to them and they can't make me.

[BSdetect]

18. Hope this is accurate

[FakeNoose]

19. Did Trump divest himself of ownership of the Trump Org. before becoming President?

He claimed he was planning to divest, but I don't remember if he ever actually did it. The kiddies were supposed to be managing things on their own, and they were to never discuss family business with their father while he was POTUS. That was the original plan, but as far as I know, it never happened.

So if divestiture never happened, I guess it means Cheeto is resposible for crimes that were committed even while he was off campaigning? Would he be responsible for crimes the company committed while he's been President, since he didn't divest?

Asking for a friend.

[lastlib]

20. I've seen nothing saying he did.

I'm sure it would've jumped out at me if he had, but--nada. Best guess is, he still holds. And would still be on the hook.

[rsdsharp]

21. In any event

the Fifth Amendment is a testimonial privilege. It does not apply to documents or other tangible items. If it did, anyone (any living person) could defeat a subpoena or search warrant merely by invoking the privilege.

[orangecrush]

24. ...

Great post!

[Gothmog]

27. Yeah for Prof Tribe

[no_hypocrisy]

28. Not yet.

I attended a lecture last night with Trump expert, journalist, and law professor, David Cay Johnston.

He discussed corporations being recognized as "People" under the 14th Amendment. Recognized for having political rights. (Citizens United). And recognized for having religious rights. (Hobby Lobby).

It's a matter of time before a rogue Supreme Court grants them criminal protection as well.