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I do not completely blame Democrats for their shift to the right. Obama did not win the senior vote in 2008. And the Democrats did little better in 2010. Seniors who seem to be senile these days will not vote for a pro worker Democrat or so it seems. I hear so many seniors who are against socialism and the GOP exploits the mental disconnect. They do NOT GET that Social Security and Medicare are essentially socialist programs.
I know one senior who will vote for Romney who told me that the GOP will never touch Social Security or Medicare. And he will vote GOP and Romney because the Catholic Church told him to and they do not want a black in the White House. And he is a retired teacher on a public pension. And I hear about the same thing from many other seniors who believe the Obama is too socialistic. And some even believe he is a communist.
So what are the Democrats to do when a key constituency says they will not vote for a "socialist" Democrat? And blue collar workers will not vote for Obama because they do not like blacks and many of them are union members. Candidates I know who run on progressive and pro worker agendas are painted as tax and spend socialists who will give your tax dollar to lazy people who refuse to work for a living. They get their asses kicked all over the map in elections. Talk about fair pay and the workers run the other way. Our profound ignorance is just appalling. So how do you run for office when voters reject progressive values as too communistic?
Our mental disconnect is so profound in so many ways that we seem to want to commit national suicide. I simply do not understand it. And I often hear that "messaging" is so important and that the Democrats are bad at messaging. For one the media shuts Democrats down all across the nation and openly supports GOP talking points. Even if Democrats had a good message they cannot get it out thanks to Bill Clinton of all people.
Romney should not be able to win a single state because he is such a deeply flawed and stupid candidate. Yet the election will supposedly be close and Romney could even win. Bush looks good compared to that asshole. And he really is an arrogant asshole.
I simply have no faith in the people of the nation to make the right decision. I am fed up with the American people as a whole.
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Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)
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rfranklin
(13,200 posts)and there are other groups mentioned in the OP. Your knee jerk reaction is just that.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Welcome to the club..
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)And yes a lot of youngsters fall in the same camp. They don't like seniors and believe lazy seniors are taking their money. The GOP hate machine tells them so.
Where I play golf there are a lot of seniors and I hear the socialistic chatter all the time. Look at the Villages in Florida. It is a very RW community. Most of that crowd are on Social Security and Medicare.
The weak support of Democratic candidates who want to protect these programs are in a dilemma about how to run.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I'm a youthful 67, at least for another couple months.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)At 68 I play golf several times a week and walk over 14,000 yards every time I play. And I do it in less than 3 hours playing two balls most of the time on a championship length course over 6800 yards long . I have had a season pass for years and I have walked over 9500 miles on the golf course in 14 years. Yet I see 20 somethings taking carts on a 1500 yard par 3 course. They are even so bold as to almost drive up on the greens.
We have a senior club here where many of the guys years younger cannot even walk 9 holes they are so messed up. And many of them cannot hit a golf ball more than 175 yards. It is just sad to be around so many of them. All I hear is racist and hate against socialism and lazy poor people. And I simply do not understand their mental space.
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)I lost my Dad a couple years ago at 84. He deteriorated in a matter of weeks but he was, still golfing 6 weeks before, still driving 5 weeks, playing league table tennis 3 weeks before and bowling had cut down from twice a week to once a week about 9 days before he passed. The first game he bowled 9 strikes and blew the tenth. He was one of the happiest people I have ever met and yes he did hurt a lot sometimes but he kept at it because it wasn't all the time.
He once told me, "If you don't hurt how do really know you are alive?" That helped me in my life many times to summon up enough grit to work through pain. I was blessed.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)I am lucky in that the only problem I have is some arthritis in one knee controlled by pain meds. There are a lot of guy I have played golf with that have bad backs and replaced knees and hips and are younger.
In some ways I play better golf today than I did when I could hit a golf ball 80 yards farther. My case is a matter of luck and genetics. I have not done it in a couple of years but I can still go out on the range and hit 1000 practice balls in one day.
Yet I am not the most active golfer where I play. There are two or three guys I used to play golf with who are Republicans who have probably walked over 10,000 miles in 15 years. They play more than I do. Two of them are over 70. One had a knee replaced and walks. Sadly he is a RW Beck lover.
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)many seem to prefer ignorance over knowledge. The nation that inspired me as a youth is not here today. I shudder to think what the coming decades might bring. Frankly, more and more I think of the US as United Stupidity.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)And many of them don't give a damn about us younger people as long as they have theirs.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)I am one who cares about the younger generation. They should have the same deal seniors had for so many years. we all should be demanding a fair deal for the working class of all ages. I don't have any kids, but I know a lot who do.
I also know a guy who is a Beck and Limbaugh fan whose grandson graduated from college last year and is living with him and his wife working at a shit job. And is in some kind of legal trouble. Yet my friend does not get why.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Our media is much farther to the right, and much more partisan, than was Germany's under Hitler. There will be no major shift in the country's political skew until we the people enact media reform. When we have had enough of Repuke fascist rule, we will execute a coast-to-coast purge of Hate Radio and cable "news" personalities. It will be very, very messy, but well worth it.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)What is amazing is how many thousands upon thousands of square miles where it is all hate racist radio.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
tblue37
(65,340 posts)to do what they did in Germany, and hate radio was a major factor in the Rwandan massacre, yet most Americans don’t realize the effect relentless propaganda can have on the minds of a nation’s citizens.
Cvatdc
(4 posts)Who are not demented and who have been fighting for progressive causes for years. There are a lot of young folks who vote for the corporatists.
This post is extremely offensive to older people.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)I am amazed at how many seniors are so ignorant. To think that the GOP would not take their Social Security or Medicare is crazy.
Romney even said he would voucherize all seniors immediately if elected. Even the ones who have Medicare now.
And quite frankly I do not care if what I said is offensive. What I said should not be offensive to progressives. As a progressive I see every day what we are up against.
Even when you tell someone who believes that Medicare is not a government program they reject the fact out of hand.
Cvatdc
(4 posts)Someone told me to come here because it was a good site for Democrats and the first post I see tells me that because I'm old I'm some kind of idiot.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cvatdc
(4 posts)Don't appreciate senior bashing.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
RagAss
(13,832 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Cvatdc
(4 posts)They mention all the young people who support the GOP? Are they senile too?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)If you'd like to talk about young folks, you should probably talk about it in another thread.
Not every thread is about every facet of every subject.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)You will find that a lot of ageist drivel is posted without challenge on DU. Shocking I know... The problem is that ageist (and sexist) posts are not prohibited in the Terms of Service. Both should be but it is not.
One other thing to keep in mind, many of the people who post here are not liberals, progressives or regular Democrats - they are disruptor's who know how to fly just under the radar while posting divisive comments. Sometimes they have established more than one identify so they can argue with themselves as two and sometimes three different posters.
Stick around for the game, and it is a game, as this is not really a place to have a good discussion about policy (it used to be) or learn something (it used to be) because it has been over-run by right wingers pretending to be Democrats.
It says that a lot of seniors who have benefited from Medicare and Social Security seem to not understand that Mitt wants to destroy those programs. Not all do, but enough that Mitt could win.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Trust me, everyone here can find someone that is going to say something that is going to piss them off. If that's a problem, you may not want to hang out. Or, you could chalk it up to bad luck/coincidence that your first thread was one that bugged you.
A word to the wise, though- broad based slams on "the site" as well as extensive, breathy explanations as to what is wrong with the site and the people who post here.. probably aren't gonna be received real well coming from someone who just walked in the door.
Personally, I don't even receive them very well when they come from "established", "authentic" posters who ought to know better.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
NNN0LHI
(67,190 posts)It was assholes that did that.
And most of them are still around.
Don
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
DemocracyInaction
(2,506 posts)I am a woman who golfs every day...hubby in our state golf hall of fame, so it is a religion. The stupid and racist shit you describe I hear from men on the course daily. But, I also hear the corporate line from the young kids in our family. One thing is obvious: the common denominator is clearly Fox news insane, lying shit. Make no mistake, they are dangerous and they control a tremendous number of American minds.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)came right off the pages of Orwell's 1984. The most ill informed people in the world watch Fux News. Had relatives visiting recently who watch Fux all day long. I block Fux News and sometimes they just stared at a blank screen waiting for the propaganda.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)And O'Reilly entire method is pure Goebbels. I can remember looking at it and knowing what it was. But did I have the means to communicate it to the others watching?
No, because this is n the home, it is intimate, like a video game, single minded. And there is no opposing voice allowed.
They are screwing with people's minds by using subliminals and psychological methods with the flash rate, crawls and icons to work on the subconscious. This stuff really has been studied. And they read 1984 as a playbook, not a warning of something to avoid.
When you see the Hartmann video here with the transcript with the Koch family links from Stalin and Hitler, and what they have been purveying to us, I guess it was a matter of time after media consolidation. Every single method has been used.
They keep their viewers in an anxious state, their adrenaline flowing from sensational news, sounds and voices, to maintain an anxiety overwhelming reflective thinking processes. At that time they implant their dogma that cannot really be taken out.
The fear response causes physicological effects, like a high, that they keep going back for as when it diminishes they don't feel they are really living in the world without it. So they keep on going back for another dose.
Anyway... JMHO.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)seniors who were well into their sixties or even 70s. They showed no signs of the dementia\disconnect to which you refer and often were able to bring me up to speed on recent developments when work prevented me from keeping myself up to date. They were a pleasure to protest with and I have the deepest respect for their generation when my generation (born 1959), to a large extent failed to show up to protest the torture regime.
So maybe it's a geographic thing as much as a demographic thing?
I do not plan to stay in the U.S. should Romney be declared the victor. Wife is Canadian and we are currently buffing up our escape plans should the worst come to pass.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)brush
(53,776 posts)Patience, patience. Many of those people you speak of didn't vote for the President in 2008 and he still won. I register voters every week and also do phone banking for the President's campaign and am in touch with many people in other age brackets who are very eager to register and most of them say "We have to get the President back in there." I sense that the mainstream corporate media has a vested interest in portraying the race as being very close, just as they did in 2008, because it keeps their ratings and newsstand sales up. I don't think it'll be that close. I mean, c'mon, Romney, who can't even go to our strongest ally overseas without embarrassing the nation with foolish misteps? And don't think the Obama campaign is finished with raising the issue of his failure to release his taxes. And I'm sure they have other dirt on him that they are waiting until the right time to release. The debates are also still to come and do you really think the Mittster can go up against the President in that area? He screws up every time he gets in front of a mike when it doesn't have a "Fox News" sign on it and a softball question lobbed at him (hell, Brian Williams only asked him a simple question about how he thought the Olympics preparation was going. It's reminiscent of Couric asking Palin what she read). And what I mean by patience is those people you speak of are, quite frankly, "aging out" as the country's demographics get younger and browner as I'm writing this. The repugs know this and also know this is their last chance to win a national election because being a regional, whites-only party is in their not so distant future unless they bit the bullet and jettison their racist policies (they won't). Unfortunately for them (but fortunately for the rest of us), they've got Mitt the Twit as their nominee. Hallelujah!
MrsBrady
(4,187 posts)The old white guys the other day were talking...
They don't like Romney because they know he will sell out the middle class.
They don't like Obama because he's black.
So I think this is some of what is going on too.
But then I have hope because I also saw in a bumpersticker that said
"old white guy for Obama" very funny in the context of where I live.
eridani
(51,907 posts)I've gotten reasonably good response to a leaflet I made with the following info (PM me for a pdf including a graphic). I've never hit total denial, and I've gotten some worried looks. I caution them to not believe me straight off, but to check things out for themselves.
VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS AT ANY LEVEL, AND SAY GOODBYE TO MEDICARE
• March 2011: House Republicans vote to replace Medicare with coupons that give you a discount on the same kind of inadequate insurance that seniors could not afford before Medicare was enacted.
• September 2011: Paul Ryan walks the coupon proposal back to a "voluntary" program, which would destroy Medicare more slowly by segregating the sickest seniors in traditional Medicare. This proposal is then endorsed by all Republican presidential candidates.
• March 2012: Republican Senator Jim DeMint and other congressional Republicans propose eliminating Medicare entirely in 2014. If seniors can't afford private insurance after partial government subsidy, they can apply for Medicaid, which Republican state governments have vowed to slash.
• April 2012: House Republicans pass a budget eliminating all Medicaid funding for seniors in nursing homes, 70% of whom rely entirely on Medicaid.
Reverse side
2014? Rates of bankruptcy and death increase among older people? Not if you tell Republicans NO in November!
Rep. Jim McDermott (WA-07) says that the Ryan plan "is bad policy and a complete political loser. On top of the terrible politics, they even admit that it dismantles Medicare but achieves no budgetary savings while doing so—the worst of all worlds. Thanks for nothing."
Other dangerous proposals include raising the age of Medicare eligibility from 65 to 70. This will just force people aged 50-64 who can't afford expensive age-rated insurance to wait longer. These people even now spend much more money on health care after they become Medicare eligible. In other words, people wait to get care until their Medicare kicks in. This is bad both for health and for the federal government’s bottom line. Knowing that raising the age of eligibility will likely cost Medicare more means that implementing this policy will cost more and lead to worse outcomes. That’s the worst of both worlds.
Links
Alliance for Retired Americans
http://www.retiredamericans.org/
Medicare vs Commercial Insurance
http://pnhp.org/blog/2012/02/16/archer-and-marmor-on-medicare-versus-commercial-insurance/
National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare
http://www.ncpssm.org/
Strengthen Social Security
http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/ (labor donated)
Block quotes
RVN VET
(492 posts)Whether you're young, middle aged, or old, if you insist that the Government better keep its hands off of Social Security and Medicare, you are stupid.
If you dislike our actually very successful President because he's an African American, you are stupid.
If you can listen to Fox and other pseudo-news outlets (like CNN) talk about the President's "disdain" for small business owners, you are stupid.
Stupid. Whether you're 16 or 106. Stupid. And if you really think DU is a haven for ageist punks, yep, you are stupid. This site has proffered virtually worshipful commentary (and links to great videos) on George Carlin. Not "Hippy Dippy Mailman" George Carlin, but 60-70 year old George Carlin. Yep, the crusty old guy who saw more clearly than most Americans (of all ages) the descent of America from a nation that values each individual citizen to one that reserves more and more of its wealth for a select 1-2% of the population.
Obama should be ahead in the polls by a wide margin. Instead, the polls tell us that almost as many people "like" Romney as favor Obama. Obama cut taxes, instituted major health care reform, went after and killed international thug and murderer Osama bin Laden, and would have passed major legislation to stimulate the economy's real job creators if not for an intransigent bunch of GOP corporate whores. Romney has done nothing but lie and shuffle about the major issues facing the nation. Only stupid people -- or those who really stand to benefit by his promised reinstitution of the very Bush policies that caused the depression/recession of 2008 -- would support an arrogant cipher like Romney. And millions of Americans struggling to make a living, millions of Americans on Social Security and Medicare, millions of Americans who have and will continue to benefit from Obamacare -- millions do support Romney.
Those millions of Americans are stupid and, for most of them, there is no cure.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...because I'm holding out for a REAL socialist, LOL. Seriously. I think the real explanation is that a significant proportion of Americans are just butt ignorant and easily led, and now, coincidentally, they're aging.
kctim
(3,575 posts)It's not senility. It's not a media conspiracy. It's not stupidity. And it's not whatever other excuse you have.
NOBODY is going to take away your social security or medicare.
The simple fact is that the majority of Americans disagree with your opinion of what the "right decision" is.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)I lived in Missouri for a while. And there are still too many ignorant crackers there.
kctim
(3,575 posts)you post conspiracy filled whiny post after conspiracy filled whiny post complaining about people who dare to disagree with your view. Why you make excuses for the rejection of your views instead of accepting the fact that you have no clue what is in everybody else's best interest. Why you would rather resort to racist name-calling like a 12 year old than face facts. Why people such as myself discount your extreme opinions and views.
It may feel nice and fuzzy in that little narrowminded hate filled racist box you have created for yourself, surrounded by a few cheerleaders, but it in no way is representative of reality.
P.S.
Thank you for moving.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Nice to know you've got that regional bias bullshit going on.
So I guess you won't take it seriously when I state that I mostly agree with your analysis, though not your conclusion. After all, I'm from Missouri, lived here all of my life.
This stance of yours to not take certain people seriously because of where they happen to reside is absolute and utter bullshit. There are good people and bad people, smart and stupid people, and every shade in between in any region in this country. Sure, the numbers are going to be different, and yes, Missouri has more than its fair share of idiots, bigots and RW religious whackos, but to dismiss an individual, any individual, out of hand simply because of where they happen to live is to display the traits which you so abhor, ignorance and bigotry.
It appears from you profile that you currently reside in Colorado(or at least resided there for a quarter century), living in a state that is home to groups like Focus on the Family, the Promise Keepers, and over seven hundred other RW religious organizations. Gee, if I were like you, I would tend to dismiss anybody from Colorado as an "ignorant cracker". But I won't, since I'm not the type of person to judge another by where they live, but rather by their words and actions. Perhaps you should try doing the same.
