UK Olympic Chair announces 16 year old female swimmer "clean". No doping. History made

[leveymg]

after breaking the world record in the women's swimming 400m, with a final freestyle leg faster than the winning male swimmer in the same event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19062639
<snip>
Teenage Chinese swimmer Ye Shiwen is not a drug cheat, the British Olympic Association's chairman has said, after a US coach cast doubt on her world record-breaking swim.

Lord Colin Moynihan said Ye, 16, had passed drug tests, was "clean" and deserved recognition for her talent.

Ye smashed her personal best by at least five seconds in the 400m Medley.

Senior US coach John Leonard said her performance was disturbing and hinted that doping could have been involved.
-----

[hlthe2b]

1. She beat the male time... I think that is what is driving them crazy.

If she did so through drugs--I hope that is exposed.

But, since it appears (at this point) not to be the case--I think this is tremendous.

[seabeyond]

2. or could be history. and yea her but 5 secs? wow.

Seven swimmers tested positive for drugs in the 1994 Asian Games, and four years later four Chinese swimmers failed pre-tournament drug tests before the World Championships in Australia.

[leveymg]

6. No drug can make you swim 5 seconds faster that your personal best.

That came from somewhere deep inside her. It not only announces something important about females in sports, but signals a fundamental shift in the male-female relationship.

I think that's REALLY historic.

[AngryAmish]

11. Except testosterone, dianabol, etc.

Ben Johnson won a gold medal and set a world record. For a while.

Put me in the camp of the skeptics.

Steroids work, that is why folks take them.

[leveymg]

16. All those hormonal drugs work over time. She's been tested and retested for them.

I also find it hard to believe, but until there's some evidence of cheating, I rejoice for her accomplishment. It also makes me hopeful that maybe the human race can evolve. I'd like to see some more evidence of that outside of sports, though.

It's our hearts and minds that really need to grow.

[AngryAmish]

19. The human race is evolving. We just might not like what we are evolving into.

[leveymg]

25. We all have personal choices in the directions we take.

I believe that we largely become what we want, and pass that down to our children, who learn from our mistakes. Then, they make their own.

Call me an optimist.

[Fumesucker]

54. I disagree..

There's many a slip twixt cup and lip, by which I mean that there are many ways to screw up your life that are far from obvious in advance even assuming you have a reasonably normal personality which by no means everyone does..

There was a DU post up a couple of days ago by hifiguy that addressed this very well I thought..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1046083

I was a high-school dropout at 16. After years of pursuing a life of leisurely bass-playing and vending herbal commodities (being a bum, in essence ) I decided to go to college while working at a dry-cleaning shop where the owner's sister-in-law talked me into giving it a shot. Got my GED on a lark, scoring three 99s, a 95 and a 93. Enrolled at the University of Minnesota at the age of 25, where I graduated four years later summa cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa. Was admitted to Harvard Law (and 8 of the other 9 schools to which I applied) and graduated three years later with my J.D. and a B+ average. One of my classmates was one Michelle Robinson, n/k/a Michelle Obama.

Since I graduated I have made $50,000 or more on an annual basis for exactly 60 months out of 24 years. I have been unemployed for 67 months of that time, and under-empoyed for virtually all the rest of that time..

I did it all correctly. Excelled everywhere. Went to the best schools. So why have I failed to the point where my retirement plan - when that day comes in another 10 years or so - is a 9mm pistol and a bullet to the temple?

Simple. I was diagnosed as Asperger's in 2005 while undergoing treatment for a severe depressive episode. I was doomed to fail in the legal profession from the start. It's highly social and I am a fundamentally asocial person with few people skills. Brilliant at certain things but utterly unable to make small talk, ingratiate myself with anyone or understand office politics. I clam up and give one-word answers to people I don't know and trust in situations like job interviews. I also feel incredibly awkward in a suit and never really learned how to be an adult in social terms: never had a date, much less a relationship (now by choice) or ever been able to hold a decent-paying job. When I described Asperger's to a good friend, who was a very high-ranking executive (I met him through our common interest in High End home audio, about which I have written for 15+ years), he said "You not only didn't know the rules, you didn't even know there was a game!" And that's about as concise a description of Asperger's as there is.

[malaise]

13. By how much did FLo Jo improve her PB at the 1988 Olympics

What about Marion Jones?
No country is 'exceptional' when it comes to drugs in sports

[leveymg]

17. You tell me?

[obamanut2012]

38. Yup

And, both of them also had physiques that seriously changed. I am loathe to use the term "manly," but women who use performance-enhancing steroids/hormones exhibit "male" physiques. Some East German women were quite literally changed into men.


"Before the 1988 season, Griffith Joyner's best 100 meter time was 10.96 seconds. In 1988 she improved that by 0.47 seconds (or 0.35 sec for the non-wind aided time). Similarly, her pre-1988 best at 200 meters was 21.96. In 1988 she improved that by 0.62 seconds to 21.34, another time that has not been approached."

I have Marion Jones' PB for 100m and 200m, and the Sydney Games, but am having trouble finding times before 1998.

[WolverineDG]

53. what kills me about the East German girls is that they didn't knowingly use steroids

they were told they were taking "vitamins" by their coaches.

[obamanut2012]

55. I know, and that's what the Chinese girls do, too

They really don't know.

Western Athletes know exactly what the hell they are taking, even if they don't ask.

Juicing is juicing, though, and it isn't fair to the athletes who don't.

And, for all of them, it destroys their bodies and can cause early deaths.

[malaise]

83. Correct re Flo Jo

I'll see what I can find for Marion

[obamanut2012]

39. Some countries are just better at masking the drug use

And making it not appear so obvious.

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. Several of the men beat her over the last 50m; Lochte was fastest overall

However, her world-record time was still 23 seconds slower than Lochte's winning time, and several of Lochte's competitors were faster than her over the final 50m.

Chinese officials also pointed out that Lochte was easing to the finish, comfortably in the lead, whereas Ye had to battle to the end to take first place.

So I think that point isn't really relevant - Lochte wasn't pushed, so he eased up (sensible, given he'll have future events - presumably he had decided not to try for a record).

[xmas74]

34. It's the five seconds, not even that she beat a male.

I have a swimmer in the family and this is about the five seconds.

I'm not racist, I'm not sexist but five seconds-yeah, I'd want it investigated. Five seconds is absolutely mind-boggling. Five seconds in the pool would be like cutting 30 seconds off the world record mile time-something that would be investigated.

You want this to be clean and China has a history of not always being on the up-and-up. They've had a history of their swim team doping in the more recent past. (Since 1990 more than 40 have tested positive and that doesn't include the ones the team pulled at the last minute because complaints were being lodged before the meet.) And it's not just swimming-look at women's gymnastics. They don't play by the rules there either. In 2000 records were falsified and an underage competitor was allowed to compete.

It's not that it's a woman. It's that this is China, with a previous history, and it's five seconds.
Bells would go off in anyone's head.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. Ian Thorpe improved his PB over 400m by 5 seconds between 15 and 16, to get the world record

Australian Ian Thorpe, who has won five Olympic golds, says the way the body develops during the teenage years makes such feats possible.

He says from the age of 15 to 16, his personal best in the 400m freestyle improved by five seconds, allowing him to take the world record.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19061026

Ye was 7 seconds faster than her time last year; but it's not that far ahead of what Thorpe did. No, I don't think "cutting 30 seconds off the world record mile time" is equivalent to this - she broke the old record by 1.02 seconds.

[xmas74]

59. And that too had to be investigated.

Drug tests are usually mandatory after a race. Heck, they can be given after regional junior level races. (Don't believe me-I've watched it happen.)

If it's too fast then yes, it needs to be done.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. And she was tested after the race, and passed

All medal winners are tested in swimming at the Olympics.

[xmas74]

66. Exactly.

Everyone is tested. There can be calls for additional tests to be done, as there was here. This has also been done in the past, especially when the athletes involved have been from countries that have been involved in previous violations. Australia was on a short leash for a long time due to doping.

As recently as this year, an swimmer from China was suspended for doping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Zhesi The swimmer was dropped from the team. This is enough reason for some to demand that further testing be done and it's within their rights.

[hlthe2b]

45. You apparently did not even read my post

Because you certainly have misrepresented
what I "said" to infer so explicitly that
I took the result without question.

My post was actually quite short so I think
actually reading it and not reinterpreting
it is not too much to ask

[JonLP24]

56. Stephanie Rice

Shaved 6 seconds to hit the 4:31:46 mark at the Australian trials. She eventually reduced it under 4:30 to set the record which is now broken.

The person's record she broke shaved even more when Rice set the record.

[xmas74]

62. And you know she was heavily tested.

Australian swimming had a previous problem with doping. They ran her through every test.

[JonLP24]

63. I don't know if she was more than ususual

They give mandotory tests to anyone w/ a medal as well as other tests all Olympians go through.

[xmas74]

64. From what I remember

she was heavily tested. Australia had some problems back in the 80's and 90's-not so far back that it was considered ancient history.

She was tested and heavily so. If there is any suspicion they'll test their samples a few times over-that's what they do in international swimming. Heck, they'll test in junior national swimming.

If you swim too fast the committee wants to know why. That's understandable. If you come from a country with a prior history of not playing by the rules the committee wants to know that everything was on the up-and-up. China has a history of doping-they were found to be using juice back in the mid to late 90's. Some of those in that program back then still have ties.

[JonLP24]

87. If you have information that shows she was tested

more than usual than anyone who gets a medal and record I'd love to see it. So far I haven't seen anything.

The "suspicion" is time when shaving seconds in that range isn't so uncommon. Or at-least, Rice, hasn't had her medals taken for doing that just 4 years ago. Pretty much a lot of countries don't have a clean doping past. There is enough individual desire that "committees" have to worry about everyone, including us. The Olympic Anti-Doper has came out in defense.

[xmas74]

88. No, many countries don't have a clean past.

The difference is that China was testing positive back in June. That's enough of a red flag for anyone.

If your country has athletes that test positive that close to the Olympics you can bet there will be motions filed. It doesn't matter the country-if it had been the US motions would be filed against us too.

[JonLP24]

90. Last night

it was said Phelps shaved 4 seconds from when he was 14 when he set a world record at 16. I don't know if there was motions filed. I can't recall this kind of "controversy" over something that isn't as unique as it is being made out to be.

[Cali_Democrat]

57. She beat the male time for the same event? I don't think so

It's my understanding that she was faster in the last 50m or so, but not the entire event.

[hlthe2b]

70. Why the snark? NPR reported all morning long that her time in the final 50 meters beat

Ryan Lochte's time in the same leg of the men's event.

From NYT: On Saturday night, Ye not only shattered the world record in the 400 individual medley, winning gold in 4 minutes 28.43 seconds, she also swam the final 50 meters faster than Ryan Lochte did in winning the men’s race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/sports/olympics/chinese-swimmers-record-raises-doping-concerns.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Obviously NOT the same event> Men don't compete against women in Olympic swimming. --Boy, seems that has struck some male nerves...

[mathematic]

71. You posted flamebait, that's why

Trying to make this about male pride is ridiculous. Men are faster than women. Everybody knows it. It's a fact as sure as it's a fact that men are taller than women and that women have higher hip to waist ratios than men. Heck, I'm some nobody that's never been competitive on any level and yet at my fastest there were no more than a couple hundred american women faster than me, maybe even fewer. To suggest that people are suspicious of Ye's time because of gender pride is sexist. People are suspicious of Ye's time because it's an unbelievable performance in the post-swimsuit ban era. I mean she swam the freestyle in the 400m IM only 10% slower than its done in the regular 100m freestyle! The usual time is about 20% slower, for men and women.

Also, her 16 year old teammate was busted for EPO last month and the chinese have a long history of doping in swimming. Yet somehow the first thing you suggest behind the suspicion is male pride. What the heck.

[hlthe2b]

73. That's ridiculous.. but if I had meant that, you certainly would have proven the point.

My gawd we have a lot of insecurity floating freely around here.

[mathematic]

76. I'm glad you see the validity of my argument.

We'll let the reader decide if the premise is applicable.

[Cali_Democrat]

72. Ummm....what did I say that was snark?

I just said that for the 400IM, she didn't beat the male time. You said she beat the male time, but she didn't.

Saying she didn't beat the male time in the event is snark? What in the world?

[hlthe2b]

75. No.. reading comprehension is important.

That is not what I said. She beat Ryan Lochte's time for the final 50 meters in the same leg of the men's event.

[Cali_Democrat]

77. In your post that I first replied to, you said:

"She beat the male time...... I think that is what is driving them crazy.

If she did so through drugs--I hope that is exposed.

But, since it appears (at this point) not to be the case--I think this is tremendous. "

You made no mention of..."the final 50 meters in the same leg of the men's event."

I simply clarified. Again....I wasn't trying to be snarky in any way. That was definitely not my intention. In fact, I think it would be a wonderful feat if she did beat the male time for the same event. She was faster in the final 50m which is impressive anyways.

I really think you misunderstood me.

[hlthe2b]

78. I didn't specify... that is a long way from your misrepresenting by "filling in' what you wanted me

to be saying-- so as to set up your strawman's argument. Don't be disingenuous.

[Cali_Democrat]

79. You didn't secifiy the 50m and I did

Sorry if you feel that was snark. That was not my intention.

[HappyMe]

3. I just heard that she passed all the drug tests.

[obamanut2012]

40. That, unfortunately, means nothing

As sports history shows us.

[leveymg]

48. Well, then, every other Olympic medal and record means nothing

as sports history shows us.

[Are_grits_groceries]

4. I still have doubts.

The people working to improve athletic performance also include those with labs. There is no way of knowing if there is some new substance that has been created that doesn't show up on the tests in place now.

The serious dopers will always be a step ahead. The Chinese Government and its resources are a formidable challenge.

[ananda]

8. Not only are there new designer drugs..

.. but there's now also something called
genetic manipulation.

This sounds like the world of futurist scifi,
but it's here now.. and to me it's scary,
fukkin scary.

[MADem]

5. With a name like "Yay, She Win!" she is well named. nt

[earthside]

7. Faster than a man; not an American ...

... and Chinese for Chrissake.

There must be drugs involved.

: :

[ananda]

9. Take the sarcasm off.

It's not normal for a woman to be faster than a man,
period.

[spanone]

12. bwahahahahahaaa

[sibelian]

85. Just a little gripe here, but

see that little dot at the end of your setence? That IS a period. So you don't actually have to say "period". It's redundant.

Just my little gripe.

[HappyMe]

14. lol!

If an American swimmer was being accused, it would be 'HOW DARE THEY!', 'SOUR GRAPES!'.

[cali]

22. nope. there would be questions no matter where the swimmer was from.

Why? Because of her own history and because women simply do not have the upper body capacity of men- not in elite swimming.

[JonLP24]

61. Only the final 50m

was faster than Lochte. Lochte had the race in hand while Ye had to turn on the burners. She was slower overall and slower 50m than several males.

Her own history isn't as impressive as prior record holder who shaved 6 seconds in the trials and 8 overall in Beijing.

[obamanut2012]

41. Not from me

And, Americans aren't the only athletes and coaches saying this. Not by a long shot. They know.

[xmas74]

36. Five seconds off her time

and from a country with a very public recent history of doping?

It's not about being a woman. It's about the time. When you do something that fast it needs to be investigated and not just for the sake of the sport. The young woman (or man, in other events) should be tested for their own safety. These kids do what they're told by their coaches and not everyone has their safety in mind.

I'm glad to hear that she passed. I really am. I have a swimmer at home who is just in awe of what has happened. But drugs shouldn't be allowed in the sports, especially with these kids who are still developing. They have no idea what the future holds with years of doping. If nothing else, catching someone with a positive might save their lives.

[bemildred]

10. Awesome swim.

[jberryhill]

15. In other news, Olympic official discovers hotel companion "unclean"

[Romulox]

18. Their STILL finding new drugs in L. Armstrong's blood from 10 years ago. IOC resolves this in a day?

That's not credible.

[cali]

20. bullshit. totally incongruent with her history.

I'm not buying for one single second.

[spanone]

24. history?

British weightlifter Gareth sets THREE personal bests
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-2181509/London-2012-Olympics-Gareth-Evans-sets-personal-bests.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Olympics 2012: Julie Culley set two personal bests on way to upcoming 5000-meter run
http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2012/07/olympics_2012_culley_set_two_p.html

Weightlifter Zoe Smith celebrates personal best at London 2012 Olympics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2012/jul/31/weightlifter-zoe-smith-olympics-video

[malaise]

31. I didn't buy Flo Jo either n/t

[obamanut2012]

42. Me either, or Marion Jones

You could tell they were doping.

[Blue_Tires]

21. That is a surprise

Just by sheer chance I happened to be watching that event with a couple of friends, and when I saw her win by like 3 seconds I yelled at the TV: "Now make her pee in a cup and see what comes out!!"


(I think I just like saying "pee in a cup" because it makes me giggle like a schoolgirl)

[Bonobo]

23. If a woman suddenly lifted more weight than a male weightlifting champ...

It would be obvious.

[leveymg]

27. If you look at the improvement in women's times in swimming, the curve is far steeper than for men.

This is not only possible, but the curves in the graphs show it was going to happen about now. She's an outlier, but this can happen. See, http://www.isds.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/131.wainer.pdf

[LanternWaste]

58. that too would be obvious...

If a poster had a history of minimizing positive achievements for its own sake, that too would be obvious.

[Atman]

26. The people most upset are...

...Ryan Lochte's licensing agents.

[obamanut2012]

28. Marion Jones tested clesn, too -- Ye is dirty

Too much of a huge leap in performance, and her built is exactly like all of the Chinese and East German swimmers who doped.

I cannot be convinced she is clean.

After doping tests improved, female Chinese swimmers disappeared. The tests were improved because of how the Chinese just suddenly had all of these huge, beefy female swimmers who kicked ass in international comps... athletes who just appeared out of nowhere.

Like the Soviets and ESPECIALLY East Germans before them, I am convinced the Chinese sports folks either have some gnarly new juice or juice maskers they are using.

During the Olympics, I root for whomever I like. I am far from a nationalist. I also believe in fair play, and loathe juicing. I know quite a few do it, but when it is this obvious and in your face, it disgusts me.

I don't blame Ye -- refusal to dope would be very bad for her and her family.

[cleduc]

29. Bob Beamon's World Record Long Jump - 1968 Olympics

I don't know what to believe. Too bad drugs have tainted the Olympics so much.

It did remind me of this amazing Olympic moment.

[KurtNYC]

32. Congratulations to Ye Shiwen. Inspiring performance.

To doubters: She is now 16 years old and developing rapidly. Her time improvement from last year to this record is -2.5%. 12 months of growth in her frame alone could explain such a gain of speed. Also, the Olympics love records being broken and they build the tracks and pools to help the records be broken.

She passed the drug tests -- no Epogen, no nada. Time to give her credit (and optionally, an apology).

[G_j]

33. +100

[HappyMe]

35. Thank you.

[polly7]

43. This! Good for her, it was an amazing performance.

I'll believe her until its proven otherwise.

[Are_grits_groceries]

44. None of that helps her turns

or form which are horrible.Her physique has changed, but where does that added speed come from? I doubt that her body has grown in some presribed way that aids her. All athletes hit this growth spurt with different results. Few,if any, have gone FIVE seconds faster.

The pool has not gone through some radical design since the last Olympics. In addition, they banned those swimsuits that aided the swimmer. If the pool was that much of a help, there would be many more records falling by larger times.

The drug tests are always looking for what is known. The dopers are developing methods that will not show up. WADA will catch up and people will be caught. However, the cheats are already moving on to something else.

I will remain suspicious of her times because the Chinese have been caught too many times. I wish I wasn't so jaded, but there have been too many people cheating who swear they are clean. That's too bad. It would be nice to be abe to give her 100% creit.

[bhikkhu]

46. One thing that has changed is training methods

and in all sports, the science behind training to optimal performance has driven improvements. The best Chinese swimmers trained in Australia, with the best coaches in the world. Ian Thorpe's coach says Ye Shiwen's times aren't suspect, and its always amusing to see the fastest individuals in many sports have their form criticized...

[KurtNYC]

47. I want to see Bob Costas do those turns.

The pool used here was custom built recently for these games and the manufacturer brags about the latest speed helping features:

Instead of concrete, Myrtha uses a combination of PVC and steel that proves durable, waterproof, and resistant to turbulence that can slow swimmers. Myrtha built pools for the European Championships in 1987, and business for national and international events took off. "The swimming community started to see that not only could we build the instatllation very quickly," McGrath says. "But our technology is at the highest levels."

http://www.mysuncoast.com/news/local/story/Sarasota-company-built-pools-for-London-Olympics/AAQAwesbYEa_QegHz04F_g.cspx

She has a very high power to weight ratio with large feet and hands. She did a 4:33 9 in a different pool 2 years ago, at age 14. Now a 4:31 3 after 2 more years of training and growth. Good for her!

[obamanut2012]

49. 100% agree

[xmas74]

68. I've had a few posters here argue with me about how it's sour grapes.

My family is involved in swimming. A teammate of my child's swims AA times and she's only on the junior level. (Incredible-if puberty doesn't wreck havoc on her, as it sometimes does, I'll pass along her name. She's someone to watch.) A friend's child was at the US Trials.

This isn't sour grapes. No one loves to see records broken more than a swimmer. A new record gives them a goal to work towards. The problem is that we have so many now are creating newer and better juices that aren't detected at this time. Personally, I hope she did it legally-that's an incredibly exciting moment.

The suit ban was wonderful. I remember the day the decision was handed down quite well.

As to her form and turns-my kid watched the race and made a comment about how if she had made a turn like that at a meet she would stand a chance of being DQ'd. All you need is one judge and it's all over. I've watched events where the stroke was cleaner than what she put out yesterday and have watched the kid DQ'd for it.

[obamanut2012]

74. Yup

[siligut]

82. I am watching Faux, and they discussed this

The gist is that there are new and more sophisticated performance enhancing drugs and the Chinese apparently do research in this area (like we don't), this also means they are refined and may not be detected with the tests we have now. However, the urine is saved so it can continue to be tested.

Then they talked about genetic enhancement and how the girl has flippers for feet. No kidding, I guess she is 5'8" with size 10 feet, it can happen, but it isn't common. There was also further concern about Chinese training methods, basically if a child shows signs, that child is put into a camp and the training is grueling, they couldn't show the pictures, gasp.

So it was actually informative, but mildly xenophobic.

[JonLP24]

50. Congrats to her

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Good for her. It was an amazing swim despite the sour grapes.

[southernyankeebelle]

52. Sometimes americans can be bad sports. Shame on trying to ruin a young girls reputation.

I am in a China fan but the girl won fair and square and she beat the guy's time. I say be a good sport and stop harping and remember what the Olympics is suppose to be about.

[xmas74]

67. China has had problems with athletes doping

and it's within recent memory. It's not sour grapes but a bad reputation for the country involved.

It'll take a few years for China to get past its reputation.That's the way it goes, especially when you have swimmers who are still currently under suspension. Until then, they should just expect to have their wins be questioned. Australia went through it too and it's a black mark on their swimming record.

[southernyankeebelle]

69. Maybe so but it sure would have been nice if made his complaint to the officials in private.

It makes the americans look like sour grapes.

[Romulox]

80. "It makes the americans look like sour grapes."??? That doesn't make any sense.

Sour grapes doesn't even fit this situation:

Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves.

[southernyankeebelle]

89. Chill friend, it's just an expression. You are entitled to your opinion OK. Don't make a

mountain out of a mole hill. An expression.

[Romulox]

91. It's not my opinion. It's called "Aesop's Fables". That's where the expression came from. nt

[southernyankeebelle]

92. Thanks for the information

[xmas74]

84. There was an athlete pulled from Chinese Swim in June

for testing positive. In June. It shows that they didn't even give a darn that they would be tested so close to the games-they still did it anyway.

If an American had pulled off the same accomplishment do you think there would have been a pat on the back and a hearty "Congrats!"? Nope. There would have been rampant speculation and I'd place China in the top three of countries filing complaints. And they would be public-very public.

This is the nature of sports. This is the nature of swimming. The swimming world is shockingly tight knit. Everyone on that level knows each other and anything out of the expected will be investigated to be sure that it was on the up-and-up. And it should be: every country cheats if they can get away with it.

[Robb]

81. Well, obviously that clears everything up.

[FarLeftFist]

86. Good for her. A 5 sec improvement is OUTSTANDING!