The Starbucks story/issue is NOT about trespassing, ordering, bathrooms, etc.

[Eliot Rosewater]

Last edited Wed Apr 18, 2018, 04:32 PM - Edit history (2)

It is about one set of rules for non POC and one set of rules for POC.

Hey you attorneys, help me out here, explain why you would love one of these cases!

[matt819]

1. It's actually about a lot of things

And your point is a major one.

It's also about the role of the police. Are they there to do the bidding of whoever calls them, or are they there to exercise judgement, defuse tensions, etc.? After all, look at the situation in NJ re LA Fitness. Cops were called and essentially helped verify that the African-American guy had every right to be there and that the police had no role in the matter.

[JI7]

2. Both are about racism

[LanternWaste]

6. Remove racism from both incidents, and both incidents would not have occurred.

Remove racism from both incidents, and both incidents would not have occurred.

Hence, it is about race... the rest being merely window dressing hoping, yet failing to achieve relevance.

[blake2012]

23. Im curious. Why are your posts and some other peoples always having same first sentence as

Your post title? Do you use some 3rd party posting tool that does this?

[JustAnotherGen]

31. heh heh heh

You noticed that too? I've always wondered about that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. My voice to text does that on DU. Just a guess

If you voice the title box it auto repeats in the body when you move the cursor

[trof]

3. Who asks to use the men's room in a restaurant?

I've gone straight to the men's room before being seated or ordering before.
I don't get the part about them asking.
Is Starbucks different?
Do you need a key?
Never been in one.

[oberliner]

8. You need a code to use the bathroom

[BumRushDaShow]

10. In some locations in downtown areas

Last edited Wed Apr 18, 2018, 05:31 PM - Edit history (2)

the bathrooms are locked (like what often happens with gas station bathrooms in many places) and either require a key or the keycode (for those that are locked with a keypad).

This is to be able to monitor use and keep "riff raff" out.

Fortunately I have never had to use a restaurant bathroom because I rarely go to them, but I remember being at one (non-Starbucks) Coffee place and saw a bathroom key attached to a foot-long block of wood that itself was hung on a hook near a cashier. And people would ask for the key and then return it when they were done.

[trof]

11. Ah. Thank you both.

[Demsrule86]

16. You need a key in this starbucks...only one I have ever heard of that requires a key. They

refused the gentleman a key but gave to a white person who had ordered nothing.

[Staph]

4. May I slightly reword your comment?

I think that "it is about one set of rules for white people, and one set of rules for non-white people." I suspect that a group of Hispanic folks or Native Americans would have the same issue. Not so sure about Asians.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Yes, I need to change that, I have to be careful, if I use the W word it will be pounced on

cant say more

[JI7]

12. Depends but black people and particularly black men get it worse

[Staph]

21. Definitely!

[uponit7771]

7. Looks like Starbucks corporation does ... NOT ... have bathroom purchase policy

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10511518

[oberliner]

9. Each store can set their own rules

Different rules for stores in big cities - which makes sense.

[EffieBlack]

13. True, but the store in question didnt have a rule - at least not outside of the managers head

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. VERY doubtful ANY Starbuck's store has different rule from another since ALL of them in USA

are company owned, or if not all 99.9% of them.

[Demsrule86]

18. I don't get folks defending what happened at Starbucks...shocking and troubling.

[EffieBlack]

20. Not just defending it but doubling, tripling and quadrupling down,

making up law and mischaracterizing the law and arguing as if their lives depend on it.

What’s up with that?

[Demsrule86]

22. I don't understand this...it seems very clear to me.

[oberliner]

25. Understood

Nothing about the way this store handled this is good at all.

[Demsrule86]

17. No it doesn't. There should be universal company dictated policies in every

store...so racist scumbucket managers cannot have innocent POC arrested.

[oberliner]

28. Yes, of course it does

If you didn't have time limits and requirements for purchasing something at the stores around Times Square, for instance, no one would ever be able to get a seat for even two minutes.

[Demsrule86]

34. That is different. Apples and oranges, and let me just say I spent a considerable amount of time

in Times Square and never ran into any rules for purchasing stuff...is that another rule reserved for POC? Again I will say this different rules will allow racist managers and employees of any company to profile people of color. I am sure it is not your intention to help those inclined towards bigotry, but your position as stated here would help them continue in their modern Jim Crow attacks on POC.

[oberliner]

60. Have you ever sat at a Starbucks near Times Square and not purchased anything?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. One of the Starbucks by me removed all the seating to avoid problems.

It’s a corner where a lot of homeless kids hand out and there has been a big uptick in crime. Daylight robberies etc.

So now nobody gets to sit.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. Different rules for different stores will be the FIRST thing plaintiffs atty will POUNCE on so

that aint gonna happen.

[EffieBlack]

43. Different rules regarding purchases for different stores isnt a problem at all, as far as I can see

As long as the policies for each store are uniformly enforced.

[Eliot Rosewater]

44. Oh I think if they have rules allowing loiterers in one store and not another

and the store it is allowed in is in Beverly Hills and the store it isnt allowed in is in Watts, they would have civil litigation problems.


Or OK at Nob Hill store and not East Oakland store, well it would be West Oakland actually.

[EffieBlack]

45. I dont think so

There are rational business justifications for not allowing loitering and those can be impacted by where the store is located.

Many chains have different loitering rules depending on where they are and that’s perfectky ok.

[EffieBlack]

38. I dont think all stores need to have the same policy

Nothing wrong with individual stores to have different policies suited to their unique situations. But the policy in each store needs to be applied uniformly to everyone patronizing that location.

[oberliner]

61. 100 percent agree

On all points.

[Demsrule86]

19. Oh and I have to say...such policies do not make sense. Why would you do this? So

you can keep 'undesirables' out I guess...disgusting if true. I go to Starbucks in Cleveland all the time and they don't have such policies.

[oberliner]

29. They make perfect sense

There literally would never be anyplace to sit at any Starbucks in NYC if you let people stay indefinitely without making a purchase.

[Demsrule86]

35. I actually have spent time in Starbucks in New York...and sat there for hours...so

I don't buy that. Also you are basically addressing the wrong issue. This is not an issue of a person taking too much time or needing to go if he/she didn't buy something. This is a policy reserved for POC. While this event was happening a white woman who purchased nothing was given permission to use the bathroom...a key or a code...forget which...so basically. Your argument if implemented, would allow racist employees at all levels to discriminate...and based on Starbucks response, I don't think that will happen.

[ExciteBike66]

30. The office in which I work has a code on the bathroom in the lobby

because there actually was a homeless guy living in it for a time.

That said, the bank employees down in the lobby branch bank always let people in if they need it, regardless of whether or not they are a customer.

[Demsrule86]

36. Yeah...well, let's make sure homeless people need to pee in the street...after all they are just

animals unworthy to be treated as human beings (sarcasm). Nice. Good for the bank Boo on your company.

[ExciteBike66]

41. To be fair to the building managers (not the bank or my firm, mind you)

having a homeless man camping in your restroom is a real problem. It was more than just going in to pee and leaving.

That said, we are fortunate to be situated in an area that doesn't have many homeless people wandering the streets (suburban Central Florida). Since the locks on the door, I have never seen a homeless person in or around the building.

I think you and I would agree that communities need public restrooms and need to handle homeless people with empathy.

[Demsrule86]

46. I have no doubt...yep I agree. But since florida has made homelessness a crime that

won't happen.

[ExciteBike66]

59. As a Florida Dem I am hopeful for a change in posture down here

Our current repub governor will be trying to run for Senate, so we will have an opportunity at the state level.

[radius777]

56. Vagrancy and civil rights are two different things

Starbucks brands itself as a meetup type place, not a homeless shelter, which is a gov't problem that should be provided for.

These black gentelmen were not homeless nor lower class, but simply normal customers wanting to meetup w/another guy who is also (iirc) a realtor.

IOW, they were using Starbuck's as it brands itself, and should be treated like everyone else who uses it for that purpose.

[ExciteBike66]

58. I agree

My original point was about bathroom locks in general.

[pnwmom]

55. Do you have an official Starbucks link saying that? I read that somewhere

but not from any kind of official spokesperson, so I'm wondering.

[pansypoo53219]

14. my barefoot pal & i, both barefoot used the bathroom at the pfisters hotel.

posh grand 1800's hotel. had no problems, but we are white. but basketball teams stay there....barefeet less transgressive?

[mcar]

24. K&R

[PoliticAverse]

27. It's about whether Starbucks is discriminating on the basis of race, which violates federal law. n/t

[MichMan]

32. I think that particular Starbucks might have to close down

Maybe I am wrong, but I expect the store to be inundated by protesters staying for hours without ordering and keeping paying customers from being seated

[Demsrule86]

37. Well then all those employees who participated will look for a new job...really my heart breaks.

[MichMan]

51. so will the ones that didn't have anything to do with it

[Demsrule86]

57. I would be surprised if it would close and the innocent would probably be sent to another store

if it did. But there were more folks than the manager involved.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. Racism costs money

but racists were always willing to spend money to do their thing -







And they got their negroes out of the store so Mission Accomplished!111!!!!!!!

[uppityperson]

48. Use tongs or a fork to remove the bacon from the pan, set on a paper towel to absorb the excess fat.

Don't pour the bacon fat left in the pan down the drain! Either sop it up with paper towels when it has cooled a bit, or pour it into a jar to be used later (see rendering bacon fat).

[greatauntoftriplets]

49. Rendered bacon fat!

[uppityperson]

50. Don't pour the bacon fat left in the pan down the drain!

Eventually we'll get through Eggs Benedict recipe.

[greatauntoftriplets]

52. I use the paper towel method.

My mother used to save old coffee cans for that purpose, but since I don't drink it, that doesn't work. Hard to put hot grease into an old teabag box.

[Fla Dem]

53. Soup can works just as well! 🤣

[greatauntoftriplets]

54. An empty tomato can would too.

I tend to have more of those!