I've lost all respect for Katy Tur

[RandomAccess]

And I doubt she has any chance of recovering.

She was on MTP this afternoon and spent some time blaming the "hyperpartisanship" on both sides.

That, as I'm sure all of you know, is pure nonsense.

It's not that I doubt there's partisanship on our side, it's just that:

1) We didn't start it -- it's been going on since Obama was elected and maybe since Gingrich's ascendency

2) Not every choice by any Democrat to oppose legislation or nominees, etc, is a purely partisan decision. Most, IMO, are highly principled.

3) There IS no possibility of bipartisanship with this crop of RepublCONS. You give a little, they'll take lots more, and NEVER return the favor.

Does she REALLY want Democrats nodding and agreeing and voting for and passing ALL the shit that Republicans want in service to bipartisanship? That's what it would require -- Dems just caving, and caving, and caving.

Her attitude also explains to me why -- and I find this true of Kasie too -- she often asks questions that are intentionally provocative or at least aimed at the Democratic party's soft spots at the moment just for controversy's sake, such as questions about whether whoever's in front of her is going to support Pelosi for Speaker or not, for example. And she can really push and push on questions like that too, completely ignoring far more important, tho less sexy and fun, issues at hand.

I had thought she was a good reporter, though I've been disappointed with her performance as an anchor, but this totally ends that for me. She's done.

[CrispyQ]

1. I've noticed she's much more conservative when she's hosting Chuckie Todd's show. -nt

[RandomAccess]

7. She wasn't hosting -- a guest

[kstewart33]

40. I think Katy Tur is right.

Hyper partisanship exists on both sides. Yes, it is worse with the Republicans but we're not perfect. I have to catch myself when I fall into stereotypical thinking about Trump supporters. They're not all stupid and messed up. Their major problem is they trust Fox News and right wing talk radio. Many also live in rural areas where the education system is failing.

The right and left spend too much time calling each other names. So Katy, who was on the front lines for over a year, knows first hand what she is talking about.

[JHB]

78. Which is the more salient point:

That there's turf on both sides of the line of scrimmage?

Or that the ball is on the 5 yard line?

Sure, there's always hyperpartisanship at the edges, but for the Republicans it is not merely at the edges but the driving force within the party. They are intertwined with what amounts to a 24/7 Two-Minute-Hate apparatus that encourages and rewards pushing hyperpartisanship to new depths.

Their opposite numbers aren't Democrats or even most lefties, it would be outright Maoists.

There's simply no comparison.

[kstewart33]

86. As I posted, hyper partisanship exists on both sides.

True, the Republicans are far worse in this respect, but we're not faultless. I think that was KT's point.

[pbmus]

2. I do not always blame the host,,,,

They have producers whispering in her ear....

[RandomAccess]

6. She was a guest

[pbmus]

10. Ok, then its the Todd effect...

[rainin]

3. For so many of these hosts, the MIDDLE is now Conservative Republicans.

Establishment republicans are the "reasonable" ones who can't get anything done because of the hyperpartisans on "both sides". It's ridiculous, but we get this because we aren't creating our own media. This is corporate media, after all.

[Hortensis]

72. So true. The voting record of the Republican congress

is almost entirely to the right of the positions of the Republican electorate, not exactly liberals themselves, with only some overlap, but with almost all the house vote not overlapping at all. Yet, some are calling the Koch (Freedom) caucus the "conservatives" and the others then default to "moderate." Conservative is not a relative term, it's a real thing with specific personality characteristics; only where conservatives fall on the conservative spectrum varies.

I realized some time ago that Katie Tur is not an ethical journalist but merely an ambitious one simply by waiting to see her cover Hillary and see how she handled that test. Those on daytime TV especially have to badmouth/attack if they want to be invited back, and she met the test with aggressive hostility. She's done well for herself, though, or perhaps Trump has. But she won't hold onto per position because I watch her.

[dameatball]

4. Everyone has their own theory about when Repubs took over the debate......

As for me, I am old enough to remember Goldwater, Reagan, Bush, etc....but when that dipshit form SC(?) yelled "You lie?" during Obama's State of the Union.....you knew then that nothing would ever be the same unless the GOP, his own party, divested itself of him. They did not. Since then it has been a different animal as far as how our politics are conducted.

[RandomAccess]

11. That was certainly a pinnacle of hyperpartisanship, for sure

but it wasn't for me the beginning. When the Republicans refused to participate in ANYTHING Obama wanted, despite the fact that he gave away so much in the effort, that was the beginning of the worst and what, IMO, Tur needs to brush up on if she's opining on hyperpartisanship.

[dameatball]

15. Many different mile markers along the path for sure....:)

[not fooled]

73. Yep

it's been going on a long time but the cons with their billionaire backers funding large-scale propaganda efforts + corporate takeover of the media = perceptions have been pushed farther and farther to the right. Remember that Obama said that decades ago he would have been a moderate Republican.

The public, when polled on actual policy not associated with labels, wants DEMOCRATIC PARTY policies. Everything else is just putting window dressing on the dark money billionaire takeover of our country culminating in the installation of donnie. Now they are looting everything and we are just supposed to sit back and take it.

[JHB]

80. It's been a quarter century since Newt called Democrats "the enemy...

...of normal Americans", and encourage other Republicans to follow his example. For which he was rewarded with the House Speakership.

If one were to list all "Clinton scandals", then use a red marker to cross out all the ones that were either puffed-up horseshit or pure wingnut fever dreams, the paper would look like a prop from the set of a slasher flick. But the fogbank of steam rising off these turdballs let them constantly point to the cloud and say "Where there's smoke..."

Hyperpartisanship has been he Republican norm for a long, long time.

[Egnever]

42. I think that is a good plot point.

I would agree that was the day when all pretense of cordiality died in congress.

[JHB]

81. Not "died". It was deliberately killed. By Republicans.

Who had been strangling it for years.

[MontanaMama]

5. While I think she went through hell

covering the Dotard during the campaign, I find her difficult to watch/listen to on MSNBC. Maybe it is just the format of MTP Daily...maybe it’s her tone of voice and unmeasured delivery, maybe she channels stupid Chuck Todd too often and maybe it’s the combination of all of it. Seems like she shoots from the hip a lot too. She’s not my favorite.

[RandomAccess]

13. Well, Todd was there, so he channeled himself

She was just a panelist

[MontanaMama]

19. I wasnt watching/listening

and Katy often hosts that show. When Chuck is on I definitely turn it off. He’s awful and so is his show.

[doc03]

8. It is not on one side and it never began with Obama. I remember back when "W"

was president we had plenty of it here on DU. The Bushes were called the Bush crime family. I remember
accusations "W" and a right wing reporter had a gay relationship. There were accusations that "W" was using cocaine.
So it has been around a while but it seems to get worse every year.

[LanternWaste]

12. I'd love to see a documented reference to that

" I remember accusations "W" and a right wing reported had a gay relationship..."

I'd love to see a documented reference to that; but I completely understand if you're unable or unwilling to do so.

[doc03]

20. I see you have been here since 2003, you must have a selective memory.

There were lots of accusations back then. Just saying it didn't just start when Obama became president.
I remember when JFK was shot hearing people say they finally killed the SOB.

[Egnever]

44. Here ya go

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2983446

[RandomAccess]

17. You don't think there was any reason for the Bushes to be

called the Bush Crime Family? Or do you think even if they were, they shouldn't be called that??

Ans if it IS true (and I maintain that it is), why would it be hyperpartisan to use the term?

[Mr.Bill]

55. Globally, the Bush family makes the Trump family

look like they are running a candy story and skimming cash from the register.

The Bushes have held positions as high as Congress for three generations, and they are working on a fourth. Two of them were president. Even the Kennedys pale as a political dynasty compared to the Bushes.

[Exotica]

75. How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Snip

[RandomAccess]

89. Oh, gosh. Thanks for telling me all that. I didn't know.

[JI7]

22. None of the craziest shit is pushed by Democrats in office

[eShirl]

34. and before that Republicans and Rush Limbaugh had it out for the Clintons

[Bluepinky]

37. I remember some rumors about W, but not so pervasive as those against Democrats.

It’s not really accurate to say both sides do it, at least not to the same extent. There was some whispering that W used cocaine and that he and Karl Rove were secret lovers, but no serious talk of this.

But with Obama, he was hammered by Republicans for years over lots of things, that he wasn’t born in the USA, that he was a Muslim (not that there’s anything wrong with that), that he never had a real job before he ran for public office, that he got into Harvard only because of Affirmative Action.

[Egnever]

46. Oh I don't know we hated shrub with a white hot passion here when he was in office.

Much of it justified but still there was lots of nasty shade thrown his way with no real basis in fact.

[Bluepinky]

65. Not true, a lot of the hatred toward him was based in fact. He was a horrible president.

First of all, he didn’t actually win the election, he was appointed by the US Supreme Court. It was said later that Gore had actually won more votes in Florida than Bush did, had they bothered to count them.

Bush administration wasn’t paying attention and 9/11 happened on his watch. And how did the administration handle it? They lied to us about weapons of mass destruction and invaded Iraq, despite warnings that it was a war that couldn’t be won and would destabilize the Middle East. In addition, he passed two tax cuts that mostly benefited wealthy people, never paying for the war. He ran up huge dept during his presidency, and Obama inherited a recession when Bush’s time was up. His Supreme Court passed Citizens United. The 2008 Financial Crisis happened during his time in the White House.

[Bluepinky]

66. Not true, a lot of the hatred toward him was based in fact. He was a horrible president.

First of all, he didn’t actually win the election, he was appointed by the US Supreme Court. It was said later that Gore had actually won more votes in Florida than Bush did, had they bothered to count them.

Bush administration wasn’t paying attention and 9/11 happened on his watch. And how did the administration handle it? They lied to us about weapons of mass destruction and invaded Iraq, despite warnings that it was a war that couldn’t be won and would destabilize the Middle East. In addition, he passed two tax cuts that mostly benefited wealthy people, never paying for the war. He ran up huge dept during his presidency, and Obama inherited a recession when Bush’s time was up. His Supreme Court passed Citizens United. The 2008 Financial Crisis happened during his time in the White House.

[JHB]

82. How many people here are national-level elected officials?

Or party leadership and major campaighn aides?

[PatSeg]

9. I think the hyperpartisanship

went back to Newt Gingrich during the Clinton years and got much worse during the Obama years. The republican party was still operating by the Gingrich rules and using the Atwater style dirty tricks.

I do hate the false equivalency arguments, but for the most part I like Katy Tur. I'm not crazy about Kasie Hunt though.

[Bluepinky]

35. Yes, I agree with you. And Newt had a lot to do with it.

The Republicans went crazy when Clinton was elected and even crazier when he was elected a second time. They made sure he got nothing accomplished during his second term, he was all tied up with the Monica affair.
If you want to talk about a witch hunt, the Republicans spent millions of dollars looking for anything to convict Clinton of.

[BigmanPigman]

48. Meanwhile hypocrite Newt was having his own affair.

I think he definitely played a large part in making the GOP go lower and become the more stubborn, obstructionist party that it is today.

[Bluepinky]

69. Newt has definitely done his part to make the Republican Party the Reprehensible Party.

[PatSeg]

64. That is for sure

No one does a witch hunt better than republicans. They were and still are the worst losers in the world. Their reaction to Bill Clinton's presidency was totally bizarre and incomprehensible. I guess they were headed toward the crime family presidency we're seeing today. As a party, they stand for nothing and only care about winning at any cost.

[Bluepinky]

68. I would be ashamed to call myself a Republican with the bozos in the party today.

They seem to stand for greed, selfishness, bigotry, ignorance, intolerance, corruption and extravagance.

I could never understand why they hated Bill Clinton (and Hillary) so much, it really was bizarre. I remember being angry that they did so much to undermine his presidency, not allowing him to fulfill his promises to the majority of citizens who voted for him. They cheated us.

[PatSeg]

87. Yes they did

And I think Clinton would have and could have been a more liberal president, if he'd had a more reasonable congress to work with. Obviously, the same goes for Obama as well.

I suppose the reason republicans don't appear to have any real identity is because they tend to be sheep. You rarely see an independent idea or ideology, as they all speak with one voice, often in prepared talking points (thanks Newt). But the most disturbing trait is their aggressive and sleazy attacks on the opposition. Its like one big board game and when they don't get their way, they throw tantrums, tossing the board and all the pieces. A pretty worthless bunch.

[TeamPooka]

14. She's a hack who softballed Trump the entire campaign every chance she got to ask a question.

[dalton99a]

21. +1. There is a lot of Stockholm syndrome in her

[TeamPooka]

23. She used the oversaturation of Trump coverage to move ahead, so good for her on the office politics

but that's about all I can compliment her on.
and yes she does have some Stockholm syndrome going on there.

[RandomAccess]

28. Hadn't thought of that

Good point

[CatMor]

32. I agree that she soft balled trump the whole campaign...

I was frustrated with her lack of any toughness covering the campaign. trump walked all over her. I'm not impressed with her at all.

[octoberlib]

16. This "both sides are the same" crap is dangerous. It normalizes authoritarianism and bigotry.

If an American Hitler ran for office , they'd be doing the same thing.

[RandomAccess]

18. Good point

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. "ran for office"

Hell, we now have one occupying the damn office.

[octoberlib]

31. You're right. We do.

[Mike Nelson]

24. I think she may be...

...auditioning for her own show.

[Kirk Lover]

25. You mean the one she already has?

[Mike Nelson]

29. Didn't know she had one...

...don't watch Chuck's, either, unless there's a big story!

[Kirk Lover]

27. That's pretty much all it takes is one comment that I don't like or don't agree with and

you're done. NOT.

[RandomAccess]

30. First, it was more -- much more -- than "one comment"

Second, I've had complaints about her up to this point -- and voiced them here as well.

Third, I also said in my OP -- did you read it? Might want to read it again -- that I'd thought she was a good reporter but that I'd been disappointed with her as an anchor. Does that imply my dissatisfaction is about ONE COMMENT only?

[EffieBlack]

70. IKR?

[Baitball Blogger]

33. If it weren't for progressives, centrist wouldn't have

Any traction. They have rolled over for decades and called it compromise. Let's face it, the republicans are out of control because they just kept getting their way. Why would they change? It has worked for them for so long. Crimminy, if they destroy their own party it's because they were given enough rope to hang themselves.

[RandomAccess]

36. Too true, sadly

[mythology]

38. She is objectively correct whether you want to believe it or not

Partisanship is at all time highs. You are aware that Republicans would say the same thing that Democrats never compromise, that they are taking principled stands right?

The percentage of the party that identifies as liberal has risen from 30% to about 50% since 2002, with moderates dropping from about 50% to mid 30s% and conservatives dropping from low 20s to about 15%.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-the-democratic-party-getting-more-extreme/

Look at how people here respond to Joe Manchin even though he votes with the party 75% of the time

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/05/takeaways-on-americans-growing-partisan-divide-over-political-values/

Democrats have moved left on several issues. Over the past few years, some of the biggest changes in opinions among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents have been on race and the role of government. There has been far less change in the views of Republicans and Republican leaners. As a result, the public’s views as a whole have moved in a more liberal direction.

In the new study (conducted before violent demonstrations in Charlottesville, Virginia, and recent protests by NFL players), 41% of Americans say racial discrimination is the main reason blacks can’t get ahead – up from 18% in 2009 and the highest level dating back to 1994. Virtually all of the change has come among Democrats, with a record 64% saying racial discrimination is the main barrier to blacks getting ahead. Among Republicans and Republican leaners, there has been less change since 2009 (9% then, 14% today).

[RandomAccess]

39. With the difference being

You are aware that Republicans would say the same thing that Democrats never compromise, that they are taking principled stands right?

That would be a lie, and they know it.

You seem to have missed my point about principles. Tur implied all the opposition by Dems is purely partisanship, and I'm saying most of it is on principle -- not wanting to support the harmful policy agenda the Republicans repeatedly put forth. So yeah, THEY (Republicans) may claim they're operating on principle, and they are. It's just a terribly flawed, dangerous set of principles, and refusing to compromise is right up there at the top.

[Tarc]

47. She is normalizing white supremacy and xenophobia

Racists don't get a "side", nor the benefit of the doubt or the "agree to disagree" card. You bury them by get-out-the-vote efforts, to get more sane people to the ballot box than they can get their insane ones there.

[FrankTC]

58. She Is Objectively Wrong

I'm surprised that both-siderism shows up on DU. While it's true that Democrats became more liberal over the past decade, and Republicans became more conservative, objective measures of partisanship show that the Republicans have moved much further to the right than Democrats moved to the left. They ended up rejecting policies they had endorsed a decade earlier. Ornstein and Mann laid it out, demonstrating that the Republicans have historically been the source of the poison in politics. Their critique of both-siderism got Ornstein and Mann nearly banned from the Sunday shows (Meet the Pricks, Disgrace the Nation, Washington Wreck in Review, etc.). That said, there are liberals who hate hate hate Republicans as a political force, if not every single one individually. Can't say that I blame them.

[RandomAccess]

90. I'm looking forward to the day when Dems move left

enough to match where they were when I was young, approx a century or two ago now. So I'm always flummoxed by anyone who says Dems have moved left. From my observation, it's been a steady rightward march forever now.

Hey, welcome to DU!!

[kcr]

85. Are you aware that when Republicans say Dems never compromise, they're wrong?

Because it sure doesn't make any sense to use that as a talking point otherwise.

[JNelson6563]

41. I consider her a lightweight.

One of the many who rode this Trump train to fame and fortune. Never been very impressed with her.

[Demsrule86]

43. She is a light weight ...Joy is better than all of them...and we have to watch her on weekends.

[Cha]

45. I think "both sides do it" is BullShit. Not in this

age when the gop is covering for a Russian agent who is Obstructing the rule of law.. and, would not even be where he is except for hacking by the Russians and all the other illegalities that occurred.

And, yeah.. did Katy Tur have anything to say about the gop when they Obstructed every fucking thing President Obama put forth so he would be a one term POTUS?

[RandomAccess]

52. Good point, excellent rant

[Cha]

53. Mahalo, RA..

I'm full of 'em. Good to be able to vent.

[RandomAccess]

54. ;-)

You go, girl!

[BobTheSubgenius]

49. I disagree strongly with even the suggestion that hyperpartisanship is rampant on the Blue side.

Recap the Senate and House proceedings for the last several years and see for yourself.

[RandomAccess]

51. Thank you.

Now go tell her.

[Cryptoad]

50. Katie Turd is a Trump Tool!

Hosting her show today with da Mooche was shameful
never called on any his lies... Just smile and nod her head....... M$NBC is becoming more and more conservative with each passing day.......

[EffieBlack]

71. Its one thing to disagree with her. But the name calling is childish

This is a political discussion board, not a 5th grade playground.

[Cryptoad]

74. Trump Tools dont deserve better........

[EffieBlack]

83. It has nothing to do with what anyone "deserves."

That kind of juvenile name-calling sounds ridiculous - just like the "Trump Turds" you disdain - and undermines any argument you're making.

[Cryptoad]

84. It has everthang to do with it,,,

We have a long history of Political name calling in this country and for those that dish it out and/or support those that do, I have no problem dish them some up! No one is asking u to partake in this age old practice. However u are free to practice your political interface as u deem fit. ,, and so and am I!

[LenaBaby61]

56. To me ....

Katy's basic. Nothing hideous about her, but for sure there's nothing great about her. For me, she's just a basic reporter.

This lady right HERE 👇🏻 was a REAL journalist.

[democratisphere]

57. Katy Tur got her tax cut for her $1,000,000.00 / year salary.

She bows to her tax cut masters.

[onecaliberal]

59. Sorry but shes a repuke and always has been.

[RhodeIslandOne]

60. ????

Do you have evidence of this?

[RandomAccess]

61. Do you have any hard info on this??

I'd given her more credit, but am beginning to wonder.

[onecaliberal]

62. Watch her every day. She is a Republican. Its obvious

[bigtree]

63. she and Ken Dilian had me yelling at the teevee

...both clucking on and on about how unwise they thought it was for Comey to write his book.

Tur continued throughout her segment trying to goad her guests into saying the same.

Comey, by the way, had a great day and looks and sounds fantastic out there, compared to, say, Meghan McCain.

[RandomAccess]

91. Goad -- exactly the right word

for what i was describing in my OP. She pushes and prods and tries to generate controversy and division, IMO, perhaps to push ratings?? In any case, I think it's beneath a GOOD journalist.

[ecstatic]

67. Never cared for her. She gets super defensive when

people bring up the media's role in (s)electing trump. I prefer journalists who can handle the truth, and journalists who accept responsibility for their shortcomings.

[a kennedy]

76. You mean the one that was with Keith Olberman for 3 Years??

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2018, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)

[RandomAccess]

92. What point are you trying to make?

That's a detail I've heard recently and assume it's true -- but what place does it have in this conversation?

[a kennedy]

95. Nothing I guess......just threw it out there.....

Not really trying to make a point at all.

[RandomAccess]

96. 'cause it seems a little sexist

or even a lot sexist to bring it up.

[a kennedy]

97. Sexist?? Really??

Sexist?? Please explain that to me. Thanks. Oh, and it is fact, sexist has nothing to do with it.

[RandomAccess]

98. Yes, really

And whether it's FACT or not isn't the issue -- it's whether or not discussing her sex life is germane to the discussion at hand, and it wasn't. That makes it sexist IMO.

I wondered what you meant and why you included it which is why I asked. Your explanation that there was no reason more or less confirmed it for me. We're al still living in a culture where sexism (and a lot of other isms) are all still very vibrantly alive, running strong underneath ALL our conscious thoughts. Al of us, men and women. I'm not trying to gig you about it, but I hope you'll mull it over.

[pansypoo53219]

77. blocking a supreme court nominee? methinks she was a tad disingenuous.

[BlueJac]

79. MTP is usually a waste of Sunday morning time...

Never liked to program!

[RandomAccess]

93. Don't look now, but it's also on weekdays

on MSNBC. That's the program I was watching.

[Tipperary]

88. Huh?

“We didn’t start it?” I used to say that as a kid whenever I got in a squabble with someone.

[RandomAccess]

94. Oh please.

Completely different. As a child, you're FIGHTING. And it's possible -- and clearly preferable -- NOT to engage when one kid does start it.

THIS, however, is all about governing and in our setup, we have 2 primary political parties and nothing can get done UNLESS the 2 work together, at least some of the time. If one party unilaterally shuts down virtually ALL compromise, ALL efforts to work together on basically everything, YES. ONE PARTY STARTED IT. How the hell do you continue to be bipartisan if one party won't engage at all -- unless, of course, you just capitulate over and over and over and over.

[poboy2]

99. kick