Fellow DU members please be careful judging Trump supporters

[Backwoodsrider]

Hi everyone this is a big call I know but I do not want the US to fall into a civil war and here are a thing or 2 I am doing to try and prevent that from happening.;

There are many reasons why a person voted for Trump, as many as there are supporters however now the facts about Trump are coming out and layers of supporters are coming off Trump just like an onion but where are they going, into what type of camp? Depends on how they are treated. Now I am listening to the Trump voter.

If us progressives do a victory dance at the cooler every morning it probably is just going to piss the Trump supporter off and they might join an even worse group that reflects that anger. Instead I try and be present and listen when I realize the other person has really liked Trump and listen without reacting with my own stuff.. I notice the anger and frustration and their feeling of being abandoned, that is suffering by any measure.

Many of them just want to talk so they can come to terms with their own reasons for following Trump and maybe discover truthful options to build with.

Just a reminder from one social field professional to another, if the Trump supporters think there is no solution to their love for Trump there is a good chance mass shootings and crowd run downs is going to increase.

[Agschmid]

1. The US isn't going to "fall into civil war".

SMDH.

[whathehell]

38. You're absolutely sure of that, huh?

I wonder if you were just as sure we'd never have a Donald Trump's presidency.

[Sneederbunk]

54. Echoes of 1860.

[Agschmid]

93. We've had "echoes of 1860" since 1860.

Civil war just ain’t going to happen.

[Sneederbunk]

98. Impossible to have echoes of 1860 before 1860.

[Agschmid]

123. And I didn't say that. So? 🤷‍♂️

[muriel_volestrangler]

136. No, no echoes of 1860 at all.

In 1860, there had been a disagreement about the fundamental constitution and law - whether slavery should be legal - for decades, with one region set against another. The military was very unsophisticated compared to today, and it was quite possible for it to split.

Those are the conditions needed for a civil war. Today is nothing like it whatsoever. It is absurd to say people should be judging what they say to workmates with an eye as to whether it will encourage civil war.

[Agschmid]

92. I knew a Trump presidency could happen.

Anyone with half a brain knew it was a possibility.

[whathehell]

100. Yes, we all knew it COULD happen, but most, including you, I suspect,

found it unlikely, to say the least...

[Agschmid]

122. No I canvassed in NH, I saw what was happening.

It was ridiculous on the ground, it’s so bad how dumb people are.

[whathehell]

135. I canvassed in Illinois and saw other things happening..

Trump lost lthe popular vote, by 10 million, so assuming that what's happening in one area is true for all others would be a mistake

"It's so bad how dumb people are"... Really,?.. Maybe in your area,
In mine, not so much.

[Agschmid]

140. Trump didn't lose the popular vote by 10 Million.

That’s just false.

[whathehell]

142. Yes he did. He lost to Hillary by near 3 million and

to Jill Stein and Libertarian Gary Johnson for a combined 7 milliom
.Add that to Hillary's number and it's 10 million.

[Agschmid]

144. Not factual.

This is now how popular vote counts work, but whatever.

[whathehell]

148. Factual indeed

You may want to try this thing called "research'.

[Demsrule86]

2. Fuck them...at only 39 % and the truly delusional ones much less..that is what jail is for...fuck

them...as for following Trump before the election I got it jobs etc, but if you are a Trump follower now you are a racist POS.

[HipChick]

6. Exactly..

[Demsrule86]

134. Those who support a racist mysognistic asshat like Trump even after he has show his true colors

are beyond our reach..and I would not want to touch any of them with a ten foot poll.

[Eyeball_Kid]

13. Those who saw in Trumpy some relief from their economic/social misfortunes

are now concluding that Trumpy is just a blowhard who has no idea how to do his job. Those who cannot perceive the obvious will NEVER see Trumpy do anything for the "forgotten Americans" because right after the inauguration, Trumpy DID forget the forgotten Americans. He even said so in one of his first speeches after being sworn in. He told his followers at a rally that he doesn't need them now; that he only needs them at election time. I was stunned at his momentary frankness, that he's only using his base to glorify himself.

That didn't phase his Fanboys one bit. He'll run them right off a cliff, just like he's run dozens of his own WH staff off a cliff. He's got a long life history of doing the same with every business he's personally run. And that knowledge STILL won't phase his Fanboys one bit.

[Demsrule86]

132. Trump leaves those who get involved with him broken and bleeding in the end. It was always so.

[dalton99a]

18. Trumpanzees are beyond the reach of logic or reason. They are not worth talking to or arguing with

[Demsrule86]

131. There may be a few who regret their vote...but those still supporting him are scum.

[Eliot Rosewater]

82. I will welcome any rump voter who now realizes their mistake and vows to vote for dems

the rest of the rump voters are supporting treason.

I dont support treason.

[Demsrule86]

130. I agree...which is why I sad before the election...there were economic reasons but now

you are supporting a bigot if you support Trump...and I have no interest in hearing their 'side'.

[JCanete]

90. I see. sorry Demsrule. Misread. nt

Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2018, 11:40 AM - Edit history (1)

[Demsrule86]

129. A small percentage of that population would be involved in a civil war...which I did say in the post

.

[JCanete]

143. oops...edited my last post with the apology..meant to send it as a new post. Sorry about the

confusion...I misread your post.

[Demsrule86]

145. You don't have to apologize...I know you are always fair.. no problemo.

[Kirk Lover]

3. The only civil war that will occur will be online...so no real civil war. But I hear ya.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

4. I'll judge the hell out of them and I won't give their Trump love the time of day!

[Different Drummer]

16. Same here!

The main reason I spend so little time on Facebook these days is that it is a Trump love fest, for the most part.

[Lint Head]

5. I think there must be an apology for those people.

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2018, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

To say one is not racist or bigoted and then turn around and support someone who is, with their vote, it makes them racist and bigoted. Like it or not.
There are no reasons or turns to come to other than they must evolve and turn away from there racism in their bigotry. A person who is truly not racist would not vote for someone who supports racism. Call me out if you like. Flame me if you like. But we still have free speech in this country. And people need to stop supporting people who are racist and bigoted and spout abhorrent views. It must stop. Not be slow walked to some heavenly lala land. Some of these people will never be convinced. Never evolve. You will not convince them. But those who can be convinced to turn around and see the light should turn around and see the light. There is forgiveness there. But it is not there if you do not ask for it. You cannot walk up to someone and say you must ask for forgiveness. One has to want to be forgive and to change.

[Backwoodsrider]

44. I agree forgiveness is a must

I try and avoid convincing people, besides writing this post lol

Seriously I wrote this to myself as much as other members as a reminder that I need to work on my own listening skills and not judge others so much and yes forgiveness is important too.

I forgive myself for my judging and F words I have hurled toward this negative media image called THE TRUMP VOTER. They are usually just people too. Sure they can be racist and bigoted but I am not worried about that there business.

[Squinch]

79. I think you misread the post you are responding to.

[manor321]

7. Nah

I don't give a flying fucking shit what they think. Through Bush and Trump they have already destroyed the lives of millions, many of which are dead and gone now and can't fight back. They destroy lives every day. They are racist, homophobic, Christian dominionist little fucks. Fuck them!

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. +1000000!

[tonedevil]

8. Has donald ever hidden..

his racism? If you voted for donald you voted for an unapologetic racist and that means you effectively support racism.

[Backwoodsrider]

55. maybe, or maybe their fear based idea they might get a new job voting for Trump

...was just a bit more powerful than their abstract idea Trump was a racist or bigot.

HHmmm for some that's not even a choice that's just reality.

[tonedevil]

86. Someone who...

outright says racist and bigoted things at every appearance for their campaign isn't an abstract concept it's a solid uncontestable fact. If you can overlook that because of a vague promise of prosperity you are a bigoted racist regardless the amount of denial.

[still_one]

9. Those who voted for Trump did not have any problem with the racist, sexist, bigotry that came from

him during the campaign.

[leftofcool]

10. Nope, sorry!

I do not have anything to do with Trump supporters, nor will I ever. Bigots and enablers, all of them.

[stonecutter357]

11. if you vote for a racist you are a racist .

[SidDithers]

52. +1...

Sid

[lunamagica]

97. Exactly

[mac56]

12. So if we're not nice to them

They'll shoot more people and run them down with their cars?

Yeah, no.

Sounds like giving in to bullies.

[Backwoodsrider]

46. just calling it as I see it

Remember we get what we give brother

[mac56]

73. And so do THEY

"brother."

[SammyWinstonJack]

74. We don't get what we give and that's the problem.

[tazkcmo]

119. No we don't

We have given them every reason to vote Democratic such as a social safety net, minimum wage increases and increased voting protections but they refuse to vote in their best interests because they fear anybody not white. To them we are the devil, Hitler and Charles Manson combined.

Shitgibbon has a 40 year history of being a POS yet they put on their white privledge blinders and goose step their merry way towars fascism. The only thing we will receive from them is their hatred.

I am not a christian but I believe in the Golden Rule. I do not, however, believe in turning the other cheeck.

[dalton99a]

14. The only way to please a racist is to be racist like them.

People who are still supporting Trump are racist assholes.

Fuck them - every goddamn one of them.

[Laffy Kat]

15. I understand the sentiment, but I'm sick of being polite to these people.

I'm tolerant at work because I have to be, outside of my job is another story.

[Chemisse]

21. My sympathies. I guess I can afford to be magnanimous because most people I know hate Trump.

My family and friends are all liberal. I don't talk politics with the few Trumpites at work (or anywhere else), and I've blocked them all on Facebook.

[Chemisse]

17. I don't know about a civil war, but otherwise I think you make a good point.

I don't hate Trump voters and I never call them 'deplorables' as a group (although certainly the more extreme among them are, very much).

I suspect the typical moderate Trump voter is regretful and embarrassed about voting for him, but won't admit it because he/she is on one side of a divide and we are on the other. People in that position tend to dig in their heels; we all tend to do that.

Instead of pointing fingers and blaming them, we need to welcome them back from the dark side and encourage them to vote Dem next time around.

Divisiveness in the US only helps our enemies.

[Backwoodsrider]

51. thank you

from this legal state

[Civic Justice]

19. Realism

They have to turn and make change in themselves, and many have to do it by themselves as individuals. The same as people did after the passage of the Civil Rights Act,... those who saw their wrong and desired to change and give up the Jim Crow grooming, they found their way to do so.
No one is rejecting them if they bring themselves to see the realism of madness they supported and promoted, but they have to make those changes ... the same as a Junkie has to make a choice to kick the drug habit, and when they do, and take steps to change, they get assistance. But each step is their to make.
Sadly some have been very crafty at masking their racism in public and other social circles, therefore, they have to be the ones who see the realism.

The MASSIVE VOLUMES of vile that has been going on for the time leading up to the election and after the election, by golly, if they cannot come to term to see the madness they support. Then one can't slip into being hoodwinked by them, when fact is they have to make the change and do it with not just a glancing thought, but in their hearts and minds.

[3Hotdogs]

20. We've been friends for 40 years. We have coffee once per week.

He is disabled and I pick him up and drive him to the coffee shop where we sit for an hour or so.

He is a Repub., Fox watcher and Trump supporter. He knows where I stand.

I said to him, we don't agree. We can discuss this, argue and so forth. Maybe we will convince the other, probably not.

In either case, it doesn't make a difference. One vote is not going to change the next election. So lets have the discussions but not disrupt our friendship.

--- and so it has gone.


By contrast, my ex., who is also now my best friend, blocked several people from social platforms because they supported Trump.

[Backwoodsrider]

57. awesome

--- and so it has gone

[wryter2000]

22. If they regret voting for him, I can muster up some sympathy

IF their reasons for voting for him weren't hatred. If, after all they've seen, they still support him, F them. Seriously.

[kentuck]

23. It doesn't matter how you treat them, they are not gonna change...

[JCanete]

94. Everybody is capable of changing. They need to come to understand the reason why they

would want to change though. Looking at them with disgust and disdain doesn't exactly make the message attached to it a pill anybody is going to willingly swallow. They already didn't trust the person administering the medicine, and now they can see that person doesn't like them to their core?There are some that those of us too removed from their lives and culture could never directly have an impact on, but if we impact those at the edges, those will in turn do some of that work, getting deeper into the layers of that onion.

[kentuck]

107. I do believe they hate the "liberals" more than liberals hate them, in general.

I do not hate them but I do hate what they stand for.

[HAB911]

24. Only after they a-p-o-l-o-g-i-z-e and beg forgiveness

[dalton99a]

25. Reality: "80 percent of evangelicals would vote against Jesus Christ himself if he ran as a Democrat

https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/voters-motives-shift-and-allegiances-harden

A New York Times piece in the “Review” section this past Sunday really got my attention. Amy Sullivan, a Chicago-based journalist, wrote, “Now that Stormy Daniels has confirmed on national television that Donald Trump initiated sex with her just months after his third wife gave birth to their child, at least half the country is asking: Surely this is a porn star too far for white evangelical Christians, right?” Sullivan then answered her own question by saying, “Wrong.” She went on to note, “As we celebrate Easter Sunday, nearly 18 months after Mr. Trump won the presidency with about 80 percent of the white evangelical vote, surveys show him retaining nearly all of that support. In contrast, white evangelicals re-elected George W. Bush in 2004 with 78 percent of their votes, but by May 2006 their approval had slid to 55 percent.” Sullivan didn’t note, but I will, that President Bush was a born-again Christian. President Trump—well, not so much.

But the Sullivan line that grabbed me was her suggestion that 80 percent of evangelicals “would vote against Jesus Christ himself if he ran as a Democrat.” Sullivan’s 80 percent estimate was not too hyperbolic, given a March 7-14 Pew Research Center survey of 1,466 adults nationwide that showed 78 percent of white evangelical Protestants approved of the job Trump was doing, roughly double that of adults overall, and just 18 percent disapproved.

But this isn’t just about religion, and it’s not intended to be a criticism of white evangelicals. In meetings since the first of this year with farmers and others in agribusiness in California, central Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, and North Dakota, I came out convinced that in small-town and rural America, despite their serious concerns about some of Trump’s specific policies and statements on immigration (availability of farmworkers) and trade (tariffs, trade wars, and crop prices), there seems to be little he can say or do that would alienate many of them.

[HAB911]

28. Kriced, they are not worth our effort

I've written them all off

[Backwoodsrider]

59. unfortunately alot are not going to change and theres nothing going to change that

But I know 2 who I have seen begin the transformation. Both a family member and a logging buddy are very frustrated in what Trump did so we don't talk politics anymore. They used to gloat in what Trump did, it was like a power for them but now they don't do that and seem kind of flat.

If we ever do politics I am going to be there for them and listen instead of pointing out how I have been correct these last 14 months. I know I am correct and live in the truth maybe I can help them.

[HAB911]

89. you're better person than I am

maybe I will evolve, stranger things have happened

[mountain grammy]

88. Just like they don't understand me

I’ll never understand them..

[Mariana]

95. I bet a lot of those 18% of white evangelicals

who don't approve of Trump's performance are angry that he isn't being hateful enough - like, he isn't ordering illegal immigrants to be shot on sight, isn't rounding up the all the Muslims in the US into concentration camps, and hasn't rescinded the 19th Amendment.

[greymattermom]

115. If Trump's tariff policies go into effect

Folks in many of those small towns will be leaving. Western Kansas sorghum growing areas are near the top of the list. Many Kansans have been moving to Denver for years now. More will be moving now.

[xor]

26. I "judge" people based on what they say and how they act.

I've yet to find a Trump supporter who can give a rational and coherent justification for that idiot Trump. What I judge them on is their pretzel logic, ignorant conclusions, inability to distinguish between truths and untruths, and a blind allegiance to partisan idiocy that leads them down a path of hypocrisy. Those seem to be traits required to continue to be a loyal supporter of Trump.

I have many conservative friends and acquaintances who I respect despite disagreeing on many issues. The thing is that as far as I can tell, they all agree Trump and his supporters are not acting like decent people who care about our country.

[Backwoodsrider]

63. I hope the division between the Trumpians and conservative grow

They eat themselves for all I care its just politics but in my personal life I have to function in a red county and don't worry so much in their possible political hypocrisy but more how they might feel today.

[Paladin]

27. Fuck the trump voters. End of story.

I don't respond well to threats of violence, and quite frankly, I find your comments more than a little suspicious. Us liberals gotta make nice with the trump morons, to avoid a civil war? Fuck that shit---that's just giving trump and his goons carte blanche to take what's left of the country further down the right-wing sewer. If we're not willing to stand our ground and fight these dipshits, we deserve what we get. Peddle the goody-two-shoes argument elsewhere, it's way too late for that.

[smirkymonkey]

53. Thank YOU!

I am sick of this shit. THEY are the ones who need to change and understand. Not us. Fuck them.

[Atticus]

108. Thank you! Honestly, this "understand them" BS makes my skin crawl! "Suspicious" at least! nt

[G_j]

29. From MLK Jr.'s Six Principles Of Nonviolence,

PRINCIPLE TWO: Nonviolence seeks to win friendship and understanding.
The end result of nonviolence is redemption and reconciliation.

The purpose of nonviolence is the creation of the Beloved Community.

PRINCIPLE THREE: Nonviolence seeks to defeat injustice not people.
Nonviolence recognizes that evildoers are also victims and are not evil people.

The nonviolent resister seeks to defeat evil not people.

——

You know the people he faced were as hateful and dangerous as any of today’s “deplorables”.

*Words of wisdom

[G_j]

43. MLK is just so outdated and naive

not relevant apparently..

[Backwoodsrider]

64. your post was futher down the list

Yes I agree with MLK however not everyone cares what MLK said

[kentuck]

45. "You know the people he faced were as hateful and dangerous as any of today's "deplorables"."

And we thought we had moved beyond that point in our history?

Evil people commit evil acts. Evil people think evil thoughts.

These people are not victims - they are oppressors.

[G_j]

58. I suppose if you consider support for Trump an evil act.

a point maybe worthy of discussion. Is it ignorance, evil, both, or are there degrees?

[kentuck]

71. He didn't hide his viewpoints.

They knew exactly what they were voting for. They were not deceived. They chose their poison. We all have the free will to choose our path in life. They chose theirs.

[MineralMan]

30. Nah. No thanks.

They're idiots, all those Trump supporters. We'll watch and laugh as they cry in their beer after they lose.

[Siwsan]

31. Any trump* supporters in my life already know how I feel about them

If they choose to try and 'engage and educate' me, then they will get each and every word they so deserve.

As for strangers who decide to do the same, well, the conversation will be short but not sweet. I don't do well dealing with the irrational.

[Moostache]

32. if you are soft on Trump, you are dead to me, period.

Whether that be literally, figuratively or actually...if you support ANYTHING about Trump, you are cordially invited to die today and make the world better by subtraction.

[Adrahil]

33. Nope. No passes.

If they realize they were had, and come to the side of light, then good. Welcome. But no passes for supporting that despicable man.

[oasis]

34. I cut no slack to Deplorable scum who still support Trump.

screw em.

[MaryMagdaline]

35. This is the way we would like to be treated.

However, much of America, and all Republucans, hate to be associated with losers. I, and probably everyone else on DU my age, am proud to have voted for Carter in 1980. Republicans are not like that. They don't mention bush or Nixon anymore.

I sort of think the show-him-as-the-loser-he-is method might work best.

[kentuck]

36. Where did he go??

Did he not want to defend his position? Is that all he had?

Or does he want to prove to his friends how much those 'liberals" hate Donald Trump?

Well, write it down. We hate what he and his supporters stand for. They suck the big one.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210531695

[octoberlib]

37. I've judged them and found them wanting. I will continue to judge them for their racism, bigotry

and misogyny. These delicate snowflakes can go to hell.

[Aristus]

39. More "be nice to Trump supporters" advice.

No thanks.

No matter what we do, the Trumpanzees are going to come out shooting if they don't get what they want. I'm not going to make nice with those blockheads in hopes that they won't.

[Takket]

40. somewhere, right now, a "bleeding heart libtard" hating Deplorable troll is reading this,

and laughing his ass off at you.

[Leith]

42. I'm So Sick of This Kind of Thing

"Ooooh... *sob!* Pity the poor trumpanzees! How will they ever see the light if we don't guide them gently while they kick us, insult us, and spit on us? The poor deluded muffkins need our help... *sob!*

Scroo that noise. When they learn manners, stop with the arrogant insults, clean up their own mess, and make at least one small step to understand US, they can go fuck themselves with maces.

[ThoughtCriminal]

47. It is up to them to start treating others with something other than contempt

I am not one who believes that respect has to be earned - all people should be worthy of respect by default. But respect can be lost. Through actions, words, insults, and hate, Trump and his supporters are unworthy. Respect can be regained, but this has to be accomplished by them. They have to prove that they have learned something and are willing to change.

[brooklynite]

48. I agree for a far simpler reason...

...allowing your emotional view of what you imagine Trump voters to be means you're not reaching out to those reachable voters in a rational way, and thus risking the outcome of the upcoming election.

[Backwoodsrider]

68. that says it all

I got a little wordy thanks for a cleaner perspective

[JCanete]

91. exactly.You have to understand how they are thinking in order to talk to them, and that takes

shelving your disgust and looking for their humanity.

[KTM]

102. Agreed.

The responses in this thread tarnish my impression of our party.

If all we ever do is say "fuck them," all they will ever do is say "fuck you too."

[gibraltar72]

49. Am I really reading this on DU?

[SidDithers]

50. Anyone who voted for Trump had no problem voting for an open bigot...

Whatever other reasons they had for voting for him, doesn't excuse the fact that his bigotry and hostility toward women, the disabled, immigrants, persons of colour and the LGBTQ community wasn't enough to disqualify him.

As The Rude Pundit so aptly put it:

The line between being a bigot and voting for a bigot is so thin as to be nonexistent.

Unrepentant bigots shouldn't be welcomed into the Democratic Party.

Sid

[PJMcK]

56. Nonsense

The vast majority of Trump supporters are not capable of rational thoughts. If they were, they would have seen the phoniness, egoism, lying, hatred and greed that underlies everything related to Trump.

Screw that.

Trump's supporters will not start a civil war. Far too many of them are too old, too weak and too afraid.

[TeamPooka]

60. You're fucking adorable. Are there cotton candy clouds in your world? nt

[Backwoodsrider]

67. well I do live in a state that legalized weed

and I hadn't even smoked before I wrote this

[Kirk Lover]

61. If a RUMP follower was burning on the side of the road...I'd pull over to help them. nt

[xmas74]

62. I live in deep red Trump land.

You know what I see and hear everyday? Some asshole down the street has a Confederate flag;two blocks over is a sign in a yard with a painted swastika. Every day I hear hateful, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, transphobic, misogynistic crap. Every. Single. Day.

They've come out of the woodwork and it's because of this election they feel validated. Every time something like this happens I look right at an election supporter and let them know it's their fault for supporting an orange asshole.

Sometimes you need to take credit or accept fault for your actions.

[Butterflylady]

65. No and hell no!!!!!!

[alphafemale]

66. Fuck the high road. I am officially DONE with the high road forever.

Our enemies - And yes, racists, misogynists and people that want to strip away the humanity again from the LGBTQIA are Deadly enemies - Our enemies see any attempt you give of kindness as weakness.

They despise you even more for it.

[Belligerent]

84. Exactly how Trump supporters were created.

Your comment is a demonstration of how Trump came to power. People who lashed out with intolerance

Many, however, voted against Hillary, and not for Trump. These voters are slowly realizing they have voted for an even greater evil than they imagined in Sec. Clinton. If we view them with hatred, instead of welcoming them, the resistance will fail. Our success hinges on our tolerance and willingness to forgive.

[alphafemale]

120. 9 post wonder...huh?

I've actually walked in this world.

You see yourself to mansplain to me?

You all go on with your Kum Bah Yah

We all long abandoned that brand of worthless crazy.

[Belligerent]

124. You can satisfy yourself by throwing stones.

Or you can be effective in making positive change.

You seem to have chosen throwing stones.

More serious activists should not waste the time or energy.

[JDC]

69. So mass shootings and run downs are now our fault?

Because we are not nice to trump supporters or don't watch how we conduct ourselves in potential victory celebrations?



Sorry, I disagree.

[JCanete]

99. There's a different way to approach this. If we know trump supporters are pretty far gone currently,

how silly and dangerous is it to turn our backs and wait for them to be the adults in the room? They will never be the adults in the room.

We NEED to be the adults. We need to understand trump voters on an individual level and phenomenologically so that we can diffuse them. If they are a bomb, we need to know which wire to snip. You don't just kick a bomb or say "I'm not going to engage you until you stop being an asshole." You figure out what makes it tick, because you are stuck in a room with it.

And with human beings the biggest and hardest step is to remember that those we dislike or think are evil are fellow human beings. At the most basic level, our fundamental needs and drives are the same. Operating from the underlying principle that most people think of themselves as "good," or at least think they know what "good" is, is a big part of that blueprint. Seeing their humanity enough to make that generous assumption up front even though they fail themselves to find humanity in others, is how you begin to navigate the workings of their thought process and to intervene smartly.

[KTM]

104. Cant rec this post enough.

Excellently stated.

[JDC]

109. Nodody said anything about turning our backs

You are doing a lot of time traveling here, lets win first, then worry about how we treat Dolt supprters when we are in a position of power to do so.

I think something that is left out of your equation is this: R-wing media and the web will tell these people that they are being disrespected and that we don't care about them. And they will pound it hime day in, day out. They will make a conserted effort to keep that faction riled up. it No matter their real life experience, they will believe it. They do now. Almost without fail and in the face of facts to the contrary

[JCanete]

110. Not left out intentionally. I should have imlied that somebody set the bomb. I say no quarter

on republican or corporate media, and frankly, it should always be part of the equation who is selling the message and why. But this still makes the people the symptom and not the evil itself. So why let the corporate media not just wag them, but us by drawing our ire and energy to their voters, who we need to counterprogram, not fight.

[dameatball]

70. Trump is giving America a sh*t sandwich and 39% of the people are still convinced it is roast beef.

When they take the blinders off I will talk to them. Not my job to be nice to people wearing "F**k your Feelings!" T-shirts.

[workinclasszero]

75. I don't give a shit what the deplorables do

They can wise up and join with the party that will actually help them or they can stay in their fox bubble and be the whipping boys for the 1%.

Course if they want to join dems they must check their white supremacy at the door along with their gay hate and misogyny.

Which is why the vast majority of Dump voters will never wise up so fuck them. They are headed for the dustbin of history quickly as progressives march on by.

[RKP5637]

76. I have no problem with those that have now learned what they voted for and are disgusted.

The ones that support him no matter what, well, they can go to hell. They will never be recoverable IMO.

[EffieBlack]

77. You must be white and talking just to other white people

Since I cannot imagine any person of color saying any such thing and I can't imagine anyone of any race expecting any person of color to follow this lead.

Anyone who still supports Trump, after all that they've seen and heard in the past three years. doesn't need a second or ounce of this black woman's time of day.

You are certainly free to knock yourself out, if you want to waste your time on them.

But don't expect me to help you or to be the least bit sympathetic toward your choice of priorities or your determination of what and who are worth your time and effort.

[sharedvalues]

87. Yeah people of color know that the propaganda is bullshit

But of the 30% of American fools that still support the president, most are white people. And a lot of them live far away from any black person, for example in suburban Michigan, and many are much much less involved in politics than we are. So they don't really watch the news, and when they do get any neews, they are heavily influenced by Fox and Limbaugh and Breitbart bullshit on facebook.

Dems are a big tent. Tolerance for diversity and support for minorities and LGBTQs and women are non-negotiable parts of progressivism. But within those principles and values, different groups within the Dem big tent can be reached on different issues. To reach the suburban michiganite, the most effective strategy is to expose the lies of Fox and other right wing propaganda. To reach the hispanic Catholic pro-lifer, a different approach is needed. Dems are a big tent and we should embrace our diversity.

[EffieBlack]

103. I really don't care if white folk want to reach out to Trump supporters, BUT

considering, most people who still support Trump now are not likely to have any interest in aligning themselves with the Democratic Party as long as the party continues to support and identify with minorities - since, by all accounts and measures, the party’s views and approach to civil rights and equal opportunity is a significant foundation for their rejection of Democrats and diehard support for Trump and his ilk - don’t expect to be successful in forcing them down our thoats since we don’t want them any closer to us than they want us to them. And since the only way you’re going to convince them to vote Democratic is if you convince them that the party is going to turn its backs on us or subordinate our interests to theirs.

And that’s not gonna happen, so good luck with your outreach.

[sharedvalues]

138. Dems are the party of diversity and inclusion

As a Dem, I support inclusion and diversity. I want all kinds of people in our big tent, as long as they too support those American values. That includes white people and black people and men and women and Hispanics and immigrants and queers and straight people. The Democratic Party is the party of inclusion and those Americans who can accept others should join us.

As MLK said
“I have a dream that one day right there in Alabama little black boys and little black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.”

This is the dream of American inclusion and unification. We should work to accept everyone who accepts those values and that dream.

[EffieBlack]

141. Diversity does not require the inclusion of white people whose interests are dangerous to minorities

I have no problem with white people being in the tent - duh. But that doesn't mean I'm going to embrace white people who have interests that are diametrically opposed to mine. And I will fight tooth and nail anyone else who tries to force them on me.

And please, don't insult Dr. King or me by quoting him to try to justify bigotry and racism or to suggest that I am discriminating against white people. No one is judging Trump supporters because of the color of their skin. The content of their character - as evidenced by the company they keep - is the reason I don't want them in my party. It just happens that the vast majority of them are white - go figure - but I don't want black Trump supporters anywhere near our tent, either.

[sharedvalues]

147. What you say is fair

There are some white Trump supporters that are extremely low-information. I know a few - and hold your fire for one second while I say this - who are actually good-hearted.

It's possible in middle white America today to have a busy or crazy life and ignore news and politics. Then all the information you get is from glimpses of Fox or local news (sometimes Sinclair) or neighbors who spout Fox or right wing radio talking points. They may not know any black people personally and rarely if ever travel to any city, never mind another country.

I'm not making excuses for them. This is a national crisis and everyone should be informing themselves. I'm just saying practically, those are people who CAN be won over if we speak to them.

And I'd even go beyond the super-low-information white voter. I think some white voters are deeply, deeply brainwashed by Fox and Limbaugh, and some of THEM -- not all, but some -- can be reached too.

Not that I think reaching those voters should be the main Dem strategy - the main strategy is getting out the vote, especially amongst minorities and the young (the winning strategy in AL-Sen and VA-Gov in 2017).

But let's not push every single GOP voter out of the Dem tent. Some can be persuaded if we speak about our values to them directly.



----

on a related note, I think you're doing good work bringing this place over to the views and interests of minorities. Too long Dems have neglected them, especially during the neoliberal, Third Way decades.

[CentralMass]

78. I take great care when judging them.

[Gothmog]

80. Trump supporters are idiots and racists

It is hard to be be understanding of these idiots

[Squinch]

81. Nope.

[sharedvalues]

83. Focus on propaganda. They were LIED to by the right wing media

The real problems are the GOP propagandists and the GOP billionaire donors:
Murdoch. Koch. Mercer. Adelson. Pope. Uiline. Searle. DeVos. Anschutz. And dozens of other billionaires in the Koch network.

I know a lot of GOP voters. Most of them are deeply brainwashed by the right wing media. It's not entirely their fault that they were lied to - they should take some responsibility, but propaganda works, and just because they were propagandized doesn't mean they are beyond redemption.

So my suggestion about the water cooler every morning is to focus on propaganda. "Wow, did you see the crazy lies Fox was spouting last night?" "Did you hear that Bob Mercer has an $8 BILLION tax debt he's trying to get forgiven?" "Wow, that far right general who resigned from Fox news really called them out as a propaganda network for billionaires"

[JCanete]

101. Yep, decades of work has paid off. nt

[EffieBlack]

106. Bullshit.

They may be ignorant but they’re not stupid and they certainly aren’t victims. And if they STILL support him, it’s because they like him.

Stop infantalizing them.These are grown-assed people.

[FakeNoose]

85. I don't believe the analogy should be the Civil War

All due respect Backwoodsrider - I do agree that we need to go easy on those who were fooled by Trump (and voted for him.)
However the analogy we should use is the days of Nixon and the Vietnam War protest, leading to Watergate and the eventual resignation of Nixon.

During the Civil War we had a geographical dividing line, where the Confederacy left the Union for various reasons. If you lived in the southern states you automatically favored the secession. In the Nixon/Vietnam War years there was no such geographical boundaries. We had families diametrically opposing one another, communities, churches and religious groups taking sides, etc. all across the country. Young men went underground or left for Canada (or somewhere) to avoid the draft while fathers told their sons they were cowards for refusing to fight in Vietnam. It was a terrible time and it affected the baby boomer generation tremendously.

What's happening now with Trump and the GOP has been discussed ad nauseum here on DU and elsewhere, and I believe we'll survive this. But the adults in the room (hopefully that's us) must realize there's no one right answer. The problems in American's Heartland have been festering for way too long, the divide between the Haves and the HaveNots is way too deep.

These are our problems too. We can't look away while the HaveNots get exploited.
It's no longer THEIR problem, now it belongs to all of us.

[lunamagica]

96. Nope. Sorry. They all new he was an anti-immigrant racist misogynist who mocked the disabled

and they voted for him.

I really don;t get these trump apologists

[Lunabell]

105. Nope, not if they're not sorry for their vote.

If they continue to support a sexual predator, a racist, a traitor to our country, then nope.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

111. This "if we're not nice to them they'll go full on Nazi!" line is a terrible argument.

I don't think anyone should go out of their way to be extra hostile to Trumpers, but the idea they should be treated with kid gloves is ridiculous.

[maveric]

112. Fuck them!

And the Slimy Slug they rode in on.

[Afromania]

113. Yea, see their reason(s) whaveter they are (yea right, we know what they are) have already declared

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2018, 08:44 PM - Edit history (1)

an informal war on everybody not like themselves. It's been going on for decades and now their piss fucking poor attitude and voting history has negative implications for the entire world.

We are heading for climate calamity and they sit with their fingers in their ears, hands over their eyes telling us it doesn't exist. Economically the entire world is struggling outside the very top few of us and they tell us that we need even more of an imbalance to fix it.

My brown brothers and sisters of every stripe and ilk are being put before the cart to pave the roads for the trump voters sickening misanthropic idea of utopia and here you are to tell me that we need to understand them. I understand them alright and I understand you quite well.

I get that you are probably white and upset that 4 out of 10 people related to you give absolutely two shits about anything you give a damn about. Further more there is a good chance they hate your ass for not walking the line of stupidity, hate and bigotry with them. I know they might be near and dear but fuck them all the same.

Their decision was made and by and large they are sticking with it. Why the hell don't they take a minute out of their day to consider why MOST people don't agree with them or just how hurtful their decisions are??

We don't have the time to let them unwind 6 decades of voting insanity at their own pace anymore. We don't have time to let them unpack the who's, what's and why's of their generational need to hate "the other". We don't have the time to dissect their irrational fears of everything. We don't have the time because we are circling the drain right now.

What I know and you should know is that they are willing to let everything fall to ash to sate their insanity. This far and not one fucking bit farther is what everybody not insane should be feeling, saying and acting upon today and forever forward.

[EffieBlack]

127. Yes!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

114. They have to acknowledge that their vote for Trump was a huge mistake first.

Without that they are not receptive to any dialogue and it's a massive waste of time.

[MrScorpio]

116. Fuck the racist pieces of shit

We all know why they voted for Trump.

[elocs]

117. Not everybody who voted for Trump was a Trump supporter

anymore than everybody who voted for Clinton was a Clinton supporter. Probably 1/3 of his vote was from the hardcore that believe in and worship Trump, but there were millions of others who did not like him but for whom it was important to them to have a Republican president nominate justices to the Supreme Court because they knew that would impact the nation for decades (if only those on the Left could have grasped such a simple concept).
Of these millions there are some who might be persuaded to support Democratic candidates but the next best thing is for them not to vote because the right sure does depend upon the Left being fickle voters and not bother to vote unless they are excited or motivated or have the most pure candidate.
Then again I can see that we have some on the Left here that condemn anyone who has voted for a Republican, particularly Trump, because so many seem to want to purge the Democratic Party of anybody who is not sufficiently Liberal and Progressive or pure enough for them.

Yep, today if you're not a Repuke you're a Libtard. This nation is so polarized with each side demonizing the other that if this were a third world country we would be in the midst of an armed revolution now. What will be the breaking point here when things snap because those tens of millions of Trump supporters are going nowhere and neither are the tens of millions of those on the Left. So we can't afford to be complacent or try and see how small we can make our tent and welcome others who want to come in. Otherwise it is war without end.

[jalan48]

118. "Evolving" seems to be the thing so why not.

[Bonhomme Richard]

121. Fuck that! In my view there is zero difference between them and....

those that supported Hitler, Mussolini or any other despot. The best I can say about them is that they have a serious character flaw.
The mentality is the same and I offer them no solace.

[Blindingly apparent]

125. Because of this marvelous thing called a secret ballot

I have no idea how anyone voted; so, until they tell me, they are above condemnation. Unfortunately, trump voters tend to brag about it endlessly. If a confused or contrite Trump supporter came to me questioning how he came to vote for Him I would suggest that maybe his problem was one of looking out only for himself. He thought that he would gain from a Trump presidency. He failed to consider how a Trump presidency would effect The poor, the exploited, The sick, and the immigrant among us. I think I would also ask if change of heart was due only to the fact that he didn’t gain what he expected. If his answer is only about himself and doesn’t include any other reasons such as patriotism, fear of war, or consideration for any of the above people, he is shit out of luck for any expression of sympathy/empathy. He was then and is still a selfish bastard, Deserving no consideration.

[liberal N proud]

126. How do you forgive them for what they are putting this country through?

They were warned and warned and warned again this man is a monster.

He gave them ample opportunity to see examples of the true trump.

They chose to subject this country and us through trump hell. Fuck them all!

[JustAnotherGen]

128. They are supporting a traitor

What they permit they promote.

They can move to Russia if they don't like the fall out.

[Vinca]

133. Oh, boy. The old hold hands and sing kumbayah ploy.

That ought to work. I think a cult deprogrammer would get better results.

[Bettie]

137. Trump voters have one thing that binds them together

and it is hate.

It may not be racial hate for all of them, for some it is hatred of women or "teh gays" or some other group, but they are bound by their hate. They adore their idol, their "god emperor", for giving them permission to express that hate, to display it with pride, knowing that the highest office in the land is held by one of their own, a man consumed by his various hatreds.

I don't even bother with them anymore, they are not worth the time and energy and I live among a lot of them. I'm related to a lot of them. I interact when it is necessary, but I don't trust them at all. I know who and what they are, the masks are gone.

[Mc Mike]

139. Look, every openly horrible thing he's said and pulled would have been the last straw for me.

If I'd been a supporter of his. So it's tough to put myself in their shoes. My acceptance of them is predicated on their rejection of him. I just can't see where they could possibly have been coming from, in their support for him.

How can little cartoon hearts continue to have floated up from their heads, about that orange freak, after every freak outrageous violent crooked nazi move he's made?

If one of them said 'I supported him, and I was wrong', I'd listen to them. I don't want to hear about how they were justified in doing so. If they want to talk about how they can put the orange nazi toothpaste back into the tube, that's a good basis for friendly interactions.

But I did recently find out one co-worker who is just a great seeming person, nice, good worker, smart, kind, etc. was a tRump supporter. She was pretty much the nicest person on the jobsite.

I didn't ride her about it, but it completely blew me away that she was there, politically. I'd never talked to her about politics, but had told a couple of the bulkier trump humps where to get off, openly, so the whole site knew where I was coming from, politically. And it had never affected the good interactions I had with her. I'd just always assumed she was on the good side, just based on our incidental work related interactions.

Even Liz Warren, who I love, was a republican back in the Iran Contra days. I just can't figure out what she could have possibly been looking at in the GOP that would have made her be in it, in the '80's, or stay in it through Iran Contra. That being said, I'd back her for President now. She doesn't seem like someone who would plunk down on a return to raygun scumbaggery and treasonous felonies, she's openly pushing against that freak Mulvaney's dismantling the CFPB.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. There can be no redemption without responsibility.