Expect Trump to be Named as an Unidicted Coconspirator

[louis c]

Rudy Giuliani has said that the Mueller team has informed him that they have decided, after some debate, that a sitting President can't be indicted by virtue of his office. The fact that this opinion was debated among the Mueller team at all foreshadows Trump's complicity in a crime.

This is a precedent set by the justice department in both the Nixon and Bill Clinton investigations. Although Clinton was never named as a coconspirator. Nixon resigned after the Judiciary Committee voted for impeachment, and Clinton was impeached but survived conviction in the Senate

Following the precedents, expect that Trump will be named as an unindicted co-conspirator when Mueller's team indicts Don Jr. and/or Jared Kushner, if they haven't already done so, and have the indictments under seal, as was the case with Nixon.

On June 6, 1974, Richard Nixon was named as an unindicted coconspirator for his participation in the Watergate cover-up.

Link;
https://www.nytimes.com/1974/06/07/archives/jury-named-nixon-a-coconspirator-but-didnt-indict-st-clair-confirms.html

[BigmanPigman]

1. I still don't understand why we can't set a new precedent and indict him.

If we can't than this is probably the second best approach.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. If he was a democrat and had done all this, dont worry a new precedent would be set

because the deplorables would send the message, indict or we will burn everything to the ground.

[BigmanPigman]

5. Oh, so you mean that it CAN be done,

the problem is with the GOP majority and they WON'T do it. That means we MUST win the House to indict him.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. I really wonder what would have happened had KGB agents not prevented 70,000

votes in MI from being counted, as they did (IMO based on that story we all know about) or other votes they prevented us from counting, i.e. Hillary had won as she did, would they have started shooting?

Would they start shooting if rump is indicted?

I think some of them would and what I dont know is which police and which Nati Guard would protect us and which wouldnt.

[BigmanPigman]

9. The 2018 version of war with Russia is cyber war.

They are way ahead of us in that dept thanks to the GOP. They can hack our electrical grids, etc and create chaos in a zillion ways (financial institutions, personal accounts...).
About a month ago MSNBC had a guest on who has experience with these matters and he said that what the US needs to do is find Putin's total personal wealth and let Russia and the world know. Also, have our cyber people block Russia's attacks, and finally attacking them by shutting down their grids, computers, etc. He is a military guy and said this can be done but the president would have to order it. This was the first time I had heard about this approach to these important issues and I even jotted it down but not his name. I was going to check him out but forget his name and position.

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. As you know the WH has fired the people who cyber protect us, they did this on orders

from Putin.

I almost wish the freedumb teaparty morons would lose their homes NOW to putin so that I could see it happen.

Since it WILL happen if we dont win the elections.

[BigmanPigman]

15. I am aware of that and I read yesterday that more

cyber related restraints were made. They eliminated a key position or limited the authority in the cyber dept again. Is there anyone even left at this point? I am sickened by this.

[BSdetect]

23. We are at war and the idiots in charge (GOP) are not dealing with it - they are aiding the russians.

[BigmanPigman]

25. That means they are still committing treason.

Our country has been sold and I didn't even know it was for sale.

[CousinIT]

16. We must win the house to impeach him or at least begin to.

Thinking Senate won't go for it even w Dem majority.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Then Pence will pardon rump or can rump pardon himself?

GOP will gladly support treason since they all seem to be guilty of it.

[ProudLib72]

6. They are all coconspirators

Ergo, no crime.

[SonofDonald]

26. As I have read here and other sources

If dumpf or pants is involved even as an unindicted co-conspirator then they can't pardon anyone involved in the case.

And I've seen/read this more than a few times, I also keep seeing the word "RICO" being used as its a criminal enterprise they are involved in.

So I would think nobody named as a co-conspirator could be pardoned by dumpf or pants if dumpf is removed.

We have waited patiently for so long now but it really does look like it's coming to a head soon.

[tazkcmo]

4. Just tell him

It's like a Nobel nomination. He'll be tweeting about it in minutes.

[madinmaryland]

8. [b] Clinton was never named as a coconspirator. [/b] nt

[louis c]

18. I I stated that in the OP.

[bench scientist]

29. Because Jones v Clinton was a civil case not a criminal one.

The unanswered question of law is whether a sitting President can be indicted for a crime before being impeached.
Typically the argument is something like this: As head of the executive branch, if the President has engaged in crimes, he cannot investigate himself and should be removed via the impeachment process with is a political process, not a criminal one. After he is impeached he may be indicted.

[C_U_L8R]

11. An undicked dick tater ?

What.

[NightWatcher]

12. Why would Mueller tell him that? Mueller has been tight lipped and has out strategized trump.

Why would he say that he was powerless?

Why would Mueller tip his hand? Unless it never happens or was a ploy to dare them to fuck up even more.

I don't buy that Mueller told Rudy that he couldn't indict.

[peggysue2]

17. Nor do I

This is just Giuliani extrapolating and/or interpreting whatever was said during that meeting. Meuller has played this very close to the vest. He knows that anything said to Rudy will be public knowledge, tout suite. Why tip his hand to an unreliable surrogate?

Don't buy it.

[louis c]

19. It may take away Trump's 5th amendment rights...

..and compel him to testify.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. Yes...thought this was clarified to "Mueller was coy about indictment nt

[argyl]

30. Rudy used his 9/11 "America's Mayor" mojo. He'll wipe up the floor with a scatterbrain like Mueller.

Just in case.

[RockRaven]

13. Or possibly a

not-yet-unsealed-indicted coconspirator.

Doesn't a sealed indictment pause the statute of limitations clock? Will that be important for some potential charges? Could Mueller just indict him for any crimes he committed, seal it, and sit on it until he's no longer president, while still naming him as a co-conspirator in other people's indictments (implying but not actually saying he is un-indicted)?

[louis c]

22. Good Point

[Frustratedlady]

14. What about the state of New York? Can they convict him once he is out of office?

Whether he resigns or loses the 2020 election and is no longer POTUS?

I'll wait.

[Pathwalker]

20. Rudy said.... and we believe him - WHY?

I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth.

[RandomAccess]

21. You believe Guiliani?

I don't.

Just like I don't necessarily believe Cohen took out a $130K loan to pay off Stormy Daniels. (Yet everyone on the TV repeats it like it were gospel truth.)

ETA: CNN is reporting it], so I guess it's true. I wouldn't take it on just his word, tho. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142060781

[RandySF]

27. That's my expectation

[jberryhill]

28. If Trump cannot be indicted, then he does not have Fifth Amendment privilege as to his testimony