Armed, actve shooter taken alive in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting

[EffieBlack]

So, tell me again why a naked, unarmed black man was sufficiently threatening that police needed to shoot him dead in the street?

[Wwcd]

1. Don't even have to say a word, Effie dear. We Know Why.

[malaise]

2. Why don't you know it's the melanin Effie

melanin!

[sunRISEnow]

3. Yes.

[oberliner]

4. This is your take away from this horrific school shooting?

That is staggering.

[MineralMan]

6. That is one thing that can be taken away from it.

One thing. We're all able to take multiple things away from such incidents. That does not mean we cannot focus on one of those things to stimulate discussion.

It's not "staggering" that a poster points this out. It's expected and valid to do so.

I suggest you leave people to address their concerns as they see fit. If such concerns are not your concerns, you can easily start a new thread to address yours. There is no requirement that you must criticize other DUers for their individual concerns.

[LisaL]

22. Do you understand that police officer was shot during the active shooter attack and presumably

that prevented the shooter from being shot?
And by the time he was apprehended the shooter gave up and wasn't a threat anymore? The shooter's plan was supposedly to commit suicide but he couldn't manage to actually kill himself so he gave up.
Lets not pretend police are able to easily take active shooters into custody.

[EffieBlack]

23. You've missed the point

What police perceive as a "threat" is often colored by racial bias - hence a naked, unarmed black man is seen as a threat while a white man who just shot up a school, shot a law enforcement officer is not.

A common excuse we hear after police shot and killed an unarmed black man is that, in the heat of the moment, the cops didn't know for sure that he wasn't a threat so they can't be blamed for using lethal force. But they seem to give the benefit of the doubt to white suspects, even though they have no idea whether they really are a threat - and one wonders why, if a shooter who just killed nearly a dozen people is given the benefit of the doubt, unarmed, innocent black men aren't.

But your effort to defend the inconsistency is noted.

[LisaL]

25. Cop who shot the naked guy is also black.

[EffieBlack]

28. It doesn't matter

Black cops can internalize the blue on black racism against black men. I don't care what race the police officer is. I want the police to stop killing innocent black men.

[George II]

10. Innocent blacks get shot first, captured second. Whites who shoot up schools....

....and kill 8+ people get taken into custody alive.

Shit, the cops even bought Dylann Roof a Burger King hamburger while he was (alive) in custody.

[NCTraveler]

5. Because tazing him did not stop him.

And police don't go out into the field without guns on their hips. That needs to change. It severely limits options in a situation like you mention. This policy has to be a part of the discussion.

[EffieBlack]

7. Why did they need to taze him in the first place?

What threat of immediate serious bodily injury or death did this naked, unarmed man pose to supposedly well-trained law enforcement officers that they couldn't have simply followed their procedure and isolated him or taken him down as they were trained to do before they immediately escalated to intermediate measures like tazing and when one taze didn't stop him, just shoot him dead?

The knee-jerk defense of the indefensible is one of the reasons blahpipo constantly refine and expand our vocabulary - because WTF?

[NCTraveler]

8. "Why did they need to taze him in the first place?"

He hit three vehicles, ran across the road naked, and "charged" at the cops.

That is the appropriate time to taze someone.

When tazing doesn't stop someone other concerns come into play.

He was clearly a threat to the officers and society, at that given moment.

Officers should not all be armed. I'm not saying they would have acted different, but the fact they are all armed severely limits them in situations like this.

Hit three vehicles, ran across the freeway naked, "charged" cops, wasn't stopped by a tazer.... Your going to get shot.

I fault no group of cops for not wrestling a charging man to the ground who was not stopped by tazers. They have guns on their hips.

I don't find this to be even close to a knee-jerk defense. I actually want to discuss policy. Not just hyperbole.

[EffieBlack]

9. Wow

You still haven't explained what immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death the officers faced as as a result of a naked, unarmed man running in their direction that justified using lethal force against him.

And no, if you run toward a police officer while naked and unarmed you're NOT going to get shot. At least you're not supposed to according to every police department's procedure and policy.

But your efforts to justify this killing - in keeping with your usual justifications of abuse that black men endure at the hands of police - is duly noted, as is my thankfulness that you are not in law enforcement.

[NCTraveler]

11. I'm not sure what you are doing here.

I addressed the exact points you mentioned.

"in keeping with your usual justifications of abuse that black men endure at the hands of police "

Back that up. You are full of shit.

[EffieBlack]

12. My recollection is that your made excuses for the Starbucks arrest

If I am mistaken. I take back my comment and apologize. If not, my point stands.

[NCTraveler]

13. Back it up. You simply doubled down.

"If not, my point stands."

What you did was a knee-jerk reaction with no basis in reality.

"My recollection is that your made excuses for the Starbucks arrest"

Even if that is the case, it would not rise to the level of the absurd charge you have levied against me.

Not that you are correct in the first place.

How about you leave your recollection behind and you bring the links.

[EffieBlack]

15. Whatever

I'll repeat - if -I'm wrong, I take it back and apologize. If not, my point stands. It's not complicated. If you didn't do this, just say so, accept my apology and stop jumping up and down.

[NCTraveler]

16. There is the triple down.

If you make a claim you should be ready to back it up.

"If you didn't do this, just say so"

I made it extremely clear. What part of absurd and full of shit are you missing?

Links?

"if -I'm wrong, I take it back and apologize."

Of course you are wrong. It's why you can't back your own claim up.

The absurd claim is yours. Own it. Not one bit of it has to do with me. It's on you. It's a lie.

[EffieBlack]

17. I took another look at my post

And owe you an apology without a qualification/alternative. I made an assumption based on an incorrect recollection and it wasn’t fair to you. I’m sorry.

[NCTraveler]

21. You are kind and fair beyond words.

Always have been around here. A true student and teacher.

My apologies for some of the harsh language I used. I think I was a bit taken back. It’s always more difficult when things come from someone I have grown to respect. I appreciate you and learn from you.

[EffieBlack]

24. Things can get prickly in the heat of the moment - I was taking a lot of incoming and you got caught

in it. But that's not an excuse on my part and I don't blame you for being taken aback.

Thanks for the kind words.

[greyl]

18. I yearn for the day public outcry mourns lives lost from police running away. nt

[NCTraveler]

20. I really feel for this guys family, friends, and all involved.

It sounds like some type of mental break occurred. He was clearly willing to do harm to others and himself at this point.

This end of this situation could have been so much better if three plus officers were there without guns. I’m not lobbying for unarming law enforcement. They have simply limited their options in situations by arming them all.

They need to look at all of their policies of aggression.

[LisaL]

27. Not sure what incident you are talking about.

If you are talking about a naked guy who recently got shot in Virginia, as far as I can tell there was only one cop there at the time.

[TheBlackAdder]

14. Penis envy?

[LisaL]

19. Well, the active shooter managed to shoot the police officer who presumably was trying to take him

out during the attack. Therefore preventing himself from being shot. Sounds like that cop who tried to apprehend him during the attack almost died.
When other cops apprehended him, he wasn't threatening anymore.
Do you want them to still shoot him?

[EffieBlack]

26. I don't want them to still shoot him. I just want them to stop shooting black people

I want them to treat black men the way they treat white men - and not shoot first and not even bother to ask or answer questions later.

And I want people to stop justifying black men being murdered by cops who have an irrational fear of the black body.

[LisaL]

29. The naked guy wasn't exactly behaving rationally when he was shot.

And the cop who shot him was black. Are you saying he had an irrational fear of his own race?

[EffieBlack]

31. Being irrational is not a capital offense meriting being summarily shot dead in the street

Shooting up a school and killing nearly a dozen people is not particularly rational behavior, either. But if a cop is facing a naked, unarmed white man running toward him and a quiet, seemingly docile, stationary AR-15-toting white man who had just shot up a school and he can only take one out, I would think they would 10 times out of 10 he wouldn't hesitate to take out the guy with the gun.

And yes, I'm saying that he had an irrational fear of his own race. It's not an uncommon phenomenon.

[LisaL]

33. So if you as a private citizen witness a naked guy driving, hitting cars, running into the

interstate and then toward you, you would have no fear?
Can't say the same about myself, regardless of what the guy's race was.

[EffieBlack]

37. "Private citizen" being the operative term

Cops aren't private citizens. They are law enforcement officers with special training and special rights and powers. They aren't supposed to operate based on the fear that just any private citizen would have. That's why they get to have badges and guns and authority. I don't want untrained "private citizens" walking around with that kind of weaponry and the life and death power to use it because they got scared.

But if I, as a private citizen, witnessed the naked guy you described, I'd be scared. And if I, as a private citizen witnessed a man with an AR-15 who had just shot up a school, killed 10 people and shot a law enforcement officer, I'd be scared poopless.

So, please just stop trying to justify the unjustifiable. You're not going to win this argument.

[LisaL]

38. Would you think you had a right to defend yourself if a naked guy was running toward you?

[EffieBlack]

39. Oh, please - stop

Let it go. You sound ridiculous.

[LisaL]

41. I guess there is no point in arguing since you won the argument.

[EffieBlack]

42. Exactly

Bye, Felicia

[Solomon]

30. In other words, he shot a cop and still got to live.

.

[oberliner]

32. Police should have shot and killed him even if they didn't need to?

I don't understand this response.

[LisaL]

36. Because he shot a cop that cop couldn't shoot him back.

[Bettie]

34. I don't get it either

except that to some people, a black man existing is sufficiently threatening to make cops shoot him to death.

That is the only conclusion I can come to.

We, as a country, need to change the nature of police forces. Cops need to actually be accountable and to receive actual consequences for their actions.

[Glamrock]

35. Cause he was black Effie, cause he was black.

White society has been conditioned to believe black people are less than human since the 1600's in this country. Fortunately, a lot of us have moved on from this. Unfortunately, a lot if us haven't. I'm ashamed.

[HAB911]

40. Gutless cops?