Why do so many conservatives think of themselves as victims?

[babylonsister]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/21/1760808/-Why-do-so-many-conservatives-think-of-themselves-as-victims

Why do so many conservatives think of themselves as victims?
Doctor RJ
Community
Monday May 21, 2018 · 10:30 PM EDT

snip//

The lack of proper respect comes down to being told they’re wrong, or—like my coworker—freaking out over nothing. Whether it be scientists, Hollywood, the media, or Democrats, calling stupid ideas stupid has somehow become “elitist” and evidence of bias. It’s one of the bitterest ironies that the people who bitch and moan about political correctness and wear shirts saying “fuck your feelings” are the ones whining about respect whenever a TV show or movie has a story which steps on their toes, or a science article actually advocates science.

snip//

From Paul Waldman at The Washington Post:

In the endless search for the magic key that Democrats can use to unlock the hearts of white people who vote Republican, the hot new candidate is “respect.” If only they cast off their snooty liberal elitism and show respect to people who voted for Donald Trump, Democrats can win them over and take back Congress and the White House.

The assumption is that if Democrats simply choose to deploy this powerful tool of respect, then minds will be changed and votes will follow. This belief, widespread though it may be, is stunningly naive. It ignores decades of history and everything about our current political environment. There’s almost nothing more foolish Democrats could do than follow that advice. We see this again and again: Democrats bend over backward to show conservative white voters respect, only to see some remark taken out of context and their entire agenda characterized as stealing from hard-working white people to give undeserved benefits to shiftless minorities. And then pundits demand, “Why aren’t you showing those whites more respect?”

So when we say that, what exactly are we asking Democrats to do? It can only be one of two things. Either Democrats are supposed to abandon their values and change their policies, despite the fact that many of those policies provide enormous help to the very people who say Democrats look down on them, or they’re supposed to take symbolic steps to demonstrate their respect, which always fail anyway. How many times have we seen Democrats try to show respect by going to a NASCAR event or on a hunting trip, only to be mocked for their insincerity?

In the world Republicans have constructed, a Democrat who wants to give you health care and a higher wage is disrespectful, while a Republican who opposes those things but engages in a vigorous round of campaign race-baiting is respectful. The person who’s holding you back isn’t the politician who just voted to give a trillion-dollar tax break to the wealthy and corporations, it’s an East Coast college professor who said something condescending on Twitter.

When one is involved in a game, there are options beyond winning and losing. Sometimes the best choice is to flip the table over.

[ck4829]

1. Fear

Fear of change, fear of the future, fear of the world outside what they personally perceive, fear of the 'other', fear where they have to treat others as equals, fear of a world where they're not treated as royalty, fear, fear, fear.

It's the 'other' who messes up, who makes mistakes, who sins, who fails, etc. The 'other' does the actions that are supposed to have negative ramifications. So when their actions have consequences they don't like, and they act all surprised, it's because it's one giant mind screw to them, they're not the sinner, it's supposed to be you... the non-conservative, the non-white, the non-Christian, the non-rich who is supposed to mess up and then be held accountable for their actions. And we're seeing this fear play out.

[hueymahl]

15. Yep

Pretty much nailed it. I would only add in a healthy lack of any self awareness. They actively lie to themselves about reality to keep their self image in tact. This internal conflict creates even more craziness.

[NewJeffCT]

23. I'm not sure if it's actively lying to themselves or

that 25 years of Fox News and 30 years of Limbaugh have brainwashed them and closed them off from any other point of view by keeping them scared.

[Yavin4]

45. The basis of Tribalism is fear

That's why you need the Tribe to protect yourself. Without fear, there's no need for it.

[dalton99a]

2. Because they want their victims to apologize to them

It's standard bully MO

[Orsino]

3. Because they are taught to do so by the rich men who wish to use that sense of victimhood.

And because they are gullible.

[dalton99a]

7. "No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly

- Trump's 2017 commencement speech at US Coast Guard Academy

[NewJeffCT]

25. I used to live about 15 minutes from the Coast Guard academy

so, when he said that, it was like he said that in my back yard.

In response, I had posted a few responses on twitter a while back that contained pictures of Abraham Lincoln, JFK and Julius Caesar with the quote from Trump on top and a snarky reply from Lincoln, JFK and Caesar below like "Honest Abe says that Trump is full of shit" or "Oh really, the Kennedy family might say differently." and I forget what I had for Caesar.

[Orsino]

34. "The lie is cast." n/t

[NewJeffCT]

36. Excellent

wish I had kept the pictures.

[Johonny]

12. Yup

[Moostache]

4. Fuck them all....they can bite my ass before I will 'respect' them.

There is nothing more infuriating to me than Democrats who spout this "respect the Trump voters" codswallop. If you are a Democrat and you think playing Republican-lite is the move, you need to be primaried and moved to the sidelines NOW.

[uponit7771]

5. Equality is oppression to the privileged, they think something is being taken away from them

[el_bryanto]

6. This is a strategy question and while it's complicated to answer

It's not that hard to ask - simply speaking is our best strategy to reach out to the middle and the right and hope to peel off enough votes from Republicans to get a win, or is our best strategy to shore up the base, make sure that they are energized and ready to vote, and win on their efforts.

In fairness, any strategy will be a combination of the two, but which one takes priority is the question. Because if you focus on centrists and conservatives, you will alienate the core liberal base. And if you focus on building the liberal base, you will alienate some centrists and most conservatives.

Bryant

[Mc Mike]

8. Right. Do they mean their whines, really feel hurt,

are they gaming us with their whines, working the refs, or are they able to instantly legitimately feel their victimhood complaint is justified seconds after they lyingly dream it up and it comes out of their mouths?

Their 'victimizers' have to deal with the same end result components of reality, no matter what's going on in the little heads and psyches of those 'victims'.

[treestar]

13. This is it

They often will simply flip something they think is working for the left - they see the left describing oppression, so they think they can simply claim to be the victims themselves.

[Mc Mike]

41. "How dare you not tolerate our repuglinazi christian intolerance?"

is one of the possible permutations of their stupid lying whiny victimhood gripes.

[treestar]

43. Yes, the tolerance argument

They are intolerant of LGBT, etc. So we tell them that. So they claim we are intolerant of their opinions. I'm like, that is disagreement, not intolerance. They pretend not to get the difference. They are intolerant of human beings who are different from them, and that is the definition of intolerance.

[Mc Mike]

47. They like to get their whiny fake complaints of persecution in, first.

That way their opponents are left in the position of having to say, "nuh uh, you are", which comes off as childish and lame.

[procon]

9. Republicans seem to have a hard time processing complex information.

They like the simple black and white issues, up or down, yes or no, things with clear winners and losers, but don't confront them the consequences or weighty matters that require too much study or logic. They will dabble around the periphery of major problems, focusing on side issues that are secondary to the more complex central dispute.

[erronis]

19. White or black, pro or con.

While problems are never that simple. Even 50 shades of grey or billions of hues of pastels. Every problem is multidimensional and even then, "it depends."

(I have a notepad with two columns - Pro and Con.)

[procon]

22. Hence my own screen name... LOL!

I can drive myself crazy trying to look at issues from every conceivable, nuanced angle, and that presents its own peculiar set of difficulties. It's a never ending curse.

[VOX]

38. "Those who are not with us, are against us."

Biblical in origin, this “idea” is BURNED into every right-winger’s lizard brain.

[Mc Mike]

40. A revolutionary power is incapable of feeling reassured.

[Yonnie3]

10. Many really are victims.

They are victimized by the Republican party's 'ruling class.' Willing victims, I guess.

On edit: Stupid victims?

[texasfiddler]

11. They are victims of their own stupidity

The problem is ... so are we.

[world wide wally]

14. Never forget:

There are more of us than them.
VOTING is the key.

[IronLionZion]

16. Because rich white Republicans have manipulated the middle and lower class ones

to blame us for the screwing they got in life. And also to amplify their perception of the screwing they got.

Many of them have gotten comfortable standing on the throats of others and it feels uncomfortable as the brown people and women try to move out from under their feet. Removing a comfy footrest feels like a vicious attack on their life, the same way publicly executing black people is just promoting law and order and public safety. Blocking multi-generational brown Americans from security clearance jobs reserved for white Americans is just a way to keep us safe by ignoring treason from white males and Russians, while imagining all sorts of treason is about to come from brown people whose grandparents immigrated from impoverished countries who won't know what to do with whatever national security secrets we're supposedly going to steal.

My grandparents immigrated to America yet somehow I'm a "fake American" stealing jobs away from "real" Americans. Trump's grandparents immigrated to America but what's white is right and we have a "real American" in charge after the last president lied about his Kenyan birth certificate. Trump is "more American" than me only through the lens of white supremacy and privilege.

But I also get the respect stuff from having grown up in Appalachia. There are plenty of folks I grew up with who are decent people and have voted for Dems in the past and could do so in the future. And then there are others who are just dumbasses and bigots brainwashed by RW hate radio/Breitbart/FoxNews.

[Nitram]

17. Conservatives feel sorry for themselves because they can't always get their way.

They "love" the Constitution, but get frustrated and angry every time what they want to do is prohibited by the Constitution. They are greedy, selfish, and very sore losers.

[Cryptoad]

18. Citizens of Dumbfuckistan......

Love the poor "Victim" drama......the GOP plays th this role for this very reason....

[Iggo]

20. They've seen their victims come up a little and they want some of that.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Right Wing Authoritarians sell FEAR to their Followers. . . . nt

[mythology]

24. For the same reason anybody else does.

It isn't limited to your political party affiliation. People like being victims because it makes them not at fault for things. It removes or at least diminishes their responsibility for things that go wrong.

[karynnj]

26. I would first take issue that our top leaders have NOT mostly shown respect for Repubcans

I agree with the fact that they have done so because we must stay true to who we are. We lose ourselves if we become the mirror image of the Republicans.

While you can find some instances where any top Democrat made a snide or negative comment - they are aberrations, often quick witted responses that were funny to us, but not to Fox News. Most of our leaders' statements have been respectful, including almost any that were issued as official statements. In the Trump era, this has sometimes meant that they have been far more respectful to their Republican counterparts than the Republicans have been to them. Nowhere is this difference more stark that the contrast between the further right wing than Fox News tweets of President Trump and the gracious comments of President Obama.

Respect does not and can not be mean that we change our positions or values. It also does not mean that we can not put out polite, but very negative statements on actions taken or things said that we strongly disagree with. Doing this is not for THEIR sake, but our own sake. Being filled with hatred is painful, so it is better to transform that anger to positive actions to fight for things we believe in.

This will not preclude channelling our anger to fight their terrible agenda. We need to do that out of our passion on the issues, not out of hate toward Trump. There are many people who either will never agree with us on the issues or who have very twisted visions of any Democrat, but there may be some who see who we really are ... and who now run their Republican party.

I don't think that "respect" on our part is the real issue anyway. I think the key issue has to be working to end the situation where there is no common view of facts. Our democracy is in danger because we no longer have any sources of "facts" that both sides listen to. It used to be that the newspapers had similar news -- and different editorials. We, on our side, are still mostly reading that kind of news, but many on the other side reject that and believe the facts to be completely different or as Kellyanne Conway even said are "alternative facts". What the hell are alternative facts?

I admit that I have absolutely no idea how we can move back to having reasonably similar versions of the facts - cherry picked because we all will do that - but not completely made up on one side. When Macron was elected - even though there was a similar leak to the DNC/Podesta emails, one difference that was noted was that in France, there was not the right wing echo chamber ready and available to repeat that same stories that US right wingers help disseminate on social media. (My interpretation - people saw the social media stories, but they did NOT jibe with their go to source for news - so they were rejected.)

In a sense, yesterday, that difference of facts surfaced with Trump's tweets and actions that are based on the conspiracy theory universe speaking of DEEP STATE. Podcasts have referred to their believe that underlying the public Mueller investigation of Trump's campaign and administration, there has been a parallel investigation of the deep state that included various Obama people (and of course HRC) I would guess for many on Fox, the call for a second prosecutor will "finally" make that investigation public. (Think of all the tweets that spoke of the real collusion being HRC's - either for uranium one or 'the dossier". Consider the tweets that Obama put a spy in the Trump campaign, that John Kerry is colluding with countries if he speaks to any former peer. ) It does not help when discredited people from our side - like Mark Penn (from a DU thread last night) uses this "deep state" language and sides with Trump.

[niyad]

27. projection

[Mountain Mule]

28. Whiners and losers, I have no respect for them at all.

I tried understanding them right after the so called 2016 Election. Huge waste of time. They love the role of victim and they are foolish and uneducated, racist and mean spirited. They truly are cult members who have imbibed the Kool-Aid dispensed by Faux. They are not worth even the smallest amount of effort.

[jmowreader]

29. Paul Waldman couldn't be more wrong

He gives two things Democrats are supposed to do to win the hearts and minds of the Trump voter:

We can “change our policies” whatever that might mean,
Or we can do things that always fail to “show our respect.”

No. The Trump voter wants our party to disband. They want no more Democrats. They want no more liberals. They want public education, the commons, social services, and all those “liberal” things to be abolished. They love the Bible passage “if he won’t work, he shall not eat” so much they want it to be government policy. They want to execute anyone who ever had an abortion, anyone who ever performed one and anyone who aided someone to get one, even though ex post facto laws are unconstitutional as hell and one of the people they’d have to shoot would be Trump. They want homosexuality punishable by death. They want all government regulation and legislation that doesn’t ban things they don’t like erased.

The Trump voter doesn’t deserve our respect. The Trump voter needs to be knocked into a ditch and held down until the election is over and his candidates are voted out of office. And then he needs to be told, “fuck your feelings.”

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. They also post totally bogus and bullshit things

on FB that they cannot be bothered to double check. Just yesterday the only right-winger on my friends list posted some crap about liberals saying the American flag is offensive to Muslims. No liberals are saying that, as I posted back, but idiots like you are putting this up without bothering to check on whether or not it's true.

I periodically consider unfriended that guy. We had worked together many years ago, I got a friend request from him a while back and accepted it, not knowing what he'd become. He doesn't post that often and I, and another former co-worker always push back.

Back to the substance of the OP. They absolutely do not extend respect to us. They wallow in ignorance and inciting fear.

The best example of how trying to accommodate them doesn't work: when the Senate completely refused to consider the nomination of Merrick Garland, Obama never pushed back. He should have been out there every single day challenging them, but he didn't. Too bad. Because even if Hillary had been elected and they'd still had the majority, they would probably have refused to consider any nominee of hers, also. Obama simply showed them they can get away with totally disrespecting him, and by extension any other Democratic President.

[Uncle Joe]

31. The result from decades of economically conflicted corporate media conglomeration propaganda

almost always promoting the fault line politics of division combined with the myopic vision of elevating mega-corporate interests over the public good.

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub" Grover Norquist

The corporate media conglomerates as in the case of Fox "News" and other conservative outlets are quite overt in pushing this meme along with the "evils" of science and socialism despite world wide evidence to the contrary.

CNN, MSNBC and other elements of the so called "liberal media" are much more subtle but the message is ultimately the same. Corporations may not do it better as in the case of our current health care system vs universal health care or Medicare for All but changing is too hard and disruptive or they dominate with one sided reporting on the costs but not the economic, stress reduction and health benefits from making such a change

The same holds true for other issues whether it be waging the minimum wage, tuition free universities or giving substantial coverage to the impending catastrophe of global warming climate change.

They do this because all of the major corporate media conglomerates have the same economic conflicts of interest, they have long time subjugated the best potential public interests to the benefits that their parent corporations, CEOs, upper management, major shareholders and big time commercial buyers receive, of course if the pundits deviate too far from that line, their jobs are at risk.

Taking into account this dearth of coverage relating to critical issues that literally mean life and death to millions of Americans only benefits ignorance and tying that dynamic to the constant focus on either the "horse race" or what divides us versus what unites us, it's no wonder the American People are so split up into warring camps with the inevitable result of political leaders much more focused on politics and the fear of not getting re-elected versus taking bold stances on progressive policies that would greatly benefit our nation.

Those ill disguised "leaders" political fears mixed with too large a portion of the electorate's ignorance; which is promoted whether overtly or subliminally by the corporate media conglomerates combined with the constant political drumbeat of what divides our nation black, white, Latino, men, women, north, south, the coasts, the heartland, gay, straight, ages, elites, etc.etc.etc. reinforces tribalism with the end result of a party over nation mentality.

This system does in fact create victims of all races by the tens of millions, widening cultural fault lines, magnifying hatred and resentment among the people and most perniciously misdirecting anger from the people against the most powerful and wealthy that are behind much of this toward the weak, disenfranchised and/or the other.

Divide, distract and conquer

Thanks for the thread babylonsister

[Solly Mack]

32. K&R

It really does come down to a whole lot of fear.

[D_Master81]

33. If you talk to a right winger

It’s amazing that there are any GOP in elected office. I mean the media, the entire k-12 and college educational system, Hollywood, scientists, much of the medical profession, etc are all aligned in a liberal conspiracy to take over the nation.

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. Because deep down all their "conservativeness" is fear, insecurity, lack of self-confidence,

paranoia, and lack of empathy.

These are the causes of racism, nationalism, religious fundamentalism, inability to accept facts that go against belief, and so on.

And since they believe that the way that they are is what ought to be considered "normal" for humanity, anything that goes against it is therefore abnormal; and any suggestion that their "normal" needs to be adjusted to make room for the "abnormal" is ipso facto an attack on their very being - as well as an attack on God HIMSELF who made the universe to be the way they think it is - and thus they are the real victims. And thus, the poor victimized cake shop owner has to be protected from the victimizing gay horde.

And it's kind of funny, in a way, because these are also the people who claim always to be so tough and able to withstand any hardship, and yet crumple in the face of a gay couple who might want a cake.

[kurtcagle]

37. Standard form of abusers

A few observations. Most Conservatives are extroverts. Their focus is on the world outside of them, they are very linear thinkers, and security, conformity to their culture and external status are important to them. They are loyal to their tribe, but generally distrustful of those outside of that tribe. Money is important to them because it is a means of ensuring security. They tend to be more disciplined when acting as a group, but they are less original as thinkers.

Many liberals are introverts. They are much more focused inward, lost in the worlds of what if and system thinking. They usually tend to focus not on the individual but on interrelationships and group dynamics. They can be judgmental, but their first instinct is to recognize injustice, and to fight it. Security is not as important to them but truth, accuracy and a respect for intelligence and wisdom are. Liberals tend to become rich primarily by creating novel solutions or using their talents, and money is really important to them only in that it allows them to follow their passions. They tend to be informed risk takers - they take risks less because they sense greater rewards in doing so and more because they recognize that to find a solution you often have to go outside of the known box.

By and large, conservatives see liberals as being flight, unreliable, and self-serving. When conservatives are in power, the world is operating as it should be, and they are in their rightful places, able to act as they feel they are entitled to act. When liberals are in power, conservatives see vast conspiracies determined to rob them of their security. Most conservatives are not actually racist - they are xenophobic. Women and minorities have a very specific place in their world, and they have no problem with either so long as they act their part and are known to them. Some can become racist or sexist, but most are simply xenophobic.

[smirkymonkey]

42. +1000

Makes a lot of sense to me.

[VOX]

39. Their mouthpieces (Hannity, et al) use daily confirmation bias to implant a sense of victimhood.

The right-wing brain leans toward distrust and skepticism to begin with. Feed it a steady diet of things that it should fear (as all RW media does), keep repeating it, and it’ll stick. Whoop it all up like 45 does, and it becomes a rallying cry. IT IS A SICKNESS.
“Lock her up”
“Release the memo”
“End the investigation”
“Emails. Still the emails.”
“Deep state”
“Liberals want to change you”
“Liberals want your children”
“Mexicans are rapists”
“Child-sex-slaves”

[kentuck]

44. The human mind is easier to manipulate if it thinks it is a victim.

It is a means of propaganda.