General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBotany
(71,673 posts)"I am not trying to be contentious." Oh please.
Cary
(11,746 posts)The issue was just discussed on Joy. Why can't I ask?
You're free to ignore me.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)bitterross
(4,066 posts)I fully believe the people on the other side look for posts like this and all the useless anti-Sanders stuff posted here too. They love it when they find us fighting amongst ourselves. It's free for them and provides great research on how to manipulate us.
Xipe Totec
(43,995 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,043 posts)or other infiltrated social media. There will always be legitimate opposition to any candidate - that's the nature of primaries - but after this we have to be more aware of who is behind it and whether there is any truth to opposition claims. I'm sure no real Sanders supporter ever intended the result that occurred.
leftstreet
(36,192 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,745 posts)Oy.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,745 posts)But some did not express their love unconditionally throughout the entire nomination process, ergo Russian dupes.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)Autumn
(45,721 posts)I preferred Hillary in 08 voted Obama. Isn't that what a primary is for? I have no problem with myself or others pointing out what i considered to be the faults of any opposing candidate. You do know that Hillary won the most voters in 2016? I repeat, I was never used and would support Bernie in the 2016 primary if I had it to do over again in a heartbeat. That was my intention and that was what I did. And I am damn proud of it.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,043 posts)for supporting Sanders during the primaries, and I happily voted for Hillary in the general. Whatever shenanigans were going on in social media had no effect; I was always going to vote for the Dem candidate, whoever that turned out to be.
Autumn
(45,721 posts)I paid attention to where they stood on the issues and supported Bernie in the primaries. And if he runs again in a primary I would support him again as long as I agree with his stand on the issues. But some dead horses have to be beat when they have nothing else.
safeinOhio
(33,549 posts)I think most of us that voted in the general election did the same.
Autumn
(45,721 posts)They were the nominees and whether it was the probable Russian interference or the FBI and MSM that's not the fault of their opponents or the opponents supporters.
R B Garr
(17,300 posts)narrative anymore. Sorry. Hillary was attacked from the right AND the left. Seriously, your statement is void of any current news of actual events about the Russian interference. Its all over the news. All it took was 75,000 nationally to vote against her. The negative influence campaign was meant to divide Democrats or discourage people from voting for her. Now we have Trump. Reality.
Autumn
(45,721 posts)I'm not interested in discussing this with you. Take care and good bye.
R B Garr
(17,300 posts)done to her was wrong because no one wants Bernie subjected to any actual vetting, so you know that bullshit attacks are not a good thing. It wasnt a good thing what was done to our candidate. Thats why there is the conventional wisdom not to attack a fellow Democrat too long in a primary because it is damaging.
By you Im not referring to you personally, but the vernacular you of voting groups.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,469 posts)over that Nazi beast who now occupies the Oval Office. It's called "democracy" for a reason... from which our party takes its name. We should embrace it!!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)ornotna
(10,999 posts)Never happened to me. The horse is dead, why are you still beating it?
Tom Rinaldo
(22,980 posts)I would have checked "My reasons for supporting Bernie had nothing to do with Russian propaganda. Of course I resent and oppose all efforts by foreign players to manipulate American elections for or against anyone."
Cary
(11,746 posts)I assume most Sanders supporters didn't want #fakepresident.
Why be so defensive? The question is aimed at being better going forward. We will face these tactics again.
Squinch
(52,011 posts)readily admit that I read all those Russia Times posts here, and I am sure I was influenced by some of them.
I remember thinking at one point, "When did RT become such a good source?" Obviously I was mistaken, and I wasn't even one of their target audience.
So why can't their target audience see that they were targeted, and why can't we state the fact that it happened?
PufPuf23
(9,099 posts)At DU there is far more effort to attack Sanders than HRC.
Extremely unproductive for the Democratic party and for efforts to fight the GOP and derail Trump.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Knowlwedge is power.
PufPuf23
(9,099 posts)Or maybe you meant to type "knowl" wedge as your OP is a wedge that divides and is one reason that DU is of less interest and value.
The Sanders bashing here (and that is what your OP is) is divisive and harms the Democratic party.
I thought we are supposed to leave the 2016 primaries behind at DU?
Cary
(11,746 posts)rzemanfl
(30,110 posts)"Knowlwedge"-how Cambridge Analytica, Wikileaks, Russia and others used the Internet to throw the election to Drumpf by exploiting wedge issues and fake news.
I am stealing your word. If you object, PM me the copyright.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Squinch
(52,011 posts)by the outed Russian trolls - that many Sanders supporters were targeted by those trolls and did their work for them.
R B Garr
(17,300 posts)Not just because of any one candidate, but the process of coordinated attacks and foreign money used to support both opponents of our candidate who just happened to be Hillary this time.
There was plenty of bullshit spread about Hillary, even here (a kind understatement). All it took was 75,000 people nationally to buy the attacks from the right AND the left. Now we have Trump. This is the factual legacy of 2016.
Thats how we got George Bush. Imagine the world if environmentalist/climate change proponent Al Gore was President instead of George Bush of the Iraq war for oil crowd.
Cary
(11,746 posts)And look at how defensive some of us are?
That's unfortunate. If I cannot simply ask them how they feel about this without them getting bent out of shape then that's a problem.
Squinch
(52,011 posts)will fall for it.
Raysawesome34
(19 posts)Does this happen all the time? Because this doesn't bode well for November, or 2020 if we remain divided.
Yeah, I wanted Bernie to win the primary. When he first entered race, my first thought was "Great! I can vote Bernie in the primary, and probably vote for Clinton in the general."
Then the primaries happened. And I still voted for Clinton. About the only thing I was told on social media about the primaries was that I was getting in the way of greatness, of herstory.
We, collectively, need to get our shit together and stop fighting one another.
Leftists like myself need to figure out that there's nothing wrong with a little pragmatism.
All you centrists need to figure out that we can have a few ponies.
Let's get this right before we start losing again.
Cary
(11,746 posts)You assume a lot in your first post.
Squinch
(52,011 posts)R B Garr
(17,300 posts)It actually illustrates the OPs example of bullshit attacks on Hillary. Calling it herstory was just one of the many superficial attacks on her. Sounds like a JPR concern...
ismnotwasm
(42,349 posts)Since people apparently cannot admit they were influenced by media, clearly influencedand not just social media, (remember HA Goodman lololol) the first time, I fully expect this shit to happen again.
Cary
(11,746 posts)One person proliferates one small piece of disinformation, discord, or discontent, and perhaps a few people decide to sit at home. Or maybe a right wing mope is encouraged.
Even now I have "conservatives" working hard to discourage me. I give them no quarter.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,043 posts)in the slightest; I concluded he was an idiot the first time I read his drivel. I supported Sanders in the primaries and Clinton in the general, and numpties like Goodman had no effect on my opinion of either of them.
ismnotwasm
(42,349 posts)He actually wasnt hard to see through, what he did was spout and support bullshit. Hes one of the funniest examples though. Salon and Politico both were fairy complicit I think
Squinch
(52,011 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and that this would be the main effect of that candidacy.
It was pretty obvious from the beginning. The moment I saw the rhetoric coming from supporters that concentrated as much on or more on Hillary and the Democratic Party being bad as their candidate being good I could see where this was going. It didnt take a particularly smart person to see it, we saw the same from Nader in 2000.
Remember Nader and his supporters portrayed Gore and Democrats as no better than Bush. We got the same nonsense from Sanders supporters. Many of them are still spouting that over at JPR so you can literally see it in real time right now.
Some folks are using every defense mechanism they can think of to avoid seeing themselves as part of the problem. They literally cant handle your question.
But its an important one to ponder and wrestle with not least because this is now the second time this has happened. Those who attacked Hillary didnt learn from what happened to Gore in the Nader situation, so the question is, how do we get folks to not make this mistake again.
Cary
(11,746 posts)The past is prologue. We can see more clearly that yes, it was weaponized. They breached our fortifications, now how do we counter?
ismnotwasm
(42,349 posts)No matter how uncomfortable. Particularly thrown together charts and memes. People can draw different conclusions from facts themselves, this is what makes us thinking creatures, and I vow to be willing to learn new things. My Rep. Pramila Payapal was endorsed by Bernie. In the anger of the primaries, this was not a benefit in my eyes. I now adore her, and she being the great Democrat she is, fights tooth and nail for whats right.
aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)The only thing that really matters with these issues is that some of them were perpetrated by a foreign power (probably in cahoots with Trump or other Republicans) and that must be punished and stopped.
I think a lot of folks, including me, expected it to come from the Koch brothers or some other moneyed Republican interest.
Apparently, I didn't see most of the bizarre FB ads that were out there and DU MIRT cleaned up a lot of stuff here before I saw it.
Cary
(11,746 posts)I simply want to see the tactic neutralized. I am not accusing Sanders' supporters.
aikoaiko
(34,200 posts)Your question is a good one, but it wasn't long ago that angry Democrats accused Bernie supporters of being mindlessly manipulated by Russian propaganda and that they wouldn't have anything negative to say about Clinton if they weren't so mindless. I'm paraphrasing, of course. I think that's why you're seeing some defensiveness.
Cary
(11,746 posts)But that never mattered to some.
Midwestern Democrat
(820 posts)and put it in the loss column (and no, I'm not a Sanders supporter - I was never a Hillary fan but voting for her in the 2016 primary was pretty easy - I thought the very LAST thing this party needed to do was move to the left).
Cary
(11,746 posts)I mean what do I think this is? A discussion board?
Here. Read this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/black-cube-inside-shadowy-israeli-firm-accused-trying-undermine-iran-n877511
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)This is a tactic we should all work together against.
Response to Post removed (Original post)
Post removed
ismnotwasm
(42,349 posts)Cary
(11,746 posts)Or are you trying to deflect?