Study: People Are Getting Dumber

[SunSeeker]

Ole Rogeberg, co-author of the study and senior research fellow at the Ragnar Frisch Center for Economic Research in Norway said studies conducted in Denmark, Britain, France, the Netherlands, Finland and Estonia have all demonstrated this similar downward trend.

"The causes in IQ increases over time and now the decline is due to environmental factors," Rogeburg told CNN. "It's not that dumb people are having more kids than smart people, to put it crudely. It's something to do with the environment, because we're seeing the same differences within families."

He explained that these environmental factors could range from nutrition, changes in the education system, less reading and more time spent online to changes in the media environment.

Researchers analyzed the IQ scores of brothers who were born in different years and found that rather than being similar, as expected because of genetics, the brothers' IQ scores were often significantly different. The study also showed that parents with higher IQs tended to have more children. This disproved a long-believed theory known as the dysgenic fertility theory, which states that unintelligent people have more children, leading to the "dumbing down" of society

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-06-14/study-people-are-getting-dumber

[Laffy Kat]

1. This doesn't surprise me in the least. People don't read anymore!

I work with a few young people, 20's - 30's, and I swear they don't read a thing, except maybe for the "People" magazines in our waiting room. These co-workers are difficult to have conversations with, have limited vocabulary, and display a flat affect. You can't talk to them about anything of substance at all. I worry, I really do.

[Hortensis]

5. Yes. I worry about our grandchildren. Their parents

require them to read somewhat, but they spend far more time on video games.

All too believable.

[KPN]

8. Huh. That surprises me. Some of this must be

contextual as my experience with people in their 20s-30s has been quite the opposite. I’ve actually been thinking that these young people will be our nation’s saviors — largely based on my interactions and discussions with them. But I’m retired and haven’t worked with young people in years, and even then it was in a natural resource profession and they were all pretty much college grads.

That’s not to say that my perceptions are right. I haven’t come away impressed or with a positive impression from interactions with all 20-30 somethings. But that’s true about my interactions with any age group.

I had actually been looking at the Parkland students as just a natural extension of or trending from the 20-30 somethings. I’ve just been impressed with the awareness, perspective/critical views, and social tolerance of this overall cohort.

I do have concerns about what technology is doing to humans as far as cognitive skills go. As a society, we no longer have to rely on memory and recall anywhere near the extent we always had before. This seems to be having a particularly profound effect on educational process and systems. But i’m not convinced that equates to “dumber” people or dumbing down.

[Laffy Kat]

22. Yes, I was going to add that I was generalizing.

And generalizing is never a good way to make a point. You're right about the Parkland students, they do seem to be a cut above. It is also true that most of us now have encyclopedias at our fingertips, so we don't have to rely on our memories, but there is still something missing, especially in the 20-30 year old crowd--a lack of curiosity about the world maybe, and the ability to talk about subjects outside of pop culture or themselves. I may be feeling a generation gap.

[tblue37]

27. An excellent book about how modern media and educational practices affect developing minds:

https://www.amazon.com/Endangered-Minds-Children-Think-About-ebook/dp/B0052A935G/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1529245357&sr=1-1&keywords=healy+endangered+minds

Healy's book is from before cellphones and tablets, but she deals with the impact of TV, as does Jerry Mander in Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television.

Healy draws on neuroscience research and on the experience and observations of educators.

[Scarsdale]

2. This study would explain

how the US now has an uneducated total MORON in the WH. His "kids" may not be too bright, but they excel at grifting. So, even attending good schools does not result in educated people. When daddy pays the school to accept you, why study??

[bucolic_frolic]

9. Bingo on this one

Look at major colleges doing remedial math and language. I've seen Ivy League network news people whose native language is English yet they can't use it properly. Today's 30s and 40s are going through life on intellectual-lite. They think short term, cannot realize the long term consequences to an action, have no idea what to do except pay down debt so they can borrow more. This they label 'motivation'.

[Igel]

18. The trend wasn't observed in the US.

In fact, the pre-existing average IQ increase of something like 0.3 points/year's continued to be documented for the US. This is Europe that's under discussion, not the world.

So all the justification of observations based on this report misconstrue the report and are on the order of, "Yes, I thought that water was getting colder. Just look at how the temperature's increasing!"

[Scarsdale]

28. This can't be right,

since the rest of the world recognized tRump for the ignorant, racist, tub of lard that he is long before the deplorables voted for him.

[Caliman73]

32. That does not necessarily have to do with Raw IQ.

Trump's rise was based on emotional themes. Those of us who are more inoculated against right wing populist sentiment could see that Trump was hitting on some major emotional themes. Europeans, who are not emotionally invested in US politics, had the same vantage point. There isn't anything special about European countries, though they do have a seemingly better press and media apparatus. They were just able to be more objective.

Trump supporters are completely emotionally activated. They are hypervigilant regarding anything critical of Trump and are completely separated from any facts or rational discussion. They had already been prepared for this by decades of right wing media.

Remember that Raw IQ measures, if you can actually measure them accurately, are just a way of saying what a person's overall capacity for taking in and processing information is. Because people do not exist in a vacuum, it is difficult to get a completely clean measurement of that process.

Emotional activation, stress, whether you've eaten enough prior to taking the test, and other factors have a pretty significant impact on performance.

When you are emotionally activated, logic centers in the brain are diminished, especially if a Limbic system response is triggered.

[aeromanKC]

3. People don't need to be smart anymore

They have machines in their hands now that can think for them.

Alexa, what is quantum theory?

Or, of course just turn on fox news. They'll tell you what to think for you.

[PatrickforO]

4. Numerous studies show that poor people tend to make bad decisions NOT

because they lack intelligence, but because they lack enough money. They are compelled, because of their poverty, to attempt to 'put out too many fires' at once. Thus, the poor are in a context where anyone would make bad decisions.

Indeed, according to one study that tested the IQ of farmers prior to harvest (when money was scarce), and after harvest (when money was more plentiful), they gained 14 points of IQ when they simply had enough money.

So think about how we live in an economy where money supply is controlled by bankers instead of the government, and these bankers impose scarcity on us. Money is 'scarce' we're told, so there isn't enough for safety nets, for programs that help us. No, we must spend on military instead. And cut taxes so billionaires and big businesses can have more money. But we get less.

No wonder we are dumber - we live in this artificial scarcity and are fed false equivalencies - we can either have a clean environment or jobs, but not both, for instance.

Odd this Rogeberg fellow is talking like this - people in several of these northern European countries enjoy a minimum income standard - so no one starves or is homeless because the state will take care of you even if you don't work. I would think this is because we all live under the false idea that money is more and more scarce.

[KPN]

11. Great points. Some of this is also about how we define dumber.

Until recently, humans have had to rely on memory and recall. Ergo, the use of rote in our educational processes. With digital technology, that is no longer true - yet our educational systems still largely test memory and recall. There is also the problem solving metric, but if we still measure and grade memory and recall, that in itself is part of how we define or determine dumber.

[Igel]

21. More accurately,

because lack of money creates stress, and stress messes with thinking. That's part of it.

Poor people also tend to have smaller social networks. That makes it harder for them to collect information about parts of the system they don't know, get advice from a wide range of people.

But poor people tend to be uneducated. While education has an impact on intelligence, education also gives you the knowledge to navigate the system--government, schools, social services, courts, insurance, etc., etc. If you don't know the system well, then decisions you make about how to interact with it are less informed. You make mistakes. (Take a simple example: It's been known for year that Democratic precincts have more voter problems. They also tend to be run by (D) boards of elections, so claims of (R) sabotage is misplaced. However, (D) precincts are statistically more likely to be urban poor; more people vote infrequently; fewer people read up on the entire issues. In Broward County in 2000 they had the same problem I had in Los Angeles in 1996--both used punch cards to vote, but when I pulled my card out I checked and examined the ballot, figured out that the wells under the punch card was full of bits of cardboard and so my pokes left the punch-out bits called "chads" dimpled, dented, or barely separated. So I cleaned out the wells as best I could, put the card back in and voted and made sure I voted. Had I been in a hurry, not bothered to check, not figured out what was going on given the technology, I'd have undervoted in most of the races. I told the precinct workers of the problem. Later, in Houston, I watched a voter try to vote, get to the 'review your selection' screen, and walk away without actually voting. The following year, a voter gave up after entering her voter information so she *could* vote, but never figured out *how* to vote ... so she walked away. It's not just the voters--it's the poll workers. I've watched poll workers stomp their feet, mis-sign-in voters, and in one extreme case disable the polling site because she was frustrated in entering voter information and getting the right code out. She tried several times, got frustrated, said, "It must be a loose wire"--instead of her own incompetence--and promptly disconnected the polling place from the server, shutting it down until a tech got there over an hour later. Stress, lack of familiarity with the technology, and an inability to apply the instructions prominently posted right above or right next to the voting equipment to the voting equipment itself are a greater enemy.)


Consider your hypothesis, though. He looked at Norwegian families, not immigrant families. 2-parent families. And yet the decline, if it's real and not some sort of goofball artefact, is in those families where money is not scarce and presumably financial stress and education levels are high or easily could be high.

Meanwhile, in other research, the Flynn effect continues unabated in the US. Even as we scream "poverty makes us dumb" and say poverty's increasing, IQs on a number of measures continue to increase.

The Flynn effect was partly explained Flynn. We continue to teach the test, so test scores increase. The usual kind of example is this: "Which animal of the following four doesn't belong? a. chicken b. mouse c. cow d. pig." Correct answer: a, it's a bird, not a mammal. That kind of question had high wrong-response rates in the early 1900s because people would select "mouse" because it's not food. While education's expanding and the categories that teachers want us to put things into continue to be taught, the Flynn effect will continue.

[femmedem]

6. It could be due in part to increased atmospheric CO2 levels.

Although I agree that the cited factors are also likely playing a role.

https://thinkprogress.org/exclusive-elevated-co2-levels-directly-affect-human-cognition-new-harvard-study-shows-2748e7378941/

[bucolic_frolic]

7. We're spectators rather than problem-solvers

Too much bad food, TV, internet, couch potatoes. The brightest elders I see are thin, active, and mentally engaged in everything, well into their 90s.

Find me a 95 year old, obese genius who's changing the world. Surprise me.

[GetRidOfThem]

10. Welcome to Costco. I love you. Welcome

to Costco. I love you.

( From the great movie "Idiocracy" )

[Kilgore]

20. A mandatory watch in our house

"But its got electrolytes"

[GetRidOfThem]

35. the electrolyte conversation with Prez. Kamacho's cabinet

Is one of the most ridiculously funny dialogues. "But Brawny has electrolytes. And electrolytes is what plants need..."

Or how about this one: "Water? Like out of the toilet?"

[Kilgore]

36. OWWW!! MY BALLS!!

[GetRidOfThem]

37. OWWW!!!!

[JI7]

12. i think there is less reading for sure. and by reading i don't mean headline, clickbait shit

and other similar crap.

how about novels or in depth articles in newspapers and news magazines ?

[Blue_Adept]

13. And it's so easy to make time for that too!

I was a voracious reader in my teens and early 20's. But that fell off significantly from a book a week to one every six weeks because of responsibilities that I have. I sneak in a couple of pages a day at best and that's only because I grew up with a love of reading.

[JI7]

14. people make time to stand in long lines at opening of food places, time for hours of sports

and many things.

and of course the smartphones.

[Blue_Adept]

15. "You can't understand someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes."

[Tipperary]

33. I still read at the same rate as when I was younger.

When driving, I listen to audiobooks. Before bed, I ALWAYS read. I thank my mother for giving me this love of reading.

I have books in my car, my gym bag, by my bed, on the porch, and even one in my bike bag. I love to read.

[smirkymonkey]

16. The republicans are dragging down the IQ of the nation.

They refuse to learn and grow.

[Blue_Adept]

17. It ain't just Republicans.

[Towlie]

23. Bad logic! IQ is based upon 100 average, so less intelligence in others actually RAISES your IQ.

[smirkymonkey]

25. They are dragging down the average.

The more dumb people we have, the lower the AVERAGE gets. It was 100. It's now probably many points lower.

[LAS14]

19. It's not IQ, but similar. A PBS show a few years ago, examining...

... the impact of smart phones, interviewed several MIT professors who insisted that the students could not learn as much as students used to. The blamed the mistaken belief that people can successfully multi-task.

[betsuni]

24. Oh heck, if I took an IQ test I'd score very low -- in the big dummy range.

How do they know that parents with higher IQs tend to have more children? Does everyone take iQ tests now? When did that start? Oh wait, statistics? This is why I'm a big dummy.

[SunSeeker]

34. But the decrease started in the 1970s, well before smart phones.

A poster up the thread mentioned CO2 levels. There may be something to that.

[heaven05]

26. really????

no shit???!!!!

[SunSeeker]

29. What's scary is they're finding this in Scandinavian countries too.

So excellent healthcare and education is not stopping the decline.

[heaven05]

30. HMMMMM

scary

[maveric]

31. "changes in the education system"

That’s the big one.