I hope Jill Stein voters are proud of themselves

[Trumpocalypse]

Along with all others on the left who refused to compromise their principles to vote for Clinton because she wasn’t pure enough for them. They are responsible for what is happening to the children as every Trump voter.

[JI7]

1. they don't care about issues like immigration or what happens to immigrants

in fact they more likely support Trump on this issue than Oppose him on it.

Link to tweet

[Funtatlaguy]

2. Add Gary Johnson voters and those that

Just stayed home and didn’t vote because “Hillary was just as bad as Trump”.

[JI7]

4. johnson voters don't claim to be liberals who care about these issues

[JHB]

11. They did claim to be "reasonable"

I feel no need to let them off the hook. The Libertarians got about 3x their normal percentage, as did the Green Goobers, but the Libertarians were also three times their size.

That excess, twice their usual vote and more than all the goobers combined, were "reasonable" Republicans who aided and abetted Trump by spending years swallowing every horseshit "Clinton scandal" and were having too much fun hating Hillary to take a break from it and act "reasonable".

Instead they copped out when it would have made a difference, and we've had a nonstop stream of vandalism and vileness.

Never let what these people, these "reasonable" people, did fade into the background. Votes for Johnson put Trump in office.

[JI7]

12. the fact they support libertarianism shows they are not reasonable .

[JHB]

25. Yes, and that needs to be pointed out every time they hide behind the word.

[JI7]

26. and voting for an idiot like Gary "what is aleppo" johnson

who was unable to explain anything about his economic policy and got angry when asked.

[JHB]

27. Johnson was touted as a fashionable cop-out..

...a place where Republicans who like to think they haven't been part of the Raving Looney Party for years could keep doing so but still keep swigging bottle of Ol'Hillary Hate Ripple.

The same bottle, we should note, the Steiniacs down by the case.

Both groups need to get their heads out of their asses.

[JI7]

28. i agree, they get no points for from me in trying to stop trump since the only way

to do that was to vote for clinton.

and as i said he was a shitty ignorant candidate anyways.

[JHB]

41. OK, but nobody was trying to give them points...

Quite the opposite. They are complicit and culpable, and that fact should be pointed out at every opportunity.

[JI7]

42. i mean if they try to give themselves points/credit

[JHB]

44. They'll always try to do that. They've done it for decades.

Their giving themselves points is their method for dismissing the parts of the party the built that they're uncomfortable with as "just a fringe" that they can ignore.

I want their goddamn points shoved right up their noses and smack them with their credit like pinatas.

They don't get to slink away and pretend this isn't their fault.

[StevieM]

186. Actually, a lot of them were liberals. I know that didn't make any sense, but many liberals voted

for Gary Johnson. The best evidence is that he took more votes from Clinton than from Trump. Go figure.

[RhodeIslandOne]

167. Johnson voters are libertarians....

....which in modern political terms translates to "lazy, selfish, asshole". They don't give a fuck about brown people or anyone else for that matter.

[AlexSFCA]

3. add millions who didnt bother to vote

[lagomorph777]

144. Let's not kid ourselves. Every OP that re-opens the 2016 wounds is doing Putin's bidding.

Keep the Dems fighting among ourselves; meanwhile TrumPutin steal our country. Genius.

[NurseJackie]

165. ...

[Cha]

253. Nah, we not going to stop discussing pawn for putin, jill stein's Tragic LIES

.. because we get someone on here who brings up putin.

[4now]

5. Kind of like this cartoon.

?1469494828

[Cha]

14. And, "principles" in the OP should be in quotes.. Jill Stein LIED to them and they were SUCKERS

Mahalo for the Dead On Graphic, 4now!

[True Blue American]

19. Love that cartoon!:)

[Blue_true]

150. So do I. nt

[betsuni]

22. I love that cartoon too.

[NastyRiffraff]

263. Perfect

I know someone who did just that. She said she didn't know Trump would be this bad, but anyway she just couldn't bring herself to vote for Hillary.

She's an ex-friend. I don't normally split with people because of political disagreements, but that was a bridge too far.

[NastyRiffraff]

264. Perfect

I know someone who did just that. She said she didn't know Trump would be this bad, but anyway she just couldn't bring herself to vote for Hillary.

She's an ex-friend. I don't normally split with people because of political disagreements, but that was a bridge too far.

[still_one]

6. Correction. They have no f**king principle. They are frauds and phonies. There was no ambiguity

that trump was a racist, sexist, bigot

and their phony bullshit how there was no difference between the two parties, or how they refuse to vote for the lesser of the two evils, or the epitome of gall, how Hillary was worse then trump.

F**K THEM!!!

[Cha]

15. I just stated above, still_one, that "principles" should

be in quotes.. because Jill Stein LIED to them and they were SUCKERS.

[still_one]

45. You are right Cha

[calimary]

7. THIS!!!!!

This would NOT be happening with a President Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office. The bad guys would of course be persecuting her within an inch of her life, but she would NOT even be tempted to imagine what is being implemented by this godless, treasonous, lying orange beast.

[lunamagica]

8. They don't care.

[JCanete]

9. I disagree with them, but Jesus, they didn't do this yo. Please place blame where it directly

belongs.

[yardwork]

10. Anybody who chose to allow Trump to become president is responsible.

The facts were clear at the time. I don't see a difference between voting for Trump and voting for a third party candidate. They didn't care that Trump won. In fact, they were pleased.

[Cha]

17. And, the only way the Green Party got Votes was

Because jill stein and ssarandan LIED to them.

So yeah they're Responsible for this shite just as much as the Russians.

[Gothmog]

175. A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump

[Adrahil]

33. Wrong.

https://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/michigan/

https://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/wisconsin/

[Cha]

43. It's touching the way they're protecting the LIARS who

will be LYING AGAIN in 2020.

[lunasun]

95. +1

[Cha]

40. Oh jill fucking stein and sarandon will be at it again in

2020. Spewing their Fucking LIES.

[Gothmog]

50. You are wrong

See post 48 below

[treestar]

84. Not true; she got more than the margin of victory

in some of those swing states.

[Sherman A1]

89. Fine You Win I am done discussing this canard

YOU are absolute correct in everything you have said and every will say.


GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[treestar]

94. What is your problem

You are mistaken is all. Why the drama.?

[Demsrule86]

73. J those who did't support our nominee helped elect Trump...Thus this policy and all the other shit

Trump has done is on them.

[JCanete]

105. No, it is not on them if they don't advocate these policies, and did not vote with the intention of

helping Trump to get elected. This wasn't the result most of them were seeking. They aren't supporting his behavior or policies. I'd be hard pressed to place this blame squarely on Trump voters for that matter, at least those few who are having a come to Jesus moment, because some didn't know what they were getting, and there are a slew of reasons that have led up to that.

Trump's election is more phenomenological than singling out the small percentage of Stein voters to blame it all on. Those who didn't actively prefer and work for a Trump Presidency may have absolutely made a mistake by casting a protest vote, but the focus on this margin of the population because you are angry at the result, and want somebody to kick for it when they are hardly the lion-share of the problem, is silly. Far bigger issues abound, for instance the corporately motivated main-stream media and all of its roots in social media, which did an intentionally shitty job of exposing the Trump we all know, perhaps for ratings alone, but really, its because republicans get a pass on everything because when they get elected corporations win biggest.

This constant vitriol, and I might add, the obsession with JPR here, which, how many people go there...I've never ever visited that site...seems like a misallocation of energy and righteous anger.

[Demsrule86]

121. This sort of thing was expected...he barely won. There votes or lack there of put him over the top.

Stein deliberately campaigned in the states that gave Trump the 'win'. I think she worked with Russia and hope to see her in prison moving forward. I have a real dislike for those who didn't vote for Hillary Clinton. I welcome those who have repented, but just like the Nader voters they bear some responsibility for the shit show they helped unleash.As for the corporate media during this "babies in cages" crisis, they were magnificent.

[JCanete]

122. well yay, now they have been magnificent. That's an interesting willingness to take the media only

on its merits in the context of a horrible track record. That sounds like forgiving and forgetting to me. And they get far less props from me for doing good work in a case as blatant as this where their own credibility could possibly be shredded to waste if they let this one slip, and where the human cost is just too specific in nature and cause for the journalists themselves to think of it abstractly. Tell me why again, that corporate media doesn't own this presidency?

[R B Garr]

130. You really need to read the Mueller indictments. Read how the Russian's

microtargeted individual voters with anti-Hillary propaganda. They used social media like Facebook to reach literally millions more people than "corporate" media. It's obvious you love that preferred talking point, but it is not reality in the face of what we know happened. Clinging to favorite personal biases pales in the face of the facts we know now and is not helping people to face the reality of decisions made against our candidate.

No more sabotage should be our focus, and the Mueller indictments show how Hillary was sabotaged -- and not only by the GOP.

[JCanete]

132. yes, there was russian propaganda and russian targetting, effective only because our own

biggest media institutions mostly suck. What Russia spent misinforming Americans pales drastically by comparison to what American companies have spent doing the same, not just over time, but in the 2016 race. There is plenty of well funded propaganda right here at home. You don't need to look to Russia for a boogie man, although they certainly are one, and no blind eye should be turned to their meddling, particularly when it comes to hacking our election servers.

Sabotage is hardly a concept particular to Russia, its just that lying propaganda here at home is both perfectly legal and barely addressed...that news here at home can have all manner of conflicts of interest and still call themselves news agencies, and that is all perfectly fine. You really think Russia is why Trump got as many votes as he got? I grant you, Russia may have helped to tip the election, but that's in the percentage points of voters, not in the 10s of percentage points. That is a national failing of policy regarding matters of the 4th estate that has persisted for decades.

[R B Garr]

133. Well, lucky for you, you don't have to hear any actual facts

about who else sabotaged Hillary and who copied the attacks against her. The open-ended biases and insults towards our candidate are never-ending, though, and fully used by many on the left against her. I would and could give you a complete run-down complete with all sorts of factual links about where the attacks originated, but......guess what. Sigh. Anyway, not all of them are from the "vast right wing conspiracy."

You should read the Mueller indictments. It will clear up some of your biases about just how much Russia did to target Bernie supporters and how the Russian's supported Jill Stein and Trump to harm Hillary. Actual facts about the 2016 election trump anyone's biases and repeated preferences for what actually happened. The Mueller indictments are a must read.

Indictments: Russian's also tried to help Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein presidential campaigns
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

edit: and it was the FBI who thwarted Hillary more than your favored "corporate media" scenario.

[JCanete]

140. What Russia did to target Sanders supporters is no suprise to me. The intention was to distrupt.

And how much did that actually pay off? The numbers are there for you to look at. Sanders supporters came in for Clinton at the same rate that Clinton supporters came in for Obama. One would think that was not energy well spent. Maybe it resonated with people who already wanted to believe what these lies were reinforcing, but those were people who already weren't going to vote for her. The rest of us were apparently immune to that bullshit.

So you deciding to focus there is just plain weird and a distraction in the face of the far bigger picture. Again, I grant to you that Russia has a monstrous and meddlesome regime and that it should be sanctioned for its illegal behavior and that we'd better figure out how to better protect our vote machines.

But nothing about the Mueller indictments invalidates anything I said. I will add something though, that our own mega-corporations are pretty much post national, and that many of our media companies could care less who is funding them, to the point that so much of the propaganda we do receive is colored by foreign interests, which include the UAE, etc.

But just think about it....from Sinclair to Fox News, what really has the most pervasive impact on the voting public? Russian infusion of some millions? Its not a tough question. And who sponsors the content on those shows? Why...corporations do...apparently totally fine with the lies they spew and the ignorance they are fostering. Is there some Russian money in there too? I would not at all be surprised.

[R B Garr]

154. 2008 and Obama have nothing to do with 2016. Dark money and a foreign

attack are what happened in 2016. Those are the facts. Trying to get around those facts by bringing up extraneous leftover talking points that lost already does not replace what we know actually happened. Your desire to blame everything on corporate media is really a canard or it may have placement on the whole food chain of what happened, but the Russian micro-targeting of voters in critical states is what happened. You should read the Mueller indictments. There is nothing like them no matter how you try and minimize their impact.

All it took was 75,000 people in a few critical states. Actually, polling shows that the FBI sabotaging Clinton is more visibly a result than some vagaries about corporate media. Corporations this and that is a really worn out mantra. Didn't you see the report that came out last week that exonerated Clinton and showed how much the FBI sabotaged her??

Clinton was sabotaged by foreign governments, our FBI, and the Sarandonites -- we're all on the "left" -- a particularly virulent group of people who went out of their way to sabotage her, which is really weird because Nina Turner used Bill Clinton to help her fund raise for her Ohio campaign, but then she bad mouthed the Clinton's as a way to build her brand/profile -- a particularly nasty thing that was done to the Clinton's by many who stepped on them.

You should focus on the Mueller indictments. Read about how individual voters were micro-targeted with anti-Hillary propaganda, and not all of it came from the right. There was plenty of anti-Hillary spam everywhere.

[Demsrule86]

160. Oh they do...gave him so much air times...not arguing that but in this situation what would

have happened if they didn't take him on ...let spew his lies? As for the Stein voters...I hope they have learned their lesson.

[Gothmog]

176. Really?

I note that the idiots on JPR fell for a ton of russian fake news. There were a ton of thread on pizzagate on JPR for a while. Sanders supporters were targeted by Russia and judging from the studies posted above with great effect

Link to tweet

Again, sanders supporters were easily fooled by russian fake news and the studies cited above show this cost the election

Link to tweet

[JCanete]

182. I note for the record that I said that you would already have to want to believe a lot of it, and

to have had no intention of voting for Clinton anyway. Are you going to contradict that statement and tell me that people at JPR had every intention of voting for Clinton?

The numbers are pretty clear goth. Sanders voters came in for Clinton, in the same margins Clinton voters came in for Obama. You would think there would have been a decline had this actually had any significant impact.

[Gothmog]

193. The JPR site was pizzagate central for a long time

Russia posted so much fake news on that site that it was not funny. Even now, that site is full of Clinton hates and idiots who love Stein and Sarandon

[JCanete]

197. So you agree. People at JPR had already

made up their minds that they didn't like Clinton and weren't going to vote for her, and thus were perfectly willing to accept the most ridiculous propaganda about her because they already thought the worst of her... note, I know little about JPR beyond what I see posted here. I'm accepting characterizations of the site and its posters at face value, but I'd assume that there'd be no need for a JPR if these people had simply come on board the Clinton train once we were in the GE.

[R B Garr]

241. Well. The Russian's had also made up their minds they wanted to harm Clinton.

So did the GOP, so did some in the FBI as we've especially learned since that IG report, and so did some on the so-called "left". They all had made up their mind to harm Hillary. What you are trying to pass off is that only people who already made up their mind about Clinton were passing these hit pieces amongst themselves so it's all a wash, LOL.

No, that is not what happened.

A coordinated effort to target undecideds and whomever else was gullible to believe the propaganda is what the mission was all about. You should read the Mueller indictments. Then you won't be engaging in these circular fallacies.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

[JCanete]

247. I am not saying, just to be clear, that propaganda doesn't work. I am saying that if you look at the

numbers Sanders supporters don't appear to have been particularly susceptible in this case, given that there was no downward trend of support for the frontrunner in this election compared to the Obama Clinton race. The same ratio of Clinton supporters refused to vote for Obama, so it seems to me that we have the same numbers in this race that you might expect coming off of a charged primary.

For you to keep repeating the same information that does not refute what I just said is kind of pointless. Can you point to any evidence that proves that russian propaganda DID affect how many Sanders voters turned away from Clinton?

[R B Garr]

248. You've been given gobs of information since you've

been here, but you prefer the mantras that echo Sanders talking points, so you refute them in favor of some vagaries about 2008 to make it all a wash. You've just let go a very telling sign, again, that you refuse the facts about the 2016 election because you call them "repeated same information." That is also know as reality. When the facts remain the same, that is "reality," hence repeating reality is necessary for those who do not want to face it.

Maybe you could actually read the Mueller indictments and comment on each of the allegations that you have read them and understand that people will be going to jail for the dark money flowing into our election system and how Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders were helped by the Russians to harm Hillary (the reality of the Trump collusion investigation). You should read the Mueller indictments -- acknowledge that this past election was different than 2008, that we were attacked by a foreign government. Look into how individual voters were targeted in key states -- microtargeted. They were served up anti-Hillary ads consistent with easily read data from their computers -- cyber attacks from a foreign country.

Of course you were saying propaganda didn't work. You were implying that only people who would never have voted for Hillary were spreading the propaganda amongst themselves and therefore didn't influence anyone, which is just a complete falsehood.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

[Gothmog]

244. You should visit JPR

You would fit in. They believe in magic and magical voter revolutions

Magic does not work in the real world

[Gothmog]

273. I was busy in the real world this weekend

Link to tweet

[JCanete]

274. hey, respect for all teh work you do, particularly the work you do that I agree with. nt

[Gothmog]

275. The real world is a nice place

Magic does not work in the real world. It takes hard work on the ground.

[Cary]

178. If the point of view isn't important, as you say, then why are you so defensive?

You aren't immune from criticism.

[JCanete]

180. am I being defensive? where?

[Cary]

192. Of course you are.

Where? Really?

[JCanete]

196. Where Really.

[Cary]

199. I charge $350 per hour

$1,000 retainer.

[JCanete]

204. you should probably do a better job of selling me on your services then...

[Cary]

209. Wherever did you get the idea that I wanted to sell you?

You didn't accept my offer. I'm good with that.

[Gothmog]

215. You are wise to careful as to the clients accepted

You do not want to know my son's billing rate. His firm just matched Cravaith's salaries. Big firm rates are crazy.

[Cary]

240. Thanks

I am well aware of large firm rates. Medium firms too.

But when I have someone I do not want to represent I will quote them a large retainer, knowing they will not accept. Had JCanete accepted my terms I would have duly spent a.couple of hours trying to educate him. I don't guarantee success.

[Gothmog]

243. That project would be very challenging if not impossible

[Cary]

246. We will never know.

As expected, he is too cheap to pay the retainer.

[jrthin]

78. Elections, votes have consequences. nt

[R B Garr]

91. Wrong. Some actively worked against our candidate. Read the Mueller

indictments. We have facts about how this election was attacked, and the facts are in the Mueller indictments. Our own personal opinions or cherry-picked quotes from this or that analysis is no longer credible in the face of the Mueller indictments which is based completely on facts of how Hillary was attacked -- hence all the indictments.

There is one JPR returnee in particular who actively worked against Hillary. Of course that is why we have Trump and they are directly responsible.

[JCanete]

100. that would still not account for every single stein voter. If you want to single out those who

worked against her, with the intention to favor of Trump, not to favor Stein, that's totally fair. But like 1 percent of the voting public that chose neither main candidate is not THE place where blame most squarely belongs, yet people here like to focus heavily on that 1 percent.

And JPR is even a smaller microcosm of the community at large. How many members are there?

[R B Garr]

125. We know that the GOP infiltrated the "Green" party to disrupt.

We can see what Jill Stein said herself, so of course her intention was to influence people that Hillary/Democrats were corrupt. Yet, she has no problem hanging out with global oligarchs when it suits her purpose(s).

Of course people who voted for Stein are responsible for Trump. You can't argue over every single person as if we need to go door to door to see the trend. Read the Mueller indictments.

[Jim Lane]

108. You don't understand. The only way to save the country is to scream at Stein voters. Repeatedly.

It's particularly important to scream at them on DU, because so many Stein voters are members here. The constant reiteration of the same attacks will surely convince them and will lead to a Democratic landslide in 2020.

Times being what they are (i.e., the current level of reading comprehension), I'm afraid that I need to add the tag.

[Mariana]

146. Can't have that! The Trump voters are totally blameless in this!

Isn't it weird that there's more rage for people who didn't vote for Trump than for the people who did?

[oasis]

13. And Susan Sarandon had better stay under her rock. nt

[Cha]

16. Yes, I was going to mention sarandon.. who did come out

from under her rock in 2017 to NOT admit her error.. and show just how FULL OF SHITE she is.

Susan Sarandon: ‘I thought Hillary was very dangerous. If she'd won, we'd be at war’

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/susan-sarandon-i-thought-hillary-was-very-dangerous-if-shed-won-wed-be-at-war

[oasis]

18. Sarandon has earned the right to the title :"Honorary Deplorable".

[Cha]

20. Sarandon is just is one of the Deplorables.

That's a good icon for her.. and these..

[Ezior]

21. But I'm sure the US is very close to the "revolution" now! Any minute!

Thanks, Susan.

[oasis]

23. Safely perched atop Mt. Olympus, amused by the happenings on Earth.

[Cha]

24. Smugly and Arrogantly sitting on top of her

$50 Million. While those getting hit by Fraud worry about their Health Care and their Children's Health Care, Food, Housing etc etc etc.. and now trump's kidnapping children right out of their parents' arms.. at the border and shipping them off to who knows where.

The trauma will affect them for a long time.

[Gothmog]

49. Sarandon helped nader in 2000 and trump in 2016

[Blue_true]

152. Where is that dumbass anyway, in witness protection?

Does she even give a shit about the savagery occurring at our southern border in our name? When she opens her mouth again, someone need to nail her for her current silence.

[oasis]

163. If she saw what happened to DHS Sec. Nielsen yesterday,

she'll stay her sorry ass in a hidey hole like Saddam did.

[Blue_true]

166. And grow a mustache like Saddam. nt

[DFW]

30. Actually, they probably are quite pleased with themselves

I'm sure some of them figure we needed the worst in order for the pendulum to swing violently back the other way so someone on "their" end of the spectrum would have a chance. They don't care who suffers along the way to get there.

It's not going to happen, but I have talked to people who are convinced it will. They are mercifully few in number.

[Squinch]

35. No. When a confluence of actions causes a disaster of this magnitude, every action needs to be

acknowledged.

It was never going to be easy to beat trump. There was an army of ignorance and criminal activity working against any effort to beat him, and we never saw anything like it before. If you had another candidate that you think would have done it better, you are delusional.

[Cha]

37. Time for you "to grow up". Tell that to the fucking Russians

who worked hard to Rig in trump.

There's another election in November and in 2020.. jill fucking stein and fucking ssarandon will be spewing their fucking LIES again.

[Gothmog]

48. Really?

Here is why trump is POTUS http://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

Bernie Sanders supporters switched their allegiance to Donald Trump in large enough numbers last November to sway the election for the real estate billionaire, according to an analysis of voter data released Tuesday by the blog Political Wire. Since Trump’s shock victory over Hillary Clinton, much discussion has focused on the degree to which passionate Sanders supporters’ refusal to embrace Clinton led to the Republican winding up in the White House.

Here is some more https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

About 12 percent of Bernie Sanders supporters from the Democratic primary crossed party lines and voted for Donald Trump in the general election, a new analysis says.

In several key states — Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan — the number of Sanders to Trump defectors were greater than Trump’s margin of victory, according to new numbers released Wednesday by UMass professor Brian Schaffner.

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

93. So the anti-billionaire crowd voted for the billionaire.

What hypocrisy. The transparency-for-Hillary-but-not-the-other-guys hypocrisy. Jill Stein cavorting with global oligarchs -- such disgusting hypocrisy.

Great links, Gothmog. It's all right there.

[Gothmog]

99. Yep

Stein, Sarandon and JPR types are the reason why trump was elected

[questionseverything]

157. from your link

While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual. A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election.

[BeyondGeography]

55. Obviously, we were helpless before The Mighty Stein

There was nothing on earth to do in that contest but crumble in the face of her overwhelming power.

[QC]

127. Don't forget Susan Sarandon!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

198. I blame Molly Ringwald!!!

[QC]

252. Judd Nelson hasn't been in a movie lately, and I have a theory as to why.

I can't say too much here, but it involves a large nation that spans Europe and Asia.

[R B Garr]

88. Trump copied the attacks on Hillary which he got from

a certain someone on the left who viciously maligned her. So the "time to grow up" goes both ways. This is what they got for all their efforts.

[Jim Lane]

103. Yes, I remember Trump's denunciation of Clinton for opposing single-payer health care.

I also remember how, in the 2008 general election, John McCain ran an ad directly picking up the "3:00 a.m. phone call" attack that had been made on Barack Obama by one of his primary opponents.

The difference between these two incidents is that one actually happened and the other is wholly fictitious.

[R B Garr]

123. You obviously haven't read the Mueller indictments. Current news about

exactly what I posted. It's so real and true that Mueller has issued fact-filled indictments about the attack on our election. You should read the Mueller indictments. It will save you a lot of trouble grasping at completely obscure analogies that fall completely flat. You're welcome.

[ExciteBike66]

112. LOL this was reported for fighting the primary, but I assume you are talking about Stein

and not Sanders, correct?

[R B Garr]

124. LOL, thanks for letting me know.

[bettyellen]

131. Yes, aided by the polite fiction that WWC only cared about the economy yet it turns out

Their bread and butter issues were really about keeping some of us away from the table entirely.

[R B Garr]

135. Exactly, bettyellen. Their stated goals were quite dubious.

I love your term "polite fiction" -- perfect description.

[bettyellen]

141. Feel free to plagerize it, since you're not Melania I think it's fine and dandy to share!

[R B Garr]

151. Love it! Actually, I read one of your posts the other day about

"indoctrination" -- you were talking about followers of a certain Senator, and it really resonated so I think I used it in a sentence shortly after that! I meant to post that to you but got busy IRL. That was also a perfect word choice and explanation of what we've noticed.

[bettyellen]

159. Wow, I'm very flattered. It's scary what we're facing with the media elevating trolls and

Their distractions and both siderist crap I’m feeling an urgent need to cut through he bullshit. It’s hard to do that without excess rancor. But the pain being put on the least among us- while the media downplays the outright racism and sexism were facing makes it hard.

Thank you so much for the encouragement! It matters greatly.

[R B Garr]

194. You're very welcome, my pleasure! Love your posts.

Agreed about the urgent need to cut through the bullshit! The alternate universe facts are not what Democrats are about. It is so divisive.

[bettyellen]

195. Likewise. You're one of my faves here. This whole week

Has been upsetting I just had to cut an old friend off over the excuses he’s making for the child separation stuff. Latino, son of immigrants, father of a young girl and professed Catholic. I’m just too disgusted for words these days, we are looking at the underbelly of society now.

[R B Garr]

223. Well, my turn to thank you. :)

I have a family member who was a Perot voter back in the day, so I get really honed in to the bullshit really fast, and it’s hard to let people get away with absurd fantasies. But this has all gotten very ugly. It is hard to look at people the same after you see the inhumanity. Sorry to hear about your friend. Makes you wonder where the bottom is to all this.

[revmclaren]

114. You didn't vote for Clinton

and you proudly state this here... On Democratic Underground? Oh Skinner and MIRT...here's one of those no Hillary people you said who doesn't belong here!

[Croney]

32. I have a relative, a well-informed lawyer, who still doesn't see what she did.

She loves calling herself an independent and will probably vote for some spoiler candidate again. She has the nerve to bemoan the state of the country now, with no recognition of her part. Education does not equal wisdom.

[Cha]

38. You're absolutley right.. education does Not equal wisdom..

Look at Dr Ben Carson.. for one egregious example.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

34. They're delusional as the dotard

They always congratulate themselves for not compromising their principles

[Cha]

39. "Principles".. stein and sarandon Lie to the Voters..

they don't even have principles.

[Joediss]

46. There all the sanne

Don't forget the one that said there all the same.I had a a brother and and a sister like that that

[Gothmog]

47. A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump

Stein, Sarandon, and JPR readers all played a role in trump's victory

[lovemydogs]

51. Let's get past the whole resentment thing and dwelling over and over on 2016

Let's look forward and work on solutions.

And no, I did not vote for Stein or Johnson or anything like that.
It's just I am tired of the few who keep replaying 2016 over and over and dwell on the past.
On what is and cannot be undone.

[Cha]

54. We're highlighting Jill Stein's and Sarandon's LIES

so Voters won't be so quick to be SUCKERED in the next time.

As in knowing History so it Does NOT Fucking Repeat Itself.

[lovemydogs]

56. Those voter knew what they were voting for.

They were not suckered.
However, What's done is done. Period.
How is replaying 2016 over and over, complaining and hanging onto resentments doing anyone any good?
At some point people have to let things go.
Those who voted for Stein made a choice and knew voting 3rd party was taking votes away but, there is nothing that can be done now.
You cannot change the past.
All you can do is move forward.

[Cha]

60. The Stein Voters were LIED to.. They Voted for LIES.

Your trying to make us shut down discussion is not working.

[Trumpocalypse]

67. No but we can shame them into not doing is again.

[heaven05]

52. +++ nt.

[FM123]

53. She sure fooled a lot of people!

[lovemydogs]

58. No she did not. People knew Stein was a flake

They made a choice to vote for her. They were not stupid. They knew what she was about and she was flakey.
They made their choice for whatever reasons they had but, not because they were stupid

[Cha]

63. Stein Voters were Suckered by LIES.

[lovemydogs]

70. I disagree. People on DU are too well informed.

They know politics.
Their voting for Stein was not lack of knowledge. Or being Naive.
But, you cannot change that.
We need to make sure democrats get into office in the future.
We need to wipe out gerrymandering for one thing

[Cha]

71. So what.. it doesn't change the reality.

[lovemydogs]

75. Exactly, Cha. It doesn't change the hell we are in today

It is maddening. It is depressing seeing what is happening.
Trump wants to destroy democracy, our institutions, our country.
We see the hell everyday and new hell everyday.
When he won I cried everyday for 3 months. I knew what it meant

[lovemydogs]

64. People who hang out on DU are not politically naive.

They tend to be better informed on politics and issues then the average voter.

I firmly believe many of Trump's voters were Me, Too people. Not aware of issues or candidates. Easily swayed due to not really knowing what is going on. Friends, Co-workers and family may have been very pro trump.
They see all these people hyped by Trump so they go along to get along. They don't really know what he's about.

But, those who voted for Stein and are DU members are not like that. They are smart, savvy and informed.
They had their reasons but, being fooled is not one of them.

However, dwelling on it is not doing anything. You can't change the past so, let's get dems into office in 2018;.

[stonecutter357]

69. Did you fall for it?

[lovemydogs]

72. Snort. You've gotta be kidding.

I am definitely not naive about politics.

[lovemydogs]

80. I cried everyday for 3 months when Trump won.

[Cha]

82. I know right.

Good Morning, stonecutter

[Cha]

77. Yes, Stein and Sarandan's LIES FOOLED a lot of SUCKERS.

If stein and ssarandan had told the truth they wouldn't have gotten those votes in swing states.

[jalan48]

57. While you're blaming don't forget the 90+ million eligible voters who didn't vote.

[Cha]

61. "Blaming" Yeah, calling out Jill Stein's and Sarandon's Fucking LIES

[jalan48]

76. Never ending, "It's the voter's fault". I don't think it's an effective campaign strategy.

Let's focus on now and winning the mid-terms. Hillary's loss was 19 months ago.

[Cha]

79. It's LIARS stein and sarandon's FAULT

[jalan48]

83. Okie dokie.

[Jim Lane]

113. Unless tomorrow it goes back to being Comey's fault. Or the Russians'.

And maybe, when the latest Two Minutes Hate about Stein is over, we can go back to mentioning voter suppression and hackable machines.

[Cha]

115. You really need to get up to speed.. that has

nothing to do with this discussion.

If you've been paying attention you would know there were more than a few enablers that got trump rigged in.

[Jim Lane]

119. Thank you, that's precisely my point

You write, "If you've been paying attention you would know there were more than a few enablers that got trump rigged in." Well, duh, I have been paying attention, which is why I mentioned other factors.

You say this "has nothing to do with this discussion." This discussion (i.e. this thread) includes the statement that "Stein, Sarandon and JPR types are the reason why trump was elected". Note the definite article -- the reason. Others who haven't written those exact words have implied their agreement.

If you're saying that "Stein, Sarandon and JPR types" are not the sole reason for Trump's election, then I welcome your siding with me on this score.

[stonecutter357]

59. K&R !

[vsrazdem]

62. Please just get over it and stop blaming everyone for Trump being elected and his actions.

This is really getting old.

[Trumpocalypse]

65. So we should get over children being put in cages.

And Stein's voters are as responsible as Trump voters.

[vsrazdem]

101. No. Trump is responsible for this.

[Trumpocalypse]

104. And Stein voters helped him become President.

[Cha]

66. Thanks for Kicking the thread with your "really getting old"

shtick.

[Mariana]

148. To be fair

they aren't blaming everyone for Trump being elected and for his actions. The Trump voters are getting a pass.

[NCTraveler]

68. They view these children and their parents as a threat to the white working class.

That was made abundantly clear on the campaign trail.

If you need back-up of how long they have been entrenched in these views, please see the exact reason why their deity was opposed to a pathway to citizenship in '07. He did not hold back.

[lovemydogs]

74. No. They view them as a threat to whites in general!

[NCTraveler]

85. Correct. I agree.

What they have done is find a way to dress it up as economic concerns directed at the white working class that sounds more friendly than Trumps overt racism. It is insidious racism, none the less. It's how they soften their propaganda on this issue.

[treestar]

81. None of this would have happened had Hillary been the POTUS

She herself just made a statement against it.

Our standing in the world would be normal.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

155. True, and to Hillary's credit, she took partial responsibility for her loss and the mess we're in.

[lapucelle]

172. Others need to take "partial responsibilty".

Stein voters are among them.

[workinclasszero]

86. Susan Sarandon: Trump win could bring 'revolution immediately'

Trump winning the presidency over Hillary Clinton could be preferable, says Susan Sarandon, because Trump may 'bring the revolution' and 'things will really explode.' Feb.14.2017

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/susan-sarandon-trump-win-could-bring-revolution-immediately-877424707847

[struggle4progress]

216. "We can push people into the gendarmes' bayonets to jumpstart the revolt!"

[workinclasszero]

237. Exactly, right?

Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon will observe the unwashed masses from their mansions on the hill suffering under the Trump regime and giggle.

Their millions in the bank will muffle the cries of separated babies that are 'bringing the revolution".

[DemocraticSocialist8]

87. Can we stop this divisive and counter-productive argument? It's not helping and it's only

convincing people to entrench themselves more. Stein didn't even get 5% of the vote...she didn't come close and most Bernie supporters voted for Clinton. Stop blaming the Left for what's going on. Blame voter suppression if anything. That's the reason Trump won, widespread voter suppression and 2016 was the first election since the 1960's without the full protections of the 1965 VRA. That played much more of a role in Trump's election than Stein and Sanders.

Please stop these counter-productive and misinformed arguments.

[Cha]

90. Talk to jill stein and susan sarandan.. they're the ones who

divided with their LIES.

There's no division here.. we all agree that the 3rd party Greens are Lying ASSHOLES.

[Bluepinky]

96. These DU posters can't help themselves, the same ones post the same shit over and over.

Of course it’s voter apathy and suppression that are the major problems, but it’s more fun to stir the pot and blame the Left.

I voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general elections; I believe Bernie may have beaten Trump had he been the nominee in the general election. My main goal in 2016 was beating Trump; I knew he would be a disaster, and he’s far worse than anything I imagined. Hillary or Bernie would have made a great POTUS.

I don’t think it’s helpful for posters to keep bringing up these arguments either.

[Cha]

106. Look who's talking.. "These DU posters can't help themselves, the same ones post the same shit over

and over."

[Trumpocalypse]

110. Those who fail to learn from history

are doomed to repeat it. And now two Democratic candidates, who won the popular vote, have lost an election because of Green party candidates siphoning off votes in key states.

[Bluepinky]

137. That's a legitimate point. 😟

The third party candidates are a problem. It was devastating when Ralph Nader siphoned off votes from Al Gore in the Presidential election years ago; I kept hoping Nader would do the right thing and drop out of the race ahead of the election, but he never did. If not for him, Gore would have been President.

I don’t know how to combat this except to have candidates that speak to people and excite them into registering to vote and then actually vote. Barack Obama did that and he won.

[R B Garr]

139. Wrong. It is a pervasive need to ignore reality that is going on here

and is being met with resistance. Trying to force an alternate reality on people that is just not matched by the facts we have before us will always be met with resistance. No more alternate facts from "the Left". We have the election results before us, and we know that there was sabotage of our candidate from every direction. All it took was 75,000 people nationally.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

227. So true... so predictable!!

[Trumpocalypse]

107. Never said a word about Sanders.

It is irrelevant to bring him into this. But Stein voters should take responsibility for their actions.

[Tom Rinaldo]

92. We are so obsessed over one million "Green Votes". Meanwhile 40% of Americans don't vote.

If we put 1/10th of the energy into reaching them as we do with arguing over "wayward leftists " Democrats would control all branches of government.

These studies reference the 2012 election but they remain highly relevant:

"US non-voters: who are they and what do they think?
Who are the US non-voters? According to the latest research they are young, less educated and would back Obama"
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/02/us-elections-2012-non-voters-demographics

"US non-voters are younger, less educated and would back Obama according to new research which looks at the sizable minority who either are unable to vote or choose not to.

The findings by the Pew Research Center show that around half of non-voters identify as Democrats or lean Democratic whilst only 27% identify as Republicans or lean Republican. Obama is first choice for non-voters with 59% choosing the US president and 24% choosing Romney...

...The report also looks at the opinions of non-voters on domestic and foreign policy issues as well as social issues. Pew found that a higher percentage of non-voters than likely voters agreed that the government should do more to solve problems. Certain issues, such as tax policy, saw smaller differences between those likely to vote and non-voters." MUCH MORE AT LINK


Nonvoters in America
http://nonvotersinamerica.com/
In 2012, 40 percent of Americans didn’t vote. The research on this website is an attempt to determine why so many citizens opt out of this fundamental civic duty, using extensive survey research as well as interviews with nonvoters to give a voice to those who are often ignored or marginalized by politicians and the news media.

In addition to gaining a better understand of the attitudes of nonvoters, the research explores ways the news media could better engage nonvoters, which would increase the overall media usage and consumption.
MUCH MORE AT LINK

[Jim Lane]

116. Very good analysis, but let me add one point.

About the nonvoters, it's reasonable to ask, as per one of your excerpts, "Why so many citizens opt out of this fundamental civic duty...." We should also note, however, that some of the nonvoters didn't opt out. They were pushed out by GOP voter suppression. While those who opted out were probably far more numerous, the others deserve attention, too.

[Tom Rinaldo]

158. Agreed. That must always be noted, and fought against

As significant as that voter suppression is (very) the "opt outers" still likely number in the tens of millions.

[leftstreet]

138. +1

[NY_20th]

97. Everyone knew what was at stake

Anyone who didn't run to the polls to prevent this monstrosity is complicit.

The election was a no-brainer. People who did not vote for Hillary Clinton failed us all.

[Hekate]

98. Jillsie struck me as a consequence-free sort of person during the campaign. That is...

...the outcome was going to have nothing to do with her, and she would harbor no regrets over her behavior.

Chances are, the people who voted for her are much the same.

[disillusioned73]

109. Is this horse dead yet??

asking for a friend..
?itok=A_m8gh-j&resize=1260x560

[Trumpocalypse]

111. Why so defensive?

[Cha]

117. Some of them can't stand it when anyone talks about

Jill Stein's LIES. Not sure why they get so prickly.

[BannonsLiver]

220. Guilt.

[PDittie]

276. I think that might be

a jackass.

[Autumn]

118. The Green party was formed in 2001. I think they have no problem with how they

voted, she has run for president twice in their party. I blame the EC for Trump since more people voted for Hillary than Trump or any other presidential candidate in 2016.

[Pathwalker]

142. Who did Nader run under in 2000, then?

wasn't it the Green party?

[Autumn]

143. Yes Nader did run as a Green. I looked at this site and it said 2001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_of_the_United_States

but mentions Nader in 2000 further down. The Greens are as messy as their Wiki page

[Pathwalker]

145. Yeah, I saw that before I posted. Seems they have a bad case of amnesia,

or they're hoping we do.

[Autumn]

147. Yep. I knew it was somewhere around there. You would think they

would at least proof read .

[Jim Lane]

164. Don't blame us Wikipedians. We've carefully noted the organizational complexities.

You linked to the Wikipedia article about the Green Party of the United States. That article states:

The Green Party of the United States (GPUS or Greens) is a green federation of political parties in the United States.[11] The party promotes green politics, specifically environmentalism, nonviolence, social justice, participatory, grassroots democracy, gender equality, LGBT rights, anti-war and anti-racism. On the political spectrum, the party is generally seen as left-wing.[2]

The GPUS was founded in 2001 as the evolution of the Association of State Green Parties (ASGP), which was formed in 1996.[12] After its founding, the GPUS soon became the primary national green organization in the country, eclipsing the Greens/Green Party USA (G/GPUSA), which formed in 1991 out of the Green Committees of Correspondence (CoC), a collection of local green groups active since 1984.[13] The ASGP had increasingly distanced itself from the G/GPUSA in the late 1990s.[14]

The Greens gained widespread public attention during the 2000 presidential election, when the ticket composed of Ralph Nader and Winona LaDuke won 2.7% of the popular vote. Nader was vilified by many Democrats and even some Greens, who accused him of spoiling the election for Al Gore, the Democratic candidate.[15] The degree of Nader's impact on the 2000 election remains controversial.[16][17]

As that article notes, nowadays the term "Greens" tends to refer to the Green Party of the United States (GPUS) rather than to the Greens/Green Party USA (G/GPUSA). As the Wikipedia article about the G/GPUSA notes:

The Greens/Green Party USA (G/GPUSA) formed out of the Green Committees of Correspondence [1] in 1990 and was recognized as a national political party by the FEC from 1991 to 2005. It is based in Chicago. Synthesis/Regeneration, an affiliated journal of green social thought, is published in St. Louis. The now predominant Green Party of the United States split from the G/GPUSA in 2001.

It goes on to point out that "The G/GPUSA is not an electoral party, although some of its members participate in elections."

I generally say that the Green Party has been running candidates in presidential elections since 1996, which was Nader's first run. This is a slight oversimplification. In 1996 he was not formally nominated by the Green Party, and in 2000 the organizational banner was still ASGP rather than GPUS (and certainly not G/GPUSA). No word yet on whether the Peoples Army of Judea has taken a position.

[Autumn]

168. So Steins Green party was created in 2001? I was not aware

that Nader wasn't formally nominated by the Green Party. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Jim Lane]

173. It seems to have been closer to a renaming than a creation.

There was an organization that backed Nader in 2000. It's just that it was called the Association of State Green Parties. I'm guessing that the transition to a national Green Party meant more centralization along with the renaming, but that it wouldn't be accurate to say that the current Green Party was created in 2001, implying that there was nothing there before it.

Putting aside these ontological questions, here's what I think is important: Some people are dismissive (indeed, derisive) of the idea that progressives should work within the Democratic Party to try to move it to the left. They say that it's very difficult. With that I must unhappily agree -- but their error is in not applying the same standard to the alternative, namely the minor-party route. The Green Party has been at it for more than 20 years. All the party has to show for it is a handful of minor offices.

There are powerful forces within the Democratic Party that oppose the progressive agenda. Success will be a long, hard road. It will still be easier than the Green Party or People's Party approach.

[Blue_Tires]

120. Not just them, but any liberal pundit/useful idiot

who had the unmitigated gall to say Hillary was worse than Trump, or that a Trump presidency would secretly be the best thing to ever happen to Dems, or "Trump may be crazy, but at least he won't be boring and he'll stir up the status quo!" And now America is to the point where we'd sell our own grandmothers just to get back the pre-Trump status quo...

The political left got ratfucked and betrayed by false prophets... Two of the most re-tweeted Bernie fans on Twitter in 2016 (H.A. Goodman and Cassandra Fairbanks) are laughing their asses off writing for DailyCaller or Sputnik or whatever now... Others like Greenwald, Wheeler, Scahill, Fang, Adam Johnson, Sirota, Taibbi, Mark Ames, Bragman, Tracey, Timm, Radack, etc. have been leading the "ANTI-anti-Trump" agitprop brigade against the #Resistance, the KremlinGate investigation and so-called "establishment" Dems ever since the day after the election...

And I still maintain that if these shitstains are not challenged directly, exposed and dealt with, they will continue to kneecap us in future races and smugly mock our failures the morning after...

[bettyellen]

126. This is about the presidential election, not the primary as some have tried to assert.

[Cha]

129. Oh wow.. is that their problem?! They need

to know that Jill Stein and her Lies were in the GE.

[samnsara]

128. i agree....

[maxrandb]

134. Everytime I see Donnie Short Fingers

I want to punch a Stein voter right in the face!

[standingtall]

136. Any eligible voter who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee

is at least partly responsible for this mess along with the Russians and James Comey. Yes it is the voters fault. If enough didn't make a protest vote or vote third party Trump would not have been able steal the electoral college. As far as the argument about those that didn't vote. The turnout for 2016 was not low and there has never been %100 turnout anyway. How do we propose to improve voter turnout in the midst of voter suppression with republicans in control of most state governments and the supreme court without winning elections first?

[Blue_true]

149. Exactly. As far as I am concerned, they aren't worth my time anymore.

I don't care about what they think or how they feel. In November 8, 2016, a monumental moment for the world stared those fuckoffs in the face and they fucked up that moment.

[machoneman]

153. A pox on Stein and her supporters!

They should suffer!

[PubliusEnigma]

156. They really taught us all a lesson, huh?

[Trumpocalypse]

162. Yes they taught us how selfish they are.

[MichMan]

161. I would include those who donated $$ to Stein

They are just as complicit for enabling her lies and deceit

[xmas74]

171. Campaign money, yes.

The post election was a ruse to make money quickly while playing on fears. I know a few Clinton voters who donated to her fund for the recount out of fear for their families. (A friend has a trans child and she begged everyone to donate to the recount for fear of her daughter's future.)

I'll give a pass to the recount donations but the campaign? Nope.

[MichMan]

191. Why give a pass to the recount donations?

The "recount" donations were sent after it was known what Stein had done. They are allowing her to continue to spread her lies and deceit.

Anyone with any amount of intelligence could have seen through the recount scam.

[xmas74]

250. I knew what she was doing but I know others

Who sent out of fear. As I said in my other post I know of a woman who sent money for the recount for fear of her child. Her young teen daughter had just come out that year as trans. She was extremely fearful of a country that elected Trump and their attitude towards the LGBT community. She pleaded with people to donate, to demand a recount.

Fear is a powerful motivator and it does not always allow you to think straight. Just for the record-she was right about her daughter. Bullied and no school officials. Last fall she was nominated as Homecoming Queen as a nasty joke. The kids had a plan and the school refused to take her name off the ballot. They did not go through with it when a group of parents posted on Facebook that they would be recording every part of the ceremony, including constant cameras on the crowds-and if anything happened it would be posted on every social media site before the end of the game.

I say this because Stein fed into the fear, which makes her a totally repugnant subhuman. She approached the public, played up their biggest fears and then took their money.

[McCamy Taylor]

169. No, Trump is responsible. He has to stop trying to make us blame Stein.

[Cha]

170. Jill Stein's LIES iare responsible for her part is getting us trump...

Most of the People on this thread are way smart enough to know what happened with the election.

trump has nothing to do with "making us blame stein".. that particular POS is all on stein's LIES.

[Gothmog]

174. Sarandon helped nader in 2000 and trump in 2016

[saidsimplesimon]

177. Mon regrets,

I had to trash this thread. If it doesn't help in electing Democrats this November, it is a waste of time. imo

[Cha]

181. Thanks for Kicking a VERY IMPORTANT THREAD

that you Said you "trashed".

If we don't learn from history we repeat it.. those who are trying to stop our discussions on this don't seem to understand that.

[Devil Child]

205. What do you recommend to help convince 2016 Stein voters to support future Democratic candidates?

You are correct, if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. However, I have seen minimal attempts to learn as much as shout and vent.

[Cha]

207. I suggest those who got SUCKED into voting for Stein's LIES..

Do a little more Digging into her LIES and Not be so damn Gullible the next time.

[Scurrilous]

179. @#$% Jill Stein.

[democratisphere]

184. Add Bernie voters that did not support HRC!

[rpannier]

185. 29% of Hispanics that voted, voted for il douche

Seems they were a bigger problem than the stein asshats

[StevieM]

187. That is absolutely not true. I understand why you may think that, but it is incorrect.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-pedraza-latino-vote-20170111-story.html

[rpannier]

188. I counter

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/03/trump-really-did-win-28-latino-vote/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/06/26/why_trump_is_earning_latino_support_134288.html
The second one is commentary based on the numbers and leans rather right

on edit
Roper Center at Cornell University has it as 28%
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/

I am looking for CCES data

[StevieM]

189. The LA Times article makes more sense to me than the Mother Jones article.

But I do appreciate your taking time to provide information.

[JI7]

190. those are anti gay right wingers

[Cha]

200. And, we hear from susan fucking sarandon..

Link to tweet

[stonecutter357]

201. Hi cha !

[Cha]

206. Aloha, stonecutter! A word from Donnie L'll Hands..

Link to tweet

Not just "backing stein" but fucking LYING about Hillary.

[SunSeeker]

254. LOL Love this response to Saradon's tweet:

Link to tweet

[Cha]

255. I know I saw that.. So true. Mahalo for postiing that here,

SunSeeker.

[Cha]

258. Hillary warned us this exactly would happen and you said Trump was better

Link to tweet

Another perfect one.

[Cha]

265. Astrid Silva Eloquently Calls Out susan sarandon..

Link to tweet

[SunSeeker]

268. Yep. Sarandon isn't fooling us! nt

[Cha]

269. It must be getting her goat.. she was already whining

about being shunned by her peers for her "activism"..

She's Lying again.. she being "shunned" for her LIES about Hillary.

Those who are shunning you aren't stupid, SS.. you just act like it.

[Wwcd]

256. Hey Susan, what are "Incarnation Systems" ?

Are they reincarnating the children into spirit form?

[Cha]

257. Hillary warned us this exactly would happen and you said Trump was better

Link to tweet

I like that response!

Yeah, I didn't know what she was talking about, either.. but then she never did know.

Wwcd

[Wwcd]

259. Good that she got the response she deserved

Face it Sarandon, You Don't Fking Care About Latino Children, Either!

SS proved her ZERO respect for Latino voices.

Hillary Warned The Country.
Susan would have maybe heard her if she'd have stopped yammering about the burn-it-all-down revolution idiocy long enough to fking listen.

She should just go off to her European multi-million$$$$ mansions while the Dems continue to show up at the border to demand justice for these Latino children

[Cha]

260. sarandan is a Lying RF and she has to gall to act like

she "cares". SS needs to be Shamed.

[Cha]

267. Astrid Silva calls out sarandon, too..

Link to tweet

Dreamer activist Astrid Silva shares her story

Thu, Nov 20

Astrid Silva, the activist mentioned by name by President Obama in his immigration speech, said her family will be relieved to know “these aren’t our last holidays together.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/dreamer-activist-astrid-silva-shares-her-story-361566275928

[sheshe2]

261. Sue...

You voted for Stein. You have no credibility whatso ever. STFU!

[Cha]

262. Not only that, she.. sarandon said trump was better

than Hillary and LIED her head OFF.. When Hillary warned us about the KIDS.



And, you know stein and ssarandan Are Planning on doing it again in 2020 Because they are doubling down and refuse to admit they were wrong.

[Cha]

266. I want you and Wwcd to see this Tweet from Astrid Silva, too..

Link to tweet

Remember her, she?

Dreamer activist Astrid Silva shares her story

Thu, Nov 20

Astrid Silva, the activist mentioned by name by President Obama in his immigration speech, said her family will be relieved to know “these aren’t our last holidays together.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/dreamer-activist-astrid-silva-shares-her-story-361566275928

[NurseJackie]

270. That's perfect! I will never forget what Sarandon did, and I will NEVER forgive her.

That's perfect! I will never forget what Sarandon did, and I will NEVER forgive her. She's as deplorable as if she'd been an outright Trump supporter. She was absolutely giddy at the thought of a Trump presidency and this "revolution" that would magically happen. Only... someone forgot to explain to her that a "revolution" doesn't happen when you willingly give all the power and control to the GOP. She's so stupid. I can't stand the sight of her.

All I'm trying to say is that she should just keep her mouth shut and fade into the background. The damage has been done. She needs to just GO THE FUCK AWAY.

[Cha]

272. I'm glad you got to see it, Jackie..

sarandon must have been ecstatic when SCOTUS rigged bush in, too.. and look how many soldier and civilians died because of nader and his LIES in Florida.. whom that idiot supported.

She also supported John Edwards.. she's a complete and utter Fool. I cannot stand the sight of her, either.

Aloha, Jackie

[dlk]

202. Sadly, They Are, as Being Right and Doing it Their Way is Most Important

[Le Taz Hot]

203. Only applicable in swing states

and there's no evidence that Third Party voters threw the election in those states.

[Cha]

208. Yes there is evidence and LYING Fucking Jill Stein told her SUCKERS

to vote for her in Swing States.

[Le Taz Hot]

210. I would be interested in seeing the

evidence that Jill Stein voters threw the election to Trump in swing states.

[Cha]

211. Jill Stein's LIES. All you have to do is Google.. it's been all over DU.. it's a known fact.

Trump's victory margin smaller than total Stein votes in key swing

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/308353-trump-won-by-smaller-margin-than-stein-votes-in-all-three

How Gary Johnson and Jill Stein helped elect Donald Trump

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/gary-johnson-jill-stein-spoiler/index.html

[Le Taz Hot]

212. Interesting opinion pieces.

One might also argue that had more people voted in those swing states, the outcome might have been different. Once could also argue that had Hillary convinced more people to vote for her, that also might have affected the outcome. One has to wonder what all those voters saw in Trump that they didn't see in Clinton. An election is rarely decided on one factor or element alone.

[Cha]

213. It's not an "opinion" it's a REALITY BASED FACT. Stein's LIES

helped give us the SHITE FUCKING Tragic Mess we're in now.. her that that RF LIAR Susan Sarandon. BOTH LIED their DAMN heads OFF.

[Devil Child]

214. Those are hard questions with even harder answers

When the questions get tough it is much easier to lash out at Stein and Stein voters. Nothing changes.

[Le Taz Hot]

217. I like to come back to DU

every now and again to poke at the hive.

[R B Garr]

222. Ah, good to know your "questions" are really just

“pokes at the hive”. That certainly explains your lack of seriousness in the framing of your issues.

[Le Taz Hot]

224. No, the questions were legitimate

albeit not conforming to set narrative so I can understand the confusion.

[R B Garr]

225. Not at all confused about your stated goal...

“poking the hive”....what better warning not to take you seriously, thanks.

[Le Taz Hot]

226. Just wanted to see if the classics still work.

They do.

[R B Garr]

228. Good to know not to take you seriously.

There’s a word for “poking at the hive”. Hmm, what could it be.

Seriously, though, JPR is behind times — not as “classic” as you think.

[revmclaren]

229. With posts like this at JPR...

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/answer-to-if-you-dont-vote-for-hillary-its-a-vote-for-trump/

I can see why you come back to Democratic Underground to 'poke the hive'.

Very revealing that your 'poking' is in a Jill Stein thread.



Only! 2018 - 2020.

[Le Taz Hot]

230. And yet, the logic is impeccable.

I'm finding the obsession with JPR amusing, though. That in itself has been worth the visit.

[revmclaren]

232. logic....

It has opened a lot of new eyes and reminded others of why Clinton Lost in the general and why we need to be extra watchful this time of wolves in sheep's clothing. Thank you for the reveal. Again....



Only! 2018 - 2020.

[R B Garr]

234. I bet you're not amused at all.

Which kinda sinks any claim to “logic” about your little visit to defend Jill Stein.

[Cha]

242. ..

RB

[R B Garr]

245. You too, Cha!

At least we see how the JPR folks describe their reason for being here, ahem...

[Cha]

249. I knew that when I

saw the first post. Dead give away.

[Trumpocalypse]

219. Yes nothing changes when

Stein voters, and Nader voters before them, refuse to acknowledge and take any responsibility for the consequences of their self righteous actions.

[Trumpocalypse]

218. Nice spin

But those articles stated undeniable facts. Not the alternative facts that you’re pushing.

[R B Garr]

221. That JPR website is in constant denial about the

election results and the attacks on Hillary/Democrats from the FBI, the GOP, the “left”, and Russia. They refuse to acknowledge the election facts we are all fully aware of now. Which category do you see yourself in? That will help direct you to the answers you seek, no doubt.

[revmclaren]

233. Check out my post 229...and the ensuing sub thread.

Amazing!!"

And not in a good way!

Only! 2018 - 2020.

[R B Garr]

235. Love it! I saw your link to the JPR website and

that explains it all. Great catch. Enough of this empty sabotage — you nailed it with “wolves in sheep’s clothing,

[revmclaren]

236. ...

We need to be extra Careful this time and watch our backs. Together we will prevail!

Only! 2018 - 2020.

[R B Garr]

239. Absolutely correct! Wish I could say more.....

[R B Garr]

231. Do you have any proof that Jill Stein didn't take

dark money from Vlad to help sink Hillary/Democrats? Those Mueller indictments say that her campaign was helped by the Russians. I know real and current news of indictments over Russia’s foreign attack of our election is not important to the JPR types who refuse facts, but it’s out there for the rest of us to know.

[MFM008]

238. They will try to fuck up

The next election with their bullshit.

[Wwcd]

271. Next election you have 2 choices. American Blue Wave or Kremlin Red Wave

"If you stand on the fringe lobbing bombs at the demise of democracy, then you surely stand with fascism.

There's only 2 choices this year & again in 2020.

You can be part of the solutuon or the problem.

Its that simple."

[populistdriven]

251. here here