i don't get white supremacism.

[barbtries]

how pathetic does a life have to be if all you can hang on to is the fact that you're white and some other people are not? how is it possible that they don't have other more engaging and positive ways to spend their energy?
how can there be whole communities built on something so negative and, just, just NOTHING?! they've got nothing that recommends their mindset. nothing that makes it make sense to a thinking person.
i don't want to get it. down with racism, bigotry and hate. it's the 21st century, catch up already. here we ALL are on this planet together. all human, all together on the planet. we need to do better and be better.

[Scuba]

1. About a dozen years ago an IT Director who worked for me hired a Pakistani man...

... after which an asshat in another department asked "Can't you find any white people to hire?"

Her response was immediate and wonderful: "Sorry, but the Arayan Brotherhood isn't turning out many engineers."

If "white supremacy" is your only claim to success, you've failed.

[Romulox]

21. US citizens come in all colors. I don't really think the OP is in support of H1Bs, either way. nt

[Scuba]

22. I'm sorry, I didn't make my point clear. The asshat in question would have been...

... very happy had we hired a white South African, a white European, etc.

It was about racism, not jobs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

29. I'm pretty certain ...

Rom understood that. It's his/her attempt at deflecting the issue.

[ieoeja]

37. Check out the frustrated white man thread.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021082753

At the end the guy sums it up by saying White guys should stop whining about race and concentrate on the rich dicks fucking us over. That person's response: "why does it always have to be abour race when it should be about class."

This poster creates a bit of a quandry. Ignoring the class warfare being waged upon us by the 0.00001% should be job #1. But this always seems to be stated in defense of all things White. Your theory (change the subject) fits the pattern.

[Scuba]

40. Yep, I recced that yesterday.

[1StrongBlackMan]

53. I posted to that thread yesterday ...

so that I could watch it at home; but life happened.

Maybe tonight.

[Romulox]

38. Sorry I brought up the issue of class in that thread. Insinuate I'm a racist now, to punish me! nt

[Warren Stupidity]

54. You didn't. You tried to hijack the thread into an H1-B discussion.

That has nothing to do with class.

[Romulox]

57. That wasn't my intention. I think it is odd to frame an employment issue that way, though.

Several posters make the attempt to conflate racism with opposition to either outsourcing or exploitative "guest worker" visas.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Why would I do that?

You have given me know reason to suspect that you are a racist ... though you would ignore racism/white priviledge (something that negatively affects me, but presumably benefits you) in favor of attacking classism.

[Romulox]

60. If I've misread you, I apologize. I'll admit to being hyper-sensitive to such accusations. However

I feel you have mis-characterized my position.

though you would ignore racism/white priviledge (something that negatively affects me, but presumably benefits you) in favor of attacking classism.

I would NOT ignore racism. It is real. It exists. I've witnessed it. That doesn't mean race and class are the same thing. I feel the difference is EXTREMELY important, and yet every time I bring it up, I am told it is the wrong time to discuss it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

62. No one will argue that race and class ...

are the same thing.

But to raise classism, in a discussion of racism, especially in a manner that suggests one evil (classism) is more evil (or relevant) than the evil being discussed, is inappropriate. It would be like raising the issue of female on male violence, in a discussion of battered women.

If you wish to discuss classism ... start a thread.

[barbtries]

33. the OP is in support

of peace on earth.

[yellerpup]

2. If all you have going for you is your skin color

you got nothin' to offer.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. I think that's kind of the thing....

If you go to a skinhead rally (and I really pray that you never do), you're not exactly going to feel the warm embrace of the upwardly-mobile. These are people who through their own actions, and sometimes maybe through no fault of their own, have fallen through the societal cracks. They've been beaten down pretty good -- just look at the emerging life story of the Oak Creek shooter.

Their last resort for self-esteem is the belief that the accident of having been born white somehow gives them status. When they look at minority groups getting ahead -- either from programs that target women and/or minority enrollment or from the simple fact that immigrants tend to be quite hardworking and industrious -- they start nursing a grudge. Start feeling as though some dark conspiracy has been formed against them.

Fueled by internet websites (a far more vile source of information than Rush Limbaugh), these people can go to some pretty dark places.

[yellerpup]

42. I grew up in a family of

gun nuts (literal), bigots, and haters, so I know intimately the self-esteem issues that these deluded types suffer. I pity them for going to and staying in those dark places where clear thought can't break through. We were dirt poor but my father insisted that we tell everyone we were 'upper middle class' while living in a squat without running water. I can't explain it, but hate speech does inflame the worst tendencies in their hateful philosophy. Being born white was all my father had going for him. What's more, that's all he believed he had going for him. He ended his life broke, embittered, and wanting to shoot 'somebody' for it. Yeah, dark places.

[barbtries]

51. i'm glad you made it out

with the ability to think. but again, if you could, why not all of your family? there is a willful ignorance at play and there is just no rationalization for it. sadly there are so many others in the same nasty rut that the haters may not see much of an upside in trying to learn and grow beyond that.

[yellerpup]

56. The price of 'going against yer raising"

is alienation from your family. That's too huge a price for many people to pay. My siblings aren't like my parents, but my parents never knew my brother and sister didn't agree with them. I started standing up and speaking out against racism when I was 13 years old (Civil Rights era) and was known ever-after as a Commie dupe and troublemaker. The last time I saw my mom was when she was dying in the hospital and I hadn't seen her for 10 years before that day. The reason? She drew her pistol on me when I would not agree (in front of the grandchildren) that "Oliver North would make the best damn president this country has ever had." I felt bad about it for many years, but as my therapist advised: 'It's not you; it's them."

[barbtries]

58. you have my respect.

and you've come a long way. your therapist was totally right.

[yellerpup]

61. All I did was stay true to myself

and stand up for the things I think are right. After the gun-pulling incident it was clear that I could never 'go home' again. I used to suffer from long bouts of depression; now that they are dead I don't have that any more. Thanks for your support, barbtries.

[Solomon]

3. Its the system we live in. We all participate in one

degree or another. Your statement, " I don't get white supremacy" is more profound than you realize.

[brush]

4. You nailed it

Your post is so well put. You reduced racism down to its nonsensical, lowest common denominator, "I'm white and you're not", or 0=0.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. It's not white supremacism, it's Evil; with a capital E

And no, I'm not trying to be melodramatic. Peace, Beauty, Power, Pleasure and Logic are all part of what is Good. Evil seeks to destroy or corrupt those things. It is only logical that embracing all people expands the amount of Peace, Beauty, Power and Pleasure in one's life. Racism will never be logical because Evil seeks to destroy all that is Good.

[Homer Wells]

6. I find it tragically ironic

that the very worst examples of the white citizenry are the ones who claim superiority!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. Change "white citizenry" to "humanity" and you've got a +1 n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

32. I know, right?

Thanks for representing the "best" of what it means to be a caucasian!

[Yavin4]

7. Being White Did Come with a Lot of Privileges

You could be mediocre or less at something, but you still got jobs, housing, promotions, etc. simply because you were a White male. The White supremacist wants all the rewards without having to prove him/herself. They want them based on skin color alone.

[uponit7771]

18. ...it still does.

[Yavin4]

23. True, But Far, Far Less Than It Once Was

Today, it's all about wealth and nothing else.

[1StrongBlackMan]

43. Unless ...

Today, it's all about wealth and nothing else.

One happens to be non-white ... Then, while wealth matters, it still does not erase race.

I recommend that you read:

The Rage of a Priviledged Class by Ellis Cose

http://elliscose.com/bookshelf/the-rage-of-a-privileged-class/

[siligut]

49. That is what the do-nothing wealthy want you to think

That, in fact, is what Rove and Co. are counting on. Well, that and the white thing. :blech:

[pampango]

9. "here we ALL are on this planet together. all human, all together on the planet."

Well said.

[Skidmore]

10. It's the refuge of the former masters of a dismantled system of slavery.

Where do you take all that sense of superiority when the law has stripped it from you? What do you become when you need to compete for resources with those who were singled out to be inferior by race? Slavery in America was ended by law not that long ago. Jim Crow laws were a substitute until the civil rights movement and legislation eliminated them. It has been less than a lifetime ago for most boomers in which these changes occurred. The civil rights era took place during my childhood and teen years. It is not ancient history.

We can do better and we can start by not looking aside when we see it. We can start by speaking out and not being silent. We can start by not backing down in the face of threats. And the follow through needs to occur in the white community, in our public areas, in them market place, in our workplaces, and , yes for some, in their families and homes. It is sad that something like this still needs to be said.

Until you've been front line in dealing with racism, hatred, and discrimination, you will not understand how deeply entrenched in the culture it is. It will not be overcome by slogans and sentiments, but by actual confrontation with those who engage in it. I'm not talking about guns. The racists of the nation have armed because they want an armed confrontation. How many times over the past 50 years have we heard of someone trying to gin up a race war in this nation? Those efforts never work when light is shined on the nasty little nests of hardcore proponents.

[JoeyT]

67. The people that are white supremacists

would rarely have actually been "masters". What they would have been were dirt poor sharecroppers that were glad they had someone else to look down on and abuse.

Though I suppose you're right, since they're all utterly convinced that if slavery hadn't ended they'd all be rich.

[warrior1]

11. It's also in this instanced,

cloak in a perverted version of Christianity. If "God" said it, we must be the chosen ones.

[riverwalker]

12. I would like

to have each of these swastika tatooed and nazi-wannabes locked in a room full of WW2 Veterans.

[hifiguy]

13. It has always made me scratch my head as well.

Particularly because the supremacist-leaning people I have encountered in my life have been the absolute scum of "whiteness."

Anti-semitism is something I find equally inexplicable.

[slampoet]

14. If you don't get White Supremacy, then you must not think you are better than everyone else.

Good.

[HopeHoops]

15. Oh, they have more engaging things - FOX Noise and Limbaugh!

As for positive... well, I'm drawing a blank on that one.

[nichomachus]

16. Definitely time to revisit this

If you haven't seen it, it's enlightening. If you have, it's always good to review.

Tim Wise on "The Creation of Whiteness"

[barbtries]

64. id never seen it

thank you.. i'm going to you tube and posting it to fb now.

[Nye Bevan]

17. But white people are supreme!

Take this guy, for example.

[seabeyond]

19. it is the extreme of white privilege that so many deny. he KNOWS he is entitled to so much more

that he is not getting. he needs a scape goat for his failure rather than own it himself. an extreme version of white privilege

[BOG PERSON]

20. you would have understood white supremacism

a hundred years back. or hell, even fifty years back. but white ppl aren't king shit of fuck mountain anymore. (that doesnt mean things get any better for the toiling masses, it just means the upper crust is more *representative*)

[barbtries]

34. i hope not.

i wasn't there, but if it was that universal we'd still have slavery and every other dark convention that arises from institutionalized racism.
i mean i was there almost 57 years ago, but i was a baby. however i can recall being incensed by my mother's demonstrated racism at a very tender age, maybe 10 years old.

[Lizzie Poppet]

24. It's like nationalism.

I think you can apply to racial supremacism (white, black,what-have-you...) what Doug Stanhope said about nationalism:

"Nationalism does nothing but teach you how to hate people you never met and take pride in accomplishments you had no part in whatsoever..."

[pampango]

30. "Nationalism does nothing but teach you how to hate people you never met and take pride in

accomplishments you had no part in whatsoever..."

You could support 'racism' for 'nationalism' in the quote and it would be just as accurate: "Racism does nothing but teach you how to hate people you never met and take pride in accomplishments you had no part in whatsoever..."

Interesting quote. Thanks, Lizzie Poppet.

[barbtries]

36. yep

pithy quote, i like it.

[Romulox]

46. Nationalism should be distinguished from "populism", however, which is about banding together for

the common good.

It would be all too easy to conflate the two, if one wished.

[Zoeisright]

25. That's because you're not a loser.

Anyone who is white in this country who isn't well off and blames others for it is a loser. It's pretty simple.

[BOG PERSON]

35. reminds me of something the humorist fran lebowitz said

“Any white gentile straight male who is not President of the United States failed.”

[Berlum]

26. Fear

Fear is at the heart of almost all right-wing Republican crap.

Republicans live in fear.

The White Supremacy delusion is based on right-wing Republican FEAR
that they just aren't good enough, gosh darn it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Someone said, "George Bush is proof

that white supremacy is a lie." Don't remember who said that, but it sure makes the point.

[1StrongBlackMan]

44. But, at the same time, ...

He serves as proof of white priviledge.

[uponit7771]

59. +1, this is what makes most black folk I know mad as hell. Bush was a dumb ass

[gopiscrap]

28. so much of these attitudes IMHO

come from family orientation, ignorance, lack of education and isolation.

[janlyn]

39. out of the mouths of babes

White supremacy is based in ignorance..It's simple,people hate and fear what they don't understand.

Education is the key to eradicating racism,the more we teach our children tolerance and unity, the less hate on the next generation.




When my daughter was 7 yrs. old she came home from school crying because a boy had called her best friend the "N" word.She asked me why? And I tried to explain that some people are just mean...not a very good explanation ,but what else could i say..

So she went to her room for a while and then she came out and she said "momma I think I know why that boy said that" so I asked her why and she floored me with her grasp on the situation she said " because crystal is different than him, and he is afraid of her because she looks different..he doesn't know any better"

WOW just, WOW!!!

[barbtries]

48. wise for her years.

she figured out that it was based on her friend's physical looks. then she learned what the n word meant as well. happily she was raised by a parent who could teach her that looks are only skin deep.

[4th law of robotics]

41. Any kind of X-supremacy is silly to me

unless X is something you actually achieved on your own.

[Odin2005]

45. It gives poor whites somebody "below" them to feel better than.

[barbtries]

47. exactly what i don't get.

we as people do not actually need to feel superior to others in order to have a fulfilling life. nor do we need to be superior. this touches on another area i am frustrated by, which is religion. too many of them preach that only they get to go to heaven. and this becomes an important reason for their followers to join. wtf

[BOG PERSON]

52. of course, the flipside of the exclusivist religion

is its universalism. all are equal before God, anybody can come to understand the one true faith, be cleansed of their past, etc.

edit. the point i think i am trying to make is that racism is anti-universalist. the best it can muster is a crude sort of pluralism (i.e. you stick w/ yours and i stick w/ mine).

[Octafish]

50. It's how one person can be ''one-up'' on another.

Like feudalism, a hierarchy benefits some more than others.

Details on the Olde Game from way back:

Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

[Thinkingabout]

63. Maybe because they wish they was not white.

[Denninmi]

65. Well, I don't get it, either.

I live in the 'burbs of Detroit, and it's a very integrated area, many immigrants from all around the world, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, South and East Asian, many people from central and eastern Europe especially the former Soviet countries.

When I see people like an elderly Indian couple that live in my neighborhood and walk a lot, I think to myself that her cooking would probably be awesome, that people from various places add charm and interest, that we have Muslims living next to Christians next to Jews next to Hindus in my immediate neighborhood, and we're all richer for it.

[ailsagirl]

71. "...we're all richer for it."

Thank you for the lovely post!

[pampango]

72. Nice post. A lot of folks don't view people from around the world so positively. Immigrants do make

our lives "richer". Always have, always will.

[Sick of the GOP]

66. why some whites are supremacists...

I should know, half my family are WS.
Certain white people (a small amount, mostly men) think that humanity is somehow split up into vastly different races, as if this is Middle Earth or something. WS see themselves as humans, higher evolved than blacks, Asians, etc, who they see as orcs, dwarves, elves, etc. WS think that the "white race" is in danger of "extinction," because they see only whites as human. All in all, they're just fucking dumb as hell, but DANGEROUS.

[JoeyT]

68. Looks to me like you understood it just fine.

A bunch of people with jack shit for accomplishments other than happening to be born white are pissed off the world doesn't kneel at their feet sums up most of the white power groups.

[barbtries]

69. that's the part i can see,

but what tends to baffle me is how anyone could be satisfied or even capable of pursuing happiness let alone achieving it, if that's all they got.
but now i'm going in circles. it is what it is.

[JoeyT]

70. They're not pursuing happiness.

They're miserable bastards and want to be sure everyone else are miserable bastards. They don't care how bad their life is, as long as they've got someone they can kick down at.

They take the Republican attitude of "I'll live in a shack as long as I can force you to live in a ditch" to its logical conclusion.

[barbtries]

73. apparently.

sigh. pretty hard to get.