You do know, right?

[boston bean]

The the people on the left side of the spectrum who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election fell for Russian psyops and cyberwarfare?

We must learn from this. We must know and understand the consequences for not voting for the democrat.

This cannot be swept under the rug.

No one. And I mean no one should be blaming Hillary for anything. If you see people doing this to this very day after all we know, be very wary. They are either not a democrat or are a Russian troll. There is no in between. Not after all we know now. Proven. Indisputable that there was russian hacking in our election. The election was stolen.

[Ohiogal]

1. I heard people saying

that Hillary was "untrustworthy" who I thought probably would have voted for her. (as if Trump is worthy of trust???) Gee, where did they get that idea?

My sister told me Hillary has a whole bunch of files or something in her attic that prove that she was involved in the deaths of her enemies or some strange cuckoo thing like that. I'm like, oh really? So why haven't investigators seized these so-called files? Well, the Clintons paid them off! she says. Another case of widespread lies.

It boggles my mind that otherwise sane and rational people believed all the garbage the Russians threw out there onto Facebook and what else. Just mind boggling how people can believe such blatant lies!

[Chemisse]

2. The suggestion that the Clintons murdered a bunch of people

has been around since Bill's first term in office. I recall seeing a list of all the people who had died, who had had some kind of connection to the Clintons.

[Danmel]

10. I know someone who believes Hillary had John Kennedy's

Plane taken down to keep him from primarying her for the NY Senate seat.🙄

[Fred Sanders]

18. Psych-ops is the same thing as advertising, all meant to influence. And paid for per person who

is watching and listening.

Cash counts because humans are humans...and manipulatiable simply by suggestion, even if based on lies...of which Republicans mass produce.

[Mc Mike]

20. But psy warfare vs the US's citizens is no ad for Tide.

[Fred Sanders]

22. No, much cheaper than national ads for anything! Not to mention...

no need to put a "Putin" label on your product!

[Mc Mike]

27. But psywarfare infrastructure costs billions to create and maintain, so they're

able to externalized costs in a way Tate and Stevens or Mad Men never dreamed of.

The tragedy of the commons.

[certainot]

55. if putin would pay $1000/hr for a pro putin infomercial 1200 radio stations

doing standard 15 hrs/day would be worth $18 mil /day or $5bil/yr FREE and basically unfactored and invisible to liberals

[Fred Sanders]

56. Paragraph 11 of the FBI affadivit filed in support of the arrest warrant of Russian spy Buttina

would support my conclusion, I think. Specifically calling Russian psych-ops low cost, low risk and deniable means to peddle influence. They do not cost billions...12 military officers already on salary a how much for computers and related items?

Low cost, low risk, deniable crime and huge returns. Any evil businessman would delight in this.

[certainot]

57. and kompromat on limbaugh, say since he got caught w/case of viagra coming

back from costa rica, would be very low cost and worth trillions in global warming denial, deregulation, supremes, etc

[EffieBlack]

28. I have a friend who insists Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster murdered

And claims that a friend of his who is a DC police detective told her that Foster was killed elsewhere and his body moved, but it was covered up.

I asked him why his friend is willing to tell HIM all this but won't report it to the FBI or the media . . . never get a good answer to this.

[GetRidOfThem]

14. People believed the lies to the extent that someone

walked into a Pizza Parlor to shoot up the place to stop Hillarie's supposed child sex trafficking ring.

Let's just have this one sink in a little bit. Just a bit...


THIS IS PURE INSANITY!!!

[justhanginon]

40. The place, Comet Pizza, does not even have a basement.

The psy-ops people don't even have to check their bullshit before coming up with this crap. I guess there is no need to since the gullible idiots that the people who would believe this ridiculous crap will certainly not be bothered to.

[olegramps]

19. A major factor was the failure of the press to expose Trump and inform the public.

We have a serious problem with the current major news media that is no different then their gross incompetence leading up to the Iraq war. They continue to provide the people with a totally misconstrued analysis through their false equivalency of both sides of any debate that is totally devoid of any objective examination of the facts. When this scenario is coupled with a powerful voice of the extreme so-called conservative broadcasters spreading absolute lies we have a situation that can only be catastrophic. The scene is like something out of Alice in Wonderland's Mad Hatter's Tea Party where complete insanity provided the same credibility as truth. I never thought that I would live to actually see 1984 actualized in which lies are truth.

[EffieBlack]

33. Exactly

The media should have been covering him like a candidate and potential president instead of a shiny entertainment object. If they had, they would have exposed him as a corrupt, dangerous phony long before he managed to get a foothold in ignorant people's imaginations.

They also would have not been complicit in creating the "Hillary is crooked, Trump is a straight-shooter" narrative.

One example - the press consistently - and still does - characterize Trump as a "billionaire," a very important defining description but one based solely on his own representation and which has been effectively proven false. That would be like Hillary calling herself a "war hero" and the press just accepting it and consistently referring to her as "War hero Hillary Clinton."

They're doing a better job now, but it's a day late and a few million dollars short. They were complicit in creating a monster and we're all have to deal with it now.

[llmart]

43. Nothing to do with trump but...

I know a very educated woman who once said to me that George W. Bush was a fighter pilot in Viet Nam. I think there was a newspaper headline that read something like "George W. Bush was a fighter pilot during the Viet Nam era" and in her mind that transferred into the story line that he was actually there. I am not exaggerating when I say in most everything, this woman is highly intelligent.

Hell, W. didn't even fulfill his National Guard obligations.

[NewJeffCT]

50. The press failed because, while the huge number of Trump scandals were out there and reported upon,

the 150-200+ Trump scandals were almost all given equal, or lesser, footing to the Hillary Email/DNC email and the Clinton Foundation "Scandals" that were basically just made up BS.

150 or 200 = 2 in the eyes of the media.

Just like that Jack Abramoff scandal from years back - dozens of Republicans took shady money from him, and one Democrat, so it was a bipartisan scandal to the media.

Every single one of those 150-200 or so Trump scandals - from near daily outrageous statements, the Trump Foundation, stiffing small businesses and contractors, not releasing his tax returns, multiple bankruptcies, Access Hollywood, the blizzard of lies, insulting the gold star parents, ties to organized crime, ties to Russia, bailed out by Russians and Saudis, promoting MAGA while making his own products in Mexico and China, sexism, racism, etc would have finished ANY other presidential candidate, Democrat or Republican.

However, when Trump had a new scandal, it dominated the news for 24-36 hours before being overwhelmed by yet another new scandal, outrageous tweet or controversial statement at a rally from Trump and yesterday's scandal was mostly forgotten about.

Independents and sane Republicans eyes glossed over at the mountain of Trump scandals. It was so much easier to just focus on her emails/DNC emails as the amount of coverage made it seem like it was THE BIG SCANDAL since none of the Trump scandals had similar staying power with the media.

[calimary]

25. I have a longtime friend like that.

“I just don’t trust her...” and “she’s a liar.” So what then? You voted for the most colossal and utterly shameless pathological liar on the planet? You must be so proud...

[mcar]

3. Hillary ran a great campaign

The the people on the left side of the spectrum who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election fell for Russian psyops and cyberwarfare?

What bothers me is that they still won't admit they were fooled and they continue to insist HRC was a terrible candidate, the election was rigged, and other nonsense.

Me, I freely admit I was an idiot to donate to Stein's "recount" efforts. It was only $10 but I still feel stupid, recognize my mistake, and know I will never do something that stupid again.

See how easy it is?

[boston bean]

4. Yep. Out of a complete sense of despair I also donated.

Stupid ME!!

[mcar]

5. We can acknowledge our mistake, BB

Wonder why so many on the left cannot?

[calimary]

29. Nobody wants to admit they were wrong.

Much less than that they’ve been HAD. At the end of a fork.

And “what could go wrong?” muses Andrea Mitchell on TV just now. Well, how ‘bout YOU, ANDREA MITCHELL, swallowing 100-million different “but her emails!” pills for the entire length of the last campaign????? She’ll never admit it either. Takes a pretty gutsy and painfully honest person to admit something like this.

[llmart]

44. I can't stand her.

[pazzyanne]

7. I'm sad when I say I did the same.

Guess this old dog can learn new tricks! Never again. Resist. Persist. GOTV.

[jayschool2013]

30. I voted for John Anderson in 1980

Mea culpa

[MyOwnPeace]

60. So did I!

His best quote:

"Jimmie Carter or Ronald Reagan?
That's not a choice, it's a dilemma!"

[snort]

31. That wasn't idiocy

that was panic.

[mcar]

51. Yes, panic and despair

But it was a mistake and I own up to it. Sad that so many 3rd party voters won't own up to their mistakes but keep doubling down.

[vlyons]

6. The other alternative about them

Is that they are just simply stupid. Stupid stupid people, who thought they were doing the right thing, but failed to consider the long-term consequences of their gullible stupidity.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. The Electoral College was stolen. Hillary won the Popular Vote, by decisive Three Million votes. .nt

[Farmer-Rick]

16. Yup, she won

I don't for a minute buy the lie that the Russian hackers went into all those state voting systems and didn't change anything at all. As if they played with our voting systems just for fun. Because when people cheat, they cheat to allow for a fair and legal result. Right?

[calimary]

34. Yes. She WON.

I was a very proud and resolute supporter of hers. I still am. I have never waivered. We would NOT be here, in this big a mess, now, if she hadn’t been cheated out of what she rightfully - AND LEGITIMATELY - won.

[louis c]

9. Another reason they blame Hillary is...

...that they are in denial. They know they fucked up and don't want to admit it.

Hillary received about 48% of the vote and Trump about 46%. The other 5 or 6 percent, not counting the "stay at homes", swung this election.

[joshcryer]

15. Oh yes, denial is the operative word here.

[Perseus]

11. I think its deeper than that, Hillary won the majority vote by a record number

Which brings us to "hacking" by the Russians.

I feel that the voting machines were hacked in those states where the "Electoral Vote" made the difference.

1. The number by which the man-child won was very small (like his hands)
2. Again, the popular vote was against him but in those key states.

Did the Russians hack the voting machines? I believe they did and they knew, thanks to his helpers in the USA, how many votes they needed to hack in order to make it look fine.

I dream with the findings coming to the conclusion that the man-child's rise to the presidency is illegitimate, as well as from those republicans in the Congress and Senate, who I feel will be exposed by the investigation, and that Hillary must be placed as President, and last but not least, all the destruction in the EPA, Education, etc. must be reversed because they were done by an illegitimate administration. That is first my daily dream...my second daily dream is that I stop dreaming about the same thing every day...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

13. Record number?

Obama won by 10 million. What record does 3 million break?

[oberliner]

23. Biggest popular vote victory without winning the Electoral College

[CanSocDem]

12. In my humble opinion...

...and since I have no vote and am technically irrelevant to this discussion you may want to stop reading right now. Proceed at your own risk, as they say.

All of these OP's blaming this and blaming that are seriously counter-productive. It isn't the Democratic Party that is threatened, it's the fundamental tenets of democracy, that affect a vastly larger constituency than your specious establishment player. Consequently you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss those who think Hillary wasn't the answer.

There was a global move to democracy starting with the "Arab Spring", and many other populist movements throughout Europe. It even got, surprisingly, to the USA in the Occupy Wall Street campaign. There was a lot of energy to change in the air, that almost everyone felt. The American voter, typically low information, just wanted change and the choice they were given produced what you have now and why those of us in non-voting neighboring countries feel threatened.

.

[Farmer-Rick]

32. Possibly, except for the obvious Rusian involvement.

Putin, like the devil, doesn't pay well. He wouldn't have been throwing all that money to traitor Trump through the NRA, just because he liked the way Trump peed. Putin was in it to win.

He hacked the majority of the state's voting systems. If you look at the vote, the number that went down was voter participation. Now, if you were to hack a voting system.....and we know Putin's hackers were looking at voter rolls.....and removed the names of voters who were registered Dems, then when they showed up to vote, they would be given a placebo ballot. In some states, you don't even know you're getting a ballot that won't be counted because you are not on the rolls.

Now combine that with a disinformation campaign to discourage voters to fight for their rights to vote, then you have a rigged system that gurantees an idiot a win.

What the Democratic leadership should do is encourage people to check you are registered and to put up a fight to vote. Obama made sure there was a number to call if you thought you had been cheated out of a vote. He let everyone know there were lawyers standing by to help you fight for your rights. If you felt intimidated or pressured not to vote, Obama had a group you could call to confirm info and to help you fight back with the truth. I heard nothing about this when Hillary ran.

Around here, they moved our voting precinct and the stupid person at the voting booth couldn't find my name.....until I raised my voice and made her look again and again. I use to know everyone at the old precinct. These new people were all very short and abrupt. It was planned that way to keep the numbers voting down.

[Whiskeytide]

62. Placebo ballots?

I’ve never heard of this practice.

In some states, you don't even know you're getting a ballot that won't be counted because you are not on the rolls.

Can you provide a source for this?

[Farmer-Rick]

63. I'm on my tablet and can't attach links but

Greg Palast has several articles on placebo or provisional ballots. There were some precincts giving out provisional ballots to all citizens identified as independent. Usually it is used if you show up demanding to vote when you are Not on the registration rolls, and you are someone the poll workers do not want to piss off. These ballots in almost all states are only counted if there is a tie, which is never.

[Whiskeytide]

64. Thanks. n/t

[lamsmy]

17. 2 kinds of voters

People tend to make decisions in one of two ways. The Romantics go with their heart and gut instinct. What FEELS good drives their choices.

The Enlightened relying on a clinical scientific means of weighing up the evidence and then determine the most reasonable conclusion and course of action.

Most people use a combination of both systems, and we are all susceptible to Romantic leanings, but generally speaking the more education one has, the more that person will rely on Enlightened decision making processes.

Romantics and Enlightened can be found at both ends of the political spectrum. But the extremes of both Right and Left are definitely Romantics voting on instinct not logic.

Good politicians can appeal to both the Romantic with inspiring rhetoric and the Enlightened with facts and concise plans. Obama was especially good at this. Clinton sucked. She just assumed the facts and logic would win the day and utterly failed to stand and deliver emotion. Trump was the exact opposite. His campaign was completely devoid of any serious planning or proposals, yet a huge number of voters didn't care.

This is now America's biggest problem. Big money politics, partisan warfare, propaganda masquerading as news, and a population uneducated in basic civics and government, have all led to a nation that is close to incapable of sound reasoning.

This isn't just about winning the next election. America must reevaluate it's current position and policies. If the rot is to stop, then there will have to be serious changes made across the board.

[Mc Mike]

21. It wasn't just the Russians, it was also far-rightwing old hands in our intel

who committed psy warfare against us, to get that nazi D Rump into power.

[KPN]

24. You do know that Hillary actually won the popular vote by a significant margin, right?

You do know that the vast majority of registered Democrats as well as supporters of Sanders also voted for Hillary in the GE, right?

I'm not sure this post is at all helpful to our cause. It sort of strikes me as you are either with us or against us "people on the left side of the spectrum". Why even say or imply that? Why accuse people here of falling for and being fooled, i.e., being fools?! Do you really think that will convince anyone in and of itself? How about sticking to what our message should be rather than brow-beating imaginary foes here at DU?

[Bluepinky]

48. I agree with you.

Posts like this seem really divisive, and they continue to be posted regularly. I try to just ignore them, but I wanted to support your response.

There are likely very few people on DU who didn’t vote for Hillary in the general election; of these few people, if they haven’t acknowledged their mistake by now, they never will.

Let’s stick together and target the real villains instead of assisting the Russian campaign in their ongoing attempts to promote discord and infighting. Don’t forget Hillary’s campaign slogan “Stronger Together”.

[KPN]

59. Exactly. Thanks for your support. Keep your voice

here.

[shanny]

26. Ridiculous broad brush. Trashing.

[Timmygoat]

35. OK now I know the rules

If you are a 1 year old in a diaper, entering the US with your mother asking for asylum, you are taken and locked in a cage.
If you are a russian hijacking the US voting system, you are applauded by Trump. Is that right?

[calimary]

45. Why? It's the freakin' TRUTH.

[progressoid]

53. Actually, it's just conjecture.

[Flaleftist]

58. If you voted in the general and not for Hillary, you are a piece is shit

and are just as responsible for our situation as a Trump voter.

[HopeAgain]

36. "No one should be blaming Hillary for anything"

It is sad when people refuse to take a full inventory of what happened in 2016. Hillary is to blame, Russia is to blame, the DNC is to blame, the far left is to blame, the third-way Democrats are to blame, gerrymandering is to blame, voter suppression is to blame, the Republican complicity is to blame.

Nothing is off limits in trying to figure out to do it better. Let's face it, 2016 was a complete clusterfuck and to turn a blind eye to any of it is a mistake

[NCTraveler]

37. The people you are referencing are our political enemies.

Not a group to pander to. Some still don't seem to understand that.

[Cosmocat]

38. I didnt didn't then and don't mow

Democrat, conservative, would be independent, it doesn't matter.

I flat-out State they were as wrong about her as they were about Trump inverse.

And just say straight up she's a decent, competent, highly effective public servant.

But, people want to believe what they want to believe.

[dalton99a]

39. A vote against Hillary was a vote for the traitor

Plain and simple.

[calimary]

46. Period.

[nolabels]

41. I think many people do know but are too proud to admit it

Me not so much. If we were really going to have a debate about it though, personalities should be set aside. The crap is actively going on now and because of bitterness and pride, it's not possible to get out of first gear. A great quote from a movie I watched last night,

"It's not your past experiences that define who you are but what you are doing now is what you are". They should have added the word
'actually'. I suspect it was from a translation so sometimes present tense is absent.

Everyway possible the act of voting has been undermined but I suspect it's getting it's boots on now, thanks for the post.

[woundedkarma]

42. Half the posts on this website are still falling for it. n/t

[philly_bob]

47. Using the tragedy of Trumpism to magnify factional differences between us...

happens too often on DU.

We have learned nothing.

Please, work toward inclusion, not exclusion.

[NewJeffCT]

49. Not every anti-Clinton Democrat

fell victim to Russian psy-ops.

Some didn't like her because of the campaign against Obama in 2008 or because she voted for the Iraq War authorization when she was in the Senate. Or, maybe they genuinely felt Sanders was treated unfairly by the DNC.

Of course, Russian psy-ops helped to amplify a lot of that, but I know plenty of Democrats that haven't liked her since that Iraq War vote or because of how her husband was more of a centrist/center-left politician.

[Merlot]

54. Thank you.

There was a lot not to like about her policies and campaign.

Some of us were able to not like the candidate and still vote Democratic because democracy is bigger than any one candidate.

[Hoyt]

52. +1000. And we have to respond to these attempts immediately, because more countries are going

to try this. And there are plenty of domestic swift-boaters too.

[kcr]

61. There is no getting through to them

They're as bad as Trumpers. I think many of them are people who are conspiracy-oriented in their thinking, and that's not a partisan quirk. You can't reason with people like that.