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Power 2 the People

(2,437 posts)
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 10:41 PM Jul 2018

How about a Biden-Obama ticket? It can be done

The 22nd Amendment states:No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of President more than once.

We always hear that Biden is too old. If God forbid Joe doesn't make it through a first or second term Barack can legally take over. Obama just can't run for President.

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How about a Biden-Obama ticket? It can be done (Original Post) Power 2 the People Jul 2018 OP
I.AM.SO.DOWN.WITH.THIS! Glamrock Jul 2018 #1
I am so for it for so many reasons, but it won't happen still_one Jul 2018 #2
What a hoot. sheshe2 Jul 2018 #32
That's interesting. I hadn't read the second part of that amendment before. CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2018 #3
The VP must be eligible to take the office of President. forgotmylogin Jul 2018 #36
Yup, the VP must qualify as President... BUT, there's another Obama who's available... InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2018 #37
Legally I believe it is fine, I just don't think President Obama would do it still_one Jul 2018 #38
Love it! nt Quixote1818 Jul 2018 #4
How about we win both Chambers of Congress in Nov ? n/t jaysunb Jul 2018 #5
IKR? EffieBlack Jul 2018 #8
thank you CatWoman Jul 2018 #10
Pretty sure you have to be constitutionally eligible for the Presidency to be VP. MrsCoffee Jul 2018 #6
Exactly... regnaD kciN Jul 2018 #24
Love them both but how about someone NEW Freddie Jul 2018 #7
Post removed Post removed Jul 2018 #9
Hmm BannonsLiver Jul 2018 #30
Ironically this is what Putin did to get around the prohibition to follow yourself. grantcart Jul 2018 #11
Doubt this loophole would pass Supreme Court manor321 Jul 2018 #12
Check out the 12th amendment. Nt Crabby Appleton Jul 2018 #13
I don't think anyone can run for Veep who isn't eligible to be president dawg day Jul 2018 #14
Been discussed: elleng Jul 2018 #15
Yes. I agree with the logic in the article. Power 2 the People Jul 2018 #19
But LBJ hadn't served as President before... regnaD kciN Jul 2018 #22
It depends on the interpretation of the Amendment Power 2 the People Jul 2018 #25
Obama would never do it JI7 Jul 2018 #16
Michelle would not allow it n/t left-of-center2012 Jul 2018 #17
Midterms first, please........ Heartstrings Jul 2018 #18
"Nothing can bring back the hour...Of splendour in the grass" Wordsworth nt Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #20
Barack is very loyal to Biden. Power 2 the People Jul 2018 #21
With all due respect, this is basically just fan fiction for Democrats. bullwinkle428 Jul 2018 #23
How about an Obama/Biden ticket? Cracklin Charlie Jul 2018 #26
Nice! workinclasszero Jul 2018 #29
Can't happen, but madamesilverspurs Jul 2018 #27
I cringe at posts like this BannonsLiver Jul 2018 #28
No, it can't be done jberryhill Jul 2018 #31
Our laws have their fair share of loopholes, but none that big. SomethingNew Jul 2018 #35
Hillary and Michelle braddy Jul 2018 #33
Sigh. This has been suggested more than once. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2018 #34
No, it can't shanny Jul 2018 #39
I was half of the lengthy debate in this thread previously: Totally Tunsie Jul 2018 #40
I think it's dumb. Scruffy1 Jul 2018 #41
Why would PBO put himself through that again? He had enemies on the left & right. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2018 #42
No. As much as I love Obama, he deserves to keep his life. Vinca Jul 2018 #43
Michelle's not having it. Let it go. lindysalsagal Jul 2018 #44
Nostalgia is for losers. Orsino Jul 2018 #45
why would Obama do this? I don't hink he would want to put his family through this again. DrDan Jul 2018 #46
Why the Constitution permits a Gore-Clinton ticket - August 1, 2000 sl8 Jul 2018 #47
"The Twice and Future President Revisited: Of Three-Term Presidents and Constitutional End Runs" sl8 Jul 2018 #48
K&R Gothmog Jul 2018 #49

sheshe2

(84,529 posts)
32. What a hoot.
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:55 PM
Jul 2018

Heads would spin and I would LMFAO if Obama got a third term.

Yeah, I know, will never happen. However a girl can dream.

CaliforniaPeggy

(150,318 posts)
3. That's interesting. I hadn't read the second part of that amendment before.
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 10:46 PM
Jul 2018

I'm not sure it says what you think it does, but I'm open to hearing statements that would prove it.

IF it's true, then I would have no problem agreeing with you.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,150 posts)
37. Yup, the VP must qualify as President... BUT, there's another Obama who's available...
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 01:08 AM
Jul 2018

why not Michelle?

regnaD kciN

(26,067 posts)
24. Exactly...
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:37 PM
Jul 2018

As much as we might like to see it, this scenario can’t happen. If that ticket ran, and was victorious, Biden's election would be certified, but he'd have to have another V.P., who would be chosen by the incoming Senate (and who, thus, might be a Republican).

Joe and Michelle, of course, wouldn’t have any such problem...

Freddie

(9,328 posts)
7. Love them both but how about someone NEW
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 10:55 PM
Jul 2018

And (relatively) young please. Dems tend to win with a younger candidate such as JFK, PBO, Bill Clinton in 92. Our opposition will be 74 by then.

Response to Power 2 the People (Original post)

BannonsLiver

(16,686 posts)
30. Hmm
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:50 PM
Jul 2018

I’d need to know more about how Biden actually treats women to make such a sure determination. one congressional hearing 30 years ago just doesn’t quite get me there. What’s he like in private? How does he treat his wife, and other women in his life. Silly stuff like that.

 

manor321

(3,344 posts)
12. Doubt this loophole would pass Supreme Court
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:05 PM
Jul 2018

I think the Supreme Court would not allow this, in light of the 12th amendment:

"But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States"

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
14. I don't think anyone can run for Veep who isn't eligible to be president
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:08 PM
Jul 2018

And Obama, along with Bush the younger (not the elder) and Bill Clinton, are all ineligible to be president as they have completed two terms as president.

Biden can indeed run for president. Nixon and Bush the elder both became president after serving two terms as VEEP.

But much as I would like to see Mr. Obama back in the People's House, well, we might have to have him there as First Gentleman. Or First Dad.

Power 2 the People

(2,437 posts)
19. Yes. I agree with the logic in the article.
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:16 PM
Jul 2018
The rough outline of his argument is this: The 22nd Amendment doesn't say you can't be president for more than two terms. It says you can't be elected president twice. If a Biden-Obama ticket won (which we'll get to), and tragedy were to befall Joe Biden, Barack Obama could become president, according to the letter of the law (which we'll also get to), since he wasn't elected to the position. As such, Obama is not constitutionally ineligible to serve as president.

After Kennedy was assassinated Johnson was eligible to run in 1964 and 1968. He would have been president for 9 years.

regnaD kciN

(26,067 posts)
22. But LBJ hadn't served as President before...
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:33 PM
Jul 2018

...that passage of the Amendment only applies to cases such as LBJ/JFK. If you assume the office on the death of your predecessor, a V.P. can run twice on your own, UNLESS you have served more than half of your predecessor's term, in which case, you can only serve once.

However, to have your election as V.P. certified, you have to be eligible to serve as president in the event your running mate dies or becomes disabled. And, having served two terms as president already, Obama would NOT be eligible.

Power 2 the People

(2,437 posts)
25. It depends on the interpretation of the Amendment
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:41 PM
Jul 2018

From WP article:

"I interpret the Powell case to mean that when the Constitution refers to 'qualifications,' or whether someone is 'qualified' for an office, that's a kind of term of art," Dorf said. "When we learn that the vice president has to have the qualifications for the office of the presidency, that is also a term of art. We look to the part of the Constitution that tells us what it takes to be qualified to be president, and not having served two prior terms is not among them."

"The 22nd Amendment, to my mind, is a sort of stand-alone provision," he continued. And that provision says "elected." "The drafters of this language knew the difference between getting elected to an office and holding an office. They could have just said 'no person may hold the office of president more than twice.' But they didn't."

Power 2 the People

(2,437 posts)
21. Barack is very loyal to Biden.
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:20 PM
Jul 2018

He knew Biden gave up his presidential ambitions to help him. I think he would consider returning the favor to stick it to Trump.

madamesilverspurs

(15,835 posts)
27. Can't happen, but
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:44 PM
Jul 2018

let's suggest it, anyway. Then stand back and watch the aneurysms happen on the other side of the aisle.


BannonsLiver

(16,686 posts)
28. I cringe at posts like this
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:48 PM
Jul 2018

They bring the Biden haters here out of the woodwork. We’ve got one poster here calling Biden an asshole, and yet it’s somehow allowed.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
31. No, it can't be done
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 11:55 PM
Jul 2018

12th Amendment

“But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”

You are simply incorrect.

SomethingNew

(279 posts)
35. Our laws have their fair share of loopholes, but none that big.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 12:50 AM
Jul 2018

Get around the pesky two term thing by just getting elected VP and having the president step down immediately. That would be even slicker than the whole Putin/Medvedev trick.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,998 posts)
34. Sigh. This has been suggested more than once.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 12:49 AM
Jul 2018

Sometimes with Bill Clinton as the VP candidate.

But please reread the part that says no one can be a VP who cannot Constitutionally become President.

Plus, while Obama is a lot younger than lots of proposed candidates, Biden is TOO FUCKING OLD. He is already 75. I'm a sure he is a nice person and a truly wonderful human being, but please, it's long past time to look to the younger generations.

 

shanny

(6,709 posts)
39. No, it can't
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 02:08 AM
Jul 2018

and no, bad idea.

12th Amendment (ratified in 1804 to fix some unexpected issues with the originally specified methods for selecting the President and Vice-President) states that “no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”

also too: we need to look forward, not back

Totally Tunsie

(10,885 posts)
40. I was half of the lengthy debate in this thread previously:
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 02:51 AM
Jul 2018

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016211214|

and still contend that Obama is ineligible to be VP because he has already served two terms as President and would be unable to assume another's presidency for more than two years (730 days). There is a 10 year maximum that one can serve as president. My debater refused to accept that regulation.

A 10-year presidency can be served only if one ascends to the presidency with less than 2 years to serve and then is elected to two terms of presidency thereafter. It does not work in the reverse.

I could have used all you like thinkers back when originally discussing this!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,293 posts)
42. Why would PBO put himself through that again? He had enemies on the left & right.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:23 AM
Jul 2018

Some "allies" even called for him to be primaried in 2012. And let's not even talk about how "we" let him down in the 2010 & 2014 midterms. There's no way in hell he'd go through all that again.

Vinca

(50,409 posts)
43. No. As much as I love Obama, he deserves to keep his life.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 06:30 AM
Jul 2018

In any case, we've got to cultivate a new generation. It's their time and we've got some very impressive people.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
45. Nostalgia is for losers.
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:21 AM
Jul 2018

These would undoubtedly be capable candidates, but we don't need to look backwards.

sl8

(14,680 posts)
47. Why the Constitution permits a Gore-Clinton ticket - August 1, 2000
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 08:53 AM
Jul 2018

From , http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/08/columns/fl.dorf.goreclinton.08.01/

Why the Constitution permits a Gore-Clinton ticket

August 2, 2000
By Michael C. Dorf
(vice dean and professor of law at Columbia University, where he teaches civil procedure and constitutional law. He is the co-author, with Laurence H. Tribe, of the book "On Reading the Constitution." Michael C. Dorf is also a FindLaw contributor.)

...
Prognostication aside, the prospect of a Gore-Clinton ticket raises an interesting constitutional question: Can a man who has been president for eight years be elected and serve as vice-president?

Language of the 22nd Amendment
Tremulous Republicans and other naysayers will no doubt claim that the 22nd Amendment would bar a Clinton vice-presidency. This amendment, enacted after FDR was elected president for the fourth time, imposes a two-term limit on presidential candidates
...
But these naysayers would be wrong. The Constitution permits Clinton to be elected vice-president, and if necessary to ascend for a third time to the presidency as careful attention to the language of the 12th and 22nd Amendments shows.

The 12th Amendment would allow a Clinton vice-presidency. Its language only bars from the vice-presidency those persons who are "ineligible to the office" of President. Clinton is not ineligible to the office of president, however. He is only disqualified (by the 22nd Amendment) from being elected to that office.
...



More at link.

sl8

(14,680 posts)
48. "The Twice and Future President Revisited: Of Three-Term Presidents and Constitutional End Runs"
Tue Jul 31, 2018, 09:06 AM
Jul 2018

From Minnesota Law Review (pdf): http://www.minnesotalawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Peabody-2.pdf

The Twice and Future President Revisited: Of Three-Term Presidents and Constitutional End Runs

Bruce G. Peabody

...

Hillary Clinton and Jake Tapper’s respective conclusions
that neither Bill Clinton nor Barack Obama were
constitutionally permitted to serve again in the office of the
President is shared by many pundits and scholars.6
The primary legal basis for this judgment is found in the U.S.
Constitution’s Twenty-Second Amendment, which stipulates
that “[n]o person shall be elected to the office of the President
more than twice.”7

But this position is not obviously correct. In 1999, when
President Bill Clinton’s second term was drawing to a close, the
Minnesota Law Review published “The Twice and Future
President: Constitutional Interstices and the Twenty-Second
Amendment.”8

In that article, I anticipated the possibility of twice-elected
Presidents serving as Vice President or filling
other roles that might allow them to serve again in the office of
President.9 I concluded that these scenarios were neither
constitutionally prohibited nor politically fanciful.

...

In the case of President Obama, these issues are arguably
even more pertinent since he is fifteen years younger than Bill
Clinton while remaining popular in his party. Although
President Obama has said he wouldn’t run for a third term
even if he could,12 questions about his continuing public service
and potential role in subsequent administrations will surely
surface in the years ahead.13

...



More at link.
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