General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow is it I never knew Tad Devine was a cohort of Paul Manafort?
Im a pretty avid news junkie
Me.
(35,454 posts)Tad Devine coined the phrase "Lock Her up" for use in The Ukraine against Yulia Tymoshenko while working with Manafort to elect a pro Putin candidate.
He also came up with "Make The Ukraine Work Again" which was just so close to being a great, big league slogan.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1139&pid=12542
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)You're making this up or parroting it for nefarious reasons. You're looking to use innuendo to divide Democrats.
Please provide a copy of one of his Ukranian commercials or speeches with the "Lock her Up" phrase in it.
Me.
(35,454 posts)and making false accusations. The truth is out there so go look for it yourself.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)There is nothing on Google backing up your claims but there is plenty out there from reputable sources as to where that stupid chant came from and when it started.
You posted it for one reason, to somehow verify your misguided hatred of Sanders via Devine.
Posts like yours divide us rather than unite us.
Me.
(35,454 posts)and you need to stop making false accusations as you don't know what you're talking about. And I have to wonder why.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)I am dealing in facts. You are dealing in innuendo. None of us are proud that Democratic top advisers from the Clinton,Obama and Sanders campaigns worked in the Ukraine. Politics is a racket. That's not news.
[link:https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2014/02/21/ukraines-long-history-with-us-political-consultants-and-lobbyists|]
[link:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hillary-clinton-michael-stoker-epa-lock-her-up-chant-a8362566.html|]
[link:https://newrepublic.com/minutes/135349/took-10-minutes-first-lock-up-chant-start-rnc|]
[link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/22/a-brief-history-of-the-lock-her-up-chant-as-it-looks-like-trump-might-not-even-try/?utm_term=.ea30d6c571ee|]
Me.
(35,454 posts)that's up to you...sad... but there you have it.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Talk about dealing in innuendo. One of the politicians, YANUKOVYCH, the one supported by Bernie advisor Tad Devine and Paul Manafort, is an ally of Putin.
The other, YUSCHENKO, who had two advisors connected to Bill Clinton (Mark Penn and pollster Greenburg), worked for a politician who OPPOSED the Putin-ally and got poisoned by Putin's people.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Trickery on the level of the GOP.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)campaign of Yanukovych, and that not only did that campaign use the "lock her up" slogan against his female opponent Yulia Tymoshenko, but in Ukraine Yanukovych was actually able to imprison his "Hillary" after he was elected.
Let's make a couple things perfectly clear
1. Neither Obama nor Hillary had anyone in their campaigns who worked for that Ukrainian criminal/ally of Putin on this filthy campaign.
2. Sanders did. This created a highly questionable connection between his campaign and Manafort, who has very close links to the Kremlin, and between the Sanders and Trump campaigns, both of which were assisted by Russia's interference in our elections.
The NYT and Washington Post, to name just two top investigative sources, are reporting on the tactics Yanukovych's campaign used, you know. Most focus is on Manafort, but Tad Devine was working on that campaign also. The NYT published an email from Devine to the campaign suggesting he be paid $10,000 a day.
You could have easily found this and more information published recently in the U.S.. Plus, of course far more details on the dirty campaign tactics are available from reports closer in time and space to that election. Please post any you find that separate the two men. Perhaps Devine protested Manafort's tactics in meetings and was overruled, for instance. Perhaps he quit in protest and returned to the U.S., leaving the others to promote imprisoning an innocent woman for the crime of running for office.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/russia-taught-paul-manafort-all-his-dirty-tricks/2017/10/30/95887e82-bdb7-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?utm_term=.5c1ae537ef87
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/01/us/politics/fara-foreign-agents-mueller.html
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)If Mueller thought hed be indicting Devine, hed have given him immunity to testify today.
The right is desperately trying to equate Trump and Manafort. Thats like trying to equate Lance Armstrong with the guy in your gym that takes creatine.
One is the mastermind who has damaged the whole enterprise, while the other is someone who has worked with some shady people but is far far far away from Paul Manafort.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And his admiration for Paul Manafort?
Bernie made a mistake hiring him.
we can do it
(12,184 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)When the pro-Russian clique in Ukraine yelled, LOCK HER UP in 2010, after Manafort helped Yanukovych win election, thats exactly what Ukraines new government did. Yanukovych put Yulia Tymoshenko his 2010 presidential opponent and a former prime minister in prison. And she spent three years imprisoned, until Yanukovych fled Ukraine and launched the country into a civil war that continues to cripple and divide the one-time Soviet republic to this very day.
I certainly do not appreciate false accusations from people who do not know what they are talking about. And the 10 mil Devine was paid by Sanders is also common knowledge.
Tad Devine, who also received a cut for deals brokered through Old Towne. Devines cut totaled at least $10 million by the end of May 2016, according to an investigative report by Slate
http://observer.com/2016/08/this-political-consultant-made-millions-off-of-sanders-campaign/
In an interview, Devine acknowledged that he has made more money than expected from the campaign, but he noted that he is working for a much lower rate than usual
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-is-biggest-spender-of-2016-so-far--generating-millions-for-consultants/2016/04/28/600170ce-0cf2-11e6-a6b6-2e6de3695b0e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.09a8100a8431
Devine was able to net himself roughly $10 million through his work on the campaign. For a campaign that prided itself as going to fight for the little guy, Devine, an establishment political consultant and friend of Bernie Sanders, seemed perfectly content to pocket millions of dollars.
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2017/3/22/manafort-and-friends-how-bernie-sanders-campaign-also-had-russian-connections
Hekate
(90,662 posts)Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)I am dealing in facts. You are dealing in innuendo. None of us are proud that Democratic top advisers from the Clinton,Obama and Sanders campaigns worked in the Ukraine. Politics is a racket. That's not news.
[link:https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2014/02/21/ukraines-long-history-with-us-political-consultants-and-lobbyists|]
[link:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hillary-clinton-michael-stoker-epa-lock-her-up-chant-a8362566.html|]
[link:https://newrepublic.com/minutes/135349/took-10-minutes-first-lock-up-chant-start-rnc|]
[link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/22/a-brief-history-of-the-lock-her-up-chant-as-it-looks-like-trump-might-not-even-try/?utm_term=.ea30d6c571ee|]
Me.
(35,454 posts)Deflection...
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Response to Power 2 the People (Reply #27)
Me. This message was self-deleted by its author.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Now I'm questioning some things. I won't be engaging any further with you.
Me.
(35,454 posts)bye bye
irisblue
(32,969 posts)You got a better one? Thanks
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Other than the fact that they're both Ukrainian and both have names starting with Y, no one should have trouble telling them apart.
Bill Clinton's pollster Stan Greenburg, and his advisor Mark Penn both worked with former Prime Minister Yuschenko, who was poisoned by Putin thugs and almost died.
Paul Manafort and Tad Devine, by contrast, worked for Yanukovych, a Putin-ally in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko
As an informal leader of the Ukrainian opposition coalition, he was one of the two main candidates in the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election. Yushchenko won the presidency through a repeat runoff election between him and Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych. The Ukrainian Supreme Court called for the runoff election to be repeated because of widespread electoral fraud in favor of Viktor Yanukovych in the original vote. Yushchenko won in the revote (52% to 44%). Public protests prompted by the electoral fraud played a major role in that presidential election and led to Ukraine's Orange Revolution.
Following an assassination attempt in late 2004 during his election campaign, Yushchenko was confirmed to have ingested hazardous amounts of TCDD, the most potent dioxin and a contaminant in Agent Orange. He suffered disfigurement as a result of the poisoning, but has since made a full physical recovery.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2014/02/21/ukraines-long-history-with-us-political-consultants-and-lobbyists
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29761799
It is the first time Mr Putin has given details of how he helped his ally escape.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/31/paul-manafort-trial-live-coverage/?utm_term=.8833ec3a4f05
That night, Devine and Manafort exchanged congratulatory notes, with Devine offering especially complimentary comments on Manaforts work. Devine said he told Manafort that he had brought tremendous discipline to Yanukovychs effort. He explained to the jury that campaigns often go awry when they go off message. But the Ukrainians campaign delivered the message with numbing repetition, thanks to Manafort.
George II
(67,782 posts)...Manafort and Devine (who were WELL paid for that) began the "lock her up" chant, your links only show when that chant began against Clinton in 2016.
Who are the Clinton and Obama campaign advisers who worked in the Ukraine?
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)I guess you didn't open any of the links I sent debunking your bull. Let me help you, Mark Penn and Stan Greenberg, both Clinton strategists both worked for Manafort and the Russians. David Axelrod's company did the same thing. Steve Schmidt is a Republican but he is virulently anti-Trump and he did too.
They were all WELL PAID.
Please read:
[link:https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2014/02/21/ukraines-long-history-with-us-political-consultants-and-lobbyists|]
George II
(67,782 posts)Mark Penn worked for the Clinton campaign(s) prior to working for the Ukraine (last worked in Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2008)
Same thing for Stan Greenberg. I don't see anything about either of them working for Manafort and the Russians.
As for Axelrod, he left AKPD in 2008 to work in Obama's administration - two years before his company worked in the Ukraine. BUT, big but..........AKPD worked on the campaign of Yulia Tymoshenko, Viktor Yanukovych's opponent, and SHE was the person who was the original target of the "Lock her up" chant!
Note that ALL of them worked for the Ukraine once their ties with Clinton and Obama were severed, and Axelrod was no longer affiliated with AKPD when they worked there.
Steve Schmidt never worked on any Democratic campaigns.
"...debunking your [my] bull"? I think not.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Penn and Devine worked on Yanukovych's campaign at the same time. It makes no material difference that one of them worked for Clinton 2 years prior to Ukraine and the other went on to work on the Sanders campaign 5 years later.
The erroneous innuendo is nothing more than a backhanded way to slam Bernie Sanders. Why aren't we questioning Jimmy Carter,Walter Mondale,Mike Dukakis,Al Gore and John Kerry? That would be ridiculous! Devine worked in high level positions in all of their campaigns.
This guilt by association tactic is not something we Democrats should be pushing. If Devine did something wrong,Mueller will pass his name on for investigation. If that does not happen then this nonsense has to stop.
Here is where the chant came from. [link:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hillary-clinton-michael-stoker-epa-lock-her-up-chant-a8362566.html|] A right wing jackass, inspired by Fox News and the "Hillary for Prison" bullshit started it. It's not as if a Madison Avenue high powered PR firm or political strategist would be needed to come up with such a simple
example of right wing classlessness.
It's time to stop the selective tarring of one of many democratic political consultants just because he has a tie to Bernie Sanders.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Tad Devine and Manafort worked for the Putin ally, Yanukovych.
Greenberg and Penn worked for his opponent, Yuschenko.
dsc
(52,160 posts)and the others didn't. The people who worked for Hitler's opponents in the 1930's participated in German elections in the 1930's but were heroes not evil.
George II
(67,782 posts)....they worked in the Ukraine (and some never did anyway) is Tad Devine. Also, I believe the only one who was closely affiliated with Manafort, who is currently on trial for a slew of money laundering and bank fraud charges, is Tad Devine.
I know where the Hillary Clinton "Lock her up" originated during HER campaign, but it was first used by a campaign back in 2010 by the campaign of the candidate for whom Manafort and Devine were working.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Yanukovych, the politician Tad Devine and Manafort worked for.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)So the media didn't real talk about it much. That's also is apparently why he is testifying without an immunity deal.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)So Devine was on the witness stand on day 1
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)sarah FAILIN
(2,857 posts)Devine was a witness for the prosecution.
I was unaware Devine was a Democrat. Does being a money grubber not sort of negate party issues?
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But that is probably just wishful thinking.
sarah FAILIN
(2,857 posts)Possibly wearing the team uniform, but they are on their own team imo. Finding out his "daily rate" sealed it for me.
EndGOPPropaganda
(1,117 posts)This is a key point.
Manafort is facing indictments in at least two and maybe three jurisdictions, which will send him to jail for centuries if convicted.
Devine is not worried about prosecution at all or he wouldnt have testified today without immunity.
This is like comparing the space shuttle to your kids toy. Like comparing a supercomputer to your 1982 calculator watch. These things are not comparable.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)Bernie Sanders.
yardwork
(61,599 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)Cha
(297,180 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,792 posts)tirebiter
(2,536 posts)Yanukovych hired him for his abilities not his politics. Same with Steve Schmidt. It was Manafort who advised putting down the protests violently. This does continue to be interesting.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)a little bit of perspective badly needed on the subject.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)And in 2004, his opponent was poisoned with Dioxin by Putin's people.
Some professionals would have drawn a line at working for someone like this.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)He was hired because he was hire-able for this sort of thing at the right price.
What does Steve Schmidt have to do with any this? He worked exclusively as a Republican party communications strategist throughout his career, expressed continued and consistent disgust with Trump and trumpism throughout 2015-2018, and withdrew from the Republican party in June over Trump's family separation policy. Something tells me that Schmidt is not for sale to the highest bidder.
UTUSN
(70,684 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)dogman
(6,073 posts)"Since the spring, Mueller has referred matters to SDNY involving longtime Democratic lobbyist Tony Podesta and his work for his former firm, the Podesta Group, and former Minnesota Republican Rep. Vin Weber and his work for Mercury Public Affairs, the sources said."
It is a deep swamp:
"One source said that former Obama White House counsel Greg Craig, a former partner at law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, is also part of the inquiry."
ornotna
(10,800 posts)It's plastered on the walls of gd on a daily basis.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Does it not bother you that Paul Manaforts business partner was close to being on the inner circle of the Democratic nominee? It has a bad smell. Im happy he got rich causing chaos.
ornotna
(10,800 posts)Chris Hayes: With regard to Manafort: "Tad Devine's gotta be sweating right now."
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10029788048
Wait! What? Tad Devine assisting Special Counsel Investigation in Manafort Case
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210929089
Report: Tad Devine Assisting Mueller in Investigation
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210929399
Why the Manafort/Gates prosecutions might drag Tad Devine in
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210262645
Tad Devine worked with Trump's pollster in the Ukraine.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210946901
Bernie Sanders' campaign strategist Tad Devine turns up 16 times in evidence against Paul Manafort
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10142114048
Tad Devine, Come On Down!!!
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210946469
Devine signed onto the Sanders campiagn while doing business with Gates and Manafort.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210929946
***TAD DEVINE 2014 emails are evidence in MANAFORT case. And Bernie hired Devine in 2014. ***
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210896094
Here's The Evidence Paul Manafort Doesn't Want A Jury To See About His Work In Ukraine
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10142120133
Autumn
(45,064 posts)looking to see if there were anything on his testimony about Manafort. I guess from the lack of posts about his testimony that Mueller did not arrest Devine and charge him and Bernie Sanders with treason???
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)Here's what WaPo had to say about the testimony yesterday.
The government has called its first witness: Tad Devine, the architect of Bernie Sanderss presidential campaign. Devine also worked closely with Paul Manafort as a political consultant in Ukraine, a striking demonstration of how U.S. political consultants from across the spectrum take their expertise overseas, where they earn big bucks advising foreign candidates.
He is likely to lay out exactly what Manafort was doing during his years in Ukraine.
Talking Points Memo has more extensive coverage of the testimony. While Devine helped paint a seedy picture of the operation, on cross examination he did testify that he "believed" it was Gates' role to take care of the paying taxes, and he did express his continued admiration for Manafort.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/tad-devine-first-witness-manafort-virginia-trial
Autumn
(45,064 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)After all, Devine did seem to advance the defense theory that it was Gates who was at fault and he also expressed admiration for the work of the defendant. I would imagine that Tad Devine will be seen through the prism of his former business association, at least for the near future. People might be reluctant to trust his judgment.
And the backlash has begun. According to a story two weeks ago in VF,
But Washington has always turned a blind eye to the sketchy side-hustles of its consulting class. Even if he had a crisis of conscience, Devines employment history had relatively little effect on his professional standing, allowing him to eventually earn more than $10 million working for Sanders, to the chagrin of the Democratic Socialists supporters.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/bernie-sanders-strategist-tad-devine-paul-manafort-files-mueller
Autumn
(45,064 posts)client he had.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)Autumn
(45,064 posts)I think Mueller would be all over him like he was Democratic lobbyist Tony Podesta. That started out as a a fact-finding mission about the ECMU and Manafort's role in the campaign, but is now a criminal inquiry into whether the firm violated the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
I have no problem if Mueller is investigating Devine and I think if he were it would have come out already, like Podesta's connections to Manafort did.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)However, they do not all matter equally. The entanglement of the relative of a presidential candidate's campaign official matters less than the entanglement of an actual campaign official.
After all, we don't choose our relatives, but we do choose the boundaries for what we will do in the pursuit of money or power.
And candidates do choose who to hire to manage their campaigns, so Trump's attempts to distance himself from Manafort are ridiculous at best. Manafort's work in Ukraine was a matter of public record when Trump brought him into the campaign.
Autumn
(45,064 posts)Maybe 10 million from Sanders was enough for a while and he hasn't taken on new clients overseas ? You think consultants and lobbing firms should only work with Liberals? They don't. What about firms and people like Carvell, Mark Penn AKPD and Benenson Strategy Group and others that Clinton and Obama used who are working in the Ukraine, and Afghanistan on elections?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/bernie-sanders-strategist-tad-devine-paul-manafort-files-mueller
In the late 2000s and early 2010s, high-powered political operatives who found themselves drawn to Tymoshenko and Yanukovych remunerative cage match included not only Manafort and Devine, but Democratic super-lobbyist Tony Podesta, Clinton strategist Mark Penn, and John McCains presidential campaign manager, Steve Schmidt, on the pro-Yanukovych side, and Paul Begala and David Axelrods firm, AKPD Message and Media, on Tymoshenkos. Nor did the trend stop after Yanukovych assumed power and began jailing his rivals: a Reuters article from 2013 reported that pro-Yanukovych groups had paid two of their Washington representatives $1.46 million, with $900,000 going to the Podesta Group. A lot of people are making a lot of money off Ukraines political competition, Bruce Jackson, president of the Project on Transitional Democracies, told Reuters at the time.
My opinion is all this shit overseas should be illegal but politicians will use whatever and whoever they can to get elected.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)shouldn't have.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because when he worked with Manafort, his clientele could not be called liberal, or a friend of the "working man."
Yanukovych was ousted in 2014 after he halted Ukraines movement toward the European Union, yet Devine offered to help Manaforts efforts in the 2014 Ukraine election for a price. We are ready to take on this project, he wrote to Manafort partner Rick Gates, for $100,000 per month (payable in advance), $25,000 per week of runoff, a $50,000 success fee and expenses including first-class airfare. In June 2014 even as talks about the Sanders presidential run were getting underway Devine went to Ukraine to help remnants of Yanukovychs party reforming under a new name. My rate for something like this would be $10,000/day, including travel days, he wrote to Gates.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-bernie-sanders-ad-man-who-played-paul-manaforts-game/2018/08/01/0df78c18-95c7-11e8-a679-b09212fb69c2_story.html?utm_term=.8bd95c3098ed
ornotna
(10,800 posts)That he was also a senior adviser in Al Gore's 2000 and John Kerry's 2004 Presidential campaigns? He was a political operative for hire, lots of different people hired him.
JI7
(89,248 posts)ornotna
(10,800 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)It's just like any other person being a decent human at their job for decades, then, let's say, one day they decide to steal corporate secrets to sell to another company for a profit. Does that make the other companies they worked at guilty of their future crimes, or does It somehow exonerate them because they didn't do it when they worked for those companies? Nope. Neither is true. That's not how things work.
This is the lamest argument in regards to Devine. He's shady, and he's tainted. That's a fact and any Democratic candidates who can't see that fact now would be fools. There are other non-tainted people out there to use who are equally, or actually more, qualified to lead an ethical campaign.
He worked to help Putin. That's a fact. He's tainted and sullied because of his work in the Ukraine. That's also a fact. I hope his career here in the US is over, but I expect there are still a few Republicans who might hire him even after all of this is becoming a daily discussion.
We, Democrats, however, need to wash our hands of him. He was involved in some very bad and unethical things for his own personal and extensive profit.
I don't understand defending Devine. I've thought he was a shady actor for several years now. I'm sorry he was tied to Bernie's campaign, Democrats don't need that added slam right now, but that doesn't make him less of a sleaze. He is who he is and has been since he sold out.
Me.
(35,454 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)but he won't.
He isn't one to turn loose of the small circle of advisors that he trusts.
Even if it comes back to bite him, like keeping Jeff Weaver involved in Our Revolution after promising those lower on the advisory ladder that Weaver would not be involved.
I think Sanders trusts his personal opinion over any outside of the circle facts, viewpoints and new data that come up.
The one exception being the polls during a re-election year in Vermont, of course, as we saw in 2006 with his comments following his DOMA vote.
ornotna
(10,800 posts)But according to the Washington Post it's "former Bernie Sanders adviser Tad Devine "
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10951247
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)People generally don't know about things that happen in the future, see?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Go ask them on JPR. Or ask some of them who have returned. They know why.
MaryMagdaline
(6,853 posts)JI7
(89,248 posts)establishment, status quo etc .
people were posting things from HA Goodman, Glenn Greenwald ...........
enid602
(8,615 posts)I think when Mueller finishes his little excercise, we'll find that people from both sides of the aisle will be found to have been involved. Lock them all up!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Let's be clear about that.
Russia's big enemies in America is the Democratic Party and our people in government, and Russi'a weapons of war are anything and anyone that can be used to hurt and weaken the Democratic Party.
Nothing has changed about that since 2016. This war against America continues now in this critical election year. No to hypocrisy about which groups are being used as weapons against the Democratic Party and why they were chosen.
But my enemy's friend are my friends.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)surrounded by bodyguards. Those who aren't ruthless strong men can have no friends in these situations and would be very wise to think of themselves as...tidbits.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)dembotoz
(16,802 posts)i work in a competitive industry.
long history of the giants fighting each other
employees toe the company line and say the company stuff
employees also get laid off and go to work for the other side....
are they morally inferior somehow to those who avoided the rif?
dsc
(52,160 posts)had he worked for her instead, it would have led every single, solitary, story about him the entire time.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Whoo boy! I miss that one.