Seditious Conspiracy

[kentuck]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

<snip>
18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, § 1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

[Maraya1969]

1. This is stealing the election and Russia's help in order to help them afterward

or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States

[2naSalit]

2. The term

"by force" could be a point of contention in a legal argument but I agree that this is pertinent.

[kentuck]

3. I agree.

How should we interpret "by force"? Would that be by military or police force only? Or could it be by political means?

[2naSalit]

5. Yeah, I've been contemplating that too

I think the argument could be made that since it was a computer based attack that nobody was able to stop, that might be a determining factor, not sure though.

[Johnyawl]

6. I think that since the attack on our election was aided...

..by the Russian Military Intelligence that it could be considered "by force".

[lagomorph777]

8. The Founders never anticipated non-kinetic military "force" could cause more damage than cannonballs

So I agree with you Johnny

[slumcamper]

7. Bundys at Malheur springs to mind

With chief sedition officer in power, aided and abetted by a spineless GOP-led Congress, the legal consequences of seditious conspiracy seem to be moot.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

4. Thought experiment...

How about threatening to “Shut down the government”?

Could be construed as conspiring to “put down” the government.

Could be “by force” if the person issuing the threat is the “most powerful person in the world”.

[ewagner]

9. hmmmm....I dunno....

lots of "weasel words" in there...

[kentuck]

10. I think everyone is trying to define what laws have been broken.

Some call it treason, but we are not in a declared war. In the law above, "by force" is used in every instance.

It does seem like some sort of betrayal or sedition but lawyers will probably settle for obstruction of justice and abuse of power?

[elmac]

11. personally, I think tRump jr will get charged with lying

to investigators. tRump himself may get charged with obstruction at the very least though we know he is guilty of more crimes.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. Violence, mobs, use of force or guns have to be involved

we're closer every day

[Beartracks]

13. Too bad Republicans think Sedition is just a governing style. n/t

[DemocracyMouse]

14. My fellow Democrats:

You are so brilliant on civil rights and terrible at physics! Electricity is a force. Forced entry into a server is an illegal use of force. To make illegal copies of keys, whether of a metallic or electronic/silicon variety, then use that to enter property on US soil is an invasion – ESPECIALLY if the co-conspirator is the military of an enemy nation.

20 years for each and every person connected with this conspiracy to work with the military establishment of one of our worst enemies for 60+ years to undermine the THE VERY CORE of our nation: free and fair elections.

In the Art of War, Sun Tzu points out that the best general achieves his/her objectives with the least expenditure of energy, thus preserving the nation's strength for future conflicts. Cyber Warfare IS warfare, and it's applied precisely for these reasons. 21st century warfare is being committed right now by all the major nations, including the US. The last thing any of those nations want is one of their own citizens conspiring with one of their enemies to make their attack even more efficient. This is 21st century aggression pure and simple.

And keep in mind that Trump is not just undermining the US, but also NATO, international protections against climate change and an anti-nuclear treaty with Iran. Trump is softening up the entire planet to benefit an enemy of the United States.