AOC hits back at the MSM

[SkyDancer]

AOC hits back at the MSM who claim the progressive movement failed to deliver any stunning wins this past Tuesday.

GO AOC! Give them hell!

[Wwcd]

1. Really AOC? "Heavily Financed Opponants"? Wait a minute...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210963845
Umm..Speaking of Heavily Financed.


Not sure what exactly she's generalizing about in her statement but...its a bit confusing because:

Dear Ms Cortez, All of those Democrats...those "opponants" you speak of also went door to door campaigning.
Not all of them won either. Some did. So..what's your point?


As far as MSM's statement as to "progressive stunning wins", I'd say the most stunning Democratic & Progressive win was Kansas, Sharice Davids.
She truly won thru hard work & against ALL ODDS.

Wouldn't you agree Ms Cortez!
Anxious to see you & your supporters return to campaign for Sharice Davids against the ACTUAL BiG BUCK$$$ Republican Candidate.

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. She's trying to rationalize her poor showing. "If you're explaining, you're losing". n/t

[Wwcd]

4. Why didn't she include the Stunning Win by Democrat Sharice Davids?

Davids is a Democrat & a superbly Progressive in her political beliefs & goals.
And she certainly won against all odds.

THAT is The Most Stunning campaign win of the night, by far.
Why wouldn't Ms Cortez name Sharice Davids also.
She certainly deserves the honor of mention.

How could she forget to say Sharice Davids name also?

Damn.

[JI7]

5. she didn't support her

[Wwcd]

7. She didn't support the Dem with the most Progressive platform?

Davids history actually sounds much like how Cortez defines her struggles.
Although Davids does hold more hands-on & in the trenches experiences, but I cannot believe Cortez turned her back on the one Kansas female candidate who clearly mirrors the similar struggles as she speaks of.

Davids checks every box that defines Progressive .
And she's a Dem, like Cortez.

A stunning, "against all odds", righteous win for Davids indeed!

Go figure..

[JI7]

8. actual record of getting things done doesn't count

it's all about who you support and what you claim to support.

[Wwcd]

10. Yup

Media matters most in that case.
Thanks

[SkyDancer]

9. What policies does Davids support

that make her a progressive instead of a standard Democrat?

[Wwcd]

12. Lol. "STANDARD DEMOCRAT"?

Geezus

You really should read the Democratic Platform.
At least if one is to adopt the Dem Label.

Here:

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[SkyDancer]

13. I know what the platform is

There are differences however, otherwise the progressive caucus wouldn't exist. Correct?

[Wwcd]

15. You seem a bit argumentative for me, I have to put you on ignore

Bye


Here's the Dem Platform.
Please do read ALL of it.
Thanks

https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[SkyDancer]

16. Asking a question is argumentative?

Ok.

[Wwcd]

20. Felt rather baiting, but maybe its just me..

Its not really my style..
Bye

[Cha]

21. Here's Sharice Davids and Gretchen Whitmer.. Nothing "standard"..

about them. That's just one of their buzzwords.. pay no attention to that.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Wwcd

[oasis]

49. +1 and a thanks Cha, for keeping it real at DU.

Facts are our best friend.

[Cha]

51. Sharice and Gretchen are High Standard! Catch

them if you can "progressives". lol

Yes, Facts are our Besties, oasis!

Aloha

[heaven05]

75. these and the following posts

after yours shut that one up for a minute..he/she ALWAYS runs from the truth. It's like scalding hot water poured on an open wound of hypocrisy.

[ismnotwasm]

41. There is a song stuck in my head

[Squinch]

24. What policies do you think defines a candidate as "Progressive" that are not in the

"standard Democratic" platform?

I ask that question a lot and "progressives" never seem to answer.

So far the results of my questioning it seems there is nothing that those who identify as progressive - and who seem to think the "standard" Democratic party is lacking - can identify that they support that the Democratic party doesn't.

I wonder if you can identify what the "standard" Democrats are lacking in terms of policy.

[dansolo]

29. Isn't it obvious? The difference is BS

Bernie Sanders, though the other definition of BS also fits.

[Squinch]

30. I keep asking the question and getting no answer, so I think you're right.

[GaryCnf]

35. I'll be glad to answer this

Because throwing up the Democratic Platform ad nauseam as proof of what constitutes the "Mainstream Democratic Party" is about as dishonest as a person can get. (Except to the extent that it shows "centrist Democrats" and "leftist Democrats" can get together in a room and come up with a document they will both sign, which, outside of here, really is what being a Democrat is all about). Centrist candidates' campaigns run away from the leftists provisions and leftist candidates' campaigns run away from the centrist provisions. It says nothing about what it means to be "establishment."

Before I go further I want to say something now. I am going to paste in Sharice Davids' policy positions from her website and they are long and I don't want this part of what I want to say to get lost because it is IMHO a million times more important than the incessant bullshit that goes on here. For reasons I will not state, because they actually are divisive, I will never support a centrist candidate in a primary. I did not support Sharice Davids in the primary. However, I started donating to her GE campaign through Bold PAC the morning after the primary. It is important for her to win not just because she is a Democrat but because she is symbolic of what I believe we should stand for as a party. Anyone who doesn't, now that the primary is over, needs to look seriously at why they do not.

That being said, I want to paste in her policy positions and repeat something I said earlier.

Sharice believes -
•The current Republican tax bill is a corporate giveaway and a handout to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans.
•Worst yet, the tax bill saddles our future generations with a crippling financial burden and further in debts our country to foreign nations, such as China.
•Small businesses are the lifeblood of America and need to be front of mind when creating economic policy.
•Modernizing our aging infrastructure is necessary to maintain our communities and our economies. It would create thousands of jobs and provide a foundation for decades of future growth.

Sharice plans to -
•Fight for a true tax cut for the middle class.
•Incentivize health care benefits for small businesses and create a small business standard deduction to lower administrative costs.
•Create a childcare tax credit to help working families across America.
•Support efforts to increase broadband access, which is key to economic success in the modern economy.

______________

Sharice believes -
•Every student should have access to quality public education, regardless of their zip code, ability, or special needs.
•Supporting early childhood education and afterschool programs benefits families and gives children more opportunities to succeed.
•The cost of obtaining a college degree has skyrocketed and so has the likelihood of crushing student loans. We should be implementing policies that encourage and facilitate the opportunity for higher education.
•Students should be exposed to careers in trades and technical areas - skills that are vitally important to a robust economy.

Sharice plans to -
•Implement a holistic approach to education, focusing on access to quality public options from pre-K through secondary higher education and promoting strong, skills-based training programs.
•Prioritize access to public education and facilitate ways for Congress to partner with and support states in implementing robust K-12 systems. Sharice will work to support opportunities to hone technical skills through apprenticeships and partnerships with community colleges and trade schools.
•Support Head Start programs and ensure they are operating effectively. Sharice understands the importance of afterschool and summer programs for educational success, particularly in households where adults are working long hours to support their families.
•Support policies that enable people to refinance student loans at lower rates and make it easier to renegotiate a loan’s terms.
•Support initiatives such as loan forgiveness programs for those entering public service.

__________________

Sharice believes -
•We must demand more than condolences from our lawmakers. We need swift legislation to enact common sense gun safety laws.
•We can not allow legislators who accept millions of dollars from the gun rights lobby to continue risking the safety of our children and communities in exchange for campaign contributions.
•Guns do have their place. As part of a military family, Sharice recognizes that firearms have a role in society. That place is not in schools, in hospitals, in mental health facilities, or in the homes of domestic abusers.

Sharice plans to -
•Support a holistic approach to reducing gun violence and deaths in our country.
•Treat gun violence as a public health issue, allowing us to study it and regulate it as such.
•Never accept any campaign contributions or endorsements from the gun lobby.
•Support expanded background checks and higher standards for conceal-and-carry permits.

All of these are good policies but you'd be hard pressed to find a single Democrat, not even Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp, who is to the right of Davids on any of the issues. Mind you, I think we should be proud of that fact BUT being no further left that Joe or Heidi is not being "progressive."

The reason we have a progressive wing and a centrist wing is because they disagree on policy. If folks want to have a debate on that outside of races where we have not already selected our candidate, that is fine, but to suggest that there is "something" that divides leftist and centrist Democrats OTHER than policy - as we see here - is a LIE, is going to destroy our party, and needs to stop.

[Squinch]

36. You say you'll answer the question, but you didn't do anything but restate

that "centrist Democrats" are not who you prefer. There is still, as far as I can see it, no policy position that distinguishes Sharice the centrist - and by the way, that's kind of a laugh - from your dream progressive.

You say she is no further on the left than Joe or Heidi on any of those issues. So what would you change about her positions on those issues that would make them acceptable to you? Because all you have said is that they are somehow not acceptable to you because they are not farther left than Joe and Heidi. So what needs to change?

You say they disagree on policy. But still no one has been able to say what policy and what the disagreement is.

You certainly didn't.

Also, those of us often branded as "centrist" have been saying for a long time now that there is little appreciable difference between the two sides. Somehow, as you argue that there is a policy difference between the two sides (though as yet no one has stated what that policy difference is), you are now saying that those centrists are the ones who divide. So tell me, how does that work?

[GaryCnf]

39. Well let's talk about that

I hope it won't be an issue using Sharice's policies as representative of the mainstream. I'll just talk about the first few for now.

•The current Republican tax bill is a corporate giveaway and a handout to the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans.
•Worst yet, the tax bill saddles our future generations with a crippling financial burden and further in debts our country to foreign nations, such as China.

For progressives, the national debt, and even foreign trade deficit, are non-issues. Progressives oppose low taxes on the .1% because the most important function of taxation is to redistribute wealth. For progressives, the "burden" of the national debt is not ass important as making sure that the .1% pay all of it. Progressives aren't ashamed to say they love government spending on the right things.

•Small businesses are the lifeblood of America and need to be front of mind when creating economic policy.

For Progressives WORKERS are the lifeblood of the American economy. Whether small business or large, it's the labor of its workers which drive the economy.

•Fight for a true tax cut for the middle class.
•Incentivize health care benefits for small businesses and create a small business standard deduction to lower administrative costs.

For Progressives, taxes are not an issue, low wages and/or low levels of government support are the issue. For progressives, talking about taxes is playing on the Republican's field.

Is that enough for you or should I go through the entire list?

[ismnotwasm]

40. With all respect

That is as simplistic an answer as copying and pasting the Democratic Party platform, which you seem to abhor.

In that spirit, let’s look at a very effective “progressive” Democrat. She for Medicare 4 all, Bernie endorsed, she rings every ‘progressive” bell there is, yet she is able to work in Congress with all the other Democrats like an adult.

She is my Representative, and I adore her. I’m now very much a centrist Democrat, although I’m not the one who moved the goal posts, and I’m a little surprised to find myself here. Just like during the Bush years I was a ‘radical” feminist. No matter, I am in very good company.

I’m not going to waste my time with copying and pasting any more than you are, but here is her webpage and platform.

https://jayapal.house.gov/issues

She sounds exactly like a Democrat.

[GaryCnf]

42. I enjoyed reading Pramila's policies

And there are nice mix of progressive and mainstream policies in there. Can I ask you though, do you think the policies vis a vis Palestine are what is called "mainstream Democrat?"

Congratulations on having a great Democrat representative. But I think it may be stretching to use the word "centrist" to describe her.

This goes back to what I began with which is that we have great Democrats who all deserve our support. That's why I went from Davids critic to enthusiastic Davids supporter overnight. But it doesn't mean there are no policy differences between even Pramila and Sharice.

[Squinch]

46. Then WHAT ARE THEY???? Policy differences, not philosophy differences. WHAT ARE THEY?

[GaryCnf]

73. This is sophistry

Recognizing the same general goals is not the same as having the same policies. For example, "We all agree poor people and workers should get a bigger piece of the pie" is not the same as saying "Centrists and Progressives both believe the minimum wage should be a living wage." Your "No leftist will tell me what policy differences exist between Centrists and Progressives" is a lie and remains so despite your refusal to admit it.

Here is a fact. You refuse to acknowledge the profound policy differences between Centrist and Progressives because you don't want to debate over policy. Debates over policy legitimize the other side, regardless of whether your viewpoint would prevail in such a debate. That's not the "Brockian way." No, you want to call leftists "misogynists" and "racists," declare moral superiority and move on.

Anywhere outside your little echo chamber, it's a joke that no one is laughing at.

[Squinch]

74. And still, you have named NO POLICY on which we differ. No matter what names you call me,

you have not answered the question, and I think you know it.

[Squinch]

76. And PS, WTF with the left field accusation that I have called leftists "mysogynists" and "racists?"

Nice attempt at completely bizarre deflection. Link to it or it didn't happen. Because it didn't.

[GaryCnf]

80. How many?

How about an all in one?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016157596#post7

[Squinch]

81. So noting sexism on DU when it was rampant constitutes accusing

Last edited Mon Aug 13, 2018, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)

progressives of sexism? Wake up and look at most of the people posting the rampant sexist threads that were the subject of that. Most are PPR now. They were trolls. Imagine how great it would have been if EVERYONE here had spoken against them.

And really? You have my posts back two years? You must really feel strongly about me.

[GaryCnf]

85. I took the two seconds

It required to search your name in that little box in the upper right hand corner.

[Squinch]

86. And found me talking about rampant sexism, and decided I was accusing

progressives of something. Do you deny that sexism exists? Do you deny that sexist have been emboldened since trump came on the scene?

Maybe in your world a+b=z, but not in most people's.

And you STILL haven't come up with a POLICY. But it is clear by now that you won't.

[GaryCnf]

87. Echo echo echo

Denial denial denial

It's not working.

[Squinch]

88. Lol! Name a policy!

[Squinch]

82. PS. You STILL haven't named a POLICY.

[ismnotwasm]

48. Oh I don't think she's a centrist at all

She’s the very definition of a progressive. That was my whole point, she is still a Democrat, works with Democrats etc.

I like single payer better than M4A, and I believe in incremental change through the system, and an few other issues, I get stuck with a centrist label. I’m fine with it.

So, I believe in a two state solution for Israel and Palestine personally, and I feel Hamas is a terrorist organization, period. (I get a little of my information from Israeli immigrants, who are co-workers) I never argue about that Israel/Palestine here.

Pramila just endorsed this person for New York Attorney General

“I’m so proud to endorse Zephyr Teachout for New York Attorney General. This position of Attorney General is one of the most important checks on a Trump administration that has been abusive to consumers and workers across this country,” she said.

“Zephyr Teachout is the only candidate who is not accepting corporate PAC or LLC money. She is one the nation’s leading anti-corruption experts and as Attorney General, she will make sure to protect voting rights and fight against voter suppression on every level. As Attorney General, I know she’s going to stand up for immigrants and be a strong progressive champion for Medicare for All and for taking on the for-profit companies that are driving healthcare costs up. Zephyr Teachout will never answer to anything but the rule of law, her conscience and the will of the people she represents.”

This actually annoyed me because it’s far more simplistic than I’ve come to expect from her, but it did interest me in the race, which normally I wouldn’t pay much attention too at this point. Not sure this is the best person in light of current politics

[Squinch]

43. None of this constitutes differences in policy.

Progressives oppose low taxes on the rich. The Democratic party opposes low taxes on the rich. Bully for the progressives that they aren't ashamed to spend government money on the right things. Point to ANY Democrat who has ever disagreed with that.

You use the statement about small business to manufacture a false choice and say progressives value workers. Do you think the Democratic party doesn't value workers? Did you notice which party is getting an increase in the minimum wage, which is proposing minimum incomes in a number of places across the country, which is fighting to save the safety net? Again, none of this points to a difference in POLICY.

And when Sharice supports helping small business, are you objecting to that? Do you think supporting small business is in opposition to helping workers? If so, how? Do you want us to make things harder for small businesses? If so, you are screwing a lot of those WORKERS that you say you care about.

Then, if your brand of progressive thinks taxes are a non issue, then your brand of progressive is insane. And frankly, I don't know of any progressive who would ever agree with you on that. Lower income people pay a higher percentage of taxes than any other segment of the society. If you truly do care about the WORKER, then you better learn about how the WORKER is screwed by our tax rates and begin to care about them.

So sorry, Gary, you still haven't shown where an actual progressive differs from the "standard" Democrat. You've given some semantics and some philosophy, but you haven't shown where there are any differences between the two in actual POLICY.

[lapucelle]

69. "Standard" Democrats Chuck and Nancy.

Charles Schumer is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.


Nancy Pelosi is a Hard-Core Liberal.

[Wwcd]

14. We're called Democrats. There is no "standard" Democrat

Here's the Dem Party Platform.

Have you read it?
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

[SkyDancer]

17. Again

What is the differences? Why does the Congressional Progressive Caucus exist then?

[Wwcd]

19. Is there a Socialist caucaus?

Just asking cuz I have no idea & nor do I know why suddenly the socialist label is being retooled & sold either.

Beats me!
Later..

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. Same type reason as why the DLC was created

or the Blue Dog Caucus. To attempt to influence the direction of the Democratic Party from within. Pretty standard stuff.

[heaven05]

77. very "standard" from one of the smaller

minority factions under our big tent Party.

[betsuni]

23. STANDARD DEMOCRAT

Good for you, that's better than the old establishment corporatist elite Democrat. Use new words!

[Cha]

26. I think "High Standard" describes Progressive women like Sharice Davids

and Gretchen Whitmer.

[betsuni]

28. Yes!

[lapucelle]

72. My state governor, "standard Democrat" Andrew Cuomo is delivering on the $15 minimum wage

and free state and city university tuition. Nevertheless, he is being primaried by a "progressive" who is endorsed by AOC.

https://www.ny.gov/new-york-states-minimum-wage/new-york-states-minimum-wage

https://www.suny.edu/suny-news/press-releases/10-2017/10-1-17/tuition-free-suny-cuny-numbers.html

[heaven05]

55. same policy Democrats have

and are for. It's been like 50 years or so as time flies. And Wittmer and Davis are not trying to destroy the Democratic Party in favor of some factional socialist democrats agenda disguised as 'progressive' when IT IS NOT. And that are programs which are the same as we have been fighting for. That Wittmer, Davis are fighting for. AOC and Bernie, 'card 'carrying' members, their proclaimed identification, not mine, of the socialist-democrats of America faction of the big tent Democratic Party who are dressing up our Party programs as their factions programs. How lame is that? It's a lie. Take them back to your faction and tell them either join up or shut up. Don't need their divisiveness. Period. Nor yours Propaganda is one thing on your side, the truth is on ours.

http://pleasecutthecrap.com/the-cult-of-bernie/

You have returned here to DU after an absence. Can't hide tells. I will have to find the old handle. It will be found. Have a good one...

[ehrnst]

84. "progressives" can't be "standard Democrats" or vice verca?

Enjoy your time here...

[JCanete]

44. what are you talking about? most progressive platform in what way? Back that up.

[lapucelle]

70. And why is she including the defeat of Prop A?

Are Democratic Socialists trying to take credit for the grass roots efforts of a coalition of Democrats, labor leaders, union workers, and citizen activists who don't identify as socialists?

[JCanete]

47. No. She's fighting back against the bullshit that is trying to bury left-wing progressives and put

all the nails in the coffin. Your version of poor showing is ridiculous, and contributes to the same thing. She's not wrong about the financing. Would you like to go on record and say that that doesn't have a major impact on candidate viability? I think that's a position that is absurd on its face, and I hope you do too. That these guys are winning at all in some places is amazing.

[betsuni]

3. +1

[Sherman A1]

6. I have no clue as to who wrote that comment from CNN

However, I do know that they completely missed what is going on around them and particularly what is their alleged specialty.

This is yet another reason to step away from the Breathless 24/7 Breaking Infotainment of Cable News that purports itself to be journalism, but is too very often little more than talking head opinions shouting at each other repeating the same lines over and over between breaks for commercials for Big Pharma offering us drugs we never knew we needed.

[SkyDancer]

11. "commercials for Big Pharma"

You know, you aren't even kidding about that.
We are so inundated with things that we have become completely desensitized to it.

I will say this, remember the days before the ACA when ads for big pharma on TV didn't have to list the potential side effects?
The ACA sure has changed a lot of things people don't even realize like having menus that now must list calories.

It's just a matter of time until ShitThuglicans declare war on all that as well.

[Wwcd]

18. K & R

True.

[Sherman A1]

25. Take about 30 minutes and watch the sequence of events

On CNN or MSNBC with the sound off and time how many ads there are vs programming and what types of ads and what means they use to keep you tuned in. I can’t watch any of it for more than about 10 minutes. It really is just Infotainment, with more opinion than facts.

I get more news from Facebook than I do cnn.

[SkyDancer]

32. Same here

I have a list on my Twitter that I keep with all the news agencies from around the world.
It's amazing what does NOT get covered on CNN and MSNBC.

Stuff like this - Experts have run a pandemic simulation and the results were not good for humanity

[heaven05]

78. It is also

amazing what IS covered by our MANY different segments of the press in this country. What's priority at this time in our history, as an all-inclusive, NOT factionalized, but UNIFIED political Party is not media, important mind you, but NOT priority unless covering what IS NOT covered by certain factions and their use of warmed over divisive BS of always promised, never delivered 'plans'. Allegedly, for all of us Democrats?

Warmed over speeches declaring the SOS they always spout as something new, which is actually never, from usually a minor faction or leader hoping to make a bigger splash than warranted in our big tent Democratic Party IS NOT NEW. Our Party consists partially of factions as does the RW with their libertarians and tea party attendees. We unify, they die bye bye

[EndGOPPropaganda]

33. Yes. Listen to podcasts instead

Much much better content available as podcasts. Start with Pod Save America, Josh Marshall, Vox, etc

[samnsara]

27. i dont want our party hijacked....we need to be on high alert for things that sound

...'too good'.....

[SkyDancer]

31. "Too good"

Ya let's just not fight and let more people die because we can't have nice things like single payer. Nah.
Not interested.

[Sherman A1]

34. +1

[R B Garr]

37. You just illustrated the dishonest juxtapositions that

plague the framing of single payer and other issues that are blamed on Democrats. Bernie couldn’t get single payer done in Vermont. Does that make him for people dying?? No. So why put that on others.

What is the reason single payer didn’t pass in Vermont? Those are the things that need to be addressed honestly, not implying people don’t care. What was wrong with supporting Hillary’s health care 25 years ago?? Lots of lives could have been saved........

[Power 2 the People]

52. Her plan in 1993 definitely had supporters

[link:|]

[R B Garr]

54. There's more history to it than a picture from 1993. Easily Googleable info. nt

[Power 2 the People]

56. You're right. There was more to the picture

[link:

|]

[R B Garr]

57. There's more to it than an anti-Hillary video, LOL.

You could easily Google it and read what he ultimately said and did.

[Power 2 the People]

58. I took your advice and looked for clarification on Google.

As Led Zeppelin would say....the song remains the same.

[link:https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/clinton-on-sanders-health-care-history/|]

PS..That video was not an anti-Hillary video. It was pointing out that Bernie did indeed support her in her healthcare fight in 1993-94. As usual, Bernie was as unwavering then as he is now by pushing for single payer and not a private sector solution.

You may hate Bernie RB,and that's your right, but you can't change history to distort Bernie's commitment to universal healthcare.

[R B Garr]

59. It's obvious your whole goal was to talk about me personally Power2thePeople.

But this isn't about me personally or one picture from 1993 or some anti=Hillary video. If you don't know the subject matter, just say so. Can I say you must hate Hillary since it's obvious what your focus is...? How does this work...?

That is LOL that you are now distorting the whole history of it and especially not understanding what I was saying about Bernie's focus. You keep gumming up the discussion with jumbles of "single payer" and "universal health care". You can easily Google what he ultimately supported and said about Clinton's plan.

[Power 2 the People]

60. Nice try.Sounds like the gumming up or pretzel twisting isn't being done by me.

I posted a picture showing Bernie supported her in her 1993-94 healthcare fight and you tried to discredit Hillary's own words.

Exhibit A:
[link:|]


"If you don't know the subject just say so." I'll post the factcheck.org link for you again in case you missed it.

[link:https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/clinton-on-sanders-health-care-history/|]

[R B Garr]

61. There's more to it than a picture from 1993. It's obvious you don't know, but it's easily

Googleable.

I just found it myself. One Google, there it was.

edit: the answer is also in your link. Universal health care in the 90's would have saved lives; right??

[Power 2 the People]

62. You're being redundant RB. No use carrying on.

[link:https://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/clinton-on-sanders-health-care-history/|]

[R B Garr]

63. You obviously don't know the subject matter. That is why you are gumming

up Universal Health Care with Single Payer. You obviously didn't even read the content of that link. You obviously didn't realize that the post I was responding to was about people dying over health care. Universal Health Care 25 years ago would have saved lives, but a single payer at that time was a complete nonstarter.

This is the type of misinformation that is being spread about single payer that is meant to divide people, hence my original post in this thread. You attempts to misconstrue are truly not going anywhere.

[Power 2 the People]

64. You obviously don't read your own posts.

I said he supported her in the healthcare fight in 1993-94. Hillary's "thank you" to Bernie backed me up on that,which you refuse to acknowledge. That wasn't good enough for you. Instead you decided to focus on their different interpretations of universal healthcare as proof of his non-support. Bernie wanted single payer and Hillary wanted more of a private sector solution. Single payer was by no means a "non starter."It had support of some very influential Democrats.

In August 1994, near the end of the Clinton administration’s fight for a health care overhaul, Sanders joined a group of liberal Democrats — four others in the House and six in the Senate — in opposing a Senate compromise bill backed by President Clinton that was expected to extend health coverage to 95 percent of Americans. A United Press International story from Aug. 4, 1994, says Sanders attended a rally on the east lawn of the Capitol in which Rep. McDermott urged the president to push for legislation with 100 percent universal coverage. Also attending: Reps. Nancy Pelosi and Xavier Becerra of California, and Rep. Jerrold Nadler of New York.

Neither the House nor Senate versions of the administration plan came to a floor vote.

Word of advice. When you're out of bullets,stop firing.

[R B Garr]

65. You keep trying to pretend that one picture and a "thank you" is the entire history

of it when that is not true. So it is you who is being redundant and now deliberately obtuse. That picture and thank you have been all over the internet for years, and has been trotted out in these type diversions time and time again. You are new here again so maybe you don't realize this has been talked to death.

Universal health care 25 years ago was not single payer, so to say that I am saying that Bernie didn't support universal health care is laughably false on its face and a total diversion to the context which you are obviously not getting, so time to move on. Single payer is a form of universal health care, so if his sole focus was single payer, then obviously he supported universal health care. Time to admit the nuance is beyond the context of this discussion now. This is now going on the 5th post (or so) that the 1993 picture does not tell the whole story which you obviously refuse to acknowledge, so it is you running out of bullets.

edit: in the 90's, single payer was a non-starter, couldn't even talk about universal health care. We see the results, we know the facts, LOL.

[Power 2 the People]

66. Yawwwwwwwwwn

[link:

|]

[R B Garr]

67. LOL, how childish, but not surprising. nt

[oberliner]

71. Two Yutes? What is a yute?

[JCanete]

45. Our party. Try to remember that. There's no such thing as hijacking it. There's voters in

it going a different direction.

[fallout87]

38. Which one of her handlers

Wrote that tweet for her?

Dont get me wrong, I hope she has all the success in the world, but shes definitely out of her element here. Her peers lost.... no thanks on the whole moral victory thing.

[SkyDancer]

50. Which of her "handlers"

I bet you're male aren't you?

AOC is far from being out of her element here. It is you who's out of their element using the term "handler", a misogynistic, caveman throw back term referring to how men have more power than women.

You should look into that.

[fallout87]

79. Wrong on all counts.

I suggest you look further into what a handler is.

[Power 2 the People]

53. I guess the MSM can't do math

Bernie's group Our Revolution has given an endorsement in 140 races in 2018. They're 67 and 73. Nearly 50% backing mostly underdogs. That's incredible for a grass roots organization. If I had a 50% win percentage betting underdogs in Las Vegas I'd be a multi-millionaire.

The MSM will never admit that Our Revolution has won nearly 1 out of every 2 races. That would be the last thing their corporate masters would want publicized.

I love AOC. She doesn't back down or play to the status quo.

[SkyDancer]

68. +1

[disillusioned73]

83. Corporate masters are EVERYWHERE...