How to Avoid the Trap of the Collapsed Narcissist

[milestogo]

This may help to explain what Trump is experiencing right now:

A collapsing or decompensating narcissist is a narcissist that is unable, for whatever reason, to get or have something they want and becomes unhinged because of it. People who are familiar with the horrors of every day living with narcissists understand this phenomenon very well; the terminology may be rather new, but the behavior is old hat.

This happens because the fiction the narcissist has constructed about themselves and their life is very fragile. It is not really a very good defense against the unrelenting self-hatred and self-abuse the narcissist piles on themselves nonstop. When this defensive shield becomes fractured in any way, all of that self-hatred, all of the pathological shame, all of the narcissist's true feelings for themselves come pouring in and they can't take it. They crack. Their facade is gone, the shield comes down and we see the disorder as it really is: terrified, hysterical, needy, psychotic, paranoid, delusional and consumed with need. A burn victim with no protective skin. And it's ugly. It's pitiful. It's sad. It's scary. This is where people get trapped back in to trying again with the narcissist. They feel sorry for this poor, pathetic creature. And who wouldn't? It's a very dramatic situation.

However manipulative narcissists are, the collapsed narcissist is feeling very real feelings. They are not faking it. They have a brutal and abusive superego that spits hate and insults at them 24 hours a day.

"Nobody likes you. You're worthless. You're stupid. You're ugly. You're nothing."

All day long. They get no rest from this.

Because of the abuse and self-hatred narcissists feel from this, they have created a fictional image of themselves that they project onto the world. Their sadistic, abusive superego says to them, "You deserve nothing" so the narcissist defends against this by saying, "I deserve everything!" Their very lives depend on keeping up this fiction, so when it does not play out that way, it validates the self-hatred and the abusive things the superego says. They really do deserve nothing and that's why they can't get what they want. This causes their facade to crack and let all those negative feelings in. This causes a downward spiral where they lash out at and abuse the people around them to get some relief from their poisonous self-hatred. These people then decide they've had enough of being treated badly and abandon the narcissist. This creates a situation where the narcissist has no one to carry the load for them and no one to prop them up. They are forced to bear the weight of their self-hatred and smothering negative feelings along. And they collapse beneath it.

Collapsed narcissists may become suicidal, they may engage in self-mutiliation, such as cutting behaviors or other violence toward themselves. They may refuse to get out of bed or be unable to stop crying. They may become violent. They can even have a psychotic break or hallucinations. This is how great the stress is for the narcissist when their imaginary world does not remain intact. This is how devastating and poisonous their reality is. Collapsed narcissists can be very dangerous, as well. These are people with no empathy who are angry, upset and feel they have nothing to lose. That's a dangerous combination.

As stated earlier, this is the stage where many people are convinced to try again with the narcissist. They believe in the narcissist's hysteria and neediness. And why shouldn't they? It's real. People's internal lie detectors don't go off in these situations because there is no lie to detect. The problem is that even though it's true, this is still another manipulation. The narcissist is still a narcissist. There has been no change, and this behavior should never be taken as an indication that there has been. Yes, it looks dramatic and yes, it seems sincere. It is, in fact, both of these things. But it's temporary.

As soon as the narcissist has what they want again, the collapsed facade will be back in place and you will eventually be face to face with the same old thing again: an ungrateful, disrespectful, abusive, childish tyrant. These are the two faces of the narcissist, and that's all there is. They are as flat, predictable and one dimensional as the characters projected onto a movie screen, which is basically all they are anyway. The narcissist doesn't want the relationship back because they love you. They want the relationship back because they need you to carry their emotions for them, to prop them up when they are low and to be their punching bag when they can't take their internal struggles anymore. There is nothing for you here, there is certainly no love here. They may think that's love, and they may say call it love but it isn't. It's narcissism.

https://pairedlife.com/problems/How-to-Avoid-The-Trap-of-The-Collapsed-Narcissist

[2naSalit]

1. K&R X 100000000000000000000000!!

[SWBTATTReg]

2. You described this disgusting human being (rump) to a 'T'...nt

[forgotmylogin]

22. Wow. It's like attention is their drug.

The addict in withdrawal is experiencing real pain and feelings, and the humane thing most want to do is stop their hurt and give back the poison that entraps them. It's all they need, just a little, so they feel normal again then they can talk rationally and begin their healing. But with the pain taken away, they have no need to heal.

I've experienced narcissist friends who I've walked out on, and they will do anything, will change their ways so long as you don't abandon them. The minute you give in, the leak in the facade is stoppered and they go right back to what they're comfortable with, but you're still stuck with your finger in the hole and unable to leave or the flood starts again.

[kwassa]

3. Illuminating article! Explains Trump right now.

I've read quite a bit about narcissism, but not about this phase of it. Thanks!

[Pluvious]

33. Question is, has this ever happened to someone with command of a nuclear arsenal ?

Kinna scary to think Bolton and Kelly might be all that we have left stopping him...

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

4. That's all very interesting, but what does it have to do with Donald Trump?

[JHan]

5. interesting read. thanks

[CaptainTruth]

6. Great post! Thank you.

It gives a lot of insight into the mind of Trump.

I've shared it on Twitter.

[Wounded Bear]

7. ...and they tend to drag everybody down with them...

Think Hilter in the bunker, declaring that if anybody in Berlin flew white flags he would destroy their blocks.

With some luck and hard work, perhaps whe can prevent Trump from finishing his attempt to destroy the country.

[PatrickforO]

8. So...when Trump, a classical narcissist, begins to collapse,

how will we avoid this 'trap?'

The guy has the nuclear football.

He has the ability through executive order to do all kinds of destructive stuff.

So what, I wonder, will become of us?

[fierywoman]

15. He's got the football but he's alienated the military and intelligence services

against him.

[pangaia]

20. That is one of my hopes.

One of my fears is the fucking egomaniac, cowardly republicans

[fierywoman]

31. Yeah -- but isn't it the military and intelligence groups that control actually

following through with him "pushing the button"? The republicans aren't near it (thank god/dess).

[milestogo]

18. Its like a huge tree that's about to fall.

All you can do is clear the way, and hope there are as few casualties as possible.

Of course, if we had good elected officials, there would be other ways.

[tblue37]

25. Begins to? I think it has already begun. nt

[worstexever]

9. I was married to a narcissist for a few years

Narcissists are usually that way because they had a parent who was one.

It can be hell getting out of a relationship with a narcissist, but so peaceful once it's over.

[murielm99]

10. My mother is a narcissist.

It took me years of therapy to stop acting like her in any way, and to love myself. Sometimes I have to remind myself not to be like her, and not to succumb to her crap. My brother and I support each other. He has had even more therapy than I.

There are still some people I owe apologies.

She is 89 years old, and will outlive all of us.

[milestogo]

11. Both of my siblings are narcissists.

It took me years to see beyond the family dynamics and layer of crap to figure out what was really happening. As a sibling, I can get away, but their spouses and their children are stuck until they figure it out.

[klook]

12. The by-product of abusive parenting, it seems, in Dump's case.

Thanks for posting -- very enlightening.

[Jopin Klobe]

13. How to Avoid the Trap of the Collapsed Narcissist ...

... get rid of all entrenched, so-called "professional" politicians and put We the People in charge ...

... as it was meant to be and should be ...

[jcgoldie]

14. wut?

I'm sorry what does this have to do with this thread? I missed the connection.

[malaise]

16. Please let him be suicidal

That could be the ony decent thing he does in his entire life

[dixiegrrrrl]

29. I think he is too narcissistic to kill himself.

He has too many sycophants who see him as rich and powerful.
I think he can lose the WH and still mange to justify why, as long as he can flee to cronies who don't understand his disease, , maybe to Russia.

What would be interesting is what will happen when his kids get justice served and are not around to butter him up.
For sure Ivanka does that, prolly the other 2 adult boys.

sometimes spouses snap after putting up with the abuse for years, and do something drastic.

[Uncle Joe]

17. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread milestogo.

[Farmer-Rick]

19. So is a narcissist the same as a psychopath?

Like a psychopath, are they capable of mass murder and other horrors when they don't get their way?

[milestogo]

21. No, a psychopath is more extreme.

What they have in common is a total lack of empathy for other people. With a psychopath that can result in extremely antisocial and even criminal behaviors. Narcissists are toxic people, but not usually violent criminals.

Narcissism is much more common and there are varying degrees of it. But Trump really is a classic case and nobody has ever seen a moment of empathy from him for anyone except himself.

And lack of empathy seems to be a hallmark of conservatism. Their basic attitude towards the poor and people without health insurance is "fuck 'em, I got mine".

[forgotmylogin]

23. I think a narcissist is more comparable to sociopath.

I think people often equate sociopathy with murderers - many killers are sociopathic - but there is such a thing as a "benign sociopath". I'd even venture narcissism is a form of sociopathic behavior, only more self-centered and focused on maintaining a facade rather than feeding basic needs.

Sociopaths don't always need go as far as wanting to kill or physically harm people, but they only see others as tools to use when necessary and to abandon when not. They will say anything to get people to cooperate, fabricating individual stories and changing history to suit as they see fit. Sort of how the characters in Catch Me if You Can or Six Degrees of Separation would say anything and impersonate any lifestyle to maintain status quo for themselves.

I suppose that's the danger of unchecked sociopathy - if the individual becomes desperate, eventually they can get into the headspace that if someone needs to be eliminated for what they need in their worldview, then it's not a problem. When it comes down to it, no other person's needs or wants or even life is as important as their own needs.

[dlk]

26. Human Behavior is on a Continuum. At the Top of the Narcissism Scale is Antisocial Personality Diso

[KY_EnviroGuy]

32. That was my reaction.

I've not seen signs for example, that Trump experiences "unrelenting self-hatred and self-abuse" (as the OP describes), although we'll never know what goes on behind his closed doors. I'm inclined to feel he has a complex combo of psychological troubles, to varying degrees, added to his privileged upbringing.

As an amateur study of psychology, it took me until I was nearly 70 to even begin to see much of my profile and I'm still learning.

In agreement with your continuum statement, when I look back at people I've known and myself, I can see for example at least little dabs of psychopathy in almost everyone - perhaps a result of our ancient evolutionary process of survival and self-preservation.

[kurtcagle]

30. Extroversion

I've long had a suspicion that narcissism and psychopathic behavior are manifestations of extreme extroversion, albeit in somewhat different directions. Introversion and extroversion are pretty fundamental and clinical, and are determined by dopamine sensitivity in the brain. The introvert has a high sensitivity to dopamine, and consequently needs a very small amount of stimulus before they get overwhelmed and need to retreat. One side effect of that is that introverts have a fairly rich internal dialog and often tends to be more inclined towards knowledge seeking behaviors.

Extroverts, on the other hand, have a lower sensitivity to dopamine, and consequently they need repeated stimulus to achieve the same satiation point. They tend to be more outgoing, more inclined towards social activity, and successful interaction usually tends to stoke that reaction. In the extreme case, you see psychopathic behavior. They become thrill seekers, most have the regard (or even just the attention) of others, and have trouble developing empathy as a consequence. They eventually develop a persona that is overblown, and the feelings of inadequacy get buried deep. Extroverts tend to respond to the apparent confidence of such people, because they gain energy vicariously by being on the winning team, but this just creates a self-perpetuating cycle of overconfidence, bold but poor decisions, failure, paranoia and collapse, but it's these latter stages that are usually hidden from the adoring crowds.

[smirkymonkey]

24. They are as flat, predictable and one dimensional as the characters projected onto a movie screen.

That is Trump to a T. There is nobody there, just an insatiable black hole of need and desire. He is the most hollow, vacant man to have ever walked the planet.

[yonder]

27. This OP almost makes me feel sorry for the mango dude.

Nah. Never mind. He's pretty much tapped out any humanity I might still have left for him.

[uponit7771]

28. +1, there aren't too many times in history a leader calls for hurting the children of

... people seeking help and has ended up with any grace.

[bucolic_frolic]

34. Trump's Legacy - Last of the Big Time Narcissists

The unraveling for oppressed Americans and the world, may well be to expose narcissists in their entrenched roles everywhere, as people learn to look after their own interests instead of submitting to the lies, shame, and abuse they formerly endured. For every household with a dominant member, for 50s housewives sitting in demure submission while making dinner, for men or women fleeced in divorce court by the drama queens and macho men they married, freedom, or at least understanding, will come.

If we could just get past this ... blowing a gasket comes to mind.

[Nitram]

35. I've watched this entire process unfold. This is a very accurate description.

I was sucked in by a narcissist on whom I had given up on, but then he came to me for help when his world was collapsing. I propped him up, helped get him back on his emotional feet - and then he reverted to form. Like the Aesop's Fable about the man who picks up a nearly frozen snake during his walk home one winter, and when it warms up in his breast pocket it bites him and he dies.